You mean this spec sheet, they hide it but it's there. HTHS 3.8
TBN 11.8 and VI 185. Not bad to me
Last edited:
-
Hi Guest !
Welcome to the 500Eboard forum.
Since its founding in late 2008, 500Eboard has become the leading resource on the Internet for all things related to the Mercedes-Benz 500E and E500. In recent years, we have also expanded to include the 400E and E420 models, which are directly related to the 500E/E500.
We invite you to browse and take advantage of the information and resources here on the site. If you find helpful information, please register for full membership, and you'll find even more resources available. Feel free to ask questions, and make liberal use of the "Search" function to find answers.
We hope you will become an active contributor to the community!
Sincerely,
500Eboard Management
Engine oil recommendations
- Thread starter 550Maranello
- Start date
You mean this spec sheet, they hide it but it's there. HTHS 3.8
TBN 11.8 and VI 185. Not bad to me
Thank you texas, I like to buy in bulk, I just used my last batch of Mobil 1
So I'm ready for a few cases of Motul
Yup, that isn't bad. I still don't trust Mobil-1 as too many of their products are Group III base stocks, no matter what the specs say. Their 15W-50 looks good on paper with 160 VI and 4.5 HTHS but it's a Group III base that shears down rapidly and consumption skyrockets after ~5kmi. Same with their new 5W-40 CJ-4 formula (previous CI-4 was Group IV/V).
Some Mobil spec sheets do not show HTHS. Looks like most of the Mobil-1 lineup shows it now, but their Delvac-1 products do not:
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAXXENCVLMOMobil_Delvac_1_ESP_5W-40.aspx
Some Mobil spec sheets do not show HTHS. Looks like most of the Mobil-1 lineup shows it now, but their Delvac-1 products do not:
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAXXENCVLMOMobil_Delvac_1_ESP_5W-40.aspx
I was told by a few techs from Motul (USA and France) that the 300V race oils are fine for street use and the oil change intervals can be extended beyond 5k with light track days. I have posted results from using 300V, by a guy with an Audi and the Blackstone lab's results (after 10k miles were put on and with light track days) told the guy that he could go beyond 10k and that the oil looks fine - see the report bellow. The 300V oils are NOT just for track use, but if anyone runs very hard on the track and tracks the car offten, then the oil changes should be right after the track events. My track days are not too hard and they are not very frequent.
My results with Motul's 300V Power 5W-40 oil have been very pleasing. The car runs smoother, quieter, feels stronger and uses hardly any oil (compared to when I was using a Mobil-1 0W-40) and the color of my oil is still golden, compared to Mobil, which would turn much darker after the same amount of miles.
Who ever said Motul's 300V oils are not street approved made a mistake, must have been a sales rep only. Every customer whom my tuner works on and gets only Motul's 300V oil and that is for every type of Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, etc that rolls into the shop and nobody but me tracks their DD and all want only Motul's 300V oils. I have spoken with numerous of these guys and no one had any issues with running the 300V oils on the street.
I drive less than 7k per year and even with light track days, my oil is fine and gets changed once a year.
Here's a good write up on the 300V series benefits.
"The goal of racing is to optimize the performance of a given machine for a specific race.
Hence, a single lubricant alone cannot possibly achieve top performance for every engine type in every event. MOTUL MOTORSPORT, thanks to its line-up of four different products, shall match every combination of motors and races. Suit engines of any displacement, whether of recent or past technology (Historic racing car type), multivalve, turbocharged or atmospheric, carburettors as well as fuel-injection, using leaded or unleaded gas, diesel-oil or liquefied gas, and catalytic exhausts.
For the most demanding uses of engines and lubricants :
* car racing
* sporty motoring
* long motorway journeys
* trips too short for a proper warm-up
* heavy hauls (trailers or caravans)
* city use (fuel washout during protracted idle, high running temperature for lack of engine cooling).
PERFORMANCE
Formulated upon esters and extremely efficient antifriction stocks, the 300V's are 100% SYNTHETIC and include no-or quite little (*)-viscosity boosters to achieve an extraordinary high resistance to shear.
The common characteristics along the whole 300V line are :
* a remarkable decrease of the engines internal frictions, which guarantees high performance and reliability, quite often topped with a noticeable decrease of running noises
* a top resistance to high temperature charring - an extreme resistance of the oil film
* a low volatility, with quite little evaporation at high temperatures.
MANUFACTURERS REFERENCES : HONDA MUGEN, OSELLA ALFA ROMEO, PORSCHE, JAGUAR, NISMO, VENTURI, KREMER PORSCHE, COURAGE, SONAUTO PORSCHE, and many private racing teams.
SPECIFIC TESTS
- Oil film resistance
Conventional multiple grade mineral and semi-synthetic motor oils, as 100% synthetic super-multigrade lubricants (5W40, 5W50, 10W60...) use additives to boost their viscosity. These viscosity additives tend to loose efficiency when submitted to extreme conditions, which translates into a drop of viscosity and oil pressure.
Since the 300V's of the MOTUL MOTORSPORT line benefit from the natural viscosity of synthetic ester basestocks, they need very little of such additives, or none (*).
The ASTM D 4741 official test of HT/HS* (High Temperature High Shear) viscosity measures the viscosity of lubricants at very high temperature (150C / 302F) and shear (1 000 000 s-1). This test is considered to be a good model of the fluid's state when exposed to extreme shear and temperature as found in an engine.
The higher the benchmark, the best the oil film keeps up its viscosity, hence its resistance to high stress in hydrodynamic rating. Tests prove the best results are achieved with a high viscosity grade (50 or 60) at high temperature, and without viscosity boosters.
- Resistance to high temperature coking
While racing, when the engine is pushed to the extreme, or during pit stops and refuellings, the oil temperature reaches maximal values.
Same happens to usual cars when stuck in traffic jams, hard or fast-driven for long journeys, or stopped at busy toll-gates.
Hence the capital attention to avoid the carbonization of lubricants heated to high temperatures.The lubricant residues carbonized through overheating (i.e. charring) are weighed, the best benchmark being a low weight.
The test measures the coking of engine oils at a sustained high temperature (5 days at 160C / 320F) and blasted for 48 hours against an aluminum shim heated at 290C / 554F.
Tests prove the choice of basestocks, especially synthetic ester bases, to be a major promoter of resistance to high temperature coking.
The 300V's of the MOTORSPORT line reveal virtually almost no coking during this test."
My results with Motul's 300V Power 5W-40 oil have been very pleasing. The car runs smoother, quieter, feels stronger and uses hardly any oil (compared to when I was using a Mobil-1 0W-40) and the color of my oil is still golden, compared to Mobil, which would turn much darker after the same amount of miles.
Who ever said Motul's 300V oils are not street approved made a mistake, must have been a sales rep only. Every customer whom my tuner works on and gets only Motul's 300V oil and that is for every type of Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, etc that rolls into the shop and nobody but me tracks their DD and all want only Motul's 300V oils. I have spoken with numerous of these guys and no one had any issues with running the 300V oils on the street.
I drive less than 7k per year and even with light track days, my oil is fine and gets changed once a year.
Here's a good write up on the 300V series benefits.
"The goal of racing is to optimize the performance of a given machine for a specific race.
Hence, a single lubricant alone cannot possibly achieve top performance for every engine type in every event. MOTUL MOTORSPORT, thanks to its line-up of four different products, shall match every combination of motors and races. Suit engines of any displacement, whether of recent or past technology (Historic racing car type), multivalve, turbocharged or atmospheric, carburettors as well as fuel-injection, using leaded or unleaded gas, diesel-oil or liquefied gas, and catalytic exhausts.
For the most demanding uses of engines and lubricants :
* car racing
* sporty motoring
* long motorway journeys
* trips too short for a proper warm-up
* heavy hauls (trailers or caravans)
* city use (fuel washout during protracted idle, high running temperature for lack of engine cooling).
PERFORMANCE
Formulated upon esters and extremely efficient antifriction stocks, the 300V's are 100% SYNTHETIC and include no-or quite little (*)-viscosity boosters to achieve an extraordinary high resistance to shear.
The common characteristics along the whole 300V line are :
* a remarkable decrease of the engines internal frictions, which guarantees high performance and reliability, quite often topped with a noticeable decrease of running noises
* a top resistance to high temperature charring - an extreme resistance of the oil film
* a low volatility, with quite little evaporation at high temperatures.
MANUFACTURERS REFERENCES : HONDA MUGEN, OSELLA ALFA ROMEO, PORSCHE, JAGUAR, NISMO, VENTURI, KREMER PORSCHE, COURAGE, SONAUTO PORSCHE, and many private racing teams.
SPECIFIC TESTS
- Oil film resistance
Conventional multiple grade mineral and semi-synthetic motor oils, as 100% synthetic super-multigrade lubricants (5W40, 5W50, 10W60...) use additives to boost their viscosity. These viscosity additives tend to loose efficiency when submitted to extreme conditions, which translates into a drop of viscosity and oil pressure.
Since the 300V's of the MOTUL MOTORSPORT line benefit from the natural viscosity of synthetic ester basestocks, they need very little of such additives, or none (*).
The ASTM D 4741 official test of HT/HS* (High Temperature High Shear) viscosity measures the viscosity of lubricants at very high temperature (150C / 302F) and shear (1 000 000 s-1). This test is considered to be a good model of the fluid's state when exposed to extreme shear and temperature as found in an engine.
The higher the benchmark, the best the oil film keeps up its viscosity, hence its resistance to high stress in hydrodynamic rating. Tests prove the best results are achieved with a high viscosity grade (50 or 60) at high temperature, and without viscosity boosters.
- Resistance to high temperature coking
While racing, when the engine is pushed to the extreme, or during pit stops and refuellings, the oil temperature reaches maximal values.
Same happens to usual cars when stuck in traffic jams, hard or fast-driven for long journeys, or stopped at busy toll-gates.
Hence the capital attention to avoid the carbonization of lubricants heated to high temperatures.The lubricant residues carbonized through overheating (i.e. charring) are weighed, the best benchmark being a low weight.
The test measures the coking of engine oils at a sustained high temperature (5 days at 160C / 320F) and blasted for 48 hours against an aluminum shim heated at 290C / 554F.
Tests prove the choice of basestocks, especially synthetic ester bases, to be a major promoter of resistance to high temperature coking.
The 300V's of the MOTORSPORT line reveal virtually almost no coking during this test."
Attachments
Last edited:
Hear, hear! What are your three favourite oils for our M119?
I just did an oil change with Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 0W-40 but I am considering Redline 5W-40 or Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40 for my next change.
My car regularly sees cold starts around 32F so low temp viscosity is an important factor.
At the moment I'm partial to Red Line 10W-40, and either Motul 300V or Amsoil "AMO" would probably be my second choice. There are probably a couple other good ones I can't think of offhand.
Viscosity is not super critical for only 32F, all good synthetics will practically flow like water at that temp. When you start getting below 0°F, then you might need to be more selective, but even most "thicker" synthetics will still flow extremely well in sub-zero (F) temps. Remember that the Delvac-1 ESP is "Emissions System Protection". It's a good oil but is a bit low on additives, so it won't mess with the soot filters on the newest diesels.
Oil mfr's dink with their formula & additives periodically so be careful when reading information that is many years old. A classic example is the Red Line 5W-40 and 15W-40 diesel oils, which in the mid 2000's still had moly... but when they went for the CJ API rating in the late 2000's, they removed the moly. It's still good oil, but I'd kinda like the moly additive, which is why I'm sticking with the 10W-40 for now.
YMMV, yadda x3...
Viscosity is not super critical for only 32F, all good synthetics will practically flow like water at that temp. When you start getting below 0°F, then you might need to be more selective, but even most "thicker" synthetics will still flow extremely well in sub-zero (F) temps. Remember that the Delvac-1 ESP is "Emissions System Protection". It's a good oil but is a bit low on additives, so it won't mess with the soot filters on the newest diesels.
Oil mfr's dink with their formula & additives periodically so be careful when reading information that is many years old. A classic example is the Red Line 5W-40 and 15W-40 diesel oils, which in the mid 2000's still had moly... but when they went for the CJ API rating in the late 2000's, they removed the moly. It's still good oil, but I'd kinda like the moly additive, which is why I'm sticking with the 10W-40 for now.
YMMV, yadda x3...
Don't know anything about it. However most "new" oils tend to be designed with emissions and fuel economy as the primary directives. Got any info on the new stuff? Links?
Don't know anything about it. However most "new" oils tend to be designed with emissions and fuel economy as the primary directives. Got any info on the new stuff? Links?
I'll look into it. It's probably Fuchs. I didn't pay it much mind because I'm sure the powers that be will be sticking with Mobil, and at first we heard that it was only going to be offered in 0-30 or 5-30. As you were saying, Dave...
Ok, it looks like those ones I was thinking of are being phased out. There is new MB branded oil in the pipeline. Looks like it's going to be offered in 5W-40. I'll have to find out more next week...
I see the Colonel hijacked my signature image for his avatar, WTF
Anyway, on the oil. I use Motul 8100 Excess 5W40
Great specs and a group IV
the colonel caught the Jelmer disease where the member frequently & somewhat randomly changes avatars.
Nothing to see here. Move along! Move along!
[youtube]2I33k8vV3Sk[/youtube]
I saved all the others they will return when appropriate.
This information was clearly only discriminated on a "needs to know" basis, and even then, the recipient probably still had to be killed...
Maybe I'm getting closer to cracking the code. Boge is located in Bielefeld, Germany and there is a single B on the motor mount in this picture.
http://www.carid.com/1998-mercedes-clk-class-motor-mounts/item-7733562.html
Sales pitch presented without comment:
Mercedes CLK320 1998-2002, Engine Mount by Boge®. Is your vehicle feeling down on power? Do you see dark puddles on the ground when you park? Is your CHECK ENGINE light on? Your engine may be in need of repair, but before you waste your time and gas running out to the auto parts chain store, check out our great selection of replacement engine parts. With just a phone call or a few clicks of the mouse you can have OE quality engine parts, at great prices, delivered to your door in just 1-2 days.
http://www.carid.com/1998-mercedes-clk-class-motor-mounts/item-7733562.html
Sales pitch presented without comment:
Mercedes CLK320 1998-2002, Engine Mount by Boge®. Is your vehicle feeling down on power? Do you see dark puddles on the ground when you park? Is your CHECK ENGINE light on? Your engine may be in need of repair, but before you waste your time and gas running out to the auto parts chain store, check out our great selection of replacement engine parts. With just a phone call or a few clicks of the mouse you can have OE quality engine parts, at great prices, delivered to your door in just 1-2 days.
Just purchased 10L of Motul 8100 X-CESS 5W-40 and Motul 300V 20w-60 for the RX7 (high fuel dilution).
We shall see . . .
neilWhen purchasing motul, I found one of the Amazon retailer sells it cheaper on his website and has free shipping. It seemmed like the only 5w40 low ash besides Mobil 1 in the USA. Lots of 5w30.
Done it twice in my wife's on642.
500e is running redline and 420e is delvac m-1.
M
Done it twice in my wife's on642.
500e is running redline and 420e is delvac m-1.
M
So let's say you have a parts chaser status car. It burns a little oil, so you really don't want to spring for the high dollar stuff. You just want a good quality 10/40 or 20/50 oil for your old friend cause you want said old friend to be able to stick around for a long time to come. And lets say that said car's oil consumption rate isn't high enough for the oil consumption itself to be a consideration in the oil choice. What oil do you run if said car is a diesel and what oil do you run if said car is a gasser?
Favorite
Anybody here have the real specs to the new Pennzoil synthetic?
First synthetic I ever used was a Pennzoil back in the early 1980's that was at first formulated specifically for use in Top Fuel and Top Alcohol drag cars in 50 W then they released a 20/50 for street use. Best stuff I have ever seen and tearing down an engine that has been running this stuff will make you an instant believer in it!! Way back in 1981 it was expensive over $6 a quart!! It did not sell well and was discontinued in the mid 80's and the later synthetics they did were cheaper but were not the same stock and did not perform as well. This new stuff has my interest because of what I saw in the performance of the early stuff.
First synthetic I ever used was a Pennzoil back in the early 1980's that was at first formulated specifically for use in Top Fuel and Top Alcohol drag cars in 50 W then they released a 20/50 for street use. Best stuff I have ever seen and tearing down an engine that has been running this stuff will make you an instant believer in it!! Way back in 1981 it was expensive over $6 a quart!! It did not sell well and was discontinued in the mid 80's and the later synthetics they did were cheaper but were not the same stock and did not perform as well. This new stuff has my interest because of what I saw in the performance of the early stuff.
Use whatever Penzoil you want that meets Mercedes-Benz specification 229.3 or 229.5 with an OEM filter and you will be absolutely fine. At least one of their synthetics meet those specs.
I've used the Pennzoil Ultra 0W-20 in my wife's Toyota for the past two years, 7500 mile change interval, with no issues that I can see. Compared to the weights I'm accustomed to using with MB and BMW engines, it still feels weird pouring in something that feels more like "water" than motor oil, but that is what Toyota spec calls for (the factory spec for oil changes was every 10,000 miles but I just couldn't stand waiting that long.)
I probably wouldn't have gone here if it wasn't already an oil thread, but since it is... I'm not a fan of Pennzoil and I personally have no interest in using their products in any of my vehicles. There are other, more robust products available at comparable prices. I think this is the first time I've ever seen Pennzoil mentioned on this forum, or the other major MB forums. (??)
That said, if a products meets the MB spec which applies to your car, AND you change it per MB's spec (be careful - MB's definition of normal vs severe service may be different from yours)... you SHOULD be ok.
Ditto for other mfr's, like vatc's Toyota mentioned above. If the mfr specs it and you change it when they say, at least it won't void your warranty!
That said, if a products meets the MB spec which applies to your car, AND you change it per MB's spec (be careful - MB's definition of normal vs severe service may be different from yours)... you SHOULD be ok.
Ditto for other mfr's, like vatc's Toyota mentioned above. If the mfr specs it and you change it when they say, at least it won't void your warranty!
As far as I used to remember, the MB dealership in Portland used to use Pennzoil oils as dealership-fill on cars they serviced. This was 10+ years ago (not that I ever serviced any of my cars there....).
I thought the attached sheet would be interested for :clarkz3: and
I thought the attached sheet would be interested for :clarkz3: and
As far as I used to remember, the MB dealership in Portland used to use Pennzoil oils as dealership-fill on cars they serviced. This was 10+ years ago (not that I ever serviced any of my cars there....).
I thought the attached sheet would be interested for :clarkz3: and
Really, an approved list from 1979. 35 years ago
I came across this looking up what oils are still green
Just Brad Penn from what I can see, Kendell GT is no longer green.
.
"I will try my best to give a quick history lesson about PA oil companies.
Originally you had Pennzoil, Quaker State, Wolf's Head, Kendall, and Amalie all located in PA.
The Pennzoil Company bought the Wolf's Head Company sometime back in the 70's and Kendall and Amalie merged together by a company called Witco. Then The Pennzoil Company bought Quaker State Oil Company to form the Pennzoil/Quaker State Company and they still made Wolf's Head oil. Witco sold the Kendall name to Conoco/Phillips and Amalie moved their operations to Tampa, FL.
Witco then sold the Bradford Refinery to American Refinery Corp where they now make Brad Penn and Gulf oils.
After Shell Oil purchased the Pennzoil/Quaker State Company, they sold the Wolf's Head name to the company that owns Amalie in Tampa.
The current Kendall GT-1 is not green. The only green oil that I know of from all of this is the Brad Penn Racing Oils.
If you do a google search for Amalie and Wolf's Head you will see that they have the same address in Tampa and the same contact names.
All very confusing, but that's where we are at today"
Just Brad Penn from what I can see, Kendell GT is no longer green.
.
"I will try my best to give a quick history lesson about PA oil companies.
Originally you had Pennzoil, Quaker State, Wolf's Head, Kendall, and Amalie all located in PA.
The Pennzoil Company bought the Wolf's Head Company sometime back in the 70's and Kendall and Amalie merged together by a company called Witco. Then The Pennzoil Company bought Quaker State Oil Company to form the Pennzoil/Quaker State Company and they still made Wolf's Head oil. Witco sold the Kendall name to Conoco/Phillips and Amalie moved their operations to Tampa, FL.
Witco then sold the Bradford Refinery to American Refinery Corp where they now make Brad Penn and Gulf oils.
After Shell Oil purchased the Pennzoil/Quaker State Company, they sold the Wolf's Head name to the company that owns Amalie in Tampa.
The current Kendall GT-1 is not green. The only green oil that I know of from all of this is the Brad Penn Racing Oils.
If you do a google search for Amalie and Wolf's Head you will see that they have the same address in Tampa and the same contact names.
All very confusing, but that's where we are at today"
There is absolutely no better oil for cars with "flat-tappet" valvetrains (in the case of the M117, a "cam follower" design). Neeeeed lots of ZDDP for those motors!!! I change it every 3K miles, 20W-50.
My former E320 wagon (M104) got Chevron DELO 400, diesel engine oil, 15W-40, changed every 2K.
The M119 in the E500? 5W-40 RedLine (that stuff that USED to be MBNA-approved, and is better quality than just about anything that MBUSA currently HAS on its approved list). Changed every 5K.
Aye Vader, the cleanliness of my M119, my M117, and my [former] M104 speak for themselves......
Cheers,
Gerry
My former E320 wagon (M104) got Chevron DELO 400, diesel engine oil, 15W-40, changed every 2K.
The M119 in the E500? 5W-40 RedLine (that stuff that USED to be MBNA-approved, and is better quality than just about anything that MBUSA currently HAS on its approved list). Changed every 5K.
Aye Vader, the cleanliness of my M119, my M117, and my [former] M104 speak for themselves......
Cheers,
Gerry
Vader,
The refinery in Bradford, PA where the Brad Penn oil is made, USED to be the Kendall refinery for many years. Kendall made the Green Oil and for many years was known as a top-notch motor oil. Some years back they sold off the Kendall name, which was slapped on "regular" crap oil. The Brad Penn refinery continues on, operated by American Refining, and they rebranded the old Kendall stuff as "Brad Penn" with the same formula and quality as it was back in the day. And they have a great niche among muscle car and Porsche aficionados, and some Benz folks and others too.
Kendall today is just like any other common "dino" oil. Not horrible, not great. It's just a brand name.
The Bradford PA refinery is the longest continuously operating oil refinery in the world. All of its oils come from base stocks that are from Pennsylvania crude oil. And ... it is 100% Made in the USA. Can't beat that.
Cheers,
Gerry
Vader,
The refinery in Bradford, PA where the Brad Penn oil is made, USED to be the Kendall refinery for many years. Kendall made the Green Oil and for many years was known as a top-notch motor oil. Some years back they sold off the Kendall name, which was slapped on "regular" crap oil. The Brad Penn refinery continues on, operated by American Refining, and they rebranded the old Kendall stuff as "Brad Penn" with the same formula and quality as it was back in the day. And they have a great niche among muscle car and Porsche aficionados, and some Benz folks and others too.
Kendall today is just like any other common "dino" oil. Not horrible, not great. It's just a brand name.
The Bradford PA refinery is the longest continuously operating oil refinery in the world. All of its oils come from base stocks that are from Pennsylvania crude oil. And ... it is 100% Made in the USA. Can't beat that.
Cheers,
Gerry
I thought all oil from pennsylvania has a parifin content that is undesirably high?
I'm not knowledgable enough about oil. Please don't misinterpret my post. I'm just genuinely curious about this stuff.
