I joined this board with the intention of buying a 1992-1994 400E/E420. After searching the web for months I finally bought an E class, just a different one. I am super focused on condition, condition, condition more than mileage. I simply didn't see enough availability to justify a long trip out of Boise, ID. So last week I bought a 2012 E350 4matic with the sport package in excellent condition with about 75k miles. I figured if I was not going to get a W124, I might as well get the next best E class and the W212 seemed to fit the bill. I originally wanted a V8 car, but with 302 hp, I can live with the V6. One thing I insisted upon, no ECO start-stop feature. So that meant no car later than 2013 although I am not sure all 2014's had that feature, it appears that way. After a several days of ownership, so far so good. This will be a long trip car, meant especially for driving from Boise, ID to St. George multiple times per year. 625 miles with an 80 mph speed limit - so what car could be better for getting that done in a day without fatigue?
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Well no 400E in the near future
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A W124 400E/E420 in good+ condition is difficult to come by the days. Well taken care off examples don't command nowhere near enough pricewise to recoup the investment. I think most have already been either thrown away or have settled indefinitely with their current owners.
I agree. I spent a long time searching for my current 95 E420 and was lucky enough to find one with an extensive service record and from a long term owner who decided to move on to something else. They weren't exactly common and not as many examples have been preserved as the 036.
I've got one, too, that I'm trying to decide whether or not to take the final leap (full repaint) or let it go as-is. It's in very good mechanical condition with 113k on the clock, but needs paint due to the paint failing on the roof.
I'm putting the new front bumper cover on it this week and replacing the worn driver's seat leather and it will be done, for the most part. I may test the market at that point and see what kind of response I get.
I'm putting the new front bumper cover on it this week and replacing the worn driver's seat leather and it will be done, for the most part. I may test the market at that point and see what kind of response I get.
Well these responses confirm my suspicions. I guess with the new to me 2012 E350, I am no longer in the market. However, I also don't ever see a new car in my future, given the awful things like the ECO start-stop feature on many new cars. I simply won't buy a car with this.
You've gotten this car not too long ago, why are you contemplating selling it already?
Don’t let that stop you!
Just check out the cpu guru in Belarus. He is a genius.
Eco delete is just one of many options he has available.
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You can turn the feature off. The only consistent problems were have had is the batteries which are relatively cheap.
So have owned the 2012 E350 for about a month. No issues thus far. Very solid car. I compared the Car and Driver quarter mile times of this car to a E420 and the E350 is about 1 second faster. With about 30 more hp, but less torque. My guess it is the 7 speed vs. the 4 speed, and the rear end ratio.
I can vouch for that as that’s what I did!
Changing the differential was a stunning, huge change to my 420!
I have a 16’ E350 Sport Wagon and while it’s really nice I always prefer to drive the 420 if I don’t need the additional storage room in the rear of the wagon.
Even my kids prefer the 420
Well, I don't know if you can compare a wagon to a sedan for driving pleasure. 4matic vs. rear well drive too. In any case, I am not surprised that a 2.24 rear would dent performance like that. What is crazy is that in the US top end does not matter, so putting a 2.24 rear on the 420 made no sense. We get snow in Idaho, so the 4matic is worth the trade-off for us. If I lived in the SW, I would go with rear wheel drive.
If this is true, why have you invested so much into yours?
If this is true, why have you invested so much into yours?
So, I'm an unreasonable person that suck at math? Thanks guys. Americans and their innate inability to pass up an opportunity to marginalize immigrants and other, second tier human beings. Morbid, dark Ukrainian humor aside (really, I'm joking), I bought my car for $3,800 back in August of 2014. I did not seek it out, nor had any plans for it. Bought on a whim. First $10k was rolled into it easily and mindlessly. It was fun. With each successive $5k I sincerely believed it'd be the last time. After $25k mark, it's more expensive to stop vs keep on going - it becomes a kamikaze thing. After $35k, it makes sense to spend yet more to bring it to perfection, since I'm already that far in. Now it's a double kamikaze thing
. Besides, after 3 years my car became a child of mine, of sorts. After I started working on it myself, it became a part of me in some sense. I know it sounds silly, and I know it's just a car, but I think many here can understand and relate. I stopped counting after $35k. I'm guessing I'm somewhere in the 40s now.It's my first used car and it was/is fun learning experience. For the first 5 years I paid someone else to work on the car. Had I known what I know now and had my current experience, I'd do it again, but for 1/3 the cost. Or actually, I'd buy a 500E with minimum to no deferred maintenance, and daily drive it for a foreseeable future too. There is zero rationality in daily driving a 25+ year old car and dumping money into it, and as much rationality in selling it. It's just a hobby. I foresee another old Merc in my future. I'll be a lot more efficient with it though
As enthusiasts, I think most of us can relate to your attachment and devotion to it. But that’s sort of what I meant. The people who buy old Mercedes aren’t doing so as an investment venture, they’re doing it because they love these cars.So, I'm an unreasonable person that suck at math? Thanks guys. Americans and their innate inability to pass up an opportunity to marginalize immigrants and other, second tier human beings. Morbid, dark Ukrainian humor aside (really, I'm joking), I bought my car for $3,800 back in August of 2014. I did not seek it out, nor had any plans for it. Bought on a whim. First $10k was rolled into it easily and mindlessly. It was fun. With each successive $5k I sincerely believed it'd be the last time. After $25k mark, it's more expensive to stop vs keep on going - it becomes a kamikaze thing. After $35k, it makes sense to spend yet more to bring it to perfection, since I'm already that far in. Now it's a double kamikaze thing
It's my first used car and it was/is fun learning experience. For the first 5 years I paid someone else to work on the car. Had I known what I know now and had my current experience, I'd do it again, but for 1/3 the cost. Or actually, I'd buy a 500E with minimum to no deferred maintenance, and daily drive it for a foreseeable future too. There is zero rationality in daily driving a 25+ year old car and dumping money into it, and as much rationality in selling it. It's just a hobby. I foresee another old Merc in my future. I'll be a lot more efficient with it though
If you look at it entirely from a monetary perspective, keeping any old car going is irrational unless it’s a highly valuable classic... and if it’s a classic, it DARE NOT be driven or else the accumulated mileage and associated maintenance/repairs will steadily diminish its value to the owner, which will yield little to no return on investment. People who think like this generally don’t own old Mercedes, or old cars at all.
A) Speak for yourself @kiev. I’m a third-tier human being .... you and your fancy second-tier status.So, I'm an unreasonable person that suck at math? Thanks guys. Americans and their innate inability to pass up an opportunity to marginalize immigrants and other, second tier human beings. Morbid, dark Ukrainian humor aside (really, I'm joking), I bought my car for $3,800 back in August of 2014. I did not seek it out, nor had any plans for it. Bought on a whim. First $10k was rolled into it easily and mindlessly. It was fun. With each successive $5k I sincerely believed it'd be the last time. After $25k mark, it's more expensive to stop vs keep on going - it becomes a kamikaze thing. After $35k, it makes sense to spend yet more to bring it to perfection, since I'm already that far in. Now it's a double kamikaze thing
It's my first used car and it was/is fun learning experience. For the first 5 years I paid someone else to work on the car. Had I known what I know now and had my current experience, I'd do it again, but for 1/3 the cost. Or actually, I'd buy a 500E with minimum to no deferred maintenance, and daily drive it for a foreseeable future too. There is zero rationality in daily driving a 25+ year old car and dumping money into it, and as much rationality in selling it. It's just a hobby. I foresee another old Merc in my future. I'll be a lot more efficient with it though
B) Totally agree with the irrationality of it all. The money is just a mechanism to keep polishing and polishing and polishing a machine until our mind is satisfied and at rest.
I was mostly referring to myself, apologies for not making that clear. I've pretty much repeated your experience above, although with DIY parts/labor, but with many different cars.
This. ^^^ It's hard to put a price on subjective factors like the smile you get when driving it, vs the sad face you get in the commodity soulless beigemobile.
I'm down in 4th-tier status. You lucky 3rd-tier folks!A) Speak for yourself @kiev. I’m a third-tier human being .... you and your fancy second-tier status.
B) Totally agree with the irrationality of it all. The money is just a mechanism to keep polishing and polishing and polishing a machine until our mind is satisfied and at rest.
It is an odd thing that MB has for many years preached (and to a pretty large extent, executed) a very strong level of support for its older cars. This has flagged, and I saw it about 10 years ago and have commented on this slowly flagging commitment by MB to the older cars along the way. There is a rapidly growing dichotomy about what MB SAYS about supporting its older cars, and what it DOES.
In practice MB's parts availability for older cars is still far better than for many marques; the saving grace for many other non-MB marques is that there is a robust aftermarket (say, if you own a Jeep or a Mustang or a Chevy whatever) and so you can get nearly anything. For MBs, it's either what they have avaialble, or a shrinking aftermarket (or one that is making cheap and crappy parts), or used parts.
So maintaining and driving these cars is 100% a labor of love. If you are not committed to that, over the long haul, then indeed it's probably better that you just go and buy an AMG whatever from the local stealership. And see how fun and cheap that is to maintain in 5-10 years .... if you can even get the parts for it.
There are a FEW of us who EXCLUSIVELY drive and own old MBs -- for both daily and Sunday drivers. No "new" MB to fall back on. When I went to the post office this AM to mail out a couple of parts, it wasn't in my wife's 2017 Lexus. It was in my 1995 G-wagen. The ultimate in being committed and "labor of love" is only having older cars, and nothing new to rely on
We do have a 4Runner, but that is exclusively for transporting the dog these days. 100+ pound Yellow Labs and the back seats of 560SECs don't really mix that well......
In practice MB's parts availability for older cars is still far better than for many marques; the saving grace for many other non-MB marques is that there is a robust aftermarket (say, if you own a Jeep or a Mustang or a Chevy whatever) and so you can get nearly anything. For MBs, it's either what they have avaialble, or a shrinking aftermarket (or one that is making cheap and crappy parts), or used parts.
So maintaining and driving these cars is 100% a labor of love. If you are not committed to that, over the long haul, then indeed it's probably better that you just go and buy an AMG whatever from the local stealership. And see how fun and cheap that is to maintain in 5-10 years .... if you can even get the parts for it.
There are a FEW of us who EXCLUSIVELY drive and own old MBs -- for both daily and Sunday drivers. No "new" MB to fall back on. When I went to the post office this AM to mail out a couple of parts, it wasn't in my wife's 2017 Lexus. It was in my 1995 G-wagen. The ultimate in being committed and "labor of love" is only having older cars, and nothing new to rely on
We do have a 4Runner, but that is exclusively for transporting the dog these days. 100+ pound Yellow Labs and the back seats of 560SECs don't really mix that well......
You two had to still my only asset (victimhood). I can't cash even that now. I'll just go burn a local CVS
Davewas mostly referring to myself, apologies for not making that clear. I've pretty much repeated your experience above, although with DIY parts/labor, but with many different cars.
You did not have to explain yourself, nor apologize. I was really just joking. Besides, if one skims through headlines daily, one knows that math is racist anyways 
. As are children's books. And so on and so forthWell I bought a 1983 Porsche 911 SC in 1993 and kept it for 10 years and it wasn't cheap even though I had no major issues. The 2012 E350 4matic we just bought at 75k is a middle ground car. Not too old, not too new. We are really enjoying it thus far. Love the feel, ride and yes even the power is decent. No surprises thus far, it was well cared for. It is way more complex than any car I have ever owned so no doubt there will be some issues. But I want a new car less and less and hope to avoid at all costs any car with a start/stop feature or cylinder deactivation.
I’ve driven that variant of the w212, and it certainly is a nice package overall. It’s a very comfortable, smooth car but also handles pretty well. My only minor complaint I can remember was that the steering was slightly over-assisted and quite numb feeling, although I’m sure many people would prefer this. Either way, I believe it’s an excellent choice for both long trips and daily commutes.
Ha! I've caught exactly the same illnessFirst $10k was rolled into it easily and mindlessly. It was fun. With each successive $5k I sincerely believed it'd be the last time. After $25k mark, it's more expensive to stop vs keep on going - it becomes a kamikaze thing. After $35k, it makes sense to spend yet more to bring it to perfection, since I'm already that far in. Now it's a double kamikaze thing
Even the numbers are the same, with exception that currency is PLN and engine is M111.960.Oh, so I'm in more advanced stage - there already another old Merc in my life
Well - double fun now - I call those Lego Technic "real life edition" :
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I would love if my outlay was in UAH . Lego Technics - I remember when my father brought me from, I think from Vienna, super car/race car. One could assemble either variant, which I've done multiple times. It was like an alien artifact. I'm sure it was the same in mid-90s Poland
. Lego Technics - I remember when my father brought me from, I think from Vienna, super car/race car. One could assemble either variant, which I've done multiple times. It was like an alien artifact. I'm sure it was the same in mid-90s Poland
A friend of mine had a few sets, some smuggled from his family member in Austria. For most of the people smuggling Lego blocks sounds like story out of this world - but yes, there were such times. We spent countless hours with those. And he even had this same set - all the time we wondered whether set #8888 is even more special.
I got that Lego set for my first communion and still have it assembled at my parent's crib in Germany. The cylinders were moving in the engine, independent suspension, that thing was intense. I can't quite remember, but I believe it also had a transmission and driveshaft, so that if you pushed it forward, the engine was turning over.I would love if my outlay was in UAH
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Yes, same experience and memories. I also can't remember, but I think there was a driveshaft
I purchased my 92 400e back in October for $2500. 177k miles, pretty decent shape mechanically and cosmetically. I lost my 93 500e a few years back due to an accident and can't afford one now so this is as close as I can get. During those years without a V8 W124 I drove a 2004 CTSV...fun car and fast but just wasn't a W124 lol. I also have a 1991 190e 2.6 and a 2008 E350 4matic wagon. The wagon sits the most out of all 3.
That’s a good deal. I saw this E420 listed a day ago for $10,000 with only slightly lower mileage than that:
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Price is not $7,000 it is $10,000 or best offer. I purchased this from the previous owner who had it for 23 years they bought it from Mercedes certified pre owned in 1997. Always garage kept. This car is in great condition and well maintained. The w124 is arguably the best E class ever made and the E420 is the best one to own besides the 500E which is 5-10x the price. This car has the same engine in it as the 500 E. The M119 engine under the hood is an extremely reliable hand built V8 engine that is regarded by many enthusiasts as the best v8 engine ever built by Mercedes Benz. These cars are going up in value. This is your chance to get one of the best examples. All original two tone paint. Mercedes stopped with two tone paint because of how expensive it is. The only Mercedes you can get two tone paint on now are the Maybach models. This is a very rare car only 5000 made for the world and few are left on the road after 27 years in this amazing condition. All original I have 4 keys .
Yeah I got pretty lucky. Here in Seattle I think nobody really cares about the older Mercedes unless its something that the speculators with money can screw an enthusiast out of. Morons asking me if my 500e was a ‘cosworth’That’s a good deal. I saw this E420 listed a day ago for $10,000 with only slightly lower mileage than that:
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Seller's descriptionPrice is not $7,000 it is $10,000 or best offer. I purchased this from the previous owner who had it for 23 years they bought it from Mercedes certified pre owned in 1997. Always garage kept. This car is in great condition and well maintained. The w124 is arguably the best E class ever made and the E420 is the best one to own besides the 500E which is 5-10x the price. This car has the same engine in it as the 500 E. The M119 engine under the hood is an extremely reliable hand built V8 engine that is regarded by many enthusiasts as the best v8 engine ever built by Mercedes Benz. These cars are going up in value. This is your chance to get one of the best examples. All original two tone paint. Mercedes stopped with two tone paint because of how expensive it is. The only Mercedes you can get two tone paint on now are the Maybach models. This is a very rare car only 5000 made for the world and few are left on the road after 27 years in this amazing condition. All original I have 4 keys
I feel like that's how it is here too. Most folks have no idea what my E420 is and just think its an old Mercedes. Fine by me since its an absolute blast to drive and was cheap to buy.Yeah I got pretty lucky. Here in Seattle I think nobody really cares about the older Mercedes unless its something that the speculators with money can screw an enthusiast out of. Morons asking me if my 500e was a ‘cosworth’
That exact reason is why they’ve always been so sought after in Europe. Many thousands of W124s were used as taxis, which is what many Europeans simply associate them with. Many of them were powered by the M102, M103 or were diesel, which obviously are nothing too impressive performance-wise.
The beauty of the 400E/E420 to them is that it looks IDENTICAL to the pedestrian four and six cylinder powered W124s, but far fewer were ever produced. And since W124s are still fairly commonplace in Europe, that really makes it the ultimate sleeper.
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Speaking of 2nd to 4th tier, and completely off topic, but I like you guys beeing in a honest mood!
My maths denying confession today: I am going for a 700 miles and a 600 miles drive within the next 5 days. Private and the other one business. I am using my E420 even though it is going to use a silly amount of gas for that, compared to the other family cars or even the available company pool-car. Reason is: i love the ride and power and I am not going to live forever. And speedlimit will come to Germany. I drive my cars as much as I can and spend money on them if necessary or desired: my children, of course, would be better off with an original low mile car to inherit and sell, with regard to money. Instead, they have a happy father.
Somebody was quoted somewhere with stating that we are privleged to live in the very short era of mankind where vehicles are powered with fossil fuels.
And are able to burn it with a M119.
N
This is not a statement to be unkind with nature.
My maths denying confession today: I am going for a 700 miles and a 600 miles drive within the next 5 days. Private and the other one business. I am using my E420 even though it is going to use a silly amount of gas for that, compared to the other family cars or even the available company pool-car. Reason is: i love the ride and power and I am not going to live forever. And speedlimit will come to Germany. I drive my cars as much as I can and spend money on them if necessary or desired: my children, of course, would be better off with an original low mile car to inherit and sell, with regard to money. Instead, they have a happy father.
Somebody was quoted somewhere with stating that we are privleged to live in the very short era of mankind where vehicles are powered with fossil fuels.
And are able to burn it with a M119.
N
This is not a statement to be unkind with nature.
We just got back from our drive from Boise, ID to St. George, UT. It is about 640 miles each way. On the way down, we averaged a "motor on," speed of 78 mph and got 28 mpg - which includes pulling off to find food and gas. We had a tailwind and the drive ends at a lower elevation. Still quite amazing. To average 78 mph with the motor on in the 2012 E350 4matic is amazing to me because it meant that while on the highway I was driving 85 to 90 mph when the speed limit was 80 mph, and only slower for traffic and work zones. Our mileage was about 26 mph on the way back. The 3.5 V6 and 7 speed auto are a good highway combo. I really can't use much more power in any case because of speed limits.
Both for the 28 mpg number, I checked the calculation manually too. It was a little less, 27and something.
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