Engine oil recommendations

[Odessit86]

thank you very much for contacting us and your interest in our LIQUI MOLY products.

Our LIQUI MOLY LEICHTLAUF HIGH TECH 5W-40 is a group III based engine oil.

Group lll..? Is that good?

 

[gsxr]

Group lll..? Is that good?

Group III is good, but not necessarily the best. Group IV/V oils are better but also cost about twice as much as Group III oils. For normal use with normal change intervals (3-5kmi) a Group III oil is fine. For extended drain intervals (7-15kmi) I would not recommend a Group III oil.

On the flip side, some high ester content (Group V) oils are also not ideal for extended drains, but there aren't many of these around, and they are usually the most expensive oils you can buy. For example, Motul 300V Chrono falls into this category - click here for a short video with a good summary. Fantastic stuff but ~$20/liter with a short change interval ain't in my budget.

 

[bb1]

Liqui Moly Superleichtlauf 5w40 ist approved for 25000mi oil change interval on some car manufactures.

http://www.liqui-moly.us/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/us_2331.html?OpenDocument&land=US

Friends are using this stuff in there "SLS's" and they driving with them on Racetracks....

 

[maw1124]

Liqui Moly Superleichtlauf 5w40 ist approved for 25000mi oil change interval on some car manufactures.

http://www.liqui-moly.us/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/us_2331.html?OpenDocument&land=US

Friends are using this stuff in there "SLS's" and they driving with them on Racetracks....

What's the difference between "Leichtlauf" (your link) and "Superleichtlauf" (which you mention in your post but which isn't in their catalog at all)?

It looks like 229.5 (fleece filter) is the long life MB spec, which superseded but is still backward compatible with 229.3 (paper filter) regular interval MB Spec.

And yeah, my racing "friends" use all kinds of stuff (including Mobil 1 15W-50 in my 500E in FL, when it was running the One Lap of America and otherwise not driven much), but they're also quick to point out that I'm driving the car nowhere near those conditions. Ever. And Mobil 1 back then was a Group IV product, no longer so today. So you make a decision based partly on spec, but also based on the conditions your car actually sees.

Is your car in FL or Germany, and how do you plan to drive it?

maw

 

[gsxr]

No Group III oil that I've ever seen will make it to 10kmi without shearing down and starting to consume / burn a quart every couple thousand miles. That's the problem with Group III's and extended drains. Usually, any mfr that claims extended drains (15k-25kmi) only makes that claim with a Group IV/V oil.

Side note... all Mobil-1 was Group IV/V until about 10 years ago. Around that time, they switched to Group III for most everything except their "Extended Performance" lineup.

 

[maw1124]

No Group III oil that I've ever seen will make it to 10kmi without shearing down and starting to consume / burn a quart every couple thousand miles. That's the problem with Group III's and extended drains. Usually, any mfr that claims extended drains (15k-25kmi) only makes that claim with a Group IV/V oil.

Side note... all Mobil-1 was Group IV/V until about 10 years ago. Around that time, they switched to Group III for most everything except their "Extended Performance" lineup.

Agreed. The Audi is the one where I see this the most, although I have seen it on the S55 once when I ran it past a year (maybe around 8k miles). For the Audi, I'm thinking Amsoil is the fix (if any). That engine is known to run "warm" (way worse than these E500Es) and smoke oil like Marlboros.

To point out the obvious, there are no "extended drains" on racetracks...

maw

 

[bb1]

What's the difference between "Leichtlauf" (your link) and "Superleichtlauf" (which you mention in your post but which isn't in their catalog at all)?
maw

Sorry, my mistake.. "Leichtlauf" is correct. "Superleichtlauf" is the other name of the Syntoil HightTech direkt from the Productionplant/Brand (100% owned by LM, but way cheaper).


After I talk today with LM, the "Synthoil HighTech 5w40" from the German Market is not longer imported to US. The new one for US ist the "Leichtlauf High Tech 5w40". Different mixture!
Compared to the "Synthoil Premium 5w40" the Leichtlauf is the Flagship of LM for the US Market.

From normal-sporty-to Full throttle Speeds. 500E sits in Germany and is waiting for Sommer.. still to young for the "25y-import-law"

 

[Eno]

Does anyone have experience using 5W-40 Total Fully Synthetic engine oil in our 124.036's?
The official Mercedes Benz in Qatar (NBK) uses the Total Quartz 9000.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[French02chris]

Hello all....

I am not asking which oil is better as everyone will have a different opinion...

But I just wanted to ask if anyone has used the NEW DELO 400 SDE yet??? and any difference with the old DELO 400LE

On my car, I have used Delo 400LE as well as Rotella T4 ( 15W40)

Thanks

 

[clarkz71]

What about the oil at Jiffy Lube........

 

[French02chris]

What about the oil at Jiffy Lube........

I do my own oil change...pretty easy and cheaper...don't want any of those places f*cking up my engine...lol
anyways, Not my question at all

 

[clarkz71]

Oh, that's a good point.

 

[gsxr]

But I just wanted to ask if anyone has used the NEW DELO 400 SDE yet??? and any difference with the old DELO 400LE

On my car, I have used Delo 400LE as well as Rotella T4 ( 15W40)

Here's the spec sheet:
https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=481951&docFormat=PDF

I'm not crazy about the low levels of ZDDP:
Ph = 760
Zn = 800

If you use this stuff, I'd change it by 3-5kmi (5-7kkm).

 

[French02chris]

Here's the spec sheet:
https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=481951&docFormat=PDF

I'm not crazy about the low levels of ZDDP:
Ph = 760
Zn = 800

If you use this stuff, I'd change it by 3-5kmi (5-7kkm).

Thanks....and I do my changes every 3500 miles

 

[gerryvz]

I have been using the DELO 400LE for many years in my M104 vehicles (the former Gerrywagen and also my G-wagen). The oil was always changed at 2,000-3,000-mile intervals, with new filter. High ZDDP levels are not necessarily needed for these motors, but the high levels of detergents in it are helpful and good.

The photos of the M104 top-end rebuild that I did, showing the inside of the valvetrain mechanism, speak for themselves as far as how well the diesel-engine motor oil detergents keep things clean....

The "old" DELO 400LE had "good enough" levels of ZDDP. Looks like they've reduced this. That's a bummer.

I will likely move on to another oil after I use this last batch of DELO LE that I have in my stock. Likely will go to either Brad Penn or maybe just move it over to RedLine, which I have now been using (at GSXR's strong recommendation/behest) with my E500.

I hate how the oil companies constantly monkey with their formulas, reducing the quality and abilities of their oils. Yet they market them as always being better, somehow. Like these new "annual oils" that 600Eric is showing us here on the forum. I'm sure he's using this oil in his restored 500E

 

[gsxr]

The "old" DELO 400 LE had "good enough" levels of ZDDP. Looks like they've reduced this. That's a bummer.:

Datasheet attached for the old 400 LE. The SDE appears to be designed for new diesels with particulate traps (BLUETEC, etc). Personally I would use the LE, and would prefer to not use the SDE.

DELO 400 SDE:
Ph = 760
Zn = 800

DELO 400 LE:
Ph = 1200
Zn = 1300

That is a HUGE difference. While it's true that ZDDP levels are less critical in M104/M119/M120 engines with overhead cams, I don't see any point in purposely using a product with low levels only required for certain new diesel engines.

 

[gerryvz]

Personally I would use the LE, and would prefer to not use the SDE.

DELO 400 SDE:
Ph = 760
Zn = 800

DELO 400 LE:
Ph = 1200
Zn = 1300

That is a HUGE difference. While it's true that ZDDP levels are less critical in M104/M119/M120 engines with overhead cams, I don't see any point in purposely using a product with low levels only required for certain new diesel engines.

Exactly my sentiment. I would not use the "new" DELO 400SDE, but have been very happy with the "old formula" DELO 400LE. The "older formula" DELO 400 was even better than the LE.....

 

[French02chris]

I went to Walmart yesterday...unfortunately, they don't have the "old" Delo 400LE anymore!! only the new one...

So I think that I will stick with either the Shell Rotela T4 ( which is in the engine right now for another 2K miles) or the Mobil Delvac 1300

 

[gerryvz]

I went to Walmart yesterday...unfortunately, they don't have the "old" Delo 400LE anymore!! only the new one...

So I think that I will stick with either the Shell Rotela T4 ( which is in the engine right now for another 2K miles) or the Mobil Delvac 1300

The Rotella is a great substitute and an almost identical oil. Would use it no problem.

Check your local Tractor Supply Corp (TSC) to see if they have the 5-gallon buckets in stock. Not quite as good of a price as Wally World has the 2.5-gallon jugs for, but the 5-gal pails come in handy for storing used oil.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/chevron-delo-400-le-sae-15w-40-5-gal?cm_vc=-10005

$70 a pop and you can go and pick it up. Although it looks like they've already replaced it with the new crap.....

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[maw1124]

Looks like I need to hunt and stack the "old" Delo, for all cars except the M3. It's amazing how similar the M119 is to the M113k and the Audi 4.2 when it comes to oil spec.

Thanks for the info, Gents.

I think the oil spec keeps reducing with the quality of the cars it's going in, and the intended use, quite frankly. People treat cars like shoes anymore, with no real intent on keeping them. So why bother with a HQ oil? An annual oil change is now sold like the latest 4G or 4K hi-def; just another added convenience feature. As if people's convenience is all that matters. There's a societal commentary in there somewhere, but I have no interest in it. It is what it is.

Cheers,

maw

 

[French02chris]

Found some "old" Delo 400LE at my local Napa Auto store ( I can actually walk to the store...that's how close it is from my house...LOL )

 

[Odessit86]

hey guys .. yesterday i ask Mercedes mechanic which oil is the best in M113 ( i know its a m119 thread) Castrol edge or Liqui Moly.. and he tell me stick with Mobil 1 because it been develop with Mobil 1. and its good enough for normal engine.. . i was surprised ..Any thoughts ???
And how good a Red line oil is? Its not in the list 229.5.. how does Red line oil compare to Liqui Moly Leichtlauf (made in Germany)?

 

[Glen]

How do you, personally, define best oil?
IMO, any oil that meets the requirements of the engine manufacturer is all that's necessary. The important thing is to make sure you have the proper amount and that you change it regularly, based on the type of oil you use; eg. conventional (~3000 mile OCI) or synthetic (~5000+ mile OCI, Group 4/5 oils can extend to ~10,000+ miles)

Mobil 1 is a perfectly good oil and will protect your M113 just fine. Case in point, my high miler '94 E500 has 618,000 miles and has used Mobil 1 almost exclusively it's whole life...this is the original engine that has not been rebuilt.

If you want an engine to last, you should avoid short trips where the engine never reaches normal operating temp before being turned off to sit for several hours only to be driven for another short trip. In other words, when you drive your car, take it out for at least 30 minutes take it on the freeway/highway as often as possible.

 

[alabbasi]

I use whatever i drain out of my diesel super duty after 20,000 miles. Not sure if its zinc but there appears to be plenty of metal in there.

 

[Stevester 500E]

what ever keeps the engine lubricated, yet keeping maximum compression, yet maintaining the seals and not damaging them....I guess that would be a start. I would think dino oil would be good for at least 3000 miles.

 

[gsxr]

Ditto everything Glen said. Mobil-1 is fine but I would change it by 5kmi now that it's a Group III base stock.

I know nothing about Liqui Moly Leichtlauf so I can't compare it to Red Line. See if you can find VOA data somewhere (like the BITOG forum) and compare the the specific Red Line viscosity you plan to use. The various Red Line viscosities are not all the same, especially anything that is specifically designed for diesel or "euro" applications... these tend to have less additives. YMMV, etc.

 

[gerryvz]

Wow. Just wow.

 

[E500star]

Folks, may someone recommend viscosity 10w60 -10w40 -5w40 ?

 

[195910]

Folks, may someone recommend viscosity 10w60 -10w40 -5w40 ?

10W60 was never in the recommended viscosity grades for Mercedes, maximum grade is 5w50 and 15w50.
Ideally use 5W40 for synthetic and 10W40 for semi synthetic. These are the grades used at the M-B dealerships at that period as well (look at the stamps in the service book).

 

[MikeinTampa]

Wow. Just wow.

That's what I said when I put the Red Line 10w-40 in my car last month.

 

[alabbasi]

Found some "old" Delo 400LE at my local Napa Auto store ( I can actually walk to the store...that's how close it is from my house...LOL )

So how many gallon jugs do you walk back with?

 

[gerryvz]

I love the smell of RedLine when it comes out of the bottle. It smells good enough to eat/drink.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dario]

Anyone used this for 4K miles oil change intervals? Seems like 10W-40 only comes in "high mileage" form. Or 5W-40 castrol would be better option for 4k miles per year oil change? Would you go for 10W-40 or 5W-40? I just think "diesel" oil like 5W-40 is not good for like 4K rpm or over to protect walls. Great amount of zinc. So go for castrol edge 5W-40 or castrol edge "high mileage" 10W-40 or 5W-40 TDT MOBIL 1 for 4K miles per year oil change on a car that is not really tracked? Thx guys

 

[gsxr]

Anyone used this for 4K miles oil change intervals? Seems like 10W-40 only comes in "high mileage" form. Or 5W-40 castrol would be better option for 4k miles per year oil change? Would you go for 10W-40 or 5W-40? I just think "diesel" oil like 5W-40 is not good for like 4K rpm or over to protect walls. Great amount of zinc. So go for castrol edge 5W-40 or castrol edge "high mileage" 10W-40 or 5W-40 TDT MOBIL 1 for 4K miles per year oil change on a car that is not really tracked? Thx guys

With 4kmi changes, any of the above synthetics would be fine. There's no concern about high RPM with any of those oils either.

 

[Trae]

So, that's why they call it "Redline".

 

[Dario]

With 4kmi changes, any of the above synthetics would be fine. There's no concern about high RPM with any of those oils either.

So would you go with 10W-40 or 5W-40 in this case? Or it does not matter? 5W-40 has MB approval and 10W-40 does not

 

[Trae]

I think you should be OK with either in Chicago, however our Boise resident, GSXR, will probably give you his thoughts as those two cities probably share the same winter temps with Chicago ranging from 17-33 degrees F average winter temps.

 

[Dario]

I think you should be OK with either in Chicago, however our Boise resident, GSXR, will probably give you his thoughts as those two cities probably share the same winter temps with Chicago ranging from 17-33 degrees F average winter temps.

Car is not driven from before the first snow starts till it ends and first rain washes off salt. Ocassionally i start car in garage between November thru March. Driven about 4000 miles per year tops

 

[gsxr]

So would you go with 10W-40 or 5W-40 in this case? Or it does not matter? 5W-40 has MB approval and 10W-40 does not

I'm not sure if either of those oils have current MB approval, and if they do, it may be for specific spec sheets, which may or may not apply to the M119. For the M119 original requirements, either 10W-40 or 5W-40 with proper APL classification is fine. Poke around the MB spec sheets if you're bored; note that many of the 'approved' oils are not available for sale in USA.
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/bevo-sheets-sort1.html

Car is not driven from before the first snow starts till it ends and first rain washes off salt. Ocassionally i start car in garage between November thru March. Driven about 4000 miles per year tops

If not driven in sub-zero temps there is less need for a thinner (5W-40) oil. I would NOT start the car in the garage at all, if it will not be driven. There is ZERO problem parking the car for 6 months and not starting the engine. Add fuel stabilizer (Sta-Bil, etc) before parking and drive for 10-20 miles to make sure the stabilizer is circulated through the entire fuel system, then park it and leave it on a battery maintainer. Idling in the garage after a cold start for any amount of time, and not driving the car, is one of the worst things you can do to an engine. The coolant may get up to temp idling, but the oil and ATF barely get warm.

 

[Lynch]

Found a new Motul 100% synthetic Ester called Sport 5W40.

Any thoughts on this?

Photo: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...cture_1s/36603/double/59951_5L.png?1477662874
Technical Sheet: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...ets/81777/Sport_5W-40__28GB_29.pdf?1492017750

Rated for API SM, HTHS at 4.0 mPa.s, looks like a 300V for the street, above 8100 X-Cess and below 300V.
This could be the 100% Ester that I’ve been waiting for to replace 8100 X-Cess 5W40.

Any way to determine if this would be good for M119/M113, or find out the ZDDP or Moly amount?

The most interesting thing is that Motul took it off their website and I can’t find much discussion or information on it, not sure what to make of that.

 

[gsxr]

Rated for API SM, HTHS at 4.0 mPa.s, looks like a 300V for the street, above 8100 X-Cess and below 300V.
This could be the 100% Ester that I’ve been waiting for to replace 8100 X-Cess 5W40.

It sure looks good on paper. Any reason you don't want to use the 300V?

Any way to determine if this would be good for M119/M113, or find out the ZDDP or Moly amount?

It should be fine for M119/M113. Only way to find out ZDDP / moly levels is to get a VOA. If nobody has posted one on BITOG or similar forum, you could buy a couple jugs and send out a sample for VOA to find out. Since it's SM rated, I suspect the ZDDP levels might not be great, but that is less of a concern on M119/M113. (The M117 needs lots of ZDDP due to the old-school valvetrain design.)

The most interesting thing is that Motul took it off their website and I can’t find much discussion or information on it, not sure what to make of that.

Huh. That IS interesting...

 

[samiam44]

I racked up on the Motul 8100 X-cess as it was 229.5 approved and it has been on clearance for $33/5 liter bottle. I've been in the threads digging an ppl run 229.51 like Total 8100 0W30 see a couple miles a gallon increase but their iron content shoots up in the oil analysis. I think the 229.5 is the perfect world before recycling became the norm with "energy efficent oil".

Just looked up the Motul Sport. I doesn't suppose to be state-side till March or April.

 

[Trae]

Just bought 6 gallons of Shell Rotela T4 for $65 at Sam's Club.
That's $2.71/qt. to use in the M104.

Been using Redline 15-50 in all three M119s, but may switch the high mileage 500E to Shell Rotela T4 on the next change.
What say the oil gurus?

Brad Penn 20-50 in both M117s that require the high ZDDP level.

Motul 8100 X-Cess 5W40 for the M113.

Ya gotta love oil threads!

 

[gerryvz]

I get my Chevron DELO in the 5-gallon pails at Tractor Supply. They also sell 5-gallon pails of Rotella-T.

Wally World sells 2.5 gallon jugs of DELO at select stores. That’s just enough for a full M104 oil change.

The 5-gallon jugs are excellent for storing oil for recycling.

Oil thread....schmoil thread.

The beaches of Maui is where it’s at....minutes before we went sailing & whale-watching on one of those boats offshore.

 

[Trae]

Been using Redline 15-50 in all three M119s, but may switch the high mileage 500E to Shell Rotela T4 on the next change.
What say the oil gurus?

 

[Trae]

So, will it be dinosaur or synthetic oil so you won't get sunburned?

 

[gerryvz]

Lol. Amazing what a few months in Maryland will do to one.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gsxr]

Been using Redline 15-50 in all three M119s, but may switch the high mileage 500E to Shell Rotela T4 on the next change.
What say the oil gurus?

Trae, does the high-mile 500E consume any oil, and if so, how many miles per quart? Second question - how many miles per year (approx) do you put on that car?

 

[Trae]

It burns 1 qt./3-4000 mi., and travels about 6,000 mi./year.

Not as if it is the high mileage king, (Glen holds that position) but it does have nearly 240,000mi.

 

[gsxr]

It burns 1 qt./3-4000 mi., and travels about 6,000 mi./year.

I'd say you're kinda on the fence here. You could continue to use Redline and change at 6-7kmi, likely adding 1 quart in between. If it's using 2 quarts or more in that time, there's mild incentive to switch to dino. If using a fake synthetic (Group III) you could push this to 6-7k max; this would be a less expensive option than Red Line for a 5-7k change interval. You could go longer on the Red Line but the consumption rate makes the total cost questionable.

If you use dino, like the T4 or Delvac-1300... I'd change it by 3-4kmi max (probably adding zero, it should be at MIN mark at oil change time). Cost per fill is much lower, but you're changing twice as often.

Side note: Using 1 quart per 3000-4000 miles is pretty normal for an M119. A couple of my engines are better, a couple are worse. With over 200k, that's pretty good IMO!