w124 E500E Non Standard wheel picture thread.Post your pics

[outrbnks]

Hmmmm. How many turns do the bolts go into the rear hubs?
I have 18x9.5 ET+28 14R ball seat rear wheels currently on the car. I am using some OTIS in LA bolts in the rear that I cut down to 32-33mm shaft length.

You have 18x9.5ET+25 cone seat rear wheels on the rear in your car. I do not know how NEEZ gets the additional offset on the ET+25 wheels, but if we assume that the wheel mounting flange area is the same thickness as the ET+28 wheels or thicker, that would suggest that your bolts, at less than 30mm shaft length, do not need any shortening? Interesting.

Try to count the num of turns the bolts go into the hub before you grind anything.

The offset of any wheel has nothing to do with the proper length bolt for the wheel.

The only thing that controls the proper bolt length needed, is how deep the wheel manufacture machines the bolt holes, (in relationship to the backside mounting surface). The offset could be a very wide range, it's the depth of the machining of the bolt holes that controls bolt length needed.

Offset is the relationship of the imaginary center-line of the wheel to the backside mounting surface.
An 8" wheel width has an imaginary center line of 4", offset is the difference of the backside location to that imaginary 4" measurement.
If the mounting surface was lined up exactly at the wheel wide center of 4", the offset would be 0, zero), the farther away from the centerline you move the mounting surface gives you the offset for that wheel, (plus or minus.. see a 4-wheeler with the wheels sticking outside the body, that's a huge negative offset.)

All of that has nothing to do with how deep the bolt holes are machined, which is a completely independent operation by design.

The same wheel backside mounting surface location is also used when machining bolt holes, but there is no direct relationship between offset and bolt length. Staggered wheels sets all use the same length bolts, again, offset is not related to bolt length.

 

[Jlaa]

The offset of any wheel has nothing to do with the proper length bolt for the wheel.

Yes, of course you are right. However, I was talking about offset because I was comparing two identical wheels, with the only difference being the offset — wheel A has offset ET+28 and wheel B has offset ET+25. If the difference in offset is realized by a different thickness of the mounting flange between the two wheels, then the bolts for wheel A cannot be relied on as an accurate measure for the bolts to be used with for wheel B.

 

[outrbnks]

Maybe I'm ,misunderstanding what your saying...

If the wheels are from a matched staggered set sold as a package, you can assume the bolt lengths will be the same.

But if your talking about similar looking wheels sold for different models, your may be right, but the wheel set per model will have the same length bolts (SL class to S class for instance)

The factory staggered wheels on my 2000 SL 500 are different offsets front to rear, but the all the wheels take the exact same length bolts.

The difference in mounting flange location for the offset changes your referring too, also requires a difference in bolt hole machining depth. The relationship of the bolt hole depth to the mounting flange location is maintained by specification, no matter where the flange is moved to by machining, or by original casting.

For instance (using fake numbers), in order to have 40mm shank bolts fit correctly on an 25mm offset wheel, the machining depth for the bolt holes will fictitiously need to be 200mm, but for the 28mm offset wheels, the machining bolt hole depth will have to change to 203mm.

Otherwise you would need different length bolts front to rear. The factory and other wheel manufactures will not do that to you.
We can sometimes do that to ourselves with spare tires, if the stock spare wheel takes a 40mm shank bolt, and if you installed a set of wheels that use 23mm shank bolts, you need to carry 5 40mm bolts with you at all times, just to mount the spare in an emergency. (I did this BTW)

Purchase any typical staggered wheel set, and you will find the bolt lengths for all the wheels will be the same, there may be exceptions, but I haven;t heard of any.

But to be safe measure everything, yanking a wheel off to check bolt lengths is no big deal at all...

 

[Jlaa]

Maybe I'm ,misunderstanding what your saying...

If the wheels are from a matched staggered set sold as a package, you can assume the bolt lengths will be the same.

But if your talking about similar looking wheels sold for different models, your may be right, but the wheel set per model will have the same length bolts (SL class to S class for instance)

The factory staggered wheels on my 2000 SL 500 are different offsets front to rear, but the all the wheels take the exact same length bolts.

The difference in mounting flange location for the offset changes your referring too, also requires a difference in bolt hole machining depth. The relationship of the bolt hole depth to the mounting flange location is maintained by specification, no matter where the flange is moved to by machining, or by original casting.

For instance (using fake numbers), in order to have 40mm shank bolts fit correctly on an 25mm offset wheel, the machining depth for the bolt holes will fictitiously need to be 200mm, but for the 28mm offset wheels, the machining bolt hole depth will have to change to 203mm.

Otherwise you would need different length bolts front to rear. The factory and other wheel manufactures will not do that to you.
We can sometimes do that to ourselves with spare tires, if the stock spare wheel takes a 40mm shank bolt, and if you installed a set of wheels that use 23mm shank bolts, you need to carry 5 40mm bolts with you at all times, just to mount the spare in an emergency. (I did this BTW)

Purchase any typical staggered wheel set, and you will find the bolt lengths for all the wheels will be the same, there may be exceptions, but I haven;t heard of any.

But to be safe measure everything, yanking a wheel off to check bolt lengths is no big deal at all...

@outrbnks - thank you for your reply - yes - we have a slight misunderstanding of our respective points / observations but I think that slight misunderstanding is irrelevant. No need to get into it - I am hoping this all is enough info for the
poster to solve his clicking noises!

 

[sheward]

You are both correct. I believe that Jlaa had in mind the possible instance that Outerbanks refers to which MAY arise when discussing custom wheels. I have not heard of any variance among manufacturers however I know little about NEEZ manufacturing and have considered them custom wheels, possibly even made to order, and this introduces the possibility of straying from manufacturing norms.

Come to think of it, I believe either my Lorinser LM1s (which were produced to fit multiple chassis with proprietary spacers) or Carlsson 2/6s had the difference we are discussing. Both staggered sets.

I measure the amount of bolt protruding from the backside of the wheel as well.

drew

 

[gsxr]

To clarify on previous comments:

The number of turns will tell you approximately how much of the bolt is threading through the rear hub. The hub is 10mm thick, the bolt thread is 1.5mm. Six turns would be ~9mm and should not protrude. Seven turns would protrude slightly, etc. For safety reasons you want at least 4.5-5.0 turns to have enough thread engagement, more is ok if there's no interference.

The distance the bolt pokes out the back of the wheel (vs the wheel mounting surface, which is not always the same as the surface around the bolt hole - this varies by mfr!) is VERY useful, HOWEVER, you also need to know the rotor hat thickness. For all 036 rotors, this is 6.5mm thick, but for all other 124 chassis it is 4.5mm thick.

Adding the hat thickness (6.5mm) and hub thickness (10mm) in general you'd want to have 16-18mm bolt protrusion for an E500E, and much beyond 19-20mm could contact parking brake internals and cause ticking (or, damage).

I think @azjtravels may need to grind a bit off the rear bolts which should fix the problem. IIRC, the NEEZ use a unique bolt that cannot be replaced with aftermarket bolts.

 

[Jlaa]

IIRC, the NEEZ use a unique bolt that cannot be replaced with aftermarket bolts.

@gsxr that was when you and I were looking at my first set of wheels which had 14R ball seat and 12 shank bolts w/ that weirdo collar remember?

This new set of NEEZ wheels use a cone seat and are different….. (!!!).

 

[azjtravels]

Well, I found shorter bolts. They are 25mm. Seemed like 4.5 to 5 full rotations. Plus torquing to 80lb/ft. Noise is gone.

That’s the good news. The bad news is that the bolt set (I had to get locking) was missing one! Very frustrating. And I lightly scratched one of the wheels!

Fortunately I know a guy. But that really was disappointing.

Thanks again for all of the help!

Josh