Engine oil recommendations

[Klink]

Re: OWNER: Ertech

In agreement with all that, guys. The only thing I take any issue with is you don’t need to change even the “junk” Mobil1 group 3 oils at 3K. That’s crazy talk. They are fine out to five even if you are incredibly abusive, and I’ll say perfectly fine at 7.5 K, which is what is recommended on these cars, anyway. There is also no problem taking them out to 10, and even 13 on newer engines that recommend it, but as you and others have noted, and as has happened to me, they will start to consume a little once you get some miles on them, and they did not used to do this when they were of a higher category base stock. I have had a couple of oil engineer types tell me that they don’t even mind this additional consumption when going out to long intervals, because they like that the additives get a little bit of replenishment along the way. I’m not saying that’s valid, I’m just putting that out there.

 

[gsxr]

Re: OWNER: Ertech

In agreement with all that, guys. The only thing I take any issue with is you don’t need to change even the “junk” Mobil1 group 3 oils at 3K. That’s crazy talk. They are fine out to five even if you are incredibly abusive, and I’ll say perfectly fine at 7.5 K, which is what is recommended on these cars, anyway.

Very true. Changing M-1 at 3kmi in normal service is overkill. For severe service, or racing, maybe not. 5-7.5kmi would be my personal limit, because that's where the Group III oils generally start to shear down.

There is also no problem taking them out to 10, and even 13 on newer engines that recommend it, but as you and others have noted, and as has happened to me, they will start to consume a little once you get some miles on them, and they did not used to do this when they were of a higher category base stock. I have had a couple of oil engineer types tell me that they don’t even mind this additional consumption when going out to long intervals, because they like that the additives get a little bit of replenishment along the way. I’m not saying that’s valid, I’m just putting that out there.

This is where I disagree.

At 10k+ intervals, the engine will very likely start consuming a quart every 1-2kmi. Not only is it a nuisance to check the level & add oil that frequently, it's also taking a bite out of the savings of using the cheap oil. The engineers are correct btw, adding oil between changes does boost additives and TBN. I still prefer using an oil that doesn't shear down and require topping off after ~7kmi or so. Pretty much all of this is done in the name of cost reduction, which IMO starts pushing awfully close to "false economy"... which I'm highly allergic to. *ah-CHOO!*

For an engine you don't care about, sure, use SuperTech or whatever the cheapest stuff is you can find on sale, and push the OCI as far out as you dare. For an engine you do care about... use reasonable judgment to find a balance between cost and OCI's.

 

[jaymanek]

What about time?

It would take me many years to do 7.5K so I change my oil every 2 years now. Even thats probably only 2000 miles or even less for many of my cars...

I used to change the oil every year, but it got to a point where the oil coming out looked cleaner than the stuff going in!

 

[gsxr]

Most oil companies state to change every 12 months regardless of mileage. I think this is overkill, but I generally don't go beyond ~24 months for a car that is driven frequently. I've done UOA's at 24 months and not seen any issues.

Now, a vehicle in storage that is perhaps started / driven once or twice per year... that's a different discussion.

 

[gerryvz]

This is my personal OCI philosophy.

Pure Dino = 2-3K (3K is a good rule of thumb for most punters, with a bit of safety margin on top of that). I go 2K on my Chevron DELO 400, 3K if lazy.

"Partial Synthetic" = 3-5K (I consider Mobil 1 x40 & x50 oils to be partial synthetics). I go 3K on my Brad Penn.

Pure Synthetic = 5-7K (wouldn't go beyond 7.5K no matter what, safety margin to 10K). I go 5K on my RedLine.

I think it's overkill to change once a year if you only put say a couple thousand miles on the car. I think every two years is best for low use cars that don't hit your oil's OCI threshold, annually.

 

[Glen]

Re: OWNER: Ertech

I wonder what the average miles per year driven is for board members? I bet it's pretty low.
If so, I suspect folks are changing oil based on time rather than mileage. Just wondering.

For myself, I daily drive the '94 E500 high-miler. I've owned it for a little over 5 years now and have put just shy of 50,000 miles on it. I use M1 0W-40 Euro @ 5000 mile OCI.
Going through the records from DrP, it saw mostly Mobil 1 oil throughout it's life @ 7500 mile OCI.

Current mileage: 627,365

 

[Stevester 500E]

Re: OWNER: Ertech

That's one special high miler you have there Glen.

 

[lowman]

each 1000miles/1500miles from the day i bought mine .3 years ago approx.,I always start my car ownerships by doing excessive service..but after some time..i just continue doing the exagerrated oilchanges and stuff...just because i want to..and just because i can Cleans up the engine real good though..even though i do get "bullied at"at work and my carfriends for doing so..and im told that my engine runs more often without oilpressure...than With oilpressure

 

[gsxr]

That reminds me! A year or two ago, Klink threatened to post a rant about why changing your oil too often can actually be a bad thing. I have been curious ever since as to the science behind this.

 

[gerryvz]

Personally, I do not believe that changing one's oil and filter at 2,000-2,500 miles is excessively nor too frequent.

I've been driving and changing my own oil since 1983, and have yet to have an engine failure because of changing my (dino) oil at 2-2.5K.

YMMV, I guess.

 

[gsxr]

Personally, I do not believe that changing one's oil and filter at 2,000-2,500 miles is excessively nor too frequent.

I agree, Gerry. From memory, I think Klink meant changing at extreme intervals, like 500 miles. But, we'll have to wait for his certainly-epic rant!

 

[maw1124]

Re: OWNER: Ertech

I wonder what the average miles per year driven is for board members? I bet it's pretty low.
If so, I suspect folks are changing oil based on time rather than mileage. Just wondering.

For myself, I daily drive the '94 E500 high-miler. I've owned it for a little over 5 years now and have put just shy of 50,000 miles on it. I use M1 0W-40 Euro @ 5000 mile OCI.
Going through the records from DrP, it saw mostly Mobil 1 oil throughout it's life @ 7500 mile OCI.

Current mileage: 627,365

This is me. I change them all every 5k Miles, just so I can keep track. Keeps it easy — not even I can forget it. Nothing I’m doing in any car is going to foil any synthetic oil in 5k miles. That generally translates to once every year or 2.

maw

 

[Klink]

Re: OWNER: Ertech

FWIW: The Mercedes dealer 5W-40 oil spec'd for the AMG M156 engine (with similar valvetrain design as the M119) has relatively low ZDDP levels, ~800 P, ~1000 Zn (based on UOA). The M119 valvetrain doesn't really need a super high ZDDP levels like the M117, but I still don't like low-ZDDP emissions-friendly oils.

Now THAT'S news to me. I was told by someone that should know that the "blue cap" 229.5 "MB Genuine" dealer engine oil was identical to the previously sold MB dealer oil "Mobil1 Formula M 5W-40" which speced out Z/P identical to the store bought M1 0W-40. At the time, there was also a "Formula M 0W-40" which, shock of shocks, was also Z/P identical to store bought M1 0W-40. Regarding the "M1 Formula M" USA dealer oils, the 0W-40 was more expensive in any quantity than the 5W-40, so almost everyone ordered the 5W-40, so it seems logical that the 5W-40 is what got picked when MBUSA decided to self-brand the motor oil.

As I noted above, DO NOT confuse any of these oils I’m talking about with the diesel intended "green cap" "Mobil 1 ESP" (Emission System Protection) or MB Genuine “green cap” oils having the additional identifier suffixes such as 229.51, 2, 3, etc. These ARE NOT updated versions of 229.5, for example. They are low ash, low z/p oils for particulate filter equipped diesels with roller rockers. I am discussing none of those, I'm only talking about oils for M119s. MB permits them to be used in many of the gas cars and earlier diesels, but they are not the recommended oils for the gas cars and earlier diesels…

 

[Klink]

Personally, I do not believe that changing one's oil and filter at 2,000-2,500 miles is excessively nor too frequent.

I've been driving and changing my own oil since 1983, and have yet to have an engine failure because of changing my (dino) oil at 2-2.5K.

YMMV, I guess.

I agree, Gerry. From memory, I think Klink meant changing at extreme intervals, like 500 miles. But, we'll have to wait for his certainly-epic rant!

Sorry Guys, no time for a truly epic rant for quite a while. Here's the short version:

DISCLAIMER NOTICE! This is based on nothing more scientific than 40 years of personal experience, and my fairly good memory...

I noticed very early on that the major demographic that suffered the most unexplained catastrophic engine failures that could be conceivably related to lubrication were enthusiasts that changed their own oil and that insisted on doing it at some very short interval like 2K. The busy surgeon that forgot now and then and went well over the interval, never. The engine that REALLY looked brand new inside, the overwhelming majority. Mind you, these incidences were infrequent overall, as one would expect with MB, but I noticed that whenever one of these freak failures occurred, it was just about always to the guy that said, "I don't understand it! I change my oil RELIGIOUSLY at 1,1.5,2K (pick one) miles!" He had the receipts for the oil and filter purchases. He had the full maintenance log as if the car was Air Force One. He had the photos of him changing his oil at rest areas on long trips because going another few hundred miles on that filth was just unthinkable. I have no data, I have only my experience, and I'm telling you, there's something to it. It was ALWAYS that kind of guy. ALWAYS. Oh, and this was also the guy that had the most repeated M116-117 cam wear damages, too, and they seemed to happen at shorter intervals as that incident made him over-change his oil even MORE. Yes, I tried! There was NO talking these people out of this, because for them it really WAS about the oil change, and NOT about the engine life. They are obsessed with changing the oil. It’s their therapy. Even more so, it’s their disease. It’s their version of the endless hand washing, like the Jack Nicholson character in “As Good as it Gets”


My guess as to an answer for this observation, if there is one?
Oil is formulated to have a certain acid/base balance, etc. I can only guess that it was more optimum near the middle of its service life than at the beginning. I also wondered if the exponentially greater number of startups at lower oil pressures played a part, but I actually discount that more than my acid/base, or who knows whatever else theories...

Before you comment, please remember that I stated "unexplained" and "could be conceivably related to lubrication" I'm talking about things like the seized crank where nobody sees anything otherwise wrong. Bearings with too much play for no apparent reason. Cams seized to the rockers with the oil tubes attached and unrestricted, and with NO signs of wear to the cam bearings. All these at well under 100K miles.


There were PLENTY of explainable failures, like the massive overheat a thousand miles ago, like only about a quart of sludge left in the sump, like the seriously bent rods with the beach sand still in the air filter housing, and of course the ever excellent 40K mile car with the break-in oil filter still in place. Want to know the funny thing about THOSE ones with the break-in oil filters? The car was always immaculate. They looked like they belonged to detail shop owners. Always.

By the way, this stuff all slowly faded away with the general adoption of synthetics. My possible theory on that? Is the oil better? Hell yes, but I also think that the expense made some oil change crazy guys stop doing the 2K thing. He went out to at least 3 or 4K. now. Oh, and another possible theory? This was often also the same guy that I suspect also put in some miracle of modern science panther piss/widow's tears/racer's secret/my uncle got the recipe from Smokey Yunick himself oil additive. They wouldn't admit it, but I'm sure many of those guys did that...



[video=youtube;44DCWslbsNM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44DCWslbsNM[/video]

 

[Stevester 500E]

What happened?

 

[sheward]

Fill her up with Johnson? Ahh...no thanks.

drew

 

[Klink]

Ahh...no thanks.

That's NOT what she said!

 

[lowman]

I've yet to see engine failure as a result of an engine beeing to clean inside .I've definitely seen some engine failures as a result of soot,and a completely clogged up engine .But there are far to many variables for an engine failure to blame the frequent oil change for beeing the cause of an engine failing,if you ask me that is.That would really have to be investigated throughly.Complete teardown and analyzed the results ,and i would be really surprised if a major engine failure would be traceable back to "too fresh" oil.

If its so that the engine oil"Spec/Quality" is "designed" to start from "Good" ....then to "Better"...and then suddenly be worse.....well..i dont know..that would be strange and very interesting if that turned out to be the case.

 

[Klink]

I've yet to see engine failure as a result of an engine beeing to clean .I've definitely seen some engine failures as a result of soot,and completely clogged up engine .there are far to many variables for an engine failure ,so to blame the frequent oil change, is not correct if you ask me .

Oh, it is purely speculation on my part. As I said, I don't have an explanation for it, and it could be complete coincidence, but I have definitely seen such a pattern either through true increased occurrence, coincidence, or both. I have seen it enough times that I recommend that people don't change their oil at super short intervals. As I also said, I have not seen any such failures since the widespread adoption of synthetic oils, which is also interesting...

 

[lowman]

On which/what engines have you seen this occur?and what type of damage have you seen?

by the way...why are you behind bars?do you feel "locked up" in some way ?

 

[Klink]

On which/what engines have you seen this occur?and what type of damage have you seen?

by the way...why are you behind bars?do you feel "locked up" in some way ?

"Klink" is also American slang talk for jail, simulating the "KLINK" sound the steel doors make as they latch. As in this exchange: "Where's lowman?" "The police took his evoltwin and threw him in the klink"

 

[maw1124]

Klink’s “Guy” probably also drove the car to keep both the rpm and the oil pressure as low as possible, thinking the only needle that should point up is the fuel level.

Again, pure speculation on my part, but we can all imagine that guy.

maw

 

[gerryvz]

On which/what engines have you seen this occur?and what type of damage have you seen?

by the way...why are you behind bars?do you feel "locked up" in some way ?

"Klink" is also American slang talk for jail, simulating the "KLINK" sound the steel doors make as they latch. As in this exchange: "Where's lowman?" "The police took his evoltwin and threw him in the klink"

Sometimes, we feel like he deserves to be locked up, though.....especially when it comes to oil-related rants...

 

[samiam44]

Klink,

I haven't noticed that- but you are right, it's well documented in lubrication journals that wear is higher initially after an oil change. I always thought, maybe it was the filter element being completely clean took a while for the media to start providing some restriction. There is a partial size which doesn't effect wear much when it's very small, but the bigger stuff. Some of the worst engines I had the pleasure of repairing were running amsoil in the 90s. They all had the bypass filter and owners were very informative on how long the oil had been in the engines. They were not quite quarkerstate engines. But I must say some of those high pariffin engines which I rebuilt didn't have much wear- lots and lots of stuff.

 

[lowman]

Klink,

I haven't noticed that- but you are right, it's well documented in lubrication journal's that wear is higher initially after an oil change. .

Ive heard that one too..but what i never understood..is "how" that can be possible...and beeing "different"or "worse" to an average "startup" of the engine.This i think may vary from engine to engine...because of the different filter designs...cartridge vs insert and such...so to be fair..(i do not know for a fact)..but i struggle to find the relevance,or importance in that excact point..There is pretty much no difference in the lubrication conditions of the average startup,and an oilchange situation.There is still oilfilm in all bearing surfaces,and the filters are also filled up either manually,,or pretty much instant when starting it up.There may be more initial wear at startup of course...but i dont think it differs between the oilchange startup..and a regular startup.At least thats my two cents

 

[clarkz71]

Ive heard that one too..but what i never understood..is "how" that can be possible...and beeing "different"or "worse" to an average "startup" of the engine.This i think may vary from engine to engine...because of the different filter designs...cartridge vs insert and such...so to be fair..(i do not know for a fact)..but i struggle to find the relevance,or importance in that excact point..There is pretty much no difference in the lubrication conditions of the average startup,and an oilchange situation.There is still oilfilm in all bearing surfaces,and the filters are also filled up either manually,,or pretty much instant when starting it up.There may be more initial wear at startup of course...but i dont think it differs between the oilchange startup..and a regular startup.At least thats my two cents

When I was a dealer tech every oil change I did I disabled the fuel pump and cranked the engine until the oil pressure gauge needle moved up ensuring that the start up had full pressure.

This also prevented clatter from the chain tensioner on the M116 and 117 engines


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Klink]

When I was a dealer tech every oil change I did I disabled the fuel pump and cranked the engine until the oil pressure gauge needle moved up ensuring that the start up had full pressure.

This also prevented clatter from the chain tensioner on the M116 and 117 engines


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, a fantastic practice. For us, it was always shop policy to do so with any V8 engine prior to the 113. We usually accomplished this by unplugging the crankshaft position sensor at the EZL..

 

[lowman]

When I was a dealer tech every oil change I did I disabled the fuel pump and cranked the engine until the oil pressure gauge needle moved up ensuring that the start up had full pressure.

This also prevented clatter from the chain tensioner on the M116 and 117 engines


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

awesome.im not the only one then But the nerdy side of me..then thinks..that..IF this was a real issue...i reckon one should do this everytime you start the car also..but that does not happen..so i guess it cant be of any ,,or at least not a massive contributor to "engine failure related sort of thing"...leading to premature wear.I think if you experience mechanical engine failure...i would think that you have other parts of the engine not working as it supposed to.Say ..poor oilpump,,clogged oilchannels inside the engine..and such.

 

[clarkz71]

Yes, a fantastic practice. For us, it was always shop policy to do so with any V8 engine prior to the 113. We usually accomplished this by unplugging the crankshaft position sensor at the EZL..

Yes I also did this on cars with an EZL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gerryvz]

If you change the oil on a hot engine, there should be enough of a film of warm residual oil on the internals to provide enough lubrication for the 2-3 seconds after the engine starts up after it’s changed.

I do oil analysis after every change and have never had any serious issues with wear metals relating to something like this, across many engines.

And no, I don’t fill the oil filter, either. Ever tried to fill up the oil filter on an M103 or M104?!?

I’d venture to say there is probably less residual lubrication in an engine that has been sitting for days/weeks/month’s than in an engine that was just run and oil changes within 30-60 minutes.

 

[Stevester 500E]

For whatever this is worth, this m119 had 291k miles on it.
And look at how clean everything looks!
I was amazed.

 

[RicardoD]

He had the full maintenance log as if the car was Air Force One

guilty as charged

 

[samiam44]

So what oils are available with 229.5 spec which have a high amount of esters and poa base stock? Motul 8100 xmax has been discontinued. Looking for my next oil change.

 

[Christian_K]

So what oils are available with 229.5 spec which have a high amount of esters and poa base stock? Motul 8100 xmax has been discontinued. Looking for my next oil change.

I dont care to be honest what base stock and whatnot. If an oil gets the named approval 229.5 - it is a very good oil even for high-power/race engine like AMG. I remember a german oil company lately said that their current "partial synthetic" or "hydro crack" oils with the modern additive packages they use, are far better than the so called "full synthetic"/ POA based oils, that were hyped within the last 10-15 years... And i believe them. There are "full synthetic" oils that dont match/get the 229.5 approval, while many hydrocrack ones do.
229.5 is my reference and here in germany i choose 5W-40 as viscosity for our use and temperatures. My oil is "Meguin High-Condition 5W-40". We use it in 6 cars here in the family. On my M113 AMG 5.5Kompressor, The M272 3.0 in the W211 and the W210 M113 4.3, we have Assyst intervals, which uses the oil sensor in the oilpan. And together with the white fleece oilfilter for these 3 engines, we have intervalls as long as 20.000km before the Assyst tells it want an oilchange.
On the 500E, i change it every 2 years. Even on the AMG, i changed it after 2 years now, despite the fact that i only did about 1500km or so in the 2 years.

 

[speedy300dturbo]

FYI, Mobil is offering a $12 rebate on any 5-quart jug of Mobil 1. Purchases must be made by May 31. Walmart isn't on the list of "Participating Retailers" but I've never had an issue getting rebate checks from my Wally-world sourced M1.

https://mobiloil.com/en/promotion/mobil-promotions/17-off-motor-oil-march-may-2018

 

[gsxr]

I remember a german oil company lately said that their current "partial synthetic" or "hydro crack" oils with the modern additive packages they use, are far better than the so called "full synthetic"/ POA based oils, that were hyped within the last 10-15 years... And i believe them.

I don't believe them. They are trying to sell their product. There is pretty much no way any Group III oil is superior to a good Group IV/V other than lower price.

There are "full synthetic" oils that dont match/get the 229.5 approval, while many hydrocrack ones do. 229.5 is my reference ...

That is because an oil manufacturer (for example, Red Line) has to submit their specific oil to MB for testing, along with huge amounts of money, to get MB's formal approval. If a company doesn't expect to sell a LOT of oil to that specific market, they have no incentive to make that investment. So yes, there will be MANY excellent oils that are not on the MB spec sheets. Especially "botique" oils like Red Line or Amsoil.

 

[LWB250]

For what it's worth, I've used Mobil 1 0W-40 in all of the M119 powered cars I've owned and changed it at 5k intervals. Several of those cars had in excess of 250k on the clock, and were very clean inside. Even in the hottest times of the year here, with AC on and sitting at idle in 90F+ ambients oil pressure was a good 1.5 bar or better. On only one of those cars did I go to 15W-50 when I saw (summer) oil pressure drop close to 1.0 bar at hot idle. That was probably overkill, but I wanted to be safe. Oil change in the fall got it back on 0W-40.

Dan

 

[Bogeyman]

I ran across this the other day and wondered if it applies to our engines - oil too thick??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ngbn8eW8P4

[video=youtube;0ngbn8eW8P4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ngbn8eW8P4[/video]

 

[Klink]

I ran across this the other day and wondered if it applies to our engines - oil too thick??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ngbn8eW8P4

Well, yes and no. MB’s recommendations for viscosity have been very stable for 30 years now. None of our new engines specify these super thin oils like 0–20, etc. and again to emphasize, as others have stated but somehow people always seem to miss, it’s the high temperature “20“ part that makes it a “thin“ oil, not the low temperature “0” rating.

The one thing he stated that absolutely applies to ours, if not all engines is to follow the manufacturer recommendations for the viscosity.

One of the things that I remember with some hilarity is when our then Tampa dealer owner took on the then new Infiniti franchise. They were in our “old“ MB dealer building just next-door. Apparently, they did not at first have their own dedicated oil selection, they were simply using our recently vacated building’s tanks and getting whatever 15–40, 20-40, 20-50, we had in our tanks at the time of the move. As was common Japanese practice even back then, Nissan was specifying something much thinner than any of that. On the first cold snap, all of these Infinities were being towed in for “cranks/no start“. Some of them even had ruptured or blown off spin on oil filters...

Upon cranking, there was some resistance almost immediately followed by the engine starting and dying while producing an odd sound. If you tried cranking them up shortly afterwards, they sounded just like all the spark plugs were removed.
Apparently, the oil pressure relief valves were small enough that they could not control the engine oil pressure which climbed high enough to cause the lifters to travel to their end stops, thereby sticking all the valves open. If you let them sit long enough, they would go back to normal, but there were many free oil and filter changes done during some of those colder weeks. Turned out, we were not alone. Apparently, this happened to a number of Infiniti and Lexus dealers, as they were often franchises taken on by dealerships that already served European high-line cars. It did not happen to the few Toyota and Nissan dealerships that ponied up enough to take on their new luxury nameplates. Funny enough, we HAD a sister Nissan dealer just downtown. I'm sure they were already quite familliar with this syndrome. We weren't...
It’s simple. The people that designed and produced your car, whatever it is, have no interest in you having engine trouble or premature wear. At least for use on public roads, can’t go wrong putting in it what the people that designed it told you belongs in it...

 

[samiam44]

I'm going to use the 5w40, motul. Looks like it barely qualifies as a 5w40. Very close to 5w30. Engine has been really quiet over the total 9000 0w30.

 

[samiam44]

Talking about my om648, not my m119. I do notice when racing my 500e, idle oil pressure drops.
I wonder if red line cv joint grease is in line when I reboot my new axles? I think the original grease is leaded, moly etc.

 

[gsxr]

Well, yes and no. MB’s recommendations for viscosity have been very stable for 30 years now. None of our new engines specify these super thin oils like 0–20, etc. and again to emphasize, as others have stated but somehow people always seem to miss, it’s the high temperature “20“ part that makes it a “thin“ oil, not the low temperature “0” rating. ...

The one thing he stated that absolutely applies to ours, if not all engines is to follow the manufacturer recommendations for the viscosity.

It’s simple. ... At least for use on public roads, can’t go wrong putting in it what the people that designed it told you belongs in it...

^^^ This. If in doubt, just use what MB officially specifies. Or at a MINIMUM, use the viscosity MB specifies!! Klink, that Inifiti story was pure awesomesauce.

 

[Christian_K]

I don't believe them. They are trying to sell their product. There is pretty much no way any Group III oil is superior to a good Group IV/V other than lower price.

Just one example from the brand i use to show you its different:
The oil i use currently http://www.meguin.de/meguin/produktdb.nsf/id/me_3199.html?Open&land=ME has the 229.5 approval and its "hydrocracked" but it has the most modern additive package.
The "full synthehtic" one in same viscosity they also offer, is only recommended for 229.3 approval... http://www.meguin.de/meguin/produktdb.nsf/id/me_4808.html?OpenDocument&land=ME
Why do you think is that? I think its the additive package - there was the most innovation in the last 10 years. So today you can use a on paper "inferior" base oil, put a good additive package in it and it will receive the highest approvals.

That is because an oil manufacturer (for example, Red Line) has to submit their specific oil to MB for testing, along with huge amounts of money, to get MB's formal approval. If a company doesn't expect to sell a LOT of oil to that specific market, they have no incentive to make that investment. So yes, there will be MANY excellent oils that are not on the MB spec sheets. Especially "botique" oils like Red Line or Amsoil.

229.5 in standard visosities like "5W-40" or "0W-40" is a HUGE Market here in germany/europe. I rather believe that most oils simply do not achieve the named MB approval 229.5 - its the toughest in the engine oil business im aware of. Even ARAL once stated it in their Oil-Fibel online.

 

[gsxr]

Sure, you can have a great additive package in a mediocre base stock, and it will perform just fine for >99% of applications, in normal service, when changed at appropriate intervals.

This does not make it the best oil for every application / usage.

 

[gerryvz]

That is some *damn* good trolling, Christian! Keep it up!

When it comes to GSXR, oil has become the new "mushroom"

Oel > champignon

 

[gsxr]

That is some *damn* good trolling, Christian! Keep it up!

 

[Christian_K]

That is some *damn* good trolling, Christian! Keep it up!

When it comes to GSXR, oil has become the new "mushroom"

Oel > champignon

Dunno what you mean. Discussion is vital ;-)

 

[Duh_Vinci]

While I've read through most of these pages, I don't believe I've seen this particular citing, http://pqiamerica.com/HDEO_Sample_Summary_Dec_2016.html that lists all the chemical composition/elemental analysis for most oils they tested... Considering that few companies actually list all the levels, fun read...

Regards,
D

 

[maestro500e]

What about el motor oil LIQUI MOLY 5W40?

 

[maestro500e]

ok 5W40 also