Roughly $4,200 plus a $1,200 core charge (the latter is refundable). Add another $1k for removal and install.
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I’m considering trying out Transmeister
- Thread starter Rain
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You mean you’re not going to pull the transmission you have so you can fix ONLY the reverse, and perhaps do an external reseal?
As was said by JC and liviu, hundreds of dollars cost vs. thousands of dollars.
I personally think you are smart to get a factory reman. It’s more than double the $2K cost of a Sun Valley unit, but no question the rebuild will be better. And MB will have a two year warranty.
I’m a big believer in the “while in there” approach that you also advocate with your cars. Especially since someone else is working on my car, I believe it’s the most economical way in the long run, as remove and replace in the same area ads up dramatically over time. Learned that the hard way with my door cards where I first replaced the interior armrests, then decided to replace the door pockets and then the door inserts.......piecemealed out because of the good old NLA situation. Should have just waited until I collect ALL the parts and then do one remove and replace session. Never again shall my impatience get the better of me on this car. So yeah, in my book, new gearbox and done. Might be a different story for those who can and want to do all their own wrenching and for those who only intend to keep their cars for a couple of years.
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That price doesn't seem unreasonable at all. A few years ago I had my sport beetle's manual gearbox rebuilt by a place that specializes in sport-beetle gearboxes. I had all the gears replaced with new non-OE gears and stainless steel synchros installed. The price of rebuilding my transmission was $13,600..... which was considered a fair price at the time. This price does not include the cost of removing the trans from the car.
Accordingly, $4,200 for an MB-rebuilt 722.3 seems A-OK.
Can I get hired to carry your briefcase for you? My palms don't sweat...
Knowing what I know now and having the experience that I've had, that's what would of I could go back in time
You are taking my words and twisting them (surprise!)You mean you’re not going to pull the transmission you have so you can fix ONLY the reverse, and perhaps do an external reseal?
As was said by JC and liviu, hundreds of dollars cost vs. thousands of dollars.
When I say that It goes without saying FULL tear down, inspection and re-seal throughout the transmission. I didn't think I had to explicitly state that too but there you go. Fact is from hands on experience it's usually only reverse that requires replacement everything else will normally be in factory spec.
As you guys have already stumbled through the realisation - rebuilders DO NOT fit all new parts. And since they handle many transmissons each day do you think they care about yours? Nope. I care about mine and nothing is rushed. By doing this work myself I can control and know EXACTLY what was done inside. Nothing wrong with that but apparently it stokes ridicule on here from people who never rebuilt a trans.....
A MONTH to rebuild? Six weeks? Give me a break. Comments like that only enhance the mis-understanding of the task at hand on here.
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Hahahha don’t get me wrong. That trans was so expensive that it made my brain and bones hurt!!!
But still it is nothing for someone like @TimL...... this is someone who is gambling on steering gear boxes and collecting back glass for fun!!!
... or nothing for folks like @JAB12 who PPI-ed Sixty-Five Hundred cars before buying his 6.0 liter car!
That’s all for the birds. When I grow up, I want to have a NOS seat cushion and some NEEZ wheelsBut still it is nothing for someone like @TimL...... this is someone who is gambling on steering gear boxes and collecting back glass for fun!!!
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Exactly I think only a new 722.3 MB transmission is the only way forward here and not remans. (MB or otherwise)
Don't forget about the torque Converter too, whilst in there.
Indeed whilst in there you must also renew the rear crank seal, crank seal plate, all TTY bolts, shifter bushings, centre support bearing, transmission blanket, mounts, NSS, crank sensor, flex disc and starter motor.
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Hmmm. Interesting that some members appear wholly comfortable with the idea of not keeping the original transmission numbers matching.
Given that for example my 1990 300E-24 restored is worth about £4k currently and my 1992 500E is worth about £30k currently and rising I believe originality is imperative on a collectable & rare car such as the E500E. (300E not so much at all) My 500E is numbers matching and will always stay that way.
If I were buying another 500E you bet your A I'd have it on a lift to check numbers and If there was a mis-match the vendor would be informed and my offer reduced unless they have retained the original trans and supply with the car. Call me crazy but that's the way I see it. Indeed the
I am torn on the "numbers matching" things vs. non numbers-matching. To me personally, I'd always prefer to keep my car numbers-matching, which is why I've augured toward doing the rebuild myself when the time comes, and I've acquired most of the parts to do so. It's not that the E500E is the same in rarity as a Gullwing or 540K, nor is my car in collector condition, but I have always been desirous to keep its major components the originals, if at all possible.
It was said in jest, hence the smilie.
Well, you DID say that it's quite often that when the reverse goes out, the forward gears, friction discs, and so forth are often in excellent condition. The inference that any reasonable person would take away from that statement, is that if something is inspected and found to be in great condition, it doesn't need to be changed or messed with. This was made with people also knowing your mechanical and technical abilities to zip a transmission out and repair it and re-install it in mere hours. So yes, explicit is a good idea.
I'm not sure where the ridicule from people who have never built a transmission comes from. Speaking for myself only, I certainly didn't ridicule anyone -- in fact I "explicitly" agreed with you in a later post that doing the job ones-self is the most preferable option, all things considered. I didn't see anyone else ridiculing those who have rebuilt their own transmissions. I think the prevailing attitude of average punters here of said "transmission 2%ers" is much more one of admiration, amazement and respect, not derision. And of course, that the "transmission 2%ers" will create a HOW-TO on how to rebuild a transmission comprehensively
The @gsxr, in particular, is waiting for that HOW-TO with bated breath!
Unfortunately, as @TimL's and the @Jlaa's recent testimony shows, as well as others in the thread like myself (E320 wagon with Sun Valley transmission back in 2014), @Glen and @nocfn and @TerryA, rebuilding a transmission is not an option (for whatever reason) for 98% of the forum members. As I earlier said, the vast majority of folks — even highly technically savvy folks — here will pay to have this work done.
The main point is that we have options, and they span the gamut from relatively cheap, to modestly expensive, to doing the work ones-self for the cost of the parts purchased.
You didn't see my
It was said in jest, hence the smilie.Well, you DID say that it's quite often that when the reverse goes out, the forward gears, friction discs, and so forth are often in excellent condition. The inference that any reasonable person would take away from that statement, is that if something is inspected and found to be in great condition, it doesn't need to be changed or messed with. This was made with people also knowing your mechanical and technical abilities to zip a transmission out and repair it and re-install it in mere hours. So yes, explicit is a good idea.
I'm not sure where the ridicule from people who have never built a transmission comes from. Speaking for myself only, I certainly didn't ridicule anyone -- in fact I "explicitly" agreed with you in a later post that doing the job ones-self is the most preferable option, all things considered. I didn't see anyone else ridiculing those who have rebuilt their own transmissions. I think the prevailing attitude of average punters here of said "transmission 2%ers" is much more one of admiration, amazement and respect, not derision. And of course, that the "transmission 2%ers" will create a HOW-TO on how to rebuild a transmission comprehensively
The @gsxr, in particular, is waiting for that HOW-TO with bated breath!Unfortunately, as @TimL's and the @Jlaa's recent testimony shows, as well as others in the thread like myself (E320 wagon with Sun Valley transmission back in 2014), @Glen and @nocfn and @TerryA, rebuilding a transmission is not an option (for whatever reason) for 98% of the forum members. As I earlier said, the vast majority of folks — even highly technically savvy folks — here will pay to have this work done.
The main point is that we have options, and they span the gamut from relatively cheap, to modestly expensive, to doing the work ones-self for the cost of the parts purchased.
I did mention liviu's time frame, which he said was six weeks. It's very likely that for me personally, six weeks is an under-estimation of the amount of time it would take me to do a similar rebuild job. Mainly because I'd forget to order some parts along the way, or find plenty of other issues "while I'm in there" to remedy. Because, scope creep.
This price is a bit higher than it used to be, when it was in the $3-4K range. Probably risen with inflation and such.
That said, MB factory rebuilt transmission prices have always been pretty reasonable for what you get ... in effect a factory new transmission with all new "wear" friction components (for both reverse and forward gears
) I remember that our member Clark Vader, a former MB dealership tech, installed a rebuilt factory transmission in his .034, and discussed it here on the forum and sung the praises fo the factory rebuilds.The fact that MB still offers rebuilds is pretty amazing (as well as offering all of the individual spare parts for the 2%ers out there around the world).
Where does one get a non-reman, new 722.3 transmission? Do you have a source for these you've been holding back on us about ?!?
I do know for sure that the "reman" places like Sun Valley do provide rebuilt torque converters with their remans. They actually showed me when I visited what they do to refurbish these TCs. It's not trivial!
Transmission blankets for the .036 are NLA, and have been for the past couple or few years. I have a NOS example I bought from the @IslandMon, and offered it to anyone who has the interest/willingness to reproduce a replica, but no one took me up on the offer. So I'll likely use it when I pull my own transmission out.
I am assuming you are making reference to the six weeks I said it took me. If so, everybody should keep in mind that my car was not operational anyway, so I had NO reason to rush (eventually that car never ran and I ended up donating the body for scrap metal few years later). In addition, an automatic transmission was a totally unknown territory for me (it still is, though I feel more confident now), so I took my time in doing it and I also had to stop at times and order parts I did not know I will need.
Therefore, my case should NOT be considered a general rule. In fact is exactly the opposite and I had no intention to enhance the misunderstanding of the task at hand here. If I did, I apologize., it was w/o intention.
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Ahah starting to see it are we?Where does one get a non-reman, new 722.3 transmission? Do you have a source for these you've been holding back on us about ?!?
I do know for sure that the "reman" places like Sun Valley do provide rebuilt torque converters with their remans. They actually showed me when I visited what they do to refurbish these TCs. It's not trivial!
Transmission blankets for the .036 are NLA, and have been for the past couple or few years. I have a NOS example I bought from the @IslandMon, and offered it to anyone who has the interest/willingness to reproduce a replica, but no one took me up on the offer. So I'll likely use it when I pull my own transmission out.
Apologies but my posts #57, 60 & 61 were primarily chain yanks (feigned shock/ anger) and should not be taken literally
I see no issue with someone not wanting to tackle a transmission rebuild themselves for a multitude of reasons.
If that were the case then I think a reasonable scenario would be to find a rebuilder within driving range and bring the car to them where they would perform both rebuild and R&R of transmission. With warranty on the rebuild and labour - if there is such a thing... and have your original transmission rebuilt.
If your reverse is delayed I'm not sure I'd want to leave it like that for years. A stitch in time saves 9, which in the case of transmissions means the less potential for junk the system the better.
On a DIY note again, kidding aside I will list what I have done in the past timescale wise:
Research ahead of time by fully reading ATSG and similar rebuild manuals for tips and common failures. In particular note any updated / revised parts you will want to replace. (Such as Sprags in 722.6's)
Remove transmission on a Saturday.
Tear down and inspect transmission the next day for a couple hours and take stock of what clutches, steels, clips or bands are in need of replacement. Write down clutch pack clearances and retain for reference - this is also required if you need to alter any spring clip clearances. Take lots of photos during the process and bag / tag any bolts etc. Wrap all up in clean film wrap for safe storage.
Order parts and seal kit on the Monday along with Torque Converter (I mail order and lose core refund since it would cost more for me to turn mine in postage wise)
Parts will take about a week so the following weekend (or two) plan on a full Saturday for rebuild.
Pre-soak any new clutches in ATF.
Day comes, unwrap and clean everything (Split valve body if you wish) and carefully re-assemble paying 100% attention to every step in the manual, taking photos and triple checking your work as you go. (Generally my transmission parts came out squeaky clean so required little to no prep) By evening you should have a freshly assembled 722.3 you can be proud of
If that were the case then I think a reasonable scenario would be to find a rebuilder within driving range and bring the car to them where they would perform both rebuild and R&R of transmission. With warranty on the rebuild and labour - if there is such a thing... and have your original transmission rebuilt.
I am torn on the "numbers matching" things vs. non numbers-matching. To me personally, I'd always prefer to keep my car numbers-matching, which is why I've augured toward doing the rebuild myself when the time comes, and I've acquired most of the parts to do so. It's not that the E500E is the same in rarity as a Gullwing or 540K, nor is my car in collector condition, but I have always been desirous to keep its major components the originals, if at all possible.
You didn't see my
Well, you DID say that it's quite often that when the reverse goes out, the forward gears, friction discs, and so forth are often in excellent condition. The inference that any reasonable person would take away from that statement, is that if something is inspected and found to be in great condition, it doesn't need to be changed or messed with. This was made with people also knowing your mechanical and technical abilities to zip a transmission out and repair it and re-install it in mere hours. So yes, explicit is a good idea.
I'm not sure where the ridicule from people who have never built a transmission comes from. Speaking for myself only, I certainly didn't ridicule anyone -- in fact I "explicitly" agreed with you in a later post that doing the job ones-self is the most preferable option, all things considered. I didn't see anyone else ridiculing those who have rebuilt their own transmissions. I think the prevailing attitude of average punters here of said "transmission 2%ers" is much more one of admiration, amazement and respect, not derision. And of course, that the "transmission 2%ers" will create a HOW-TO on how to rebuild a transmission comprehensively
Unfortunately, as @TimL's and the @Jlaa's recent testimony shows, as well as others in the thread like myself (E320 wagon with Sun Valley transmission back in 2014), @Glen and @nocfn and @TerryA, rebuilding a transmission is not an option (for whatever reason) for 98% of the forum members. As I earlier said, the vast majority of folks — even highly technically savvy folks — here will pay to have this work done.
The main point is that we have options, and they span the gamut from relatively cheap, to modestly expensive, to doing the work ones-self for the cost of the parts purchased.
I did mention liviu's time frame, which he said was six weeks. It's very likely that for me personally, six weeks is an under-estimation of the amount of time it would take me to do a similar rebuild job. Mainly because I'd forget to order some parts along the way, or find plenty of other issues "while I'm in there" to remedy. Because, scope creep.
A How- To of course may inspire some and whilst I'd like to provide same myself (in addition to the re-seal thread already done) it would most likely be years until I'm working on a 722.3 again. Mine are all performing very well with no delays or other issues at the moment. It is likely other members so inclined would get to it before me.
If your reverse is delayed I'm not sure I'd want to leave it like that for years. A stitch in time saves 9, which in the case of transmissions means the less potential for junk the system the better.
On a DIY note again, kidding aside I will list what I have done in the past timescale wise:
Research ahead of time by fully reading ATSG and similar rebuild manuals for tips and common failures. In particular note any updated / revised parts you will want to replace. (Such as Sprags in 722.6's)
Remove transmission on a Saturday.
Tear down and inspect transmission the next day for a couple hours and take stock of what clutches, steels, clips or bands are in need of replacement. Write down clutch pack clearances and retain for reference - this is also required if you need to alter any spring clip clearances. Take lots of photos during the process and bag / tag any bolts etc. Wrap all up in clean film wrap for safe storage.
Order parts and seal kit on the Monday along with Torque Converter (I mail order and lose core refund since it would cost more for me to turn mine in postage wise)
Parts will take about a week so the following weekend (or two) plan on a full Saturday for rebuild.
Pre-soak any new clutches in ATF.
Day comes, unwrap and clean everything (Split valve body if you wish) and carefully re-assemble paying 100% attention to every step in the manual, taking photos and triple checking your work as you go. (Generally my transmission parts came out squeaky clean so required little to no prep) By evening you should have a freshly assembled 722.3 you can be proud of
On a side note I look for scrap or customer return MB transmissons at local breakers yards. Usually £20 each. (Usually also little wrong with them too eg bad conductor plate in a 722.6)
I pull all useful parts and store them in clean sealed parts bins for future use. Cheap insurance against NLA parts
I pull all useful parts and store them in clean sealed parts bins for future use. Cheap insurance against NLA parts
That reminds me. ~10 years ago when visiting Schmid to pick up a 722.3, someone had a few minutes to chat with the tech who was doing the rebuild work. Asked how long it takes, he replied "About 4-5 hours total". Granted, that's from the guy who does these literally every day. And it also gives you an idea of why some of the results might be, ahem, sub-optimal. Sun Valley dyno-tests their transmissions after the rebuild, I don't know if Schmid does.
At an absolute minimum, remove all of the side covers on the valve body (one at a time) to inspect every spring and piston. It's not uncommon to find broken springs, which will cause even a perfect rebuilt transmission to have shift problems. Very few springs/pistons are available new, so if any are broken, a used donor VB is needed to borrow parts from.
Also, as I described in other posts, a perfect transmission can shift absolutely terribly with a defective valvebody. I don't know what the major rebuilders (Sun Valley, Schmid, etc) normally do with 722.x mechanical VB's. Do they remove the side plates for cleaning & inspection? Split the VB halves? Rinse it in solvent and call it good? I have no idea.
None of this valve body work and inspection should really be necessary when pulling a transmission and re-installing it, solely to remedy a failed reverse gear and perform an external re-seal.
Correct. If the trans is shifting normally, there's no need to mess with the VB if the reason for the work is a re-seal / reverse clutch replacement.
My point was that people should inquire about what exactly a shop does during a rebuild, as omitting a VB inspection would be a bad thing, particularly if the shop does not dyno-test afterwards to run the trans through all upshifts/downshifts.
Ahah starting to see it are we?
Apologies but my posts #57, 60 & 61 were primarily chain yanks (feigned shock/ anger) and should not be taken literally
Ahah starting to see it are we?
Apologies but my post #70 was primarily a chain yank (feigned shock/ anger) and should not be taken literally
That reminds me. ~10 years ago when visiting Schmid to pick up a 722.3, someone had a few minutes to chat with the tech who was doing the rebuild work. Asked how long it takes, he replied "About 4-5 hours total". Granted, that's from the guy who does these literally every day. And it also gives you an idea of why some of the results might be, ahem, sub-optimal. Sun Valley dyno-tests their transmissions after the rebuild, I don't know if Schmid does.
At an absolute minimum, remove all of the side covers on the valve body (one at a time) to inspect every spring and piston. It's not uncommon to find broken springs, which will cause even a perfect rebuilt transmission to have shift problems. Very few springs/pistons are available new, so if any are broken, a used donor VB is needed to borrow parts from.
Also, as I described in other posts, a perfect transmission can shift absolutely terribly with a defective valvebody. I don't know what the major rebuilders (Sun Valley, Schmid, etc) normally do with 722.x mechanical VB's. Do they remove the side plates for cleaning & inspection? Split the VB halves? Rinse it in solvent and call it good? I have no idea.
In a professional shop with all tools and sundries to hand I would agree with that 4 - 5 Hour estimate yes.
(Its the magic fairy dust sprinkle that takes up most of the circa 2.5k)
Joe, I'm sure all of us would love to get a video tour of your how your garage is organized. Maybe a several minutes long video some time?
my transmission was rebuilt by Schmid a few years back,never worked correctly since.i just live with it.when it goes from 2nd to 3rd it goes back to 2nd then 3rd again.
You should remove the transmission and ship it to JC220. I'm sure he'll make short work of making it work correctly again !!
Based on my personal experience, at this point you're ONLY 2 rebuilds away from a more or less satisfactory result
Sorry for my morbid humor
What was the original complaint? Reverse delay?
You place an emphasis on matching numbers and I don’t. Whatever floats the respective boats.
Final minutes of the final Soccer World Cup game. Northern Ireland - 3 : 2 - USA. I hope this goes into overtime, with penalty kicks at the end
Maybe if I only allowed SV to repair the rear gear issue, I would have been set back in 2015.
yes reverse delay was the issue.took a few seconds at the begining then got worse to the point where it never engaged anymore.
I'm absolutely serious, what you did there is this, with Gerry being the goalie
Sun Valley charges 1750. for the trans IIAC. Where is the other 2 grand or so going?
I think that was factoring in paying a shop to do the work, plus fluids & whatnot... the $3k-$5k number may have included the Sin Valley trans; not added on top of the trans cost.
I was speaking with GSXR and he suggested I ask in the forum- I have a rebuilt 722.3 W4A 040. I ran the trans number and it's from a 560SEL (W126) but it's for my 95 S420 (W140).
Any ideas if this is a plug and play trans, does the converter need swapping or any other parts for that matter?
Any ideas if this is a plug and play trans, does the converter need swapping or any other parts for that matter?
My reverse (722.5 box) went completely but only when warm. No problem cold or hot.
Eventually, filter and fluid (MB Dex III) were changed in 2011 and the box gave another 6 years' uninterrupted service until its rebuild in 2017.
Worth a try?
RayH
Normal function cold or hot, but not working in between (warm)... is a very unusual scenario. Never heard of that before.
We have some friends about 5 km away. If visiting we needed to go the long way round if we wanted to come home again without delay!
RayH
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