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500E / E500 Parts Manufacturer Quality List
- Thread starter gerryvz
- Start date
So, I'm not sure exactly how, but this list just got me into trouble. I recently chose a new indie mb mechanic to maintain my beloved 500E, and dropped my car to him on Tuesday. I found him after meeting the owner of the matte black 500E that was for sale recently out in NJ. Turned out he bought it from this mechanic and I thought the work he did on the car he sold to my friend was really nice so I decided he'd be worth bringing the car to. Today I get a call with an estimate for about $2900 for parts and labor for various repairs. The ones I can remember are that I need a new fan shroud, fan clutch, front strut equipment (can't remember what exactly), wheel bearings or something having to do with them, rear brakes, cleaning of the motor (definitely could use it) some other stuff, bulbs, install the victor wheel, ect.
The quick break down was 1700 for parts, and about 1200 for labor. I asked the shop manager I was speaking with if he could send me an itemized breakdown so I could see what everything cost and suggested that I only wanted OEM parts where possible and where it wasn't if they could refer to this fine list we've had put together by the many knowledgeable members, Id really appreciate it. I also mentioned that since I'm a MBCA member I get a discount on OEM parts if that would be any help to my bill I'd be happy to supply my membership #. Not more than 20 minutes later I get a text from his office manager stating that he doesn't want to do the work anymore because he's been doing this for 30 years and I've basically tried to tell him how to do his job. I was shocked, honestly, and I'm still not sure what to think. I'm going to pick the car up tomorrow.
Has anyone else ever tried to supply this list for a mechanic to ensure they got the proper parts? Is that unreasonable? I really just want to make sure I get the quality parts everyone is so adamant about here. I'd hate to spend 3 grand on parts and labor to find out I've got a bunch of URO and similar parts installed where I could have had OEM. I'm not saying that that is what would have happened had I left him to his own devices, but I don't know this guy and I've never dealt with him before, I would figure it was enough that I trusted him to drop the car and have him go through it? Who knows, maybe I'm out of touch on this one. I certainly am not a wrench turner so I guess its possible I missed the mark here. Should I apologize and try to patch this up or just go pick the car up and try to find someone else?
The quick break down was 1700 for parts, and about 1200 for labor. I asked the shop manager I was speaking with if he could send me an itemized breakdown so I could see what everything cost and suggested that I only wanted OEM parts where possible and where it wasn't if they could refer to this fine list we've had put together by the many knowledgeable members, Id really appreciate it. I also mentioned that since I'm a MBCA member I get a discount on OEM parts if that would be any help to my bill I'd be happy to supply my membership #. Not more than 20 minutes later I get a text from his office manager stating that he doesn't want to do the work anymore because he's been doing this for 30 years and I've basically tried to tell him how to do his job. I was shocked, honestly, and I'm still not sure what to think. I'm going to pick the car up tomorrow.
Has anyone else ever tried to supply this list for a mechanic to ensure they got the proper parts? Is that unreasonable? I really just want to make sure I get the quality parts everyone is so adamant about here. I'd hate to spend 3 grand on parts and labor to find out I've got a bunch of URO and similar parts installed where I could have had OEM. I'm not saying that that is what would have happened had I left him to his own devices, but I don't know this guy and I've never dealt with him before, I would figure it was enough that I trusted him to drop the car and have him go through it? Who knows, maybe I'm out of touch on this one. I certainly am not a wrench turner so I guess its possible I missed the mark here. Should I apologize and try to patch this up or just go pick the car up and try to find someone else?
First of all, many indy shops don't like it (some refuse outright) when owners bring their own parts, because the shop makes significant profit on the parts. Some shops will buy mediocre parts (see GSXR's tale above about an indy shop that used FEBI parts on his 124 wagon and charged the ignoramus previous owner of the car the full factory retail price. So they can pad their labor costs that way through parts.
Other shops are OK with owners bringing their own parts, but may not warranty the parts and/or labor unless they buy and install it.
In this case, it seems to me that the shop may have been a little too sensitive on the situation, although I would NEVER bring a list of parts brands that I downloaded off the Internet into a shop and tell them that they MUST use parts only on the "approved" list. I think it would have been better to tell them that you want good quality / OEM / factory parts only (best possible quality) and trust them to use them. Or as an alternative, to call you and let you know what brands the parts are when then got them in from the supplier.
I see TOO MUCH of these indy shops these days using suppliers like WorldPac, IMC and SSF (they are about all that is left) and all of these suppliers carry minimal factory MB parts anymore, and mostly aftermarket stuff. So the shops end up buying and using stuff like Meyle, Febi and in some cases (if super greedy) they use URO, Trucktek, Hamburg Technic and other low-end stuff. But Meyle and Febi are the most common stuff that I see sitting around these shops. And most all of that stuff is the next closest thing to junk (these days).
So I think it's important to agree up front with the shop as to what parts you DEMAND they use, and if there is any question they need to check with you before installing. No shop is going to honor your MBCA discount card. In that case, the absolute best you could do would be to get your parts with your discount, or get them from Lionel or parts.com etc, and supply them to the shop if their policy is to allow the owner to do that and they are OK with it.
The only problem with supplying your own parts -- and I have found this in my own repair trials and travails -- is that often you break something small (like a washer or seal) or don't think of a part that needs to be replaced as part of the repair, and if you didn't supply it (most people don't think about this stuff) then the shop ends up ordering it anyway to get the car done and back out of the shop. In my case, since I do 98% of my own work, I can just call up parts.com or Tom Hanson and have the part overnighted to me directly from MB and I'm pretty much back on track (if it's a critical part or I need the car, which isn't usually the case as I own multiple cars to use as spares).
I think I'd have a conversation with the shop when you pick up the car in that you were just trying to ensure that the best repair parts were going onto your car, because too many shops use junk/cheap parts, and you really care about what goes onto your car. If they shut you down or are rude, or get belligerent, then I'd politely take my car, thank them for their time, and find another shop that is friendlier and easier to do business with. You live in a part of the country that you should be able to find other decent shops.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Gerry
Other shops are OK with owners bringing their own parts, but may not warranty the parts and/or labor unless they buy and install it.
In this case, it seems to me that the shop may have been a little too sensitive on the situation, although I would NEVER bring a list of parts brands that I downloaded off the Internet into a shop and tell them that they MUST use parts only on the "approved" list. I think it would have been better to tell them that you want good quality / OEM / factory parts only (best possible quality) and trust them to use them. Or as an alternative, to call you and let you know what brands the parts are when then got them in from the supplier.
I see TOO MUCH of these indy shops these days using suppliers like WorldPac, IMC and SSF (they are about all that is left) and all of these suppliers carry minimal factory MB parts anymore, and mostly aftermarket stuff. So the shops end up buying and using stuff like Meyle, Febi and in some cases (if super greedy) they use URO, Trucktek, Hamburg Technic and other low-end stuff. But Meyle and Febi are the most common stuff that I see sitting around these shops. And most all of that stuff is the next closest thing to junk (these days).
So I think it's important to agree up front with the shop as to what parts you DEMAND they use, and if there is any question they need to check with you before installing. No shop is going to honor your MBCA discount card. In that case, the absolute best you could do would be to get your parts with your discount, or get them from Lionel or parts.com etc, and supply them to the shop if their policy is to allow the owner to do that and they are OK with it.
The only problem with supplying your own parts -- and I have found this in my own repair trials and travails -- is that often you break something small (like a washer or seal) or don't think of a part that needs to be replaced as part of the repair, and if you didn't supply it (most people don't think about this stuff) then the shop ends up ordering it anyway to get the car done and back out of the shop. In my case, since I do 98% of my own work, I can just call up parts.com or Tom Hanson and have the part overnighted to me directly from MB and I'm pretty much back on track (if it's a critical part or I need the car, which isn't usually the case as I own multiple cars to use as spares).
I think I'd have a conversation with the shop when you pick up the car in that you were just trying to ensure that the best repair parts were going onto your car, because too many shops use junk/cheap parts, and you really care about what goes onto your car. If they shut you down or are rude, or get belligerent, then I'd politely take my car, thank them for their time, and find another shop that is friendlier and easier to do business with. You live in a part of the country that you should be able to find other decent shops.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Gerry
Re: 500E / E500 Parts Vendor Quality List
My feelings exactly. I get a sour taste for the shop in question simply because in this present climate of automotive repair I would expect any good facility to anticipate concern over the quality of installed parts. The manager you spoke with should be used to having this discussion. As long as you were tactful and understanding in your request I think you deserved better treatment.
drew
My feelings exactly. I get a sour taste for the shop in question simply because in this present climate of automotive repair I would expect any good facility to anticipate concern over the quality of installed parts. The manager you spoke with should be used to having this discussion. As long as you were tactful and understanding in your request I think you deserved better treatment.
drew
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Re: 500E / E500 Parts Vendor Quality List
If a shop is unhappy with a cutomer requesting that OE or OEM quality parts are used
and a writtern estimate stating "what parts" and the cost are going to be, they are not
the shop you want to use.
Also, genuine MB parts are warrantied 12 months to 24 months depending on what part
it is, this warranty repair is covered parts & labor at a dealer even if an independent or you installed
the part in question.
As long as the installation was done correctly.
If a shop is unhappy with a cutomer requesting that OE or OEM quality parts are used
and a writtern estimate stating "what parts" and the cost are going to be, they are not
the shop you want to use.
Also, genuine MB parts are warrantied 12 months to 24 months depending on what part
it is, this warranty repair is covered parts & labor at a dealer even if an independent or you installed
the part in question.
As long as the installation was done correctly.
Thanks Gerry,
What you've said make sense and I'll see if I can straighten things out with this mechanic this afternoon. I think part of the problem may be due to the fact that the shop manager relayed my request in a way that made it sound very abrasive which obviously was not what I had intended.
The bottom line is that I want the best stuff possible for my car and since I know my own limitations (i.e. really wouldn't know a URO or FEBI from a better or OEM part) a mechanic could really get away (and I assume they realize this is often the case with other customers except for you knowledgable folks here
) with putting whatever they like in my car in order to maximize profits, especially if you didnt have the sense enough to ask for those parts or at least appear as though I knew the difference. Now, again, that isn't to say that this guy would have done that. I'd like to think that most people are honest, and what goes around comes around. I try to live that way. However, I realize that not everyone plays by those rules, and therefore its better to open your mouth then to regret not having done so. I've been classically trained by all you fine gentlemen in the art of .036 perfection, and I know nobody here would have showed up at a new indie and hoped they got top quality parts for their E500E so I guess I can't be too upset if this whole things ends up being a bust.
GSXR, when are you starting your mobile mechanic biz
When I was in my 20's I owned an Alfa GTV6 that needed a new clutch. The clutch for that car was notoriously expensive. In my naïveté (stupidity), I figured I would save a few bucks and buy it through a catalog (no internet then LOL) and bring it to the mechanic for installation.
I'll never forget what he told me when I brought it to him.....he said "you wouldn't bring your own steak to a restaurant, would you"? Lesson learned......
I'll never forget what he told me when I brought it to him.....he said "you wouldn't bring your own steak to a restaurant, would you"? Lesson learned......
In this day and age, when a lot of these indy shops are not all that profitable (or at minimum just looking to maximize profits), they will cut corners by using parts like Meyle and Febi that most of their uneducated customers don't know (or care) about. You did the right thing covering your bases, but I think it's a bit of a sensitive issue so you have to use tact. That's all....
Yikes! I agree with what Gerry, Drew, and Clark stated above. Since it appears to be a common practice that many shops use "discount" parts to increase profit margin, I think it is reasonable to be concerned, and at least worth asking about politely. Some diplomacy would definitely be recommended, to avoid the shop feeling like you are bringing your steak to their restaurant.
Probably the safest course would be to simply request that only OE/dealer parts are used. If for some reason the OE item is NLA and they can only source aftermarket or used, or if the OE item is insanely priced, they could ask you for approval to use a non-OE part. I would think that any reputable shop would be fine with this, although they might mark up the OE parts above list to pad their profit margin, or simply quote the job on the high side and see if you're willing to pay for it.
I don't think I could ever pull off a mobile mechanic biz, too many tools to haul around, airport hassles, etc. I might be able to do some side work in my shop but nobody lives near Boise, lol!
Probably the safest course would be to simply request that only OE/dealer parts are used. If for some reason the OE item is NLA and they can only source aftermarket or used, or if the OE item is insanely priced, they could ask you for approval to use a non-OE part. I would think that any reputable shop would be fine with this, although they might mark up the OE parts above list to pad their profit margin, or simply quote the job on the high side and see if you're willing to pay for it.
I don't think I could ever pull off a mobile mechanic biz, too many tools to haul around, airport hassles, etc. I might be able to do some side work in my shop but nobody lives near Boise, lol!
Well, at this point, I might consider shipping it out you GSXR! I went over to the shop this afternoon with every intention that I would smooth this out and apologize for any misunderstanding that may have taken place. When I went in, both the secretary who relayed my requests to the mechanic and the mechanic were in the office. I asked what the reason was he was unable to do the work and he told me I was unhappy with the price and that it was not enough money or worth his time for me to be checking in and bothering him while he is doing the work... whoa! what?! This secretary completely gave this mechanic his own version of what requested! I kept my lid on and apologized if his secretary misunderstood what I was asking for that I certainly didn't mean to offend him or make it seem like I was telling him how to do his job.
So I asked again, can I leave the car? He said, you see that SL over there? It was an old convertible, he said this guy gave me $30k and said fix the car, I want to get paid for every hour that I work on a car. I said, well...of course, why wouldn't you expect that I'd pay you for every hour you work on my car? Do you want me to pay you up front, so you can deduct the money as you do the work? No, he said, I don't want that. I said well do you need more money than what you originally quoted? Lets talk about the price if thats the issue? I said I came here because I was impressed with how (my friends) car was put together and I was looking to get the same quality of work and attention to detail and thats why Im here. He said with that car (my friends) it was his and he was able to do it with an open budget and so on and that my car somehow wasn't fixable?
At this point he was really just making excuses, saying things like it would take half a day to clean the motor and he doesn't have time for that. Unfortunately I had no choice but to take the car with me and head home. Anyone have any recommendations in the NY/NJ area? I used to use a reputable indie mechanic in Tenafly called Wolfgang's but the head mechanic there has taken a back seat as of late and isn't really around much.
So I asked again, can I leave the car? He said, you see that SL over there? It was an old convertible, he said this guy gave me $30k and said fix the car, I want to get paid for every hour that I work on a car. I said, well...of course, why wouldn't you expect that I'd pay you for every hour you work on my car? Do you want me to pay you up front, so you can deduct the money as you do the work? No, he said, I don't want that. I said well do you need more money than what you originally quoted? Lets talk about the price if thats the issue? I said I came here because I was impressed with how (my friends) car was put together and I was looking to get the same quality of work and attention to detail and thats why Im here. He said with that car (my friends) it was his and he was able to do it with an open budget and so on and that my car somehow wasn't fixable?
At this point he was really just making excuses, saying things like it would take half a day to clean the motor and he doesn't have time for that. Unfortunately I had no choice but to take the car with me and head home. Anyone have any recommendations in the NY/NJ area? I used to use a reputable indie mechanic in Tenafly called Wolfgang's but the head mechanic there has taken a back seat as of late and isn't really around much.
Buy all the quality parts you need, then bring them and your car down to Rockville, MD and Rick @ RC Imports will take care of you.
Thanks, I still feel pretty bad about this whole thing. Partially because I obviously upset this guy and also because I really did want him to work on the car. The car I drove that my friend bought from him is in great shape and runs like a top. I really liked the idea that this particular guy owned this car at one point and really knew it inside and out. That gave me a nice tingly feeling, gotta be honest. Anyway, i'd be interested in hearing about the Long Island shops, MD might be a little far though!
Not worth dealing with someone who doesn't really want to work on your car / won't at least listen to the customer.
IMHO the guy acted a bit unprofessionally reacting to what was told him.
Sometimes stuff doesn't work out and that's ok. Things happen for a reason.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
IMHO the guy acted a bit unprofessionally reacting to what was told him.
Sometimes stuff doesn't work out and that's ok. Things happen for a reason.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sir, you are being too hard on yourself! You're the customer, and contrary to the expression, that does not always make you right, but it does make you "always the customer". At the end of the day, it's you paying all of our bills.
They were supposedly the professionals in this transaction, and it was their job to communicate with you effectively and respectfully, not insult you, then turn you away and make you feel somehow guilty for the privilege.
Unless there is a huge piece of this story missing, and only you would know what that is, their behavior towards you was wildly over-the-top in my opinion.
If (and in fairness to them, this is a BIG "if") everything that transpired was reasonably close to the way you described it, then they did you a favor by sending you elsewhere...
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Re: 500E / E500 Parts Vendor Quality List
I can chime in on Meyle suspension parts Gerry as I am about to have to replace a pair of Meyle lower control arms on my Volvo after less than 3 years as the rubber bushings are failing. Really unhappy about this one and I won't ever use the suspension parts again from them!!!
Thankfully I kept the stock aluminum lower arms and will replace the worn out bushings with genuine Volvo parts this round then reinstall those and be done with it for good. It's genuine factory or Lemforter on suspension parts from now on on both my cars no exceptions!!
I can chime in on Meyle suspension parts Gerry as I am about to have to replace a pair of Meyle lower control arms on my Volvo after less than 3 years as the rubber bushings are failing. Really unhappy about this one and I won't ever use the suspension parts again from them!!!
Thankfully I kept the stock aluminum lower arms and will replace the worn out bushings with genuine Volvo parts this round then reinstall those and be done with it for good. It's genuine factory or Lemforter on suspension parts from now on on both my cars no exceptions!!
All the big bills I saw it was pretty much 50% labor and 50% parts break down. So it is uncommon and not a good practice to allow customers to bring parts UNLESS they agree to pay an upcharge to the shop. I have never been happy with the list prices within worldpac being HIGHER than OE for the low quality parts suppliers. All estimates I've seen have a detailed parts breakdown, but they will not usually say part manufacture.
That said, I believe that locally here in Texas- I can find a shop to do work if needed and obide by OE/OEM parts only. You are embarking on much of why ppl do their own work.
Fan shrouds are only OE and very expensive, struts are only saches through MB, etc. You should find a used fan shroud via a 400/420e. Is it broken or the screws stripped? Fan clutch oe is MB only (Horton/saches) and list is ???$700+. Aftermarket ACM is ~120.
You sure you need a fan clutch ??
Struts are an easy job, fan clutch and shroud- all easy work for mechanically inclined ppl.
Michael
That said, I believe that locally here in Texas- I can find a shop to do work if needed and obide by OE/OEM parts only. You are embarking on much of why ppl do their own work.
Fan shrouds are only OE and very expensive, struts are only saches through MB, etc. You should find a used fan shroud via a 400/420e. Is it broken or the screws stripped? Fan clutch oe is MB only (Horton/saches) and list is ???$700+. Aftermarket ACM is ~120.
You sure you need a fan clutch ??
Struts are an easy job, fan clutch and shroud- all easy work for mechanically inclined ppl.
Michael
You should never have to convince someone to work on your car. The technician's attitude would have been a major red flag to me. You definitely did the right thing to walk out. There are times that I will bring my own parts to a shop to have them installed. Some have refused to install owner supplied parts, some have added 10% to their labor rate and others have had no problem with it as long as they are high quality parts.
If you're still looking for a shop a fellow NY area 124 owner recommended Xaver's Foreign Car http://xaversny.com/ in Newburgh, NY to me. I called them for a quote to install new motor mounts (Lemforder) and a new transmission mount (MB) which I would be supplying. The Service Advisor, Ron, was very accommodating and gave me a quote on the labor over the phone. I asked to schedule an appointment and the earliest availability they had was two weeks out (always a good sign). I dropped the car off and saw that their lot was filled with primarily older MB's (W201's W123's, w124's, w126's and W140's). I got a call the next day that the work had been completed and the car was ready for pickup. When I went in to pick the car up Ron advised me as to some areas on the car that would soon need attention. Although I do as much work on my cars as my mechanical ability allows I would not hesitate for a moment to bring the car back to Xaver's for anything beyond my skills.
Re: 500E / E500 Parts Vendor Quality List
I do not agree with this guy. He says that scan-tech parts are OE-quality, but in reality they are worst crap that have been ever produced.
About the gaskets, elring > victor reinz. About Mahle, not all filters are so great , Mann is always safe bet.
I would add SKF as premium brand to provide bearings. Same quality as Timken.
I do not agree with this guy. He says that scan-tech parts are OE-quality, but in reality they are worst crap that have been ever produced.
About the gaskets, elring > victor reinz. About Mahle, not all filters are so great , Mann is always safe bet.
I would add SKF as premium brand to provide bearings. Same quality as Timken.
I agree 100% on Elring gaskets. I will NOT use Victor Reinz on any vehicle I own. As will I NOT use Meyle parts on any vehicle I own.
I would use Mahle filters, but they are not my first choice. Been using Mann filters since 1987, when I first began installing them on my VW Rabbit (Golf Mk.1) GTI. Never a problem since. Hengst is my first choice for oil filters.
SKF, great. Been using them for 35+ years, starting when I was young for my skateboard wheel bearings. Stellar stuff.
I would use Mahle filters, but they are not my first choice. Been using Mann filters since 1987, when I first began installing them on my VW Rabbit (Golf Mk.1) GTI. Never a problem since. Hengst is my first choice for oil filters.
SKF, great. Been using them for 35+ years, starting when I was young for my skateboard wheel bearings. Stellar stuff.
You can never go wrong just using genuine MB parts, gaskets, and filters.
And with free shipping from Lionel @ MB of Gainesville there's no excuse
not to use OE what ever it is.
For the M119, oil filters are Mahle, air filters Mann, and the gaskets like cylinder head covers
are by far the best of all the other manufacturers.
Then there's the MB Star clarkplugs of course
And with free shipping from Lionel @ MB of Gainesville there's no excuse
not to use OE what ever it is.
For the M119, oil filters are Mahle, air filters Mann, and the gaskets like cylinder head covers
are by far the best of all the other manufacturers.
Then there's the MB Star clarkplugs of course
Since the MB Star on the clark-plugs is so difficult for the ladies to see, are there any benefits to using them over the regular Bosch plugs? :clarkz2:
Yes, you're sending money to Germany, not that KGB Dictator Putin.
Aftermarket Bosch plugs are mostly Russian made.
Those Russian plugs will make your engine go put put Putin put put Putin...
So I have been venturing with this parts quality lately.
Looks like Bosch has more than one quality level. I cannot comment on plugs/rotors etc. But here in the USA, they sell remanufactured alternators/starters/ MAF etc. They come in a black box. They are re-manufactured in Mexico and or China. They are not the same quality as Germany/Spain yellow boxed rebuilt components.
Michael
Looks like Bosch has more than one quality level. I cannot comment on plugs/rotors etc. But here in the USA, they sell remanufactured alternators/starters/ MAF etc. They come in a black box. They are re-manufactured in Mexico and or China. They are not the same quality as Germany/Spain yellow boxed rebuilt components.
Michael
I have spotted a new aftermarket brand of parts, which seems to be for sale over at PelicanParts.com. It's called "OPParts"
Judging by the prices as compared to quality aftermarket or factory OE parts, the OPParts stuff seems to be Chinese junk (i.e. Hamburg Tech, Trucktec, URO, etc.) quality.
I guess a single whiff of the rubber would tell one all they need to know.
Remember ... "If it smells like the 'Fright, don't let it see daylight!"
Judging by the prices as compared to quality aftermarket or factory OE parts, the OPParts stuff seems to be Chinese junk (i.e. Hamburg Tech, Trucktec, URO, etc.) quality.
I guess a single whiff of the rubber would tell one all they need to know.
Remember ... "If it smells like the 'Fright, don't let it see daylight!"
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So what's currently the best brand/source for distributor caps and rotors? I realize these things are fluid over time so just curious what the preference is in March 2016. My inclination is to go for Beru for both. Bosch seem to be poor, at least for these particular parts. Are Bosch aftermarket caps/rotors the same as Genuine MB? Or is it like the Putin plugs vs. Clark plugs?
I just installed a set of Clark plugs and already have replacement red Beru wires and a set of NOS Bosch ignition coils. Now I just need to complete the set and hopefully have a reliable ignition system for many years!
I just installed a set of Clark plugs and already have replacement red Beru wires and a set of NOS Bosch ignition coils. Now I just need to complete the set and hopefully have a reliable ignition system for many years!
No, the Bosch Aftermarket and the Genuine Mercedes Caps (made by Bosch) are not the same unfortunately. Mercedes has own Injection Moulding Tools at Bosch and they have contracts with Bosch so Bosch is not allowed to produce Aftermarket Caps/Rotors from their tools. Furthermore the Bosch Caps and the Insulators (aka Dust Covers) from the Mercedes Dealer are coated inside with a "Zaponlack", its an electrical barrier coating. (2K Acrylic Clear Coat works aswell for the insulating purpose. BTDT). I know that in the aftermarket business, from first hand, that the brands very often then buy the worn-out moulding from their contract partners and sometimes do some quick repairs, or sometimes just continue to produce parts with rest of stock materials for the so called aftermarket. A person told me on last years 500E meet about that business and said, even if they were having like 50% reclamation rates, its still a win for the company. And since greed controls everything there days...yeahh...
Bernard, who does M119, M120, M104 for a living had a certain car once where the customer wanted to have Bosch Aftermarket Caps, he returned after less than 1000km with slight missfires... he redone that 2 or 3 times in total with evertime new Bosch caps from different shops problem persisted, then he used a set of new Mercedes caps and the customer is happy till today. Since then Bernard refused to use ANY aftermarket parts for our cars.
I am increasingly starting to worry about even MB factory parts, seeing as more and more of them are being made in places like South America, India and China.
Although I am very sure there are situations like the above with the Bosch distributor caps (and I agree there are differences in many parts between MB factory parts and aftermarket parts that are actually manufactured by the same OEM), there are also many situations where the "aftermarket" parts are merely identical as the MB OE parts with the star "ground off".
Christian, I'll be in touch with you with regard to your recent PM request, if you are still interested in it. I may not make it up to the AB/DA area on this year's trip -- Kreis Stuttgart may be the farthest north that I make it for 2016....formulating my plans now. If you are interested in participating in the Alpentour, the weekend of June 17-19, you should register. There will be caravan of my AB friends (many of whom you met at Schlappeseppel) driving to Munich for the Tour.
Cheers,
Gerry
Although I am very sure there are situations like the above with the Bosch distributor caps (and I agree there are differences in many parts between MB factory parts and aftermarket parts that are actually manufactured by the same OEM), there are also many situations where the "aftermarket" parts are merely identical as the MB OE parts with the star "ground off".
Christian, I'll be in touch with you with regard to your recent PM request, if you are still interested in it. I may not make it up to the AB/DA area on this year's trip -- Kreis Stuttgart may be the farthest north that I make it for 2016....formulating my plans now. If you are interested in participating in the Alpentour, the weekend of June 17-19, you should register. There will be caravan of my AB friends (many of whom you met at Schlappeseppel) driving to Munich for the Tour.
Cheers,
Gerry
That's what I feared and very much in line with my experience with aftermarket Bosch M119 caps/rotors.
What about Beru aftermarket? The price differential between Beru and Genuine MB caps is $67 vs. $150 per cap.
I only see Bremi, Bosch aftermarket, and Genuine MB for the rotor ($30 Bremi vs. $72 genuine per rotor). Is it worth the extra for genuine on both counts?
Thanks for the insight!
If it's in the budget, OE would be the best of course. But given the cost (especially if you include the insulators behind the rotor bracket), not everyone can afford OE.
Most of my cars have Bosch aftermarket caps/rotors courtesy of previous owners. The last couple sets I've purchased have been aftermarket Beru caps & Bosch rotors, as the aftermarket Beru rotors are not available in USA.
YMMV, etc...
Most of my cars have Bosch aftermarket caps/rotors courtesy of previous owners. The last couple sets I've purchased have been aftermarket Beru caps & Bosch rotors, as the aftermarket Beru rotors are not available in USA.
YMMV, etc...
I generally avoid manufacturers who are not the OEM for Mercedes. MOOG may offer quality parts for some other brands, but I'd be very surprised if they had any top-notch parts for Mercedes. It's far more likely they are reboxing, and possibly reboxing cheap stuff, not OEM.
Disclaimer - I have no direct experience with MOOG:
http://www.moogparts.com/
I generally avoid manufacturers who are not the OEM for Mercedes. MOOG may offer quality parts for some other brands, but I'd be very surprised if they had any top-notch parts for Mercedes. It's far more likely they are reboxing, and possibly reboxing cheap stuff, not OEM.
Disclaimer - I have no direct experience with MOOG:
http://www.moogparts.com/
I can offer some input on Moog. I have used their parts on my other w211 & w210 models previously and found them to be decent quality parts. More recently I have bought the front tie rods and steering drag link Moog brand for my CE. Some pictures-
The items were not re-boxed they are made by Moog. They also have a decent finish to them and the joints articulate without the boot coming off or anything stupid. They also have the Allen heads machined into the studs – many cheap arms out there skip this detail. IMHO they are decent parts.
Thanks for the update! Just curious; was there any country of manufacture mentioned on the labels for the Moog parts?
Side note: I've found that most of the W211 suspension & steering items (tie rod ends, torque arms, ball joints, etc) are all made by CFW; or at least the OE MB original parts have the CFW logo on them along with the Mercedes star logo. But, I've not been particularly impressed with the CFW items. Specifically, they seem to have a shorter lifespan than I think they should. I'm curious if the Lemforder replacements I'm installing will last any longer.
I threw out 2 of the smaller boxes and added the tie rods into the drag link box. That box does not state the country of manufacture on it. I did find this site which describes where they are made (all over the world):
http://www.suspension.com/blog/where-are-moog-parts-made/
Very interesting reading there, particularly the comments section. Bottom line, Moog appears to have changed from manufacturing their own parts in USA, to reboxing from worldwide sources. They may rebox good stuff, or may rebox junk. They might still manufacture some of their own parts in the USA, but it sounds like that is becoming the exception instead of the rule. It was particularly discouraging to read of the one person who received a Meyle (!) part in a Moog box labeled "Made in USA"... second reply to comment # 8, dated Oct-2016:
I just received a second new MOOG inner tie-rod from Rock Auto after returning the first one that was clearly cheap chinese crap in a Moog box marked “Made in USA”, only to receive a Meyle Germany part in the Moog box that’s marked “Made in USA”.
The original order was for two tie-rods, the crap chinese one I returned was accompanied by a high quality Japanese part that also came in a Moog box marked “Made in USA”.
This is not only wrong, it’s illegal under US consumer protection laws.
The original order was for two tie-rods, the crap chinese one I returned was accompanied by a high quality Japanese part that also came in a Moog box marked “Made in USA”.
This is not only wrong, it’s illegal under US consumer protection laws.
The vendor responding to the comments on the page is clinging to the hope that any "Moog Engineer Approved" / "Moog Validated Construction" reboxed part must be ok, because it has the Moog name on it.
Be careful out there.
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