Looking to get some reviews from members who have purchased seat kits from either or both German Auto Tops (GAT) or GAHH automotive for their .036. Is one truly better than the other?
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GAT or GAHH: Which seat kit is better?
- Thread starter Whitemamba23
- Start date
I think member @bclifton used Gahh for his front seats on his former 560SEC. I think he was pleased with the results, but I'll let him comment.
One thing that caught my eye is that he had to disassemble the original covers so he can get the heating elements out and send them in advance to have them incorporated in the new seat covers when they were sewn. For that reason I am trying to get some in advance from seats in the JY and keep my original covers intact, just in case. You may want to consider that if you have heated seats.
One thing that caught my eye is that he had to disassemble the original covers so he can get the heating elements out and send them in advance to have them incorporated in the new seat covers when they were sewn. For that reason I am trying to get some in advance from seats in the JY and keep my original covers intact, just in case. You may want to consider that if you have heated seats.
I have had a mushroom GAHH skin on my 560SEC driver's seat and armrest since 2002, when I bought the car. It has been just fine.
My former 560SL also had a fresh pair of palomino front seat skins, and they were also just fine.
No complaints from my personal experience with GAHH.
My former 560SL also had a fresh pair of palomino front seat skins, and they were also just fine.
No complaints from my personal experience with GAHH.
Ouch. That could mean no more half-price leathers from GAT. The GAAH prices normally resulted in a scream of "GAAAAHHH!". ±$2500 for a pair of fronts is nuts.
This depends on the year and model. Standard 124's do indeed have the heaters sewn into the back side of the leather covers, and these must be extracted and re-sewn into the new leathers. @LWB250 just did this on an .034 recently. However, W124/S124 (sedan/wagon) Sportline seats and all E500E seats have the side/bolster heating elements glued to the "horsehair" pads, they are not attached to the leathers. The center heating elements are loose and slide into fabric 'pockets' on the leather. Completely different design vs standard/non-Sportline seats.
Note that on almost every single 124 that I've had with heated seats, at least one element is defective; typically driver seat, typically outer bolsters on bottom and/or backrest. There are 3 separate elements on the bottom, 3 in the backrest, on each side... 12 total per car. Due to the series/parallel wiring, if either left OR right bolster element is dead, the good one on the opposite side will not heat. All the elements are NLA, as are the 036/Sportline pads/cushions.
Apparently these guys sell the real deal Roser leather, but then you still need to have the covers made I guess:
hydesleather.com
Hydes Leather | Authentic Automotive Leather and Alcantara
Hydes Leather supply the world's finest automotive, marine and aviation leather - delivered from tanneries in Europe to upholsterers and custom car builders worldwide.
hydesleather.com
Dave, is there an easy way to individually test the elements before installation? I'll be using new seat bottoms with elements but re using the seat back elements (if indeed there are elements in the seat backs) I'd like to know before i send them the seat back elements / or covers.Ouch. That could mean no more half-price leathers from GAT. The GAAH prices normally resulted in a scream of "GAAAAHHH!". ±$2500 for a pair of fronts is nuts.
This depends on the year and model. Standard 124's do indeed have the heaters sewn into the back side of the leather covers, and these must be extracted and re-sewn into the new leathers. @LWB250 just did this on an .034 recently. However, W124/S124 (sedan/wagon) Sportline seats and all E500E seats have the heating elements glued to the "horsehair" pads, they are not attached to the leathers. Completely different design.
Note that on almost every single 124 that I've had with heated seats, at least one element is defective; typically driver seat, typically outer bolsters on bottom and/or backrest. There are 3 separate elements on the bottom, 3 in the backrest, on each side... 12 total per car. Due to the series/parallel wiring, if either left OR right bolster element is dead, the good one on the opposite side will not heat. All the elements are NLA, as are the 036/Sportline pads/cushions.
I'm getting very close to ordering new so I'll let everyone know the results.
drew
Check them with an ohmmeter. The individual "panels" have connectors between them, so you can separate the circuits and check the resistance. Depending on the size of the panel they'll range from maybe 5 ohms to 10 ohms, I believe.
Dan
Bud's Benz in the Atlanta area resells GAHH interiors at better prices.
His primary business is SLs but he has done 124s and other MB types.
His primary business is SLs but he has done 124s and other MB types.
Looks like prices are pretty comparable right now for the .036/sportline style sets.Ouch. That could mean no more half-price leathers from GAT. The GAAH prices normally resulted in a scream of "GAAAAHHH!". ±$2500 for a pair of fronts is nuts.
This depends on the year and model. Standard 124's do indeed have the heaters sewn into the back side of the leather covers, and these must be extracted and re-sewn into the new leathers. @LWB250 just did this on an .034 recently. However, W124/S124 (sedan/wagon) Sportline seats and all E500E seats have the heating elements glued to the "horsehair" pads, they are not attached to the leathers. Completely different design.
Note that on almost every single 124 that I've had with heated seats, at least one element is defective; typically driver seat, typically outer bolsters on bottom and/or backrest. There are 3 separate elements on the bottom, 3 in the backrest, on each side... 12 total per car. Due to the series/parallel wiring, if either left OR right bolster element is dead, the good one on the opposite side will not heat. All the elements are NLA, as are the 036/Sportline pads/cushions.
$1075 for fronts from GAT with headrests
$1360 from GAHH on sale.
free shipping for both.
Dan is correct. Each individual element should be single-digit ohms. I want to say between 3 and 6 ohms, approximately. I can measure some i fyou want exact numbers. Bad elements will usually be open (infinite resistance) due to a broken wire somewhere inside the foam, but a high resistance reading (dozens/hundreds of ohms, or higher) also indicates a bad element.
Interesting... the prices are getting closer. Below is pricing from 2013 (at this link) when GAAH was double the GAT cost:
2013 GAHH pricing:
http://www.gahh.com/store.php?cPath=51_3438_253_2252 <--URL does not work in 2021
Price: $1,733 for both 500E front seats, bottom cushion & backrest only. Add $184 for a pair of headrest covers.
2013 GAT pricing:
Price: $795 for both 500E front seats, bottom cushion & backrest only. Add $??? for a pair of headrest covers.
I actually may have gone a bit overboard and bought GAHH seat coverings for all four seats, extra leather for armrest/seat backs, and then I got the carpet kits too (even recarpeting the doors). I stripped the car down myself and had a local upholstery shop do the work (including sending the seat to GAHH to have heating element sewn in properly). I spent about $9k for everything. When I got everything back together, it really was like having a new car (including the new car smell). I redid all the wood around the same time too
Pics here from the person I sold to- I ended up getting a 2009 CL63 AMG which has been a great car
The interior work is what drove my wife over the edge on hating the W126. Besides her hate for it, my 7 year old son would often leave the back seat a mess (shoe marks show up real easy on beige/cream interior) and I felt really bad getting angry over that (he door dinged it a few times too)
1991 Mercedes-Benz 560 Series
This week Canyon State Classics is proud to bring to market one of our favorite automobiles here at the shop. The beautiful and powerful 1991 Mercedes-Benz...
canyonstateclassics.com
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@sheward, is that just labor, total job out the door, or something else? Maybe shops get a wholesale discount? Just trying to get a sense of what a regional upholstery shop might tell me. At most I only need fronts. Or should I say “want” fronts. I’ve been trying to stay away from restoring this car, but I’ve also been steadily losing that battle. The more I keep it the more I want to do just because... after 30 years you feel like all that stuff is “due” anyway. Yet you have those who go for the “unrestored” look and feel.
maw
Those prices are for the covers only...I believe. We had a conversation about the heating elements being in the seat pads on the bottom so no additional work there. I'm still unsure if the seat backs are heated? If so, there may be added expense to glue the old elements into the seat back covers. There will be additional cost to install the covers I believe. I will confirm Monday. I may install them Myself and have Buds do final fitting / steaming / stretching as necessary.
drew
drew
Those prices are for leather covers only, almost certainly not including labor. The numbers match the GAAH "sale" prices. I am curious what the labor costs will be.
Backrests are indeed heated, using the same design as the bottoms, elements inside foam glued to the pads on the side, and removable center elements that slide into pockets on the leather covers. Detailed photos of all this stuff is on my website.
Drew, since you are having both front seats taken apart, measure all 12 heating elements. If any are bad (usually side/bolster elements), swap parts around so your driver seat heaters are all working (assuming you don't often need the passenger seat fully warmed for SWMBO/etc).
Backrests are indeed heated, using the same design as the bottoms, elements inside foam glued to the pads on the side, and removable center elements that slide into pockets on the leather covers. Detailed photos of all this stuff is on my website.
Drew, since you are having both front seats taken apart, measure all 12 heating elements. If any are bad (usually side/bolster elements), swap parts around so your driver seat heaters are all working (assuming you don't often need the passenger seat fully warmed for SWMBO/etc).
I'll add more info on labor pricing Monday. I had previously seen your info on the elements but forgot. Thanks for clarifying. That's a helpful tip on combining elements. Passenger may have to rough it.
Any electrical gurus know if these elements could be made from available sourced parts? I'll explore using old seat bottom elements in seat backs if any are working.
drew
Any electrical gurus know if these elements could be made from available sourced parts? I'll explore using old seat bottom elements in seat backs if any are working.
drew
I've decided to work directly with GAHH to avoid third party confusion. Interior code 275 leather sample is on the way to me. Jack, in technical support, was already aware of the creme beige / parchment YM differences. We have confirmed that GAHH does not need heating elements for 036 Sportline seats. The covers will come with appropriate pockets for the center upper and lower elements.
I have two non working heater elements. Both drivers backrest bolsters. Not suprised since the outside bolster sports a 3 inch hole in the cover with heater wires visible. I may decide to fashion new elements from the old seat bottom bolsters. All the good elements were showing 6 to 7 ohms.
drew
I have two non working heater elements. Both drivers backrest bolsters. Not suprised since the outside bolster sports a 3 inch hole in the cover with heater wires visible. I may decide to fashion new elements from the old seat bottom bolsters. All the good elements were showing 6 to 7 ohms.
drew
Swap driver/passenger backrests to get the pilot seat fully heated. Then put any modified heaters on the passenger side, where (presumably) they would get less use.
Interesting that both bolsters were dead on the same backrest; usually it's the outer that fails on the driver side. If you can locate the broken wire, it can be fixed by soldering in a similar-size wire (or if there's enough slack, soldering the broken ends together). The problem is if the break isn't visible, you need to slice open the foam and try to locate it...
Shared your thoughts but realized the wiring in the seatbacks differs due to the seat memory function. I'm very hesitant to remove or open the thin foam on the bolsters as after 20+ years they have fused with the foam underneath. In fact, that thin foam is also gone where the cover was worn. I'm going to see what kind of foam I can find. I'd appreciate any knowledge of these kinds of materials and adhesives to help in re creating a smooth surface. I'm planning on making some calls to local upholsterers as I want to cover some additional pieces of plastic as well. Very worse case, the backrest bolsters will not be heated. A small annoyance living in Atlanta.
drew
drew
Remember the bolster elements are inside foam glued to the cushion, and you can swap cushions left to right. No need to swap the entire seat, or even the new leather cover (remember the driver side needs a hole for the armrest mount). If you are doing the work, put the driver leather cover onto the passenger cushion with good heaters, and vice-versa. Or tell your upholstery guy to do so.
There's not much risk in opening the foam on the failed heaters, if you can't fix it, just glue the foam back together. There's a fabric top layer above the ~1/2" thick foam which has the wires inside. I'm not entirely sure if the wires are in the top/fabric layer, or embedded inside the center of the foam. I have a loose one on the work bench that I need to do an autopsy on.
UPDATE: See post #30 below.
There's not much risk in opening the foam on the failed heaters, if you can't fix it, just glue the foam back together. There's a fabric top layer above the ~1/2" thick foam which has the wires inside. I'm not entirely sure if the wires are in the top/fabric layer, or embedded inside the center of the foam. I have a loose one on the work bench that I need to do an autopsy on.
UPDATE: See post #30 below.
Ahh... I've overlooked that twice now 
I'm hesitant to remove the seat back pad from the frame due to the worry of cracking the old horsehair pad. There is a flap at the bottom of the pad that needs to unfold 180 degrees to remove it.
It's that fabric top layer I'm concerned about. It does not separate from the foam any longer. I can see the wires (tiny) just under the fabric.
drew
I'm hesitant to remove the seat back pad from the frame due to the worry of cracking the old horsehair pad. There is a flap at the bottom of the pad that needs to unfold 180 degrees to remove it.It's that fabric top layer I'm concerned about. It does not separate from the foam any longer. I can see the wires (tiny) just under the fabric.
drew
OH, now I see. The cushion/pad should slide right off the seat metal frame. MB calls it a "rubber hair" pad or mat. It's pretty flexible and shouldn't crack or otherwise fall apart. If it does, you want to find out BEFORE putting new leathers on top.
I wonder if the wires are normally glued to the underside of the fabric layer. Hmmm....
I wonder if the wires are normally glued to the underside of the fabric layer. Hmmm....
Heating pad dissected. There was a burn mark and a hole in the top fabric, but the exposed wire appeared intact. After tearing the foam apart (NOT easy) to expose the wires, you guessed it, the wire was broken internally right near the burned area. The insulation on the wire was intact, but the conductor inside had broken. When I first tore the foam apart, the wire (insulation) was in one piece, but clearly did not feel right at that area. It broke rather easily. I touched the bare ends together and got ~6 ohms, so that was the only break in the loop.
This could have been repaired by slicing open the top and soldering the wire back together. Now it's a bigger mess... sigh:
This could have been repaired by slicing open the top and soldering the wire back together. Now it's a bigger mess... sigh:
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Yes - the wire started to fracture before it broke, and the high resistance at that point caused a localized hot spot, which burned a small hole.
I've seen this before, even burning a small hole through the leather cover. (!!)
I just placed my order with GAHH. Their price is slightly more than I could have paid through Buds Benz locally however I thought the difference was worth talking with the folks who will make them directly. Jack Dekirmendjian, VP Sales and Marketing was very knowledgeable and sent out two samples of leather, crème beige and parchment to be sure I was getting what I wanted. I'm paying about $1,500 for two front covers and $160 for two headrest covers. I also ordered an armrest cover for $75. They have these for both early solid armrests as well as the later two piece versions. Shipping is free.
The grain on the samples is a bit heavier than OEM, which is nearly smooth, but beautiful to my eye. Jack was aware and theorized that the original leather may have smoothed over time. Certainly plausible but I'm guessing the OEM leather was smoother. Regardless, the difference is slight and I'm not concerned. If someone is recovering for a 100 point concours judgement they will have to spend some time searching further and then hope that GAHH will use their leather. I was told it will take about 3 weeks for them to ship.
drew
The grain on the samples is a bit heavier than OEM, which is nearly smooth, but beautiful to my eye. Jack was aware and theorized that the original leather may have smoothed over time. Certainly plausible but I'm guessing the OEM leather was smoother. Regardless, the difference is slight and I'm not concerned. If someone is recovering for a 100 point concours judgement they will have to spend some time searching further and then hope that GAHH will use their leather. I was told it will take about 3 weeks for them to ship.
drew
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That is a great price. If you don't mind, I would like to know how the leather piece for the center armrest (later style?) turns out.
When I had my GAHH front covers installed, my upholsterer swore up and down that replacing the leather at the later-style armrest was going to end up look crappy, and so I had my center armrest re-dyed.
Unless you remove the old flip-top armrest leather and replace it, the end result will not be aesthetically pleasing... this may be an involved job. You may want to re-cover a donor flip-top armrest just in case, that way you keep the original unmolested.
Yea, the earlier version should be easier. I've looked at the later version with thoughts of changing and came to the same conclusion. Much more involved. I like the soft support of the early version too.
Jlaa, I'll let you know how things go. I may want to use some dye on other parts as well. I'm nearly decided to use additional Italian beige leather I have elsewhere in the interior.
drew
Jlaa, I'll let you know how things go. I may want to use some dye on other parts as well. I'm nearly decided to use additional Italian beige leather I have elsewhere in the interior.
drew
Drew, I've visited GAHH and they are a very solid and reputable operation. I also have had their skins on both my former 560SL and my 560SEC. I will make these observations:
1) The grain of their normal leather is definitely heavier than the stock grain in MB factory leather. Especially the leather as used on the 500E.
2) Over the years, the grain has relaxed somewhat on my 560SEC seat, particularly in the areas that see wear (horizontal surface, armrest cover, etc.) and it does smooth out somewhat.
3) The covers are of good quality and do last. It's the best you can really do for ordinary people. There are sources for leather out there that would allow you to exactly mimic the factory leather, but the cost is exponentially more than GAHH.
4) I've seen plenty of other cars over the years with GAHH leather and the quality has always been good, and when well-installed (particularly by a professional) the results are VG+ to quite stunning.
I don't think you can really go wrong with GAHH. There is cheaper out there. There is much more expensive out there. But for 95% of people, GAHH is an excellent replacement product.
My covered upholstery 560SEC center armrest turned out just fine (it's mushroom). Same for my former 560SL (which was saddle).Unless you remove the old flip-top armrest leather and replace it, the end result will not be aesthetically pleasing... this may be an involved job. You may want to re-cover a donor flip-top armrest just in case, that way you keep the original unmolested.
For the flip-top armrests on the 500Es, with the compartment inside, I agree that re-dying/repair is probably a better option than re-leathering it. The flip-tops I've seen that have been recovered look NOTHING like the factory setup, despite sometimes yeoman-like efforts by the interior shop that did the work.
This is why I have a pristine gray armrest as a spare in my parts stash, which I would definitely dye black if ever needed for replacement of mine (which is fine). I've advertised the gray armrest some years back for sale, but got no takers. I realize the price was high, but I advertised it with new straps and hydraulic strut, and a condition 1-minus overall. So I just decided to keep it as a spare.
I just recovered the front seats of my 560SEC with new covers from GAHH. Hope this helps as a reference.
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So basically you order the leather pieces(kit) for a specific seat and you find a place to stich it together for you? Am I right?
I highly doubt theyll have factory champagne color c43 leather. Its quite unique...i havent seen it in any other mercedes.
No, you show them what your seats look like, send color samples if you are worried about it being an exact match, and they create the covers for you - ready to install. Contact them with a photo of your seats and ask for a quote.
Price update:
GAT = $975 for front seats, WITH headrests:
GAHH = $1563 on sale (25% off from $2,083), and does not specify if headrests are included:
gahh.com
GAT = $975 for front seats, WITH headrests:
GAHH = $1563 on sale (25% off from $2,083), and does not specify if headrests are included:
Mercedes 124 1992-1995, Seat Front Set, Style #4
Replacement Mercedes Seat Kits for Mercedes. Fits models 500E, E500 and years 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995. 4-piece upholstery kit available in European leather which is specially tanned and finished to exactly duplicate the original color, weight, and grain specified by Mercedes, or in German MB Tex...
@jlla which ones did you buy? They look crispy and clean like new linen sheets.
I was very impressed
I was very impressed
Thanks! GAHH, but, frankly I think sooooo much of the impression of quality is dependent on the installer ….. stretching, steaming, smoothing, etc. Upholstery work is such an art form……
