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500Eboard Management
Weird idle /shifting through gears after replacing all the PVC hoses?
- Thread starter Alex89
- Start date
Ok I was wondering what was back there other than wires, I guess nothing. I am trying to find ignition wires but I cant find OEM ones, I see aftermarket ones. What is the part number?
I think tach works bc it starts at 1500, goes down to 1000 after very short time and when I put it in D or R it goes back down to about 650 which should be normal...After a longer drive when the car warms up, when I shift to D or R (having to go through N) car revs to 1500 (just bc I shifted to N) before it brings it down to normal 650 but with some noticeable shaking.
I checked my distributor caps and wires earlier today and one was Bremi (I think distributor caps) and another Bosch(Wires). I will have to double check. Previous owner changed distributors and rotors (less than 2 years ago) but I dont think he did wires.
I think tach works bc it starts at 1500, goes down to 1000 after very short time and when I put it in D or R it goes back down to about 650 which should be normal...After a longer drive when the car warms up, when I shift to D or R (having to go through N) car revs to 1500 (just bc I shifted to N) before it brings it down to normal 650 but with some noticeable shaking.
I checked my distributor caps and wires earlier today and one was Bremi (I think distributor caps) and another Bosch(Wires). I will have to double check. Previous owner changed distributors and rotors (less than 2 years ago) but I dont think he did wires.
Thanks for the part#, looks like I will have to order some...Or some aftermarket ones. Any good aftermarket ones, if I dont have to spend $400 I would rather not 
...
These are the 2 distributors I checked today...Are they bad, they are less than 2 years old but not sure if the bad wires messed it up?
...These are the 2 distributors I checked today...Are they bad, they are less than 2 years old but not sure if the bad wires messed it up?
What I find odd is that the weird idle started after replacing breather hoses.
Have you checked the hose that hooks up to the side bottom of the eta?
Have you checked the hose that hooks up to the side bottom of the eta?
Your caps look ok, and it will be hard to condemn them until you replace the defective wires.Thanks for the part#, looks like I will have to order some...Or some aftermarket ones. Any good aftermarket ones, if I dont have to spend $400 I would rather not
See the last few posts on this thread for wire info. The Beru kit is what I'd buy, and may still be available from some vendors:
https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258
I wouldn't buy any of the other brands shown at PartsGeek, but the blue NGK set looks interesting - never seen those before.
Beru should be fine. The lengths may differ slightly from stock, and the wires are not labled with cylinder numbers, so it usually takes some trial & error to get the proper wires to each cylinder. Might take an hour or two. No Zip-ties should be required, the wire routing is stamped in the bottom of the X-shaped tray. Excess length should be looped at either end so that it will not interfere with the plastic covers fully seating. See thread linked below; post 38, 48, and 64:
https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1313
Whaaa? Which vendor said 003-159-68-03 are not available? I just bought some a few weeks ago. The OE Bosch 003-159-67-03 are NLA from Mercedes, those #67 Bosch plugs were superceded to #68 which are made by Beru. You can still get aftermarket Bosch F8DC4 though. Just avoid the FR8DC resistor types.
I am curious what brand of wires are currently installed, and if they are the early type (plug boot with rubber upper half and 90° wire ) or late (plug boot with plastic upper half, usually orange color). Check the brand name on the plug boots, wire, and cap boots. There may be a mix of brands.
Ok hopefully I wont have any problems figuring out wiring, can I really mess it up if, for example, I put wire from plug 1 to plug 2? I will go ahead and order it those Beru wires you sent (https://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1992/mercedes/500e/engine_electrical/spark_plug_wire_set.html) .
mboemparts sent me an email they they are unavailable. So I got aftermarket Bosch F8DC4.
My current wires are "Bremi 13222", it says on distributor cap boots. Distributor caps are Bosch. Pretty interested in seeing what spark plugs I have in there.
mboemparts sent me an email they they are unavailable. So I got aftermarket Bosch F8DC4.
My current wires are "Bremi 13222", it says on distributor cap boots. Distributor caps are Bosch. Pretty interested in seeing what spark plugs I have in there.
Don't get the wires mixed up, but if you do, most likely you'll get a quite unpleasant misfire and very rough running. If the existing wires are routed properly you can change 1 at a time and select the closest length; but since the current wires are already aftermarket, it's hard to say if the last mechanic did it right or not.
BS. The plugs are available. If you only ordered plugs and nothing else (or, a few other small/cheap parts) they were probably blowing you off as they would lose money shipping that order free. Especially if they didn't have any in stock, which is unlikely, but possible. EDIT: MBoemparts shipped the plugs after all, despite the email stating otherwise - see post #116 below.
Bremi boots does not necessarily mean a Bremi-branded wire set. Check the plug boots too, and the wires themselves. I'm not a big fan of Bremi as they are not OEM for any Mercedes ignition components.
I noticed in your pictures that the plastic separator/holders for the plug wires seem to have been replaced with a zip-tie at one place, and, that the wires may be chafing against sharp metal (green highlights).
What do these areas look like (more pictures) after removing all the plastic covers in the way?
Thanks
What do these areas look like (more pictures) after removing all the plastic covers in the way?
Thanks
Attachments
Yea I will go one by one and hope for the best ... Thx.
You might be right since I only ordered spark plugs and I can see how they can say "screw him" since my last order was just ETA screws that had to come all the way from Germany.
Yea I will check the plug boots too and report back. Its dark now. Next weekend(at the latest) I will change ETA, wires and spark plugs and see what happens. It would be amazing if stupid idle gets fixed haha.
Jlaa I will take some pics tomorrow and I need to do some research to see how it should look so I can re wire them right.
... Thx.You might be right since I only ordered spark plugs and I can see how they can say "screw him" since my last order was just ETA screws that had to come all the way from Germany.
Yea I will check the plug boots too and report back. Its dark now. Next weekend(at the latest) I will change ETA, wires and spark plugs and see what happens. It would be amazing if stupid idle gets fixed haha.
Jlaa I will take some pics tomorrow and I need to do some research to see how it should look so I can re wire them right.
I replaced the spark plugs today and when I pulled the old ones out they looked pretty bad plus they were the wrong ones, Bosch FR8DC resistor ones!
Also, GSXR you were right, wires were Karlyn at the spark plug boot side and Bremi at the distributor side, how come? How does that happen?
Now waiting on wires and ETA to see what happens, I am secretly hoping that my idle will get fixed with new wires and fresh, correct, spark plugs.
I noticed that some spark plug wires go to the same side distributor cap and some dont, is that normal?
Dirty spark plugs...
Karlyn...
Area where wires were causing a spark. Went for a short drive and car would hesitate under acceleration, just confirms the wires are bad...
Also, GSXR you were right, wires were Karlyn at the spark plug boot side and Bremi at the distributor side, how come? How does that happen?
Now waiting on wires and ETA to see what happens, I am secretly hoping that my idle will get fixed with new wires and fresh, correct, spark plugs
. I noticed that some spark plug wires go to the same side distributor cap and some dont, is that normal?
Dirty spark plugs...
Karlyn...
Area where wires were causing a spark. Went for a short drive and car would hesitate under acceleration, just confirms the wires are bad...
I've seen this too. From what I can tell, there are only a couple of mfr's that produce the boots and wires; some third parties then mix & match brands when building wire sets. I don't like the Bremi as they don't use the crimped wire ends with threaded fittings. From memory, I believe the Karlyn boots also cannot have the wires unscrewed like Bosch or Beru.
If your idle is fixed, that would be fabulous, but I have a bad feeling there will be no change in idle RPM.Now waiting on wires and ETA to see what happens, I am secretly hoping that my idle will get fixed with new wires and fresh, correct, spark plugs
Yep, that is normal. IIRC each cap sends 2 wires to one bank, and 2 wires to the other. Make sure to reference the thread mentioned in post #109 above, you should be able to get your wires routed as neatly as shown in the photos with the red wires. Note that Glen's engine shows the late style plug boots, and my photos sh ow the early style. The routing is slightly different for each under the plastic cover over the plugs. The routing is identical in the X-tray and at the caps.
Oh I see, I didnt know you can separate it and mix it that easily. I already got my wires today (ordered 2 days ago).
I know its a long shot of it fixing my idle issue but I was jut dreaming a little. That thread is great, hopefully I will make my wires look like that too.
Something strange happened. After mboemparts told me spark plugs 003 159 68 03 are unavailable, I just got them in the mail today...Not sure how does that happen. My main dilemma now is if I should put those in or keep the aftermarket ones, is there really a big difference. I like the ones I got today,they have nice MB logo and from Germany. Other ones are from Russia.
I know its a long shot of it fixing my idle issue but I was jut dreaming a little. That thread is great, hopefully I will make my wires look like that too.
Something strange happened. After mboemparts told me spark plugs 003 159 68 03 are unavailable, I just got them in the mail today...Not sure how does that happen. My main dilemma now is if I should put those in or keep the aftermarket ones, is there really a big difference. I like the ones I got today,they have nice MB logo and from Germany. Other ones are from Russia.
Oh WEIRD! I wonder what happened. There shouldn't be a big difference, I'd leave the Bosch Russia plugs in there for now. Keep the new OE Beru for your next plug change in 25-30kmi.
Tonight I got to work on changing the wires for a little bit...The post you sent was very useful.
Just to confirm,its a silly question but... as long as cylinder #/ spark plug wire goes to corresponding distributor cap #/ connection I will be fine, It doesnt matter which wire itself is as long as it fits?
After my 5th wire the lengths are not matching that closely anymore. But I will continue tomorrow. Also, the furthest right coil wire was chopped in 3 places since it was going under the distributor plastic cover. That's probably the one shorting out.
Just to confirm,its a silly question but... as long as cylinder #/ spark plug wire goes to corresponding distributor cap #/ connection I will be fine, It doesnt matter which wire itself is as long as it fits?
After my 5th wire the lengths are not matching that closely anymore. But I will continue tomorrow. Also, the furthest right coil wire was chopped in 3 places since it was going under the distributor plastic cover. That's probably the one shorting out.
Correct.
It might get worse when you get to the 7th and 8th wires. You may even need to go back and swap out some you had already installed. BTW, can you post a photo of the wire set you got? Maybe the package with 1 loose wire if they're not all installed yet?
That reminds me - where the 2 coil wires exit the plastic cover above the power steering pulley, make sure they are tied up and routed such that it's impossible for them to move out of position, and rub against the pulley edge. The plastic housings which bolt to the head, and the covers which go over the top, both often have broken tabs so things won't snap into place properly. If they are busted, you can still buy new ones from MB. Last I checked it was ~$75 for all four of them. Since your car is low miles, maybe the originals are still serviceable.
Wire length worked out pretty well. It looks sooo much better now but not as neat as the ones in your thread, but still no need for zip ties.
Here are the pictures of some wires before I put them on.
Unfortunately wires did not work out very well. Car is hesitating slightly and one popped off when I cranked the car...Connection seems to be pretty weak.
I put the old coil wires in just to test it out and it was even worse, car was barely running. So I think I will need different ones. I am even thinking about OEM Mercedes ones just to be sure.
All this is not that big of a deal because I found what the problem of my high idle was. Its almost embarrassing to say but it was a stupid ETA LINKAGE! You guys did tell me multiple times and I always checked and it looked good at the ETA side. Today I went to turn and adjust it and with barely any pressure it popped and got lose, the whole linkage arm came off. So my linkage was barely attached on the back side and when I went to turn the ETA side, it just popped loose. It was a pain snapping it back in place since there isn't too much room in the back where the firewall is. Tall magnet and 2 long screwdrivers did it. It was amazing relief when I saw the idle so low, it was around 600-650. I was so happy. (Not sure why picture is upside down)
Before I fixed the linkage, car wouldn't react until I depress the throttle half an inch or so, it was obviously delayed and I thought that's how it suppose to be but it was always suspicious. Now car reacts as soon as I touch the throttle.
I am so ready to be done with this issue and enjoy the car again. Will post what happens after I change the wires again, and hopefully its not anything else. Car kind of shakes and stutters now when rpms go down and sometimes when its idling but not very noticeably.
Here are the pictures of some wires before I put them on.
Unfortunately wires did not work out very well. Car is hesitating slightly and one popped off when I cranked the car...Connection seems to be pretty weak.
I put the old coil wires in just to test it out and it was even worse, car was barely running. So I think I will need different ones. I am even thinking about OEM Mercedes ones just to be sure.
All this is not that big of a deal because I found what the problem of my high idle was. Its almost embarrassing to say but it was a stupid ETA LINKAGE! You guys did tell me multiple times and I always checked and it looked good at the ETA side. Today I went to turn and adjust it and with barely any pressure it popped and got lose, the whole linkage arm came off. So my linkage was barely attached on the back side and when I went to turn the ETA side, it just popped loose. It was a pain snapping it back in place since there isn't too much room in the back where the firewall is. Tall magnet and 2 long screwdrivers did it. It was amazing relief when I saw the idle so low, it was around 600-650. I was so happy. (Not sure why picture is upside down)
Before I fixed the linkage, car wouldn't react until I depress the throttle half an inch or so, it was obviously delayed and I thought that's how it suppose to be but it was always suspicious. Now car reacts as soon as I touch the throttle.
I am so ready to be done with this issue and enjoy the car again. Will post what happens after I change the wires again, and hopefully its not anything else. Car kind of shakes and stutters now when rpms go down and sometimes when its idling but not very noticeably.
Congrats! I was following this thinking, "its got to be something to do with the linkages he removed." I say that because I recall when I did mine, I did have to think about how it all went back together. Luckily I was taking pictures as I went along so could refer back to them.
As to the wires, I always use magnecor leads.
I am thoroughly pleased with them, have them on every one of my cars.
For the M119 you cannot really use the oversize options. You have to go with the thinnest black wire they offer. The blue and red just dont fit in the channels.
Im sure you can get them easily in the states.
https://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/main.htm
The model number I ordered was 8738.
As to the wires, I always use magnecor leads.
I am thoroughly pleased with them, have them on every one of my cars.
For the M119 you cannot really use the oversize options. You have to go with the thinnest black wire they offer. The blue and red just dont fit in the channels.
Im sure you can get them easily in the states.
https://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/main.htm
The model number I ordered was 8738.
Thx, I hope I fix it all soon and this forum was amazing help as always, as well as gsxr's constant company and advice!
I took some pictures too in the beginning but not of the linkage connection in the back since you cant see it unless you move the throttle cable to open the butterfly on ETA (as if you were pushing the gas pedal), that's the only way you can see it. Once I moved it I zip tied it so it stays accessible in the back.
It would look nice to put the red wires on, it would spice it up a little. I will think about it, thx for the suggestion!
But just to "summarize" it so far...My surging idle was because of a bad ETA. Once I got a good ETA, surge stopped but the idle was high because my ETA linkage wasnt connected correctly on the back side, where the firewall is.
Now I have a weird stutter when idling and if I rev the engine and RPMS start going down it kind of chokes/stutters but it stops and goes back to barely noticeable stutter at idle. I think that's the wires or maybe car needs to adjust or re learn or something,...I might try to take it for a short drive around the block before I change the wires again.
I took some pictures too in the beginning but not of the linkage connection in the back since you cant see it unless you move the throttle cable to open the butterfly on ETA (as if you were pushing the gas pedal), that's the only way you can see it. Once I moved it I zip tied it so it stays accessible in the back.
It would look nice to put the red wires on, it would spice it up a little. I will think about it, thx for the suggestion!
But just to "summarize" it so far...My surging idle was because of a bad ETA. Once I got a good ETA, surge stopped but the idle was high because my ETA linkage wasnt connected correctly on the back side, where the firewall is.
Now I have a weird stutter when idling and if I rev the engine and RPMS start going down it kind of chokes/stutters but it stops and goes back to barely noticeable stutter at idle. I think that's the wires or maybe car needs to adjust or re learn or something,...I might try to take it for a short drive around the block before I change the wires again.
That is BIZARRE. I've never seen Beru boots with clip-on connections!! Must be a cost-reduction thing; the older Beru sets all had threaded connections as seen in the other thread.
The wires should never "pop off" when you crank or start the engine, if this happened, they are under too much tension. The coil wired need enough slack to move around as the engine twists under load.The red wires for sale in the other thread require you to buy all the boots separately, which is not a big deal, just expensive.
Glad you got that sorted. You tried multiple ETA's, correct? Did you only have 1 defective, or more than 1?
That may be related to the wires, or it could be something different... you'll need to get the wires sorted first. I think you could reconnect the new Beru wires, reduce the slack at the coil boots, and make sure everything is nice & snug... then chase down the choking problem. A different set of new wires isn't likely to fix this.
Yea I was surprised at the connections also. But today I snugged all the connections and started the car and did the whole reset procedure for ETA, just in case, and car was great. I think it was stuttering yesterday since I didnt have the IAT sensor hooked. I drove the car for almost an hour today and it ran perfect. I am so happy but also I keep always thinking that the coil wire will pop off at any time and leave me stranded. So I dont know if I should replace them or keep current ones.
Yes I had one bad ETA and now I have a spare working one too. I might sell it or just keep it in case "new" one goes bad. I also keep getting bad brake lamps switch code so I replaced it today also and the code is gone and brakes are good. They were acting up a little when I am barely moving or slightly moving when parking. They felt weird but not anymore. So car should be great now. Lets see what happens.
Thx again everybody for all the help! I am sure I will be back here since I want to change lower harness, and few other things in the future too haha. There isnt too much info on the lower harness replacement so I will try to take detailed pics if I ever decide to do it myself.
Yes I had one bad ETA and now I have a spare working one too. I might sell it or just keep it in case "new" one goes bad. I also keep getting bad brake lamps switch code so I replaced it today also and the code is gone and brakes are good. They were acting up a little when I am barely moving or slightly moving when parking. They felt weird but not anymore. So car should be great now. Lets see what happens.
Thx again everybody for all the help! I am sure I will be back here since I want to change lower harness, and few other things in the future too haha. There isnt too much info on the lower harness replacement so I will try to take detailed pics if I ever decide to do it myself.