AMG and RENNtech swaybar reproductions

[gerryvz]

If ANYONE has an AMG E60 or RENNtech swaybar (front and/or rear), I'd like to "borrow" it so that I can pursue having a production run of bars made for those of us who want them. I have a source here in Houston that specializes in suspension that can do this.

Please follow up with me via email: gerry (at) vanzandt.us or via the PM function at http://www.500eboard.com/forums

I will be happy to pay shipping of the bar(s) to and from Houston. I think y'all know me as a pretty responsible feller, so you'd have a high level of assurance that things would be returned to you in proper order.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Glen]

Gerry, if you are able to have some bars manufactured, may I request that you make the rear bars adjustable? That is, instead of a single down-link attachment hole at the bar ends, have them extend the end and put three holes, with the center hole close to the stock location. This will allow us to fine tine over/under steer a bit.

 

[gsxr]

Gerry, if you are able to have some bars manufactured, may I request that you make the rear bars adjustable? That is, instead of a single down-link attachment hole at the bar ends, have them extend the end and put three holes, with the center hole close to the stock location. This will allow us to fine tine over/under steer a bit.

Glen, I'm having a hard time visualizing how multiple attachment holes would affect the rear sway bar performance, on the W124 rear bar. The rate of the bar changes how much it will twist, but the attachment point wouldn't change the twist - just the relative position. Also, wouldn't different-length end links achieve the same result? :?:

BTW, Gerry - any luck with the leads I sent on some sway bars near you in Houston?

 

[Glen]

Maybe this picture will help, I know it's a different car but I think it will illustrate what I'm asking for.

See how the down link is attached in the middle hole? That hole should be placed same as the stock bar. By selecting the hole on the left, you are effectively giving the suspension arm more leverage, which would "feel" like a smaller bar. By selecting the hole on the right, you shorten the arm, which would give the suspension less leverage...which will give the effect of a larger bar.

Changing the down link length would only change pre-load on the bar and really only have meaning when you are corner balancing a car. In that case, you need adjustable end links, not just different lengths.

 

[gsxr]

Glen,

I totally understand how it works in that photo you posted above. However, the W124 design is a little different. With the sharp turn on the W124 bar, I'm not sure if we could easily duplicate the adjustability shown in your photo.

Here are some pics of the W124 rear sway bar on the car, for reference:

 

[Glen]

I realize this isn't optimal, but it should still provide a measurable effect because the downward turn of the sway bar is sturdy enough to transmit force without flexing.

 

[gsxr]

Glen, that was how I envisioned it would need to be produced... with a horizontal row of holes. I'd want to verify there are no clearance issues when using the end holes, and also that the end link doesn't bind or become stressed when non-vertical. Interesting idea. I'd be happy with just a plain 20mm bar though.

 

[500AMM]

If ANYONE has an AMG E60 or RENNtech swaybar (front and/or rear), I'd like to "borrow" it so that I can pursue having a production run of bars made for those of us who want them. I have a source here in Houston that specializes in suspension that can do this.

Please follow up with me via email: gerry (at) vanzandt.us or via the PM function at http://www.500eboard.com/forums

I will be happy to pay shipping of the bar(s) to and from Houston. I think y'all know me as a pretty responsible feller, so you'd have a high level of assurance that things would be returned to you in proper order.

Cheers,
Gerry

Hi Gerry.

Any progress on this case? If it's possible I'm in for a 32mm front swaybar, á la RennTech type. Do the larger bushings follow this as a package? If overseas shipping is excluded, please let me know.

Many thanks.
-arnt-

 

[gerryvz]

Nope, no progress. I haven't been able to get my hands on one of the larger bars so that I can clone it.

When the production does happen (and it will...) I will be happy to send you a bar, Arnt. When I did the 300SEL 6.3 oilpan skidplate kits some years back, I think I ended up sending them to something like 8 different countries, as far away as South Africa and Australia. Shipping cost to Norway may be wacky, but my next-door neighbors are from Norway so I'll talk to them about the best way to do the logistics. They just returned from a 2-month holiday there

The kits will be complete and will include all bushings and hardware required. And instructions. I only ship COMPLETE kits when I do things.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[500AMM]

Hmmm - it may not be easy to find a larger swaybar to use as a template.
But do you really need one? Dave has made a good spreadsheet with dimensions on swaybars, and the shape on the swaybar cannot differ much from a standard swaybar, otherwise it doesn't fit. So IMO it should be possible to make these swaybars based on the information already available.

-arnt-

Norwegian neighbours sounds great. A couple swaybars as "hand luggage" on their next visit to Norway would be fine - Ha Ha...

 

[cm60k]

We all know The RENNTech sway bar is 31mm & provides "4" rubber mounts #: "129 323 01 85", 30mm, but im wondering why

some of SL AMGs uses rubber mounts #: "H WA 129 323 99 85" 32mm, at the end of the bar...?!?, and the "01 85" is a little

higher than the "H WA 99 85",, is that mean the SL AMGs sway bar is thicker in the end only.......!???!

ZAYED,,

 

[gsxr]

RENNtech W124 500E sway bar is 32mm at the center and 22mm at the ends. RENNtech supplies 30mm bushings for use with the 32mm bar, and they fit ok.

 

[cm60k]

Dave,

Are you sure RENNtech supplies 30mm bushings..??, cause when i saw my friend RENNtech bar kit, i notice they put an OE

"129 323 01 85" bushings.....!?, and what about the "H WA 129 323 99 85", do you have any idea about them......???

ZAYED,,

 

[gsxr]

Dean bought a new RENNtech bar a couple years ago. RENNtech supplied new OE Mercedes 129-323-01-85 bushings, which are 30mm. I am using the same bushings with my 32mm RENNtech sway bar.

I don't know anything about HWA-129-323-99-32 except that they are obscenely expensive ($105 USD list price, each).

 

[cm60k]

The strange thing that why RENNtech supplies there own 30mm bushings, although the OE is already 30mm, is it something

special with RENNtech bushings...?!?

ZAYED,,

 

[gsxr]

RENNtech supplies new OE "Genuine Mercedes" bushings. They are not custom RENNtech bushings. Plain off-the-shelf stuff you can get at any dealership. Although the bushings are 2mm smaller than the bar, they slide on without difficulty.

 

[need2speed]

Yeah, what Dave said

 

[gerryvz]

Since I haven't been able to get my hands on a new or used RT swaybar, I'm going to go ahead with Plan B and use an MB 036 bar as a model, and have a "larger" version commissioned.

 

[gsxr]

Since I haven't been able to get my hands on a new or used RT swaybar, I'm going to go ahead with Plan B and use an MB 036 bar as a model, and have a "larger" version commissioned.

Gerry, make sure they make it as shown in the photos, with just a few inches at the end at 22mm. I'd try to find a place that can make them in metric sizes, this could be a challenge as most will offer inch sizes. Although for a 32mm, that's 1.26", close enough for the front bar anyway. If you were to try and make a 20mm rear bar that would be tougher (1-51/64" is pretty close, lol).

 

[Cadence]

Since I haven't been able to get my hands on a new or used RT swaybar, I'm going to go ahead with Plan B and use an MB 036 bar as a model, and have a "larger" version commissioned.

Sign me up There are a number of North American sway bar mfgs that could easily handle this project.

I wonder if we could find a 31mm or 32mm bushing from another MBZ model? Using a 30mm bushing on a 32mm bar must add some resistance to the bar's movement, not a desirable side effect! On my cars I often go to great lengths to make sure the sway bar car rotate freely with two fingers (end links disconnected).

 

[gerryvz]

Yes, I'll do it as an exact reproduction of how the RT bar does it, with the small side close to the ends. I'm going to pick this project back up very shortly, and when I have substantive information to report in terms of costs, design, etc. I'll start a new thread. I will sell only complete kits (with bushings, etc.) that are ready for bolt-on, and I will sell (initially) them for my cost + shipping. It will be interesting to see what kind of a price break I can get. When I had the 6.3 skidplates, wheel chocks and emergency block brackets commissioned in the past (in Portland) I generally had to have at least 10-12 sets commissioned in order to get a decent price break.

I'm thinking with the sway bars I'd have at minimum 15 done, probably more like 20. I will sell them (as I mentioned) for a period of time for my cost + shipping, and anything sold after say a year after I have them made I will raise the price. This will be an incentive for people to buy the kits in the short term so that I can recoup my monetary investment relatively soon, and the people who wait around and sit on the fence will have to pay a bit more for the privilege.

You see the situation with the lower control arms - few people want to actually step forward and make the investment in the product; I guess they'd rather just spend the money on new tires and bling wheels for their cars. So to actually make this happen, I am going to have to front the money myself for the bars' production and hope that folks get their act together and buy them. And those who wait, will pay more.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[cm60k]

I wonder if we could find a 31mm or 32mm bushing from another MBZ model? Using a 30mm bushing on a 32mm bar must add some resistance to the bar's movement, not a desirable side effect!

Good point,,, "RENNtech 32.5mm VS E60 AMG 31mm" and both uses a same 30mm bushings..!!, i think its better if RENNTech go with

an AMG "H WA 129 323 99 85" 31.5mm bushings......!?!

ZAYED,,

 

[gsxr]

Whatever bushings are used, please make sure they are OE only, with the Teflon-impregnated inner liner like the 30mm bushings RENNtech supplies. I found the 30mm bushings to work perfectly without binding at all. I'm really not sure it's worth the time and effort to try and locate a slightly larger bushing from some other newer MB model, as the external dimensions (diameter & width) may not be correct (as seen in cm60k's pics above). I would not offer any urethane bushings at all; people who want that stuff can source it themselves and deal with the resulting noise problems.

 

[cm60k]

Sure Dave, the H WA bushings are also OE MB with Teflon inner, and its for all early & late SL AMGs ONLY,, do you know whats

the 500E/E500 "124 323 47 85" inner bushings dia........??

ZAYED,,

 

[gerryvz]

I agree 100% with GSXR. I will only use OE/MB bushings. In addition, I will have them personally blessed by HWA himself & sprinkled with well-water from the village of Grossaspach (which I visited this summer) before I get them shipped to the US. That should add significant value to the kits.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[500AMM]

....In addition, I will have them personally blessed by HWA himself & sprinkled with well-water from the village of Grossaspach....
Cheers,
Gerry

He, He - that sounds great Gerry!

If it's okay for you, I can check the interest among the 500-owners I know about here in Norway. I doubt it will be high numbers, probably a couple in addition to myself.

Ciao
Arnt

 

[500AMM]

Sure Dave, the H WA bushings are also OE MB with Teflon inner, and its for all early & late SL AMGs ONLY,, do you know whats

the 500E/E500 "124 323 47 85" inner bushings dia........??

ZAYED,,

Zayed,

Here are the dimensions on the OE swaybar bushings for 124036.

-arnt-

 

[cm60k]

Thats great, Thankss alot Arnt,:,

500E bar: "28mm" & bushings "28mm"

RENNtech bar: "32.5" & bushings "30mm"

*why RENNtech using "2.5mm" reduced bushings..!?, is that mean the bushings well be affected quickly...??, if so,, better if

RENNtech use the "H WA 31.5mm" bushings..!!

ZAYED,,

 

[gsxr]

Rubber, by nature, is flexible. There appears to be zero issues using a 30mm bushing on a 32mm bar, at least none on my car... maybe Dean can chime in with his experience. IMO it's not worth the extra cost or hassle. RENNtech probably came to the same conclusion. If you buy a swaybar kit from Gerry and it comes with 30mm bushings, you can always buy your own custom/special bushings if that's what you prefer...

 

[need2speed]

No issues with the standard bushings...don't worry!

 

[cm60k]

Surely its no issue ;no doubt;, but always we looking for the best things if it appears around us,, Is that the principle we must

to share with...!?!?!?

ZAYED,,

 

[AMGTesTDriverNJ]

Looking forward to this

 

[Cadence]

I will definitely buy one of these 32mm front bars!

 

[gerryvz]

Working this week on this. hope to have more to report by the weekend.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[500AMM]

Working this week on this. hope to have more to report by the weekend.

Cheers,
Gerry

Any news on this?

 

[500AMM]

Bumping this thread.

-arnt-

 

[gerryvz]

No time to work on it. Planning/prep for the Texas 500E meet coming up in two weekends......

 

[fudgitive]

Here's an E60 front bar on ebay.de, asking price 670 Euro!

These images came from the ebay listing, but I notice Dave already has the same pics up on his site anyway.


http://www.ebay.de/itm/Mercedes-W12..._Autoteile&hash=item2317afedcf#ht_1612wt_1338

 

[gsxr]

$1000 USD? They're nuts. With the RENNtech 32mm bar at $600 USD, the E60 bar is worth about half that - IMNSHO.

 

[borring]

Any news on the swaybars?

 

[Stevester 500E]

I would most likely but 3 sway bar kits, providing they would fit a 300ce as well. I would like one for my 500e, one set for my 300ce, and an extra.

Thanks. Please keep me in the loop.

 

[rol607]

What is latest on this?

 

[gerryvz]

No news ... Yet. Do not lose hope. There will be news.

 

[Jackasic]

just need a stock 124 bar and I can make what ever size you want.

 

[gerryvz]

A stock 124 bar won't work - needs to be a stock 500E bar due to some special bends for clearance.

 

[Stevester 500E]

So how about supplying a 500e swaybar to Jackasic and have him make the what ver size we want?
I lost track of the price when I lost hope, not that we are keeping hope alive, what are the $ per swaybar? What the minimum run?
BTW, Is 32 mm the magic number, or could it even be made thicker?
Cheers

 

[gerryvz]

I could give my bars to the Jack-man on a temporary basis.....he's about an hour and a half drive from me.

 

[gsxr]

You can make bars as thick as you want, but at some point, it will make the car handle worse, not better. AMG had 30mm and the ends tapered down just like the stock bars. RENNtech went to 32mm and did not taper at all, they just trimmed the end enough to use the stock 22mm bushing. I'm thinking 30-32mm is probably about the reasonable limit up front. A 20mm rear bar might help reduce understeer but installing that isn't fun, and it's interesting that neither RENNtech, AMG, nor any other tuner I know of produced a larger rear bar for the .034/.036.

Minimum run & price is the main issue, 32mm bars are available now for $600 but nobody wants to buy them. As to what the magic price point is, who knows. And I'd be surprised if more than a dozen or so people actually came up with the $$$. Finally, shipping outside the USA is basically impossible unless the foreign recipient uses a freight forwarding service. Which narrows it down to primarily US-based transactions.

 

[Stevester 500E]

I seriouls would be interested in at least 3 sets. I have shipped stuff to Indonesia vis USPS, why is shipping an issue?
I think if the price were right, we could get at least 20 people, you get an order of 3 from me alone, GSXR, I am sure you would want at least a couple, . . . .that 5 already !

Let's get a quote from Jack-man for 20 and take it from there.

 

[Glen]

See the following for a % increase in stiffness as the bars get larger: http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/BL-281.pdf

FWIW, going from stock 28mm to 30mm would be a 32% increase in roll stiffness. Those of us with staggered wheels, would really benefit from a 20mm+ rear bar...