I'm interested in trying Redline 10W50 10W50 Motor Oil is there a way of finding out the zddp levels for this particular oil of theirs?
Regards,
D
Regards,
D
-
Hi Guest !
Welcome to the 500Eboard forum.
Since its founding in late 2008, 500Eboard has become the leading resource on the Internet for all things related to the Mercedes-Benz 500E and E500. In recent years, we have also expanded to include the 400E and E420 models, which are directly related to the 500E/E500.
We invite you to browse and take advantage of the information and resources here on the site. If you find helpful information, please register for full membership, and you'll find even more resources available. Feel free to ask questions, and make liberal use of the "Search" function to find answers.
We hope you will become an active contributor to the community!
Sincerely,
500Eboard Management
Engine oil recommendations
- Thread starter 550Maranello
- Start date
What's interesting is they don't list the Zinc or Phosphorus for the regular 10w50, only for the powersports version. I don't know how different they are.
maw
Exactly! I've sent then an inquiry yesterday, hope to hear from them. If the numbers are where they should be, I could use it SL500 and S2, so I can buy it in bulk with free shipping. And "10" factor is very user friendly in my winter weather, so I don't have to change oil for the winter just to drive the car.
Regards,
D
I understand. Similar for my Audi -- smokes oil like Marlboros in the summer but needs thin stuff for winter (they say). Spec is 5W or 0W, but I just use 10W30 full synthetic. (1) They weren't talking about full synthetics back then (different, finer particles) so I think you should always spec up in older cars. (2) 5k mile intervals it just doesn't matter as far as I can tell.
Both of your long noses have more room in the engine bay so they may not run as hot. And the 4.2L 5v is all aluminum so it likely expands and contracts, unlike these steel blocks.
I also had good success with 5W50... until the summer. That'll never hold in SoFL summers past 5k miles. I can probably run 5W50 in the AMG no problem though.
maw
Both of your long noses have more room in the engine bay so they may not run as hot. And the 4.2L 5v is all aluminum so it likely expands and contracts, unlike these steel blocks.
I also had good success with 5W50... until the summer. That'll never hold in SoFL summers past 5k miles. I can probably run 5W50 in the AMG no problem though.
maw
Last edited:
Only way to find out is to ask their tech department, or find a VOA posted on BITOG, or use it and see what appears in the UOA. My guess is both will be in the 1000-1200 range.
Is there a reason you need 10W-50 specifically? In general you want to keep the spread between numbers smaller, as that typically means it has less VI's.
maw, the Powersports stuff is meant for small engines (ATV's, snowmobiles) that have no catalysts. Those oils have extremely high ZDDP levels which would probably kill an automotive catalyst quickly. Very, very different additive packages vs their normal High Performance line.
Dave,
Your point is very valid indeed, but for me, for simplicity sake basically. The w202, w211 and my Volvo all in agreement for 5w40, works great for all weather, all temps. R129 loves the 50 weight, but does not like 15-20 starting point in the very cold winter days, but does well with 10. Considering that it gets about 5k miles per year, I really don't want to change oils in it just for the weather, one for the summer, one for the winter, just want to drive it.
At the same time, S2, Porsche's recommendation for oil, particularly for 944/968 cars is that very 10w50, so I can use it in both cars, buy it in bulk with free shipping and use year around in S2 and SL, this 10w50 seem like the "sweet range" for me for the weather/miles
BTW, the, redline responded, and as you said, spot on with those numbers
Regards,
D
Awesome. Dave Granquist has been at Redline forever! (At least 2 decades....). He is a gem. A few years ago, he last calculated this for me:
"A mixture of 75% 75W90NS and 25% 75W140NS would increase the viscosity at 100°C, an assumed operating temperature to 17.8cSt about 15% increase. That could make a slight difference, though hard to know if significant or sufficient.
A 50% mixture of each would give a viscosity of 20.39cSt, about 30% increase in viscosity.
It would be a matter of experimenting to determine the best compromise for your noise and operating conditions."
High (non-powersports) ZDDP oils are not required for the M104 and M119 due to the valvetrain setup and geometry, which is much lower friction and a better design than the M117/M103's cam-follower design, which requires the ZDDP to stop premature wear.
You can easily get away with any "normal" and current-spec oil for an M119 with zero issues. I've been using Chevron DELO 400 on my M104s for many many years, and they've been regularly reducing the ZDDP in that diesel-spec oil for the past 15 years. Zero issues with that.
That said, I do use RedLine 15W-50 in my E500, and it as we know has very very adequate ZDDP. Certainly doesn't hurt the M119 to have good amounts of ZDDP, but it is NOT a requirement for it like it is with the M117.
You can easily get away with any "normal" and current-spec oil for an M119 with zero issues. I've been using Chevron DELO 400 on my M104s for many many years, and they've been regularly reducing the ZDDP in that diesel-spec oil for the past 15 years. Zero issues with that.
That said, I do use RedLine 15W-50 in my E500, and it as we know has very very adequate ZDDP. Certainly doesn't hurt the M119 to have good amounts of ZDDP, but it is NOT a requirement for it like it is with the M117.
Do you have a link? I can't find Castrol Edge 5w-50 on their website. Only 5w40.
Sorry for the delay @Jlaa, I stepped away from the computer.
Drop down the main menu and select "Coupons and Deals". The discount is applied after you put the items in your Cart.
Cheers,
maw
EDIT... also, I put the wrong store. Advanced Auto Parts. Post above corrected...
They run that 5w50 special often… it’s an odd spec that people aren’t looking for… I’ll keep an eye out… I learned about yesterday’s sale from the E46M guys because of the 10w60.
maw
Last edited:
I run 5W40 Amsoil in my '95 E500. Ran either the Amsoil or Mobil1 0W40 for nearly 200k in my '92 500E before car got rear-ended. I took motor apart somewhat and it looked great inside.
Advance running 50% off on Liqui Moly now, but only 5w30 (Volvo, Mini, etc) Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance
And Chevron Delo 5w40 Full Synthetic Diesel... which I think some use in regular gasoline engines including 500E. For a 5k mile "engine wash" that might be a good deal.
maw
maw
Big fan of Amsoil 5W40 - factory approved, and in my largely stored '95 E500 it flows out looking just like it went in! I also run the same oil in our SLK55 and our E63S Estate, and both of these cars consume less Amsoil between changes than they did when I ran Mobil 1
Yep, I put it in my super duty 7.3 with 346,000 miles on it. It seems to like it just fine. I would not use it on my OM648 E320CDI because zinc and cats don't get along.
For my M119 cars, I've been using Mobil 1 15W50 since 2004 and my cars love it. I tried 0W40 or 5W40 once and it didn't seem as happy.
Assuming you both mean the Kirkland 15W-40 HD diesel oil (not 10W-), it doesn't have high zinc levels. Should be no issue for cats. Pretty much the only oils that have enough zinc to harm catalysts are labeled "Racing" and have ZDDP levels >1500 ppm. Won't have that in a CK-4 rated oil.
M-1 15W-50 is good stuff for a Group III oil, just don't attempt extended drain intervals with it. @Jlaa / #JITOG.
I would not run anything 0W in an M119, ever. Even a 5W ... only if you live in a cold climate.
10W and 15W are excellent and the M119 loves them. Remember the M119 comes from the day when thicker oils were commonly spec'd by MB, due to tolerances. M119s aren't particularly happy with 0Ws/5Ws. Year round, a 10W or 15W fills the bill. I still run 20W-50 on my 560SEC, even here in Maryland. Though I will probably go down to 10W-40 next oil change. 15W-40 diesel oil for the M104, Texas or Maryland. RedLine 15W-50 in my E500.
10W and 15W are excellent and the M119 loves them. Remember the M119 comes from the day when thicker oils were commonly spec'd by MB, due to tolerances. M119s aren't particularly happy with 0Ws/5Ws. Year round, a 10W or 15W fills the bill. I still run 20W-50 on my 560SEC, even here in Maryland. Though I will probably go down to 10W-40 next oil change. 15W-40 diesel oil for the M104, Texas or Maryland. RedLine 15W-50 in my E500.
YUP! That is what I use in all my Mercedes engines, gas & diesel. Good stuff. I buy from Summit Racing or Jegs in 4-gallon cases, even better when they have a coupon of some sort off $xxx purchase. For a low-use car, 5kmi over several years is fine, and the UOA confirms it.
Really, this should end with a full stop. Extended oil changes are for fleet managers, not enthusiasts
...and also people who don't want to spend their Saturdays changing oil that doesn't need to be changed. Er, I mean "doesn't need changed", as the kids today would say. There's nothing wrong with changing every 12 months or 3kmi, whichever comes first, but I have better things to do with my time.
Nah, only half a Saturday. I go through a roll of paper towels and maybe a toothbrush or two while it's on the lift, so it takes me longer.
I use a 10k interval on our daily-driver 1994 E420 which works out to about every 2.0-2.5 years. It uses less than 1 quart, I don't add oil between 10k changes, and the UOA comes back fine. Cars that consume more, yeah... wouldn't make sense!
At the risk of getting flamed, even though it is still a W124, I bow to the great 500E owners and beg your pardon if I ask on W124 Diesel engines like OM602 how this entire discussion applies? Is ZDDP a matter on those engines, or can I do my usual Rotella T6? Or other recommendations?
The OM60x diesels have camshafts which directly contact the lifters, same as M119 and M104. High levels of ZDDP (~1500) are not required as on the M117. Rotella T6, being a diesel-specific oil, is fine. They claim the 15W-40 has MB 228.31 approval. In general just make sure you use a diesel-rated (Cx) oil for your MB diesel. Don't worry about ZDDP levels. For extended drains you will need to get UOA with soot levels, which generally are the limiting factor.
Yeah… lately on some of these cars I’ve been on 2 year intervals which is maybe 5k miles if I add them all up…I use a 10k interval on our daily-driver 1994 E420 which works out to about every 2.0-2.5 years. It uses less than 1 quart, I don't add oil between 10k changes, and the UOA comes back fine. Cars that consume more, yeah... wouldn't make sense!
… I just feel dilatory so I change the oil… good to know 2 years has the @gsxr seal of approval.maw
FYI. Mobil, as of May 2022, has reformulated many of their Mobil-1 viscosities to conform to GF6A to combat turbocharger-induced low speed preignition.Re: OWNER: Ertech
Klink, thanks for the tip! I didnt realize M-1 had reduced the ZDDP levels in the 10W-40 formula, by 200ppm each, sometime in the past 2 years. Current Mobil spec sheet (Feb-2018) PDF attached plus screen shots. Older spec sheets available here. The M-1 15W-50 still retains politically incorrect levels of ZDDP, as does M-1 0W-40 FS (not to be confused with M-1 0W-40 ESP, or any other version of 0W-40). Remeber, all the Mobil-1 products in xW-40 or xW-50 viscosity are Group III synthetics, which is why they are cheap. If you change at 3k-5kmi, they are fine.
Red Line 10W-40 still has ZDDP levels in the 1000-1200 range based on multiple UOAs from my engines over the past few years, plus they use moly and some Group V (ester) base stocks, which makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Available at Jegs or Summit Racing for ~$48/gallon, free shipping over $99.
FWIW: The Mercedes dealer 5W-40 oil specd for the AMG M156 engine (with similar valvetrain design as the M119) has relatively low ZDDP levels, ~800 P, ~1000 Zn (based on UOA). The M119 valvetrain doesnt really need a super high ZDDP levels like the M117, but I still dont like low-ZDDP emissions-friendly oils.
Understanding ILSAC GF-6 | Mobil™ Motor Oils
Learn more about the new ILSAC GF-6 oil standards and what they mean for your engine.
www.mobil.com
Mobil-1 15W-50 seem to have been unaffected --- still at 1200/1300 Phosphorous/Zinc but now with SN+ rather than just SN approval from 2018
Mobil-1 10w-40 seems to have gone from 800/900 P/Z to 800/870 P/Z (and no GF6A)
Mobil-1 FS 0w-40 also seems untouched:
On sale till this weekend… $8 off.
Cheaper in the warehouse by $1 if one is close to you.
It is 15w-4” and not 10w as I had mistyped previously and gsxr corrected it.
I'll have to get some as I use it in my 7.3 powestroke diesel. Then when I go 15,000 miles in it. I drain it and pour it into my Mercedes
Here is Mobil-1 product information on ZDDP/Phosphorous in pdf format from the following years that Mobil released this info:
- 2009
- 2010
- 2011
- 2013
- 2014
- 2016
- 2018
- 2019
- 2022
Last edited:
Pretty sure that this is what I'm using on the 7.3 Powerstroke. I think I read somewhere that it's made by Warren Oil. I think that it's fine for older Mercedes with M117/M110 engines. On the M119, I've almost always used M1 15W50 and on the M113's, always M1 0W40. I tried 0W40 on the M119 once and it didnt sound as quite or as smooth.
This one popped up on FB, and from all the places - Blaufergnugen! Now, back in the 90's that was the place for Audi and VW part and modifications, now, seem just a parts place... Anywho, Eurol Syndura?
Never heard of it:
"Syndura is specially designed for new Mercedes-Benz engines, gasoline or diesel, where Mercedes-Benz requires an MB 229.5 specification and extended drain intervals. The fully synthetic motor oil is also suitable for many other gasoline and diesel engines in passenger cars and light-duty commercial vehicles without particulate filters. This oil is advised for vehicles equipped with catalytic converters, turbocharged engines, and for direct fuel injection systems to reduce oil and fuel consumption.
Eurol Syndura 5W-40 provides an extremely quick and stable lubricant film at the cold start and offers high thermal stability under heavy-duty operating conditions.
Eurol Syndura 5W-40 not only offers extremely good wear protection but also protects against rust and corrosion, while special additives keep all parts free from dirt, sludge, and deposits.
Eurol Syndura 5W-40 offers fuel-saving properties and can be mixed with both synthetic and mineral motor oils."
About same price point as Liqui Moly...
1L - E100084 | Eurol Syndura 5W-40
Fully synthetic oil for gasoline and diesel engines, with or without turbo
eurol.com
Never heard of it:
"Syndura is specially designed for new Mercedes-Benz engines, gasoline or diesel, where Mercedes-Benz requires an MB 229.5 specification and extended drain intervals. The fully synthetic motor oil is also suitable for many other gasoline and diesel engines in passenger cars and light-duty commercial vehicles without particulate filters. This oil is advised for vehicles equipped with catalytic converters, turbocharged engines, and for direct fuel injection systems to reduce oil and fuel consumption.
Eurol Syndura 5W-40 provides an extremely quick and stable lubricant film at the cold start and offers high thermal stability under heavy-duty operating conditions.
Eurol Syndura 5W-40 not only offers extremely good wear protection but also protects against rust and corrosion, while special additives keep all parts free from dirt, sludge, and deposits.
Eurol Syndura 5W-40 offers fuel-saving properties and can be mixed with both synthetic and mineral motor oils."
About same price point as Liqui Moly...
Why diesel oil? is 5W40 ok for 115º weather?
In the past, diesel oil generally had a better additive package, and/or higher amounts of ZDDP. This has been changing with the newer diesel oils which are designed for new, low-emission diesel engines. Some diesel oils may still have the "good" stuff, others may not. Lots of research required to figure this out, if you are concerned about it. That said... the M119 engine does not require high ZDDP levels, and if you are changing the oil at 3-5kmi intervals, don't lose sleep over it. This is a bigger concern if you are extending oil change intervals to 7-10kmi or beyond.
Technically, yes, 5W-40 is acceptable for high ambient temps per the factory viscosity chart. However in a very hot climate like that, I'd probably use a 15W-50 or 20W-50 synthetic. Those would also be ok at temps around freezing for year-round use.
I never knew there was such a science to engine oil. I used RedLine in my diesel Peugeot. I've been using Lucas oil in the 500E and RR, it's pretty thick stuff. I made a few calls trying to find RedLine oil. Their website is out-of-stock and I couldn't find any oil anywhere in Scottsdale/PHX or the usual internet sites. I couldn't find the (good) oil filters either. So I didn't change the oil before I take it up the mountain. The temps here are still over 110º, was 114º today. Tell me a brand that's easier to find than RedLine. This is all new to me. I called Schumacher Mercedes and they suggested MobilOne, but I see it's not one of your favorites. I'll change the oil when I get back down the mountain.
Red Line is usually pretty good about answering tech questions via phone or email. However, Red Line increased their prices substantially at the end of 2022. I would typically buy from Summit or Jegs as they would have a discount on orders over $200 or something like that, and Red Line never goes on sale. With the price jumping from ~$50/gal to ~$66/gal (~$12/qt to ~$16/qt)... I have a hard time recommending Red Line for daily-driver use, due to the cost. I still like Red Line for high performance / forced induction / racing applications, or if a $150 oil change in your budget.
Hengst, Mann, Mahle, or Knecht are all acceptable OEM filters for the M119. However, the OE/dealer filter is reasonably priced from discount dealers. I buy a few at a time with other parts to get free shipping and just use the OE filter. Otherwise, any of those four OEM brands are fine. Currently $10/ea at Naperville (link), free shipping over $100 with code 500EPROMO.
Mobil-1 is a decent oil, just not on the same level as Red Line. My gripe with Mobil-1 is from 15+ years ago when they quietly cheapened the base stock without lowering the price. Not cool. However, it's a good-performing oil as long as you change it by around 5kmi. I use Mobil-1 in my daily driver / beater E420.
In high temperatures like yours, I'd probably use Mobil-1 15W-50 which is available at most Walmarts, under $30 for a 5-qt jug, less than half the cost of Red Line. Other local auto part stores should also carry this but they may not have the 5qt jugs, and it's a LOT more expensive to buy single quarts (~$9/qt instead of <$6/qt). Amazon also has the 5qt jugs, currently $27 (link).
Just remember that the 5qt jugs are not gallons! Don't pour two of them into your 8-quart sump...
Exactly my observation/thoughts... I still use it in R129 and Porsche (15w50 for both), but these get oil changes only x1 per year, so I feel that the expense is justified...
I just got tired of chasing good oils on sale, and been using Mobil-1 in the daily cars, and still do (5W40 is now in both W211 cars, Volvo and was in W202 until I sold it). Mobile-1 I used exclusively in W202 and I've had it most of it's life... When the valve covers were pulled of M112 to replace the gaskets, heads literally looked brand new (I've had the car for well over 100K miles, not even a stain), but religiously changed every 5k miles, and still do all the remaining cars.
Between regulations, cost reduction and car manufacturer's requirements; engine oil is a sciences by itself!
I am learning a lot about oils as I try to find the best formula for the Red Baron and the 800HP E63. Since our cars don't do 10Kkm a year nor extreme cold starts, protection and performance is the priority. I switched to high quality High-SAPS motorsport engine oils
I am learning a lot about oils as I try to find the best formula for the Red Baron and the 800HP E63. Since our cars don't do 10Kkm a year nor extreme cold starts, protection and performance is the priority. I switched to high quality High-SAPS motorsport engine oils
My E500 had a really faint (ticking) sound coming from the engine. I tried different makes of oil, but the sound did not go away. But Redline did disappear. I have been using Redline 10W-40 ever since.
The downside is that it is expensive. I don't drive 1,200 miles a year, but I change it once a year.
The downside is that it is expensive. I don't drive 1,200 miles a year, but I change it once a year.
I have been running Mobil Delvac 1300 super 15w-40 in my 92 500E with 134k miles, for the past 2 years. The car sees about 2500k miles a year max, changing oil once a year. I drive it year round, residing north of Atlanta. I have no complaints from the oil at all. However, after reading through the oil discussions on here, my concern is the high ZDDP levels with this oil on the m119 and the catalyst. What are your thoughts on this? Furthermore, what are your thoughts on running this weight in the winter in my region?
