5.0l swap and trans discussion

[Quick4door]

I currently have a 1992 400 E which has roughly 300,000 miles on it. I have a 500 SL Parts car with the 119.972 engine and 722.5 trans. The transmission in the 400e is from sun valley transmissions and has about 20k on it since the complete rebuild. Should I just swap the SL engine and trans in? Does anyone know what the pros and cons are? I have the whole parts car here so I can use whatever wiring or sensors needed.

Pics of the 400e and the parts car.

 

[gsxr]

The R129 trans (722.3, not 722.5) has a different rear tail section and I am pretty sure it won't bolt up to the 400E. The R129 119.972 engine is 100% plug+play other than swapping the two wire harnesses.

You want to put the 5.0L engine in with the 20kmi-old rebuilt trans. I'd also fully reseal the 5.0 engine, and replace chain rails etc, with the engine on a stand prior to installing.

 

[Alphasud40]

I’m confused. I thought the 722.5 was only used on the M104 engine? So the SL500 has a M119 with a 5-speed 722.5?

 

[gsxr]

I’m confused. I thought the 722.5 was only used on the M104 engine? So the SL500 has a M119 with a 5-speed 722.5?

You are correct. The above is a typo. The 722.5 was never used behind any V8 engine.

1996-up with M119.98x (coil-on-plug, ME 1.0) had the 722.6 (NAG-1) five-speed.

 

[Alphasud40]

Yes, I think he is asking if he can swap the 96 and up drivetrain into his 400E. If so we have gone down that road before and let the fun begin. Unfortunately no easy swap for either engine or transmission. I have also seen parts SL cars for sale with the 500 badge but a M104 722.5 combo.

 

[gsxr]

Yes, I think he is asking if he can swap the 96 and up drivetrain into his 400E. If so we have gone down that road before and let the fun begin. Unfortunately no easy swap for either engine or transmission. I have also seen parts SL cars for sale with the 500 badge but a M104 722.5 combo.

He said the engine was 119.972 which would be up to 1995 with LH-SFI and 722.3... need some verification! You are right, the 96-up swap is a lot more complicated.

 

[Quick4door]

Thanks for the help guys. The car is a 1994SL 500 with The 119.972 and what I thought was a 722.5 transmission, I must be mistaken. Is there any reason to install the SL 500 transmission with the engine, is there any difference Between what I have and what this one has other than the mileage on the transmission?

I definitely plan on resealing the engine, I will take a look at the heads, and if they need to be pulled so that I can put new head, gaskets in, then I will do so. I am fairly confident at this point that the lower end does not need any attention, but I won’t know that until I get it on the engine stand and start taking things apart. My hope is that I can strip it down to a short block at worst, and replace or reseal everythingelse.

 

[Alphasud40]

Really no need to transfer the transmission from the SL if the 400E transmission is solid. I believe the 500 transmission has a larger torque capability but you should be okay. If the 500 transmission is good use it and keep the 400 as a spare. Everything else is a straight swap. All you need is the EZL and LH modules. Only other difference is if either one has ASR. Don’t forget to swap the differential for the 2.65 final drive. Then you will need to recalibrate the speedometer. Does either one have ASR?

 

[gsxr]

You want to put the 5.0L engine in with the 20kmi-old rebuilt trans. The SL500 transmission has identical internals, only the tailshaft housing & valvebody is different. They have the same torque rating.

The 1994 SL500 does have 2.65 rear axle ratio, unfortunately it is the "reinforced" diff which is physically larger and will not bolt in to the 400E. If you want 2.65's then source a diff from a 129.066 chassis (1990-1992 500SL, must match ASR or non-ASR based on what your 400E is).

 

[Quick4door]

Excellent info gents! The 400e trans will stay and I can sell the sl500 trans on marketplace. I already have the 2.65 rear diff from a 91 sl500. The sun valley trans has been flawless so no reason not to use it. I’m waiting for the weather to break for spring and I’ll yank the engine out of the sl to get started.

 

[ssaliaj]

Excellent info gents! The 400e trans will stay and I can sell the sl500 trans on marketplace. I already have the 2.65 rear diff from a 91 sl500. The sun valley trans has been flawless so no reason not to use it. I’m waiting for the weather to break for spring and I’ll yank the engine out of the sl to get started.

Dont forget to remove the kickdown relay , @gsxr saved my life with this suggestion. Car was shifting as hell after the 5.0 swap, once removed the relay everything is perfect.

 

[AndyK]

Where is this relay located?


I’m currently working on swapping the engine and transmission from a 1993 SL500 into a 1993 400E.


So far, I’ve replaced the valve stem seals and resealed the front timing chain cover. The chain guides and seal rings have also been replaced, but the timing chain will remain original.


The engine had 70,000 miles on it.

 

[gsxr]

Where is this relay located?

I’m currently working on swapping the engine and transmission from a 1993 SL500 into a 1993 400E.

Screenshot below from ETM in the FSM (link).

K29/1 is inaccurately named "First Gear Start" relay. The actual function is a first gear upshift delay relay, details here. The valvebody causes the 1st gear start, the relay engages the kickdown solenoid to keep it in 1st longer (delay upshift) to heat the catalysts after a cold start.

BTW, welcome to the forum! Nice project you have there... the 400E will be way funner with the 5L. I assume you'll also change the rear axle ratio too?

 

[AndyK]

Screenshot below from ETM in the FSM (link).

K29/1 is inaccurately named "First Gear Start" relay. The actual function is a first gear upshift delay relay, details here. The valvebody causes the 1st gear start, the relay engages the kickdown solenoid to keep it in 1st longer (delay upshift) to heat the catalysts after a cold start.

BTW, welcome to the forum! Nice project you have there... the 400E will be way funner with the 5L. I assume you'll also change the rear axle ratio too?



View attachment 219892

Thanks for information!
I’ll take from this SL500 as much as I can.
Even front suspension to get w124 wider, then wide body kit.

 

[gsxr]

Thanks for information!
I’ll take from this SL500 as much as I can.
Even front suspension to get w124 wider, then wide body kit.

The front suspension isn't any wider vs the 400E. They share the same hubs as well. If the front sway bar is larger diameter, that may fit with some modifications (search the forum for details). Use the 5.0L LH and EZL from the SL.

 

[AndyK]

The front suspension isn't any wider vs the 400E. They share the same hubs as well. If the front sway bar is larger diameter, that may fit with some modifications (search the forum for details). Use the 5.0L LH and EZL from the SL.

SL500 used serviceable control arms (replaceable ball joints). As a result, the control arm slightly wider, the knuckle slightly different, probably brake calipers also different but this is not for sure.

I already tried to put SL320 control arms to 400e, didn’t work, ball joints section too wide for 400 brake system

 

[gsxr]

SL500 used serviceable control arms (replaceable ball joints). As a result, the control arm slightly wider

The early SL500 with 300mm front calipers used serviceable control arms with replaceable ball joints. Later SL500 with either 320mm or 334mm front calipers did NOT use these control arms. And, the control arm is not wider. Both versions of the LCA are identical dimensions, only the shape of the outer ball joint area is different to provide clearance for the deeper rotors used with the larger brakes. Detailed photos are here.

the knuckle slightly different

The knuckle also has the same dimensions compared to the 400E/500E. They are the identical part number for all R129, and 124.034/.036.
The only difference vs 4/5/6-cyl 124 is the bearings are larger on the R129 (and W124 V8) knuckle.

probably brake calipers also different but this is not for sure.

There were 3 different front brake caliper sizes offered during 500SL/SL500 production. The larger brakes require the late-style LCA's with non-replaceable ball joints. The rotor will touch the early style LCA.

I already tried to put SL320 control arms to 400e, didn’t work, ball joints section too wide for 400 brake system

The early SL320 (without optional ESP) has the early LCA's with replaceable ball joints... and yes, this will contact the 400E rotor. You will have the same exact issue with the SL500 control arms. Keep the 400E control arms, they are the late style. If the ball joint is tight, replace the boot and add some fresh grease (details here).

 

[AndyK]

The early SL500 with 300mm front calipers used serviceable control arms with replaceable ball joints. Later SL500 with either 320mm or 334mm front calipers did NOT use these control arms. And, the control arm is not wider. Both versions of the LCA are identical dimensions, only the shape of the outer ball joint area is different to provide clearance for the deeper rotors used with the larger brakes. Detailed photos are here.



The knuckle also has the same dimensions compared to the 400E/500E. They are the identical part number for all R129, and 124.034/.036.
The only difference vs 4/5/6-cyl 124 is the bearings are larger on the R129 (and W124 V8) knuckle.




There were 3 different front brake caliper sizes offered during 500SL/SL500 production. The larger brakes require the late-style LCA's with non-replaceable ball joints. The rotor will touch the early style LCA.




The early SL320 (without optional ESP) has the early LCA's with replaceable ball joints... and yes, this will contact the 400E rotor. You will have the same exact issue with the SL500 control arms. Keep the 400E control arms, they are the late style. If the ball joint is tight, replace the boot and add some fresh grease (details here).

Awesome, thank you!

 

[AndyK]

Getting ready… but so many things left

 

[AndyK]

Well, first thing to think…
The throttle body. Take a look on the pic.
Big connector = 400e
Small connector = SL500

Use 400e ?

 

[AndyK]

Well, after checking of the wire harness, no choice. Big connector installes

 

[AndyK]

Looking for lower engine oil pan. Mines are bad. Brand new on back order

 

[gsxr]

Looking for lower engine oil pan. Mines are bad. Brand new on back order

Back order or just needs to come out of Germany? Did you call a dealer and ask a live person? The info shown at online dealer web pages is not accurate.

Pelican claims to have 3 in stock.

Mercedes OIL PAN Genuine Mercedes 119-010-10-28 119.010.10.28 1190101028 119 010 10 28 | Pelican Parts

Genuine Mercedes OIL PAN. Call (310)626-8765. May Qualify For FREE SHIPPING. Parts# 119 010 10 28 119-010-10-28 119.010.10.28 1190101028. SL500, E500, E420, 500SL, 500E, 400E.

www.pelicanparts.com

 

[AndyK]

Back order or just needs to come out of Germany? Did you call a dealer and ask a live person? The info shown at online dealer web pages is not accurate.

Pelican claims to have 3 in stock.

Mercedes OIL PAN Genuine Mercedes 119-010-10-28 119.010.10.28 1190101028 119 010 10 28 | Pelican Parts

Genuine Mercedes OIL PAN. Call (310)626-8765. May Qualify For FREE SHIPPING. Parts# 119 010 10 28 119-010-10-28 119.010.10.28 1190101028. SL500, E500, E420, 500SL, 500E, 400E.

www.pelicanparts.com

I found used on ebay, $50
Thank you

New ones comes with different design and looks bigger
Is that true?

 

[gsxr]

New ones comes with different design and looks bigger
Is that true?

Different design, yes. Bigger, no.

 

[AndyK]

Tired… but getting there. No one part comes back easily. Cleaning as minimum, rebuilding or replacing parts as normal

Fortunately or unfortunately I am MB shop, and I cannot skip for things as parts preparation, thread retapping, threadlocker and torque ranges. Takes too much time