Rear wheel carrier joint bushing

[mistermiata]

Ok so after further review, my rear end creak/groan/squeak seems to be coming from the drivers side rear shock....I disconnected the shock lower mounting bolt, then bounced the rear end (go ahead Klink I know you want to chime in here), and no more squeak.

My question is, do these special E500 shocks need to be replaced in pairs like "normal" shocks? Since they are so expensive (relative to "normal" shocks), I would like to do just the defective one if possible.

Thanks Guys!

 

[Klink]

Ok so after further review, my rear end creak/groan/squeak seems to be coming from the drivers side rear shock....I disconnected the shock lower mounting bolt, then bounced the rear end (go ahead Klink I know you want to chime in here), and no more squeak.

My question is, do these special E500 shocks need to be replaced in pairs like "normal" shocks? Since they are so expensive (relative to "normal" shocks), I would like to do just the defective one if possible.

Thanks Guys!

You can replace only the noisy one with no issues whatsoever if you're replacing OEM with OEM, IMO. As far as the damping characteristics go, those things are essentially wear proof. Wish we could say the same for that bottom bushing that is probably the source of your noise. Keep your old one, we may have a fix for those one of these years...

 

[8899]

Keep your old one, we may have a fix for those one of these years...

Someone on here did an R&R on that bushing....sadly though he has gone MIA on us.

 

[clarkz71]

No problem, that's basically just a hydraulic ram for ride height, there is no damping.

The gas sphere's are where the damping takes place.
They are also called air cells or spring load accumulator in the EPC

Standard shock like the front struts or rear 034 shocks should be done in pairs.

 

[Klink]

Someone on here did an R&R on that bushing....sadly though he has gone MIA on us.

I have tried to rattle his cage a time or two to no avail. He said he got the bushing from some BMW I have not shown that to a BMW person yet that knew what that was, and I've been far too busy to track it down. It would probably pay me to do so though as I am going to need them sooner rather than later and I probably have six of these things for 036s laying around that need bushings. At least four more for 140s also.

 

[gsxr]

See post #17 at this thread:
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5556

I'd replace both rear shocks and sell the "good" used one on the forum. At least inspect the stop buffer on both the old ones to check condition. If the "quiet" one has a disintegrated buffer, replace it along with the noisy one.

 

[Klink]

See post #17 at this thread:
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5556

I'd replace both rear shocks and sell the "good" used one on the forum. At least inspect the stop buffer on both the old ones to check condition. If the "quiet" one has a disintegrated buffer, replace it along with the noisy one.

Thanks for the reminder on that one, gixxer!

 

[mistermiata]

Dave....can the buffer be checked with the shock still on the car?

 

[gsxr]

Dave....can the buffer be checked with the shock still on the car?

Yes... it's a mild PITA, but possible. You need to press the circlip down and slide the accordion boot up so you can inspect the buffer. The difficult part is getting that circlip back in place without the boot all twisted.

 

[8899]

Original part# was 201-352-0027

Superseded to 220-352-0227, then the 204 352 0027

AutohausAZ lists the 220-352-0227 part from Lemfoerder for $27.20/each. Are the Lemfoerders as good as the MB OE part (204-352-0227) available for $39.00/each?

 

[gsxr]

I buy Lemfoerders for my car... YMMV, etc...

 

[gerryvz]

Lemfs are just fine - they are what I installed when I did this job last year.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[clarkz71]

AutohausAZ lists the 220-352-0227 part from Lemfoerder for $27.20/each. Are the Lemfoerders as good as the MB OE part (204-352-0227) available for $39.00/each?

I think Lionel is at $36 on those, but if you have a $75+ order for free shipping from AZ, Lemfoerder is just as good

 

[DarkStar]

Any pros /cons with the different tools ? Baum or Sir ?

Also curious if removing vs bending shield is an option? I think I need to redo everything in the rear subframe

 

[gerryvz]

Both are fine tools. Just get the one that you find is cheaper. I was very happy with the Baum unit.

 

[SG-Motorsports]

I also have this tool available, same as the Baum tool, just has my name on it instead of Baum. In my opinion it's much better than the Sir Tool version since it has a face bearing to handle the load which makes the job easier and the tool last longer. Here is a link to one of my listings:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/351137411614?item=351137411614&viewitem=&vxp=mtr

Feel free to PM me if interested.

 

[samiam44]

Either tool works fine. I have used the sir tool maybe 30 time over the years- still works great.

Get which ever is cheapest.

 

[cargen]

Rear left suspension of my 500 makes a squeaking sound when there is a force being applied laterally(sideways) instead of an up and down motion. Could this be a symptom of this part?

 

[Kyiv]

Rear joint carrier bushing #204 352 00 27 by Lemforder is still made in Germany as of 11.19.2019

 

[gerryvz]

I think that part number has been superseded to a 230 part number, no? The latest is in the recent suspension parts thread.

 

[gsxr]

I think that part number has been superseded to a 230 part number, no? The latest is in the recent suspension parts thread.

Other way around... the 230- number was superceded to the 204, which AFAICT is the latest:

1954-2023 Mercedes-Benz Supporting Joint 204-352-00-27 | MB OEM Parts

1954-2023 Mercedes-Benz part # 204-352-00-27 - Supporting Joint

www.mboemparts.com

 

[geraniumtr]

Folks: Just an anecdotal comment regarding the Lemforder supporting joint. I had the control arm apart recently on my E320 to replace some very rusty springs ( stopped midway due to concern over the spring compressor tool I bought) and the Lemforder joint had noticeable play after only 60 K miles. The joint on the left wheel was factory with absolutely no play also at 60K miles.
I pulled the Lemforder joint and put in a factory one. Actually did both sides. Just an FYI.

Regards,

Peter Weissman

 

[Kyiv]

So, an invalid needs help. I got similar to this tool from Peter (@geraniumtr), except the brass-colored part. I have the long bolt and 2 pieces only.


I was able to drive out old bushing with out any issues. The smaller piece was driving out old bushing towards the rear of the car, into the larger piece. Now I can't figure out to drive the new bushing in. As I understand it, the smaller piece is always the driver, pushing against the larger piece, but I can't figure out correct combination.

1. new bushing is pushed in from the rear of car towards the center, correct?
2. If yes, then the larger piece should be behind the bushing nest (towards the center of the car), but mine won't fit in there

What am I doing wrong? Thanks

 

[gsxr]

Installation uses the same process. Place the new bushing on the forward side of the car, with the small piece pulling on it, and press it towards the rear of the car. Be careful not to pull it too far in or you get to repeat the job.

 

[Kyiv]

Dave, thanks. Needed that reassurance on the correct way. Everything worked out. It's an uphill battle for a zero-experience person, but I managed it

 

[Kyiv]

@gsxr, Dave, Peter Weissman told me that before tightening the nut on the bolt that connects rear lower control arm to the joint support bushing, drive axel has to be parallel to horizontal axis of the car's body. He says it's very important. I found a document with a procedure to replace joint support on your website and it doesn't mention this at all. It took me some time yesterday to line up control arm bolt holes with wheel created joint support (bushing) hole, but moving some of the car's weight on to a control arm with a jack stands under it, and maneuverit it and a wheel carrier. Took me several attempts

Should go back and make sure drive axel is indeed in parallel with car's horizontal axis? Thanks

 

[gsxr]

OOOPS. Clarifying the above... the drive axle should be horizontal when tightening any of the bushings that are bonded rubber, on the 5 rear links.

The only 2 which are exceptions are the tie rod outer end, and the outer wheel support joint... these are greased spherical joints that will rotate freely, and do not need to be tightened with the drive axle horizontal. But yes, for the rubber bushings, it is very important to not tighten them with the suspension extended.

 

[Kyiv]

well, then all is good!

 

[Kyiv]

@gsxr, so the 2nd side should have been a walk in the park for me, but the tool's bolt severed in half. Is it ok to hammer the new bushing in?

 

[gsxr]

@gsxr, so the 2nd side should have been a walk in the park for me, but the tool's bolt severed in half. Is it ok to hammer the new bushing in?

Oh no.

I would not hammer the new joint in place. Try replacing the damaged center shaft with a generic item from the hardware store, or try using a C-clamp or other similar method.

When exactly did the center shaft break? Did the new joint bind as it was starting to slide into place?

 

[Kyiv]

Dave, what do you mean by "bind"? The joint is a ball type, correct? So it' supposed to rotate?

 

[Efraim]

A lot has been discussed and wrote about outer end of rear lower control arm. What about the other end, inner bushing (#24 in the attached picture)? What is your opinion about it? Does it wear and is it wise to replace together outer mounting replacement?

Worn outer bushing do influence to driving stability and quality, how do the inner one?

Thanks

 

[gerryvz]

I don’t think the inner bushing takes the stress that the outer ones do on the rear suspension. The inner bushing is tightened with the car’s suspension loaded, and it doesn’t pivot much as compared to the rear outers. It’s limited travel and angles that it moves. I know that in my case, I replaced the rear lower control arms with modified new factory parts (from RDMTek) and it had a new bushing installed at the manufacturer, so replacing it was a non-issue. I did look at the bushing on my original LCA and it was fine, and could have gone for quite a long time into the future.

 

[gsxr]

A lot has been discussed and wrote about outer end of rear lower control arm. What about the other end, inner bushing (#24 in the attached picture)? What is your opinion about it? Does it wear and is it wise to replace together outer mounting replacement?

The outer support joint is a metal, greased, spherical joint. These have a high failure rate.

The inner LCA bushing is bonded rubber. Totally different design. I've never seen one with significant wear, ever. If doing a complete subframe rebuild, just buy a new LCA which includes the new bushing pre-installed. The LCA isn't expensive and it isn't worth the hassle of trying to R&R the bushing separately.

 

[JC220]

I do replace these inner bushings. Havent found a bad one yet with play but the rubber does age crack and generally get nasty.

Plus they wouldn't survive Hot Dip Galvanising



Yes these parts have a life expectancy of 80 - 100 years now!! (140 Microns hot dip)

 

[Efraim]

Cool. Zinc bath is sure a reason to replace the bushings!

I appreciate opinnions above and may leave the inner bushing untouched.

 

[Sebastopol]

Installation uses the same process. Place the new bushing on the forward side of the car, with the small piece pulling on it, and press it towards the rear of the car. Be careful not to pull it too far in or you get to repeat the job.



View attachment 91025

Hi Dave - I'm about to replace my supporting joints on my 300TE, the instructions 35-116, step 6 shows the new joint is pulled in from the rear into the carrier joint or is just over analysis and the joint can be pulled in from either side?
I also had a question on the brake shield; why not remove the three bolts which hold the shield, allowing the shield to rotate away from the joint bolts?

thx as always for the advice, Brian

 

[gsxr]

Hi Dave - I'm about to replace my supporting joints on my 300TE, the instructions 35-116, step 6 shows the new joint is pulled in from the rear into the carrier joint or is just over analysis and the joint can be pulled in from either side?

The bushings can be pressed in/out in either direction, however the tool you use may only fit in 1 direction. I have the OE factory tool and IIRC, it won't clear if you try to pull the new bushing in from the rear of the car towards the front.

Additional photos at this link.

I also had a question on the brake shield; why not remove the three bolts which hold the shield, allowing the shield to rotate away from the joint bolts?

You have to disassemble the parking brake mechanism & springs to attempt rotating the shield, and I don't know if it will rotate enough to make room for the bushing & tool. Don't know if anyone else has tried either?

 

[JC220]

You have to disassemble the parking brake mechanism & springs to attempt rotating the shield, and I don't know if it will rotate enough to make room for the bushing & tool. Don't know if anyone else has tried eitheither

I have done this before and rotated moved out the brake shield. It's a fair bit of extra work to do that however probably just bend and bend back the shield if needed instead.

 

[emerydc8]

I pulled the old bushings out and pressed the new ones in from rear too. The brake shield was easy to bend and get back into position with no problem using a large vice grip. The hardest part of the job for me was aligning the holes for the long bolt to fit through the bushings. HOW-TO: Rear Lower Control Arm & Wheel Carrier Joint Bushing Replacement | "HOW-TO" Tutorial Articles

 

[gsxr]

The hardest part of the job for me was aligning the holes for the long bolt to fit through the bushings.

+1. I agree, this is the worst part of the job, and if you're lucky you end up damaging the new seal on the new bushing and repeating the job. Don't ask how I know.

 

[46Dodge]

Hello everyone. I need to do this for my passenger side rear. Can anyone tell me the current part number and who should I buy it from?

 

[46Dodge]

Here is the 500E almost back to perfection...

 

[emerydc8]

Joint, Wheel Hub - 1985-2020 Mercedes-Benz (204-352-00-27) | Get Mercedes Parts

1985-2020 Mercedes-Benz Joint, Wheel Hub 204-352-00-27

www.getmercedesparts.com

 

[JC220]

Don't use Meyle parts at all except maybe the odd HD item they have like w124 Strut top mounts but this is interesting:

 

[emerydc8]

Don't use Meyle parts at all except maybe the odd HD item they have like w124 Strut top mounts but this is interesting:

I like the advice of @gerryvz -- for rubber parts, always use factory, if available.

 

[gerryvz]

For this specific part, you want to go with a factory part, or if aftermarket, Lemforder (but only if confirmed made in Germany). However, the factory part is not expensive, so I would go with that.

It is not even an iron-clad guarantee that MB factory rubber is superior anymore, with more and more MB OE parts being made in non-Western European locales.

 

[46Dodge]

Thank you everyone..Great forum! I ordered two MB parts, so hopefully they are the same part number for both sides.