Cheers Jay. Yes I saw the W140 S500 leads and thought they'd be the same. Beru leads came off (I presume they are OEM as the coils are MB?) so I guess they are all OK to go back on.
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Cheers Jay. Yes I saw the W140 S500 leads and thought they'd be the same. Beru leads came off (I presume they are OEM as the coils are MB?) so I guess they are all OK to go back on.
Coolant is disgusting - will be flushed shortly along with brake fluid, gearbox oil and filter and diff oil. Thoughts on flushing the hydraulic fluid? Do people do this? I will top it up and replace the filter inside.
Cheers
Bill
Hello all, not much else happening here, something wrong with the throttle actuator now I think as it's struggling to rev. Anyways parked up and will be with specialist soon for diagnostic.
- 1 x 500E badge bought
- 2 x V8 badges ordered for the wings (MB part off CLK55 / G55)
- 2 x airbox mounting screws and nuts ordered and fitted (missing off the back of mine)
- Oil change again, this time 10w40 Shell Helix
- Washer bottle removed and cleaned (needs a replacement though)
Removed the crank sensor today and it doesn't look too clever, cracks on both sides. Cleaned it up and re-installed, will have to order a new one from MB. Loving ownership so far and look forward to having it running 100% so I can enjoy it more and get other jobs done :thumb:
And here are some photos of the car when in Japan - interestingly it has no boot badges and tinted rear windows.
Long list of things still to do. First things first is to get to the bottom of the engine idle issue and now the new throttle problem. Once that's sorted I will be continue with the restoration.
I will see what the diagnostic brings, I think I will bite the bullet and replace the entire upper engine wiring harness as this is a long term keeper. Anyone have a part number and advise whether this is a job which can be done at home? Weird as the front wires seem very good at the front when I take the insulation off, not checked the rear wires yet...
Cheers,
Bill
- 1 x 500E badge bought
- 2 x V8 badges ordered for the wings (MB part off CLK55 / G55)
- 2 x airbox mounting screws and nuts ordered and fitted (missing off the back of mine)
- Oil change again, this time 10w40 Shell Helix
- Washer bottle removed and cleaned (needs a replacement though)
Removed the crank sensor today and it doesn't look too clever, cracks on both sides. Cleaned it up and re-installed, will have to order a new one from MB. Loving ownership so far and look forward to having it running 100% so I can enjoy it more and get other jobs done :thumb:
And here are some photos of the car when in Japan - interestingly it has no boot badges and tinted rear windows.
Long list of things still to do. First things first is to get to the bottom of the engine idle issue and now the new throttle problem. Once that's sorted I will be continue with the restoration.
I will see what the diagnostic brings, I think I will bite the bullet and replace the entire upper engine wiring harness as this is a long term keeper. Anyone have a part number and advise whether this is a job which can be done at home? Weird as the front wires seem very good at the front when I take the insulation off, not checked the rear wires yet...
Cheers,
Bill
U really need to be sure if your wiring harness has been replaced. Check the date code on it - there are several threads/posts here ways to check - before anything else as this can cause part of your running issues.
Btw, that's a Camshaft sensor (CMP) you removed not a Crankshaft sensor (CKP). Becareful , totally different part and purpose.
Btw, that's a Camshaft sensor (CMP) you removed not a Crankshaft sensor (CKP). Becareful , totally different part and purpose.
Can't find anything or a date tag on the harness anywhere apart from a tag on a small cable near the diagnosis port stating 1990 :O. I will get pics up, can't see anything else though, I have to take more of the wiring shealth off and see whether the wiring has crumbled behind.
Keep getting the two confused but you are right, this is the cam position sensor, the one with the magnet on the end.
Sounds like it's the original harness. Read thru here : http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1784
Pull back wires on cam magnet plugs, CT sensor plug and injectors and all will be revealed.
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497
Cheers Bing - indeed the wiring harness looks original...dated 25 October 1990 
The wires at the front of the engine look ok, misted a little with oil and i've only taken the protective sheath off a small amount as it's quite dark and late
I think the upper wiring harness will need to be replaced as a maintenance item anyway.
Cheers
Bill
The wires at the front of the engine look ok, misted a little with oil and i've only taken the protective sheath off a small amount as it's quite dark and late
I think the upper wiring harness will need to be replaced as a maintenance item anyway.
Cheers
Bill
- indeed the wiring harness looks original...dated 25 October 1990
Look on the other side of that harness label for another date preceded by the letters, "F.D.". This date will be the actual factory date of the harness.
The insulation looks too good for that to be an original harness... I bet the FD date is late 90's or newer.
Right had a look this morning and the other side is dated year 2000. Delphi is the brand. Still not discounting that it needs replacement but I will have to look at all areas of the wiring and check for damage.
I'd imagine this wiring harness would be a non-biodegradable one?
I'd imagine this wiring harness would be a non-biodegradable one?
Ok, as Dave said , insulation looks good . And if the FD is 2000 then it's been replaced at some point to a non biodegradable one, so I wouldn't go running to the dealers and part with 700 smackers.
As suggested before you really need to get your specialist to pull codes to narrow down that idling/rev/ASR issue. Can't really make out what's going on in that video :?
As suggested before you really need to get your specialist to pull codes to narrow down that idling/rev/ASR issue. Can't really make out what's going on in that video :?
Cheers - sorry for the rubbish video. Issues are pointing to the ETA imo...been doing some reading and I'm getting same problems. ETA is located below the MAF.
Specialist taking a look tomorrow and leaving it with him for a while but like to do as much work as I can (because it's fun and this is a project).
Thanks for your input so far dude!
That's great to hear that the harness has been replaced. You can scrap that as being a problem, then. ETA can also be a problem and should be replaced if it's original. You need to check the date code on that as well - on the green label as well as a triangular stamp nearby. You'll need a flashlight.
Much more likely that the ETA is original.
Much more likely that the ETA is original.
Hello all - not much to update here but thanks for all your comments so far. Had a closer look at the harness and as above it is indeed the later one and non-biodegradable. As a result it is in very nice condition throughout with no obvious damage on the face of things.
Looks like the car has a throttle body and potentially MAF fault. The car is with Terry at WG Ltd at the moment for this issue and a full check up (hoping to see what else needs doing in terms of bushes, any leaks etc.). We think the throttle body fix may also solve the rough idle issue as well as the throttle issue, will catch up with Terry in the week for thoughts. The cable to the throttle body is probably original so no doubt that's fried.
Has anyone suffered a rough idle and it turned out to be the throttle body and/or MAF? MAF is reading errors on Star as is the crank sensor.
Off chance, I picked up a throttle body, MAF, ignition module and a few other bits and pieces out of an S500 coupe breaking nearby but will most probably keep them for spares as they're original and have my TB repaired by rewire. By looking at the part numbers online the parts look like they suit the W124 500E. I also got the brake calipers off it. I wasn't sure if they are the same as they later E500 brakes (for 320mm discs) off the SL600 but looked very similar. Does anyone here know?
After deliberating what wheels I should buy I finally purchased a set of Lorinser RSK-5's in 9J front and 10J rears, 17", ET 44. Ultimately, looking at other brands of alloys (AMG/OZ/BBS) would stray the car from the Lorinser theme and I was keen to keep in as "Lorinser" as possible. I really like the look of these alloys and how they look on a W124 so I look a punt on them and bought them!
They come with bolts, spacers, centre caps and a virtually new set of Michelin sport tyres. The front tyres will however have to change as they are 255's, I think I will run a 225 or 235 on the front. I'll keep the spare 255's as another set for the rear (which may come in handy if I decide to fit the ASR defeat in). If I'm feeling flush I'll go for a fat rear tyre size (anyone know what a 500E can handle on the rear with a 10J?), I'd imagine 265, potentially 275. Anyway, here are the photos:
On a facelift Lorinser E500 also in silver:
I was also lucky enough to come across a set of original Hella W124 500E headlights off eBay. I will keep these as a spare set should anything happen to my set.
That's all for now folks - more to come once I collect the car from Terry
Cheers,
Bill
Looks like the car has a throttle body and potentially MAF fault. The car is with Terry at WG Ltd at the moment for this issue and a full check up (hoping to see what else needs doing in terms of bushes, any leaks etc.). We think the throttle body fix may also solve the rough idle issue as well as the throttle issue, will catch up with Terry in the week for thoughts. The cable to the throttle body is probably original so no doubt that's fried.
Has anyone suffered a rough idle and it turned out to be the throttle body and/or MAF? MAF is reading errors on Star as is the crank sensor.
Off chance, I picked up a throttle body, MAF, ignition module and a few other bits and pieces out of an S500 coupe breaking nearby but will most probably keep them for spares as they're original and have my TB repaired by rewire. By looking at the part numbers online the parts look like they suit the W124 500E. I also got the brake calipers off it. I wasn't sure if they are the same as they later E500 brakes (for 320mm discs) off the SL600 but looked very similar. Does anyone here know?
After deliberating what wheels I should buy I finally purchased a set of Lorinser RSK-5's in 9J front and 10J rears, 17", ET 44. Ultimately, looking at other brands of alloys (AMG/OZ/BBS) would stray the car from the Lorinser theme and I was keen to keep in as "Lorinser" as possible. I really like the look of these alloys and how they look on a W124 so I look a punt on them and bought them!
They come with bolts, spacers, centre caps and a virtually new set of Michelin sport tyres. The front tyres will however have to change as they are 255's, I think I will run a 225 or 235 on the front. I'll keep the spare 255's as another set for the rear (which may come in handy if I decide to fit the ASR defeat in). If I'm feeling flush I'll go for a fat rear tyre size (anyone know what a 500E can handle on the rear with a 10J?), I'd imagine 265, potentially 275. Anyway, here are the photos:
On a facelift Lorinser E500 also in silver:
I was also lucky enough to come across a set of original Hella W124 500E headlights off eBay. I will keep these as a spare set should anything happen to my set.
That's all for now folks - more to come once I collect the car from Terry
Cheers,
Bill
Good news: The EZL and MAF you picked up will fit your car, and should be good for spares.
Bad news: The S500 ETA is the late style and will not work on your 1992 500E, the connectors are different. And, the spare ETA is dated 1993 and almost certainly defective (or will be soon). Rubbing salt in the wound, S500 (W140) brake calipers will not fit the 500E (W124).
ETA is more likely the cause of your running issues, MAF is a much less common failure. Nice score on the spare lenses, btw!
Bad news: The S500 ETA is the late style and will not work on your 1992 500E, the connectors are different. And, the spare ETA is dated 1993 and almost certainly defective (or will be soon). Rubbing salt in the wound, S500 (W140) brake calipers will not fit the 500E (W124).
ETA is more likely the cause of your running issues, MAF is a much less common failure. Nice score on the spare lenses, btw!
Oooo. Good catch! You are correct, Bing. I sense his PM inbox about to be swamped...Those headlamp lens are for right hand traffic i.e mainland Europe/USA, based on the part numbers on the box , not for us in UK that drive on the wrong side of the road.
Those headlamp lens are for right hand traffic i.e mainland Europe/USA, based on the part numbers on the box , not for us in UK that drive on the wrong side of the road.
Yes mate I bought them in Germany. Sticker for them at MOT time will sort that. Not fussed about the functionality w124 lights are like dim candles anyway
Thanks for the udpate, Bill! MAF failures are relatively rare compared to ETA failures, but they have been known to go bad. A good tech with a digital scanner could normally diagnose this from the live data, btw. Glad to hear it's fixed though!
Cheers but we're no closer to sorting out the fuelling and rough idle. My specialist too said that a MAF failure is rare compared with an ETA failure. He did find MAF errors on STAR which arised suspicion.
Any other ideas guys? What about lambda/oxygen sensors? Known to go wrong? Surely would be kicking up errors on STAR too?
Any other ideas guys? What about lambda/oxygen sensors? Known to go wrong? Surely would be kicking up errors on STAR too?
+1 on the O2 Sensor. It could be sending faulty signals resulting in a richer than desired A/F mixture which could lead to stumbling on idle & worse maladies over time uncorrected.
Are the new spark plugs Bosch F8DC4?
Also, consider a new fuel filler cap. Inexpensive item & eliminates a good proportion of smelly fuel anomalies.
Are the new spark plugs Bosch F8DC4?
Also, consider a new fuel filler cap. Inexpensive item & eliminates a good proportion of smelly fuel anomalies.
One symptom with a bad O2 would be LH adaptation values near the limit. Again, a tech with a scanner should be able to figure this out. If the O2 is replaced, the adaptation should be reset to get immediate results, otherwise you'll have to drive the car for a few hundred miles or so.
Can you post a video of the tach during the "rough idle"? How old are the engine mounts? Shot engine mounts will make you feel as if the idle is rough...
Can you post a video of the tach during the "rough idle"? How old are the engine mounts? Shot engine mounts will make you feel as if the idle is rough...
Resetting the LH adaptation would be preferred, but is not required. You can reset with a digital scanner (SDS, etc) or with a blink-code reader by "clearing" the single blink. You cannot confirm it worked without a scanner though. Or just drive the car through a couple tanks of fuel and it will adjust itself over time. Search the forum for additional discussion on this, it's been covered before in more detail...
Dave - cheers, so are you saying if the sensor IS bad then it would take quite some driving to notice any improvement? I don't think the issue is engine mounts as it actually feels like it is misfiring at idle. There is also a hot starting problem, the fuelling for the car is all wrong and confirmed by the diagnosis tool he has (I presume from the adaptation values of fuel and air?). When warm, the car is difficult to crank and while cranking it produces a strong smell of fuel. Starts perfectly when cold.
Only thing to help fuelling that I can think of is o2 sensor which can regular the fuel and air mixture (?). Where is the sensor physically located in the engine bay?
Only thing to help fuelling that I can think of is o2 sensor which can regular the fuel and air mixture (?). Where is the sensor physically located in the engine bay?
It would probably take multiple cold starts / full warmups for the adaptation to adjust by itself. I don't know exactly how long but 1-2 full tanks of fuel over a few weeks should do it.
Have you replaced the FPR yet? If not, that is another item that needs to be high on the list, and it's cheap too. There should not be a strong fuel smell, you need to locate that ASAP. More than one 500E has burned to the ground from a fuel leak.
Have you replaced the FPR yet? If not, that is another item that needs to be high on the list, and it's cheap too. There should not be a strong fuel smell, you need to locate that ASAP. More than one 500E has burned to the ground from a fuel leak.
It would probably take multiple cold starts / full warmups for the adaptation to adjust by itself. I don't know exactly how long but 1-2 full tanks of fuel over a few weeks should do it.
Have you replaced the FPR yet? If not, that is another item that needs to be high on the list, and it's cheap too. There should not be a strong fuel smell, you need to locate that ASAP. More than one 500E has burned to the ground from a fuel leak.
There is no actual leak or any residue when the car is parked, only a fuel smell when/after cranking which leads us to believe the fuel/air mixture is not right (not enough air)...hence the o2 sensor thoughts...
FPR I have bought (Bosch) and due to put in but the fuel rail has been pressure tested and been given the a-OK. I will replace regardless but the part does not appear to be a source of the problem.
It would probably take multiple cold starts / full warmups for the adaptation to adjust by itself. I don't know exactly how long but 1-2 full tanks of fuel over a few weeks should do it.
Have you replaced the FPR yet? If not, that is another item that needs to be high on the list, and it's cheap too. There should not be a strong fuel smell, you need to locate that ASAP. More than one 500E has burned to the ground from a fuel leak.
+1 on Fuel Pressure Regulator. I was just about to mention it for your symptoms when I read Dave's post mentioning the same. The warm start trouble has been covered elsewhere I think, and not to say it's exhaustive, but fuel pressure regulator and neutral safety switch are two quickies I would recommend checking off.
maw
Check vacuum lines or get a smoke test done. With the FPR pull off vacuum line and if it smooths out change it (which you already bought anyway)
CKP, NSS could be suspect too but codes should pop up. As maw said a lot of this stuff has been covered here and solutions have varied a bit with the same issue.
See if you can post fault codes here, Bill. Guys will help solve your issues, or narrow things down the very least, if you can provide what's actually coming up
CKP, NSS could be suspect too but codes should pop up. As maw said a lot of this stuff has been covered here and solutions have varied a bit with the same issue.
See if you can post fault codes here, Bill. Guys will help solve your issues, or narrow things down the very least, if you can provide what's actually coming up
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Right guys - thanks all for input and thanks to the specialist for checking everything - it looks like he has found the issue! Injector on cylinder 8 is bad (totally gone) after running a series of tests. All the breather hoses and fittings also brittle surrounding this entire area so new injector and new hoses ordered from MB.
Also booked in for gearbox oil and filter change, coolant change and diff oil change with him so the car will probably be back to me next Saturday. I would like to replace all 8 injectors but at £169 inc VAT each from MB I think that'll have to wait - I don't think it's a common fault though? He will also replace the FPR I supplied and the two leads to the coil. Look forward to having the old beasty back.
My Lorinser alloys have arrived at home, anyone know what tyres would suit the front? Rears are 255/45/17.
Also booked in for gearbox oil and filter change, coolant change and diff oil change with him so the car will probably be back to me next Saturday. I would like to replace all 8 injectors but at £169 inc VAT each from MB I think that'll have to wait - I don't think it's a common fault though? He will also replace the FPR I supplied and the two leads to the coil. Look forward to having the old beasty back.
My Lorinser alloys have arrived at home, anyone know what tyres would suit the front? Rears are 255/45/17.
Wow, that is quite unusual. Especially if the injector works ok above idle RPM (i.e. if the car drives ok, but only misfires at idle). The SDS allows disabling a single injector at a time for testing, btw.
Injectors are VERY rare failures. I mean almost never. I'd put in a good used one if you really do have one faulty. If another one failed afterwards, then I'd consider replacing the entire set in case a PO used fuel that somehow caused problems. Even then I'd get a set of used injectors, they're cheap here at salvage yards or eBay. Not much demand for 'em.
Since your wheels are 9" front and 10" rear, your existing tires are too small for the rear... should be 275's on the 10", either 245 or 255 up front on the 9". Be careful, use a tire size calculator and make sure the diameters are within ~1% front to rear, or it will cause problems with ABS/ASR/cruise.
Injectors are VERY rare failures. I mean almost never. I'd put in a good used one if you really do have one faulty. If another one failed afterwards, then I'd consider replacing the entire set in case a PO used fuel that somehow caused problems. Even then I'd get a set of used injectors, they're cheap here at salvage yards or eBay. Not much demand for 'em.
Since your wheels are 9" front and 10" rear, your existing tires are too small for the rear... should be 275's on the 10", either 245 or 255 up front on the 9". Be careful, use a tire size calculator and make sure the diameters are within ~1% front to rear, or it will cause problems with ABS/ASR/cruise.
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I have never seen a defective fuel injector on a Mercedes-Benz LH motor, ever. I have seen plenty of defective fuel pressure regulators dripping fuel into cylinder number eight, thereby causing people to think the fuel injector was defective. A leaking FPR diaphragm will also cause some of the other symptoms that are described in your posts.
Klink, does the FPR let fuel push out through the vac hose, which happens to end up piddling fuel into the #8 intake runner? That makes a whole lotta sense to me. And in this particular case, I bet the injector itself may be fine.I have never seen a defective fuel injector on a Mercedes-Benz LH motor, ever. I have seen plenty of defective fuel pressure regulators dripping fuel into cylinder number eight, thereby causing people to think the fuel injector was defective. A leaking FPR diaphragm will also cause some of the other symptoms that are described in your posts.
Klink, does the FPR let fuel push out through the vac hose, which happens to end up piddling fuel into the #8 intake runner? That makes a whole lotta sense to me. And in this particular case, I bet the injector itself may be fine.
Yep, that's the usual failure mode. They drip fuel into number eight, fouling number eight, and leaning out the adaptation values. You wind up with number eight wildly rich, and every other cylinder too lean...
Oh dear ! +100 never heard of this. Never mind MB but how often do you hear injectors fail in other motors ? Hope I'm wrong , but sorry to say I sense a misdiagnose here, so I would do as Dave suggests and find a used/refurb injector. Either way it won't be easy to make suggestions with your tech now since he's well stuck in there , but again I hope I'm wrong here too . Good luck !
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I think they are an infrequent enough failure that I wouldn't necessarily worry about doing it as PM, but if you want to, I'd say 10 years or hundred K, and even that's probably overkill.Then again, with all the booze the feds are making the oil companies put in gasoline, maybe this and other similar failures will become more common, maybe not...
Indeed, I have seen a lot more of those, but still for what that's worth, IMO CIS injectors are chronically, hopelessly, overwhelmingly overdiagnosed. It's just that usually in the process of replacing the CIS injectors, all of the crap that was actually wrong got addressed too. I know they always look bad on a hand pump injector tester. That's because they do not literately pulse the fuel pressure to them the way an actual fuel distributor does.
Actually, in my experience, most CIS cars actually run worse after an injector replacement.
Yes, I know I am overdue for my CIS idle quality rant. I haven't forgotten about you, Denis. I have simply been stupid busy, and you being in Grenoble, I'm sure your CIS car is still locked away for the winter...
Klink,
CIS-E injectors are designed for about an 80K service life. Mine went about 200,000 miles, LOL. And I had a bad case of leakdown, and then nasty starting.
They may get over-diagnosed for issues, but my issues sure cleared up with their replacement. I should have replaced them when I did the M117 top-end rebuild, but it was literally the only part that I DIDN'T replace! I even replaced the o-rings and injector holders. I was a TOTAL lamer with that one, fer sure.
Here's my saga: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1926
Cheers,
Gerry
CIS-E injectors are designed for about an 80K service life. Mine went about 200,000 miles, LOL. And I had a bad case of leakdown, and then nasty starting.
They may get over-diagnosed for issues, but my issues sure cleared up with their replacement. I should have replaced them when I did the M117 top-end rebuild, but it was literally the only part that I DIDN'T replace! I even replaced the o-rings and injector holders. I was a TOTAL lamer with that one, fer sure.
Here's my saga: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1926
Cheers,
Gerry
Klink,
CIS-E injectors are designed for about an 80K service life. Mine went about 200,000 miles, LOL. And I had a bad case of leakdown, and then nasty starting.
They may get over-diagnosed for issues, but my issues sure cleared up with their replacement. I should have replaced them when I did the M117 top-end rebuild, but it was literally the only part that I DIDN'T replace! I even replaced the o-rings and injector holders. I was a TOTAL lamer with that one, fer sure.
Here's my saga: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1926
Cheers,
Gerry
Oh indeed, they do happen, and a leak down condition like you were describing usually produces pretty dramatic symptoms. It's just that over the years I have seen them replaced for no end of refinement issues, like idle quality, usually to no improvement, and often to a worsening of whatever the refinement issue was.
They are like back surgery. Everybody thinks they need them, and everybody is told they need them, but almost nobody experiences that dramatic improvement that the replacement is reputed to bring, unless their condition was just dramatically bad to begin with.
Which reminds me, that ranks them together with cartoon size wheels and tires. Almost always done, but not one man in a thousand has an ego allowing him to admit, even if only to himself, "crap, that was a mistake"...
