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The $400 400E

I received the Glyco 71-3477 rod bearings I'd ordered. Those are for the M116 engine. I'm sad to report that they won't work on the M119. They are dimensionally correct, but the positioning tangs are on the wrong side. It might be possible to modify the rod to accommodate these bearings, but they will not work without some alterations.
 
Wait, are these rod bearings, or main bearings?

I thought the MB rod bearings were available, but the main bearings were not.

⁉️
 
Wait, are these rod bearings, or main bearings?

I thought the MB rod bearings were available, but the main bearings were not.
Yeah, I wasn't super clear about what I ordered.

These are Glyco rod bearings. I also ordered main bearings. The MB rod bearings are available, but I ran across these Glyco rod bearings and I thought they might work. They were cheap so I ordered them. No dice. I'll have to get MB rod bearings from Germany.

I also ordered a set of Glyco main bearings. Those are still on the way. We'll see whether those will work after they arrive.
 
Anyone have any recommendations for a good MB dealer to work with for OE parts? Naperville is getting worse and worse. It took them weeks to let me know the main bearings weren't available. Are there any other discount dealers people are commonly using that have decent customer service and will ship?
 
I wish Naperville would get their issues sorted out. I don't know if they need to hire extra help or what (seems that way), but having to phone in a couple days after placing an order is not good CRM.

I had used Husker in the past with good results (and, their pricing is better, cost plus 21% instead of 24% off list). However, I believe @TimL has recently had poor customer service from them as well - don't think I'd recommend Husker right now.

The others I know of with decent pricing are below. I believe @Jlaa has had good results with Laredo (TX)? I've also ordered from Covington (LA). Shipping costs can vary dramatically, so cross-shop both. Ed Hicks is a flat cost plus 20% which is excellent - their S&H is high, but they claim the amount show is an estimate, not actual - hmmm:

MB of Laredo:

MB of Covington:

Ed Hicks Imports, Corpus Christi, TX:
 
Almost forgot - did you contact Metric Motors in SoCal to inquire about M119 bearings available for purchase?
 
I emailed. They never replied.
Yeah... I've had bad luck with email to multiple different companies in multiple different product sectors (not just automotive). Probably would be more helpful to call and chat with a live person on the phone.

Related anecdote: My home weather station died last week. I submitted a support ticket through their website and received an automated email with a ticket number for tracking. I responded with additional info they requested. No response for days. Earlier this week I followed up with another email. Still nothing. Called on the phone today and had the issue resolved in 5 minutes with a super helpful person (I'm sending in the failed sensor array, they will ship a replacement upon receipt). Still have no idea what is going on with their email.

:oldman:
 
Yeah... I've had bad luck with email to multiple different companies in multiple different product sectors (not just automotive). Probably would be more helpful to call and chat with a live person on the phone.

Related anecdote: My home weather station died last week. I submitted a support ticket through their website and received an automated email with a ticket number for tracking. I responded with additional info they requested. No response for days. Earlier this week I followed up with another email. Still nothing. Called on the phone today and had the issue resolved in 5 minutes with a super helpful person (I'm sending in the failed sensor array, they will ship a replacement upon receipt). Still have no idea what is going on with their email.

:oldman:
Yeah, I'm just skeptical that they'll have the parts for a price I'd be willing to pay, so I'm not yet desperate enough to make the effort to actually call.
 
I'm finishing up swapping the cams out of my beater 500SEL today and trying to decide what to do about timing chain guides. This car will probably only do 500-1000 miles total before it gets parted out for good. The timing chain guides are all broken. The uppers on the cam towers are essentially gone.

Am I going to do any serious harm if I run it without replacing those guides? I have guides I was planning to put in the engine I'm putting together for the 400E, but I don't particularly want to have to replace them if I don't need to.
 
I'm finishing up swapping the cams out of my beater 500SEL today and trying to decide what to do about timing chain guides. This car will probably only do 500-1000 miles total before it gets parted out for good. The timing chain guides are all broken. The uppers on the cam towers are essentially gone.

Am I going to do any serious harm if I run it without replacing those guides? I have guides I was planning to put in the engine I'm putting together for the 400E, but I don't particularly want to have to replace them if I don't need to.
Do you mean the "fingered" clips between the two sprockets on each side? I wouldn't run the engine without those... new ones were quite inexpensive, last time I checked. Most of the guides are inexpensive...
 
Do you mean the "fingered" clips between the two sprockets on each side? I wouldn't run the engine without those... new ones were quite inexpensive, last time I checked. Most of the guides are inexpensive...
Yes, the main part that bolts to the cam towers is broken and the lower part that snaps over it is completely gone on both sides. It's been running like that obviously and I didn't notice any serious issues, but l don't really know what exactly to look for.

Just hoping not to spend the $50 or so on a car I'm about to part out anyway.
 
Yes, the main part that bolts to the cam towers is broken and the lower part that snaps over it is completely gone on both sides. It's been running like that obviously and I didn't notice any serious issues, but l don't really know what exactly to look for.
Whoa - I've never seen the main part broken! Those are usually fine. Can you borrow them from a different engine temporarily? THe "fingered" pieces, if new, can be re-used multiple times if you are careful removing them. Old ones are brittle and will break if you look at them wrong.


Just hoping not to spend the $50 or so on a car I'm about to part out anyway.
Totally understand. Maybe buy new ones for the beater, then swap them over to the "good" engine when the beater is parted out?
 
All that is left

1000006096.jpg
I don't think I saved any from any of my other engines. I'll dig around and see. I'm hoping to have the 400E engine swap completed before I part out to 500SEL, so that wouldn't work. Oh well. I guess it's not the end of the world to put new ones in. At the end of the day they can become spares.
 
Well, I installed the guides I had for the 400E. I'll order some more.

I noticed the belt tensioner on the 500SEL had some non-standard springs attached to it. I pulled the tensioner off and found that the rubber bushing had failed and someone had just attached heavy springs between the tensioner arm and its adjusting screw to maintain belt tension. Honestly bot a terrible hack workaround. It was working.

This is of course a 92 with an 8 rib belt and manually adjusted tensioner. Rather than reinstall the springs, or buy a new tensioner, I decided to try my own hack solution.

I knocked the center out of the tensioner and I'm planning to make a new set of solid inserts to replace the bearings and bushing. The original design is bizarre. I understand how it works, but I can't fathom why Mercedes felt it was necessary or sufficient to do it that way.

In any case, I can't think of any reason why locking out the damper and relying solely on the adjuster rod to set belt tension would be a problem. Anybody have any experience with this or any thoughts?
 
I suspect there are some shock loads to the belt which are absorbed by the rubber bushing. A solid bushing might not be a good idea, unless you want to find out where the failure point might be?

Better solution is to convert to the late style spring-loaded tensioner, which is a far better design, and an extremely low failure rate. This either requires converting all pulleys (and AC bracket?) to the 6-rib design, or modifying the tensioner with a wider pulley. A forum member did this something like 10 years ago and posted a thread on how to do it.

:banana1:
 
I would think 8 rib pulleys would be fine, but brackets and things for the later design would be required. I'm running a 6 rib belt on my 400E with a mix of 8 rib and 6 rib pulleys since I wasn't able to track down an 8 rib smog pump at the time.

The bigger issue is that this car doesn't have the mounting boss on the timing cover.

I'm pretty confident the belt drive will be fine without the bushing. Lots of cars have serpentine belt tensioners that use a threaded jack screw and then lock the tensioner pulley in place rigidly once the adjustment is made. It's possible that belts and pulleys might take a bit more stress without the bushing, but I think it will be fine. We'll find out.
 
OHHH. No mounting boss on the timing cover is a dealbreaker for the late tensioner. Bummer.
 
I whipped up a couple inserts that could take the place of the bearings, sleeves, and bushings. I drilled and tapped for a couple set screws to keep the insert from rotating in the housing. It's installed now. Belt tension is good. We'll see how things hold up. This is just for the 500SEL Gambler 500 car, so I don't expect to put a ton of miles on it, but if it lasts 500-1000 miles I'll be happy.


1000006098.jpg

1000006101.jpg

1000006102.jpg
 
Well, the 500SEL is back together and running with the 95 camshafts and the solid belt tensioner. The whole ignition system needed to be replaced. I had most of what I needed sitting in storage. I installed the NGK plug wires on the 400E and installed the old wires from the 400E on the 500SEL. I starts right up and runs. I still haven't driven it yet though.

Here's the main concern at the moment. This thing smokes like a choo choo train. It's bananas.

I did a compression test and all 8 cylinders are 150-160 psi. It runs smooth and idles well. When I rev the engine, it will rev cleanly to about 4500 RPMs, and then kind of bog there. This is just sitting in park, so I don't really know what to make of that.

I'm thinking all the oil sludge buildup throughout the motor may be a big part of the problem. I'm hoping that maybe the oil control rings are stuck and not functioning properly due to all the funk.

I poured a can of Seafoam into the crankcase and have had the car idling for 30 minutes or so. It smokes a little at idle, but when I rev it the smoke show is insane. My neighbors actually came over to make sure my house wasn't on fire. Fortunately they just laughed when they realized it was just more automotive nonsense.

Any thoughts what might be causing the excessive smoking? It is bad enough that I'd get pulled over immediately if I tried to actually drive it.
 
Here's the main concern at the moment. This thing smokes like a choo choo train. It's bananas.
What color smoke? Blue oil smoke? White? Gray? etc. Any sign of burning oil - fouled plugs?


I did a compression test and all 8 cylinders are 150-160 psi. It runs smooth and idles well. When I rev the engine, it will rev cleanly to about 4500 RPMs, and then kind of bog there. This is just sitting in park, so I don't really know what to make of that.
There's a rev limit with the gear selector in P or N, details are in the FSM somewhere. You'll need to drive it and see if it pulls cleanly to 6000rpm.



Any thoughts what might be causing the excessive smoking? It is bad enough that I'd get pulled over immediately if I tried to actually drive it.
Maybe check the PCV system? The little gaskets with square holes were present between the valve covers and top chain rails, correct?

:detective:
 
What color smoke? Blue oil smoke? White? Gray? etc. Any sign of burning oil - fouled plugs?
Looks pretty blue to me. I have essentially no sense of smell, so I'm at a disadvantage there. Pretty sure it's oil smoke though.

There's a rev limit with the gear selector in P or N, details are in the FSM somewhere. You'll need to drive it and see if it pulls cleanly to 6000rpm.
That almost certainly explains that.

Maybe check the PCV system? The little gaskets with square holes were present between the valve covers and top chain rails, correct?
PCV is my suspicion at this point. I don't recall there being gaskets between the valve covers and the top chain rails. I certainly didn't install any new ones, so unless they were already there I'd assume they're absent.

I've disconnected the PCV hoses to test and the smoke is still there.

I'm trying to figure out exactly how the PCV system is supposed to work. The large hose from the ETA is the inlet for the PCV, right? As in, the crankcase pulls clean air from the ETA. The left side vacuum port is where gases are extracted from the crankcase, right? And the two hoses on either side of the intake manifold are what draw the gases in for combustion, right? So if I've unplugged that hose from the valve cover and plugged it, that should remove PCV from the picture I would think. Am I missing something?

I'm changing the oil right now. It was probably overfilled, which I'm sure wasn't helping. I'm skeptical that it was the entire cause, but I'm satisfied that the crankcase is reasonably flushed at this point, so we'll see if fresh oil, filled to the correct level makes any difference.
 
Interesting. When it's cold it's nearly smoke free. When it warms up it looks like a chimney fire. The oil change didn't make much difference. Still pretty bad.

I took at around the block. The rear suspension is totally collapsed and the transmission can't decide what it wants to do. This thing is junk.
 
I'm trying to figure out exactly how the PCV system is supposed to work. The large hose from the ETA is the inlet for the PCV, right? As in, the crankcase pulls clean air from the ETA. The left side vacuum port is where gases are extracted from the crankcase, right? And the two hoses on either side of the intake manifold are what draw the gases in for combustion, right? So if I've unplugged that hose from the valve cover and plugged it, that should remove PCV from the picture I would think. Am I missing something?
I think that's correct. Full description and flow diagram is here.



When it's cold it's nearly smoke free. When it warms up it looks like a chimney fire. The oil change didn't make much difference. Still pretty bad.
That's odd. Are the plugs fouled?


I took at around the block. The rear suspension is totally collapsed and the transmission can't decide what it wants to do. This thing is junk.
How bad is the ATF? Can you shift manually to survive the LeMons type event?
 
I think that's correct. Full description and flow diagram is here.
That's pretty much what I thought. I have #4 and #5 disconnected and it still does it, so I'm pretty sure PCV is out of the picture.

That's odd. Are the plugs fouled?
They were pretty nasty. I've installed new plugs though.

How bad is the ATF? Can you shift manually to survive the LeMons type event?
Eh, I've seen better and I've seen worse. I'm not super worried about it at this stage.
 
At this point I'm reasonably confident the issue is stuck oil control rings. This car clearly didn't get proper oil changes and the coke crud throughout is likely in the oil rings.

I pulled the plugs out and sprayed an entire can of Seafoam foam spray into the cylinders, then added probably 4 ounces of Marvel Mystery Oil to each cylinder. I'll turn the crank by hand a few degrees back and forth every few hours for the next couple days.

I'll get plates for it in the next day or two so I'm legal.

After that I'll suck the remaining liquid out and reinstall the plugs and go give it the beans. I'm sure it will be a smoke show but I really think this thing has the potential to be a decent runner.
 
@Beater400E,
Check the vacuum check valve to the brake booster. I had an old Mercedes that was sucking brake fluid into the engine. It looked just like your garage. It wouldn’t take but a few minutes.
Also check the vacuum line from the trans vacuum modulator, to the intake manifold... this can pull ATF into the engine if the modulator diaphragm has failed. Both scenarios are long shots, but worth checking.

Next step after your soaking regime is a bunch of WOT pulls to the redline somewhere way out of town.

:tumble:
 
Also check the vacuum line from the trans vacuum modulator, to the intake manifold... this can pull ATF into the engine if the modulator diaphragm has failed. Both scenarios are long shots, but worth checking.
I did check that. No leak there.

Next step after your soaking regime is a bunch of WOT pulls to the redline somewhere way out of town.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.
 
I'm happy to report that MB Laredo (mbpartsource.com) came through for me with the rod bearings. I have a full set of 111-038-09-10 bearings in my hands.

These are correct for the M119. Yes, the top and bottom halves are identical. You just use a bearing with an oil hole on both the top and bottom half. You do need to order a quantity of 16. There are 2 in a box, but each half counts as a quantity of 1.

1000006107.jpg
 
I finally received my Glyco main bearings.

These are Glyco H801/5 STD bearings. They are standard size bearings for the M116/M117 engines. They are the 21mm wide bearings, as expected, and they do have the "fit" bearing for the #3 main journal, meaning the thrust surfaces are an integrated part of the bearing.

From what I can tell so far, these will work perfectly in the M119. I've taken a few measurements and they're all spot on.

I'll take some more measurements before preparing for actual assembly, and I'll share my findings along the way. I'm pretty optimistic that these are going to work though.
 
I finally got a chance to get the 500SEL out and give it a good hard run. It took probably 10 full throttle 10-80 mph rips, along with some deliberate engine braking, but eventually the smoke did clear up. The Marvel Mystery Oil soak probably helped, but the Italian tune up was what really got it.

The engine has a significant oil leak though. There was oil all over under the hood at the end of the run. I think it might be coming from the end plate on the front of the left cylinder head. That cylinder head is covered in oil, along with the timing cover and the back of the power steering reservoir. It didn't leak while idling, but it apparently leaks badly at WOT.

I'm guessing I didn't get that front cover sealed.

While I was tinkering with it today, FedEx showed up and delivered... the original order I'd placed with Naperville more than a month ago for main and rod bearings. The order they told me was NLA, and so we canceled.

I checked my PayPal account and saw that they did indeed charge me for it about a week ago. I called Naperville and the guy told me he was working the parts department by himself and has a line of people out the door and that he'd call me back. Haven't heard back yet.

Not sure what I'll do. At this point I have the Glyco main bearings and a full set of OE rod bearings. Now I have OE main bearings and another 8 rod bearings, all of which I believe are made by Glyco anyway.

I'm also very displeased with the fact that the rod bearings were just loose in a plastic bag, free to bang around against each other and mar the bearing surfaces. I definitely don't want the rod bearings.

I don't know whether I should try to return the main bearings or not. They're apparently impossible to source, but I don't need them.
 
Wow. That’s real sh*t customer service.

Makes me even less likely to use Naperville in the future.

I’d like to think you’ll be able to return the rod bearings, but I guess you’ll actually have to have them call you back first. 🙄
 
Wow. That’s real sh*t customer service.

Makes me even less likely to use Naperville in the future.

I’d like to think you’ll be able to return the rod bearings, but I guess you’ll actually have to have them call you back first. 🙄
I went ahead and opened a case with PayPal so I'm sure that will get their attention. The guy I've talked to there is very polite and helpful, but it seems like he's the only one there. It's a management issue. They need to hire enough staff to provide decent service.
 
It didn't leak while idling, but it apparently leaks badly at WOT. I'm guessing I didn't get that front cover sealed.
I'm trying to think of what would leak at high oil pressure, but not at idle pressure, near the front cover. Might also be related to hot oil temps vs cold (idling in the driveway). I'd see if you can locate the source before taking things apart again.



While I was tinkering with it today, FedEx showed up and delivered... the original order I'd placed with Naperville more than a month ago for main and rod bearings. The order they told me was NLA, and so we canceled.

I checked my PayPal account and saw that they did indeed charge me for it about a week ago. I called Naperville and the guy told me he was working the parts department by himself and has a line of people out the door and that he'd call me back. Haven't heard back yet.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:



Not sure what I'll do. At this point I have the Glyco main bearings and a full set of OE rod bearings. Now I have OE main bearings and another 8 rod bearings, all of which I believe are made by Glyco anyway.
How do the OE M119 main bearings compare to the Glyco M116/M117?



I'm also very displeased with the fact that the rod bearings were just loose in a plastic bag, free to bang around against each other and mar the bearing surfaces. I definitely don't want the rod bearings.
That's insane. Did it appear this was done to reduce the shipping box size? Or did the bearings possibly arrive loose from the warehouse to Naperville?



I don't know whether I should try to return the main bearings or not. They're apparently impossible to source, but I don't need them.
Which part number main bearings did you receive?

:klink:
 
I'm trying to think of what would leak at high oil pressure, but not at idle pressure, near the front cover. Might also be related to hot oil temps vs cold (idling in the driveway). I'd see if you can locate the source before taking things apart again.
Yeah, I'll clean it all up and then see if I can recreate it in the shop or in a short drive. My guess is that is has to do with the quantity of oil pooled in the top end during sustained high RPM pulls.

That's insane. Did it appear this was done to reduce the shipping box size? Or did the bearings possibly arrive loose from the warehouse to Naperville?
My guess is they arrived that way from the warehouse. Actually, one pair of bearings I received from Laredo was like that too, but they were clearly handled more carefully since they weren't beat up. Incidentally, the parts from Laredo were also packaged with FAR more care than those I've received from Naperville in the past.

1000006122.jpg

Which part number main bearings did you receive?
A 119 030 04 40 54.

How do the OE M119 main bearings compare to the Glyco M116/M117?
They appear to be dimensionally the same. The OE bearings are also 21mm. The OE Bearings have a Glyco mark in them. The OE are made in Germany, where the Glyco are made in South Africa. The OE appear to be made to a finer tolerance than the Glyco. I'm confident either one would be fine to use, but the OE are certainly nicer.

1000006118.jpg

1000006119.jpg

1000006120.jpg

1000006121.jpg
 
I cleaned up all the oil mess, and then took the car for a short drive.

Fortunately for me, when I had everything apart to swap the cams, I removed the plastic plug wire spider and also didn't reinstall any of the plastic parts around the distributor caps, so I have easy access to see and clean everything. I didn't see any reason to reinstall those, and they were actually in good shape so I thought it wise to save them now before I go bounce this car around offroad.

When I returned from the test drive there was oil that appeared to be dribbling down from the cam sensor. I yanked the sensor out, cleaned everything up and reassembled with a new o ring. Took it back out for another drive and it was still leaking, but this time the source was clear.

1000006123.jpg
The oil is leaking from the timing chain guide pin.
So I guess I just need to figure out the best way to reseal that. I'd prefer not to have to disassemble a bunch of stuff to deal with it. Because I know that guide is broken, I also know that if I fully extract that pin the remaining half of the guide would drop down inside the motor, so I want to avoid that. I'm thinking maybe I could extract it halfway, goop it up with... something, and shove it back in. I'm hoping the pin itself isn't cracked and allowing oil through the inside.

Has anyone seen this kind of a leak before? I'll do some research and see what I can find, but if anyone has any experience with this I'd love to hear your thoughts.
 
I have a pretty good guess what's going on there. My guess is that the rail has been broken long enough that the chain has chewed through the pin, which is letting the oil out. Here's a screen shot I stole from The Friendly Neighborhood Technician on YouTube.

1000006124.jpg
 
I installed a set screw with thread sealer into the pin and the oil leak did stop, indicating that this is my problem.

I'm not willing to run the engine like that, so I've torn into it to replace that guide and those pins. I'm in deep enough now to see the pins and yeah, the chain has been chewing on them for a while.
 
I have a pretty good guess what's going on there. My guess is that the rail has been broken long enough that the chain has chewed through the pin, which is letting the oil out. Here's a screen shot I stole from The Friendly Neighborhood Technician on YouTube.
I was about to reply to the previous post telling you to check for this, but yep... that was my first guess. If the chain rails worn excessively, this can happen. Good idea to replace the guide & pin. Bad things may have occurred otherwise with metal-on-metal contact from the timing chain...

:duck:
 
Got the rail and pins replaced and got the car all back together. Runs great and doesn't leak oil any more. That was a long way to go for a $500 junker that's destined to be parted out but I have almost zero money in repairs and now I have another 5 liter engine that runs great. Maybe this one will be the start of a future stroker build.
 
The abandoned 95 E420 I'd spotted a few months ago at a grocery store is on FB marketplace. The guy says he's looking for trades or might be willing to sell it outright. He says the transmission is bad and the paint "needs a little polish."

Of course I've seen it in person and I know the clear coat is gone, the driver's seat is torn up, the back seat is missing, and it has vinyl wrap all over the wood grain in the interior.

I asked how much the guy wanted. He said he probably wouldn't let it go for less than 15-20k!
 

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