500E / E500 Parts Manufacturer Quality List

[gerryvz]

I do not believe that Moog is an OEM for Mercedes-Benz. Thus, I will never purchase any Moog part for use on my cars.

 

[5thscaleracer]

Moog is not oem to anything. They meet oem specs “so they say”.

I would buy meyle crap over moog any day.


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[JC220]

For clarity I did not suggest for a second that Moog is an OEM supplier to Mercedes - they are not. Last time I got a pair Lemforder are the OEM w124 tie rod manufacturer. But Lemforder are a mixed bag now so MB is the top / best choice no question.

I was simply answering a question raised earlier in this thread as I had the parts on hand.

Recent Lemforder engine mounts (w124 m104) were made in China. No longer the OEM mount in the box. I fear Lemforder may soon fall from the top of the list on page 1 of this thread.

 

[Merso_AMG]

Today some of Lemforder parts have not quality as they should be. I do not trust made in China, or made in Brazil labeled Lemforder parts.

 

[gsxr]

Today some of Lemforder parts have not quality as they should be. I do not trust made in China, or made in Brazil labeled Lemforder parts.

I've noticed the new strut mounts and LCA bushings from Lemforder are made in Brazil (and priced about half of the older Germany-made items). I'm really curious if they will hold up as well as their older parts.

 

[gerryvz]

It’s unfortunate, but I think it is time to move Lemforder from the top list (approved) to the middle (hit or miss/questionable) list. Sad that it’s come to this.


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[gsxr]

I think it's premature to downgrade them based solely on country of manufacture. It's possible that the factories in other countries are producing quality items (not I said possible, not probable). I vote we wait until there are some confirmed low-mile failures of "offshore" Lemforder parts before we tar & feather them.

 

[lowman]

I think it's premature to downgrade them based solely on country of manufacture. It's possible that the factories in other countries are producing quality items (not I said possible, not probable). I vote we wait until there are some confirmed low-mile failures of "offshore" Lemforder parts before we tar & feather them.

+1

 

[Merso_AMG]

Almost 2 weeks i am searching some lemforder suspension (sway bar links) for my car and which are made in Europe are Made in Italy. Can't find German made ones.

 

[Stevester 500E]

I am in need of inner and outer tie rods for my 300ce.
Not sure what to buy. This re-box and made in USA is basically bait and switch.

Very interesting reading there, particularly the comments section. Bottom line, Moog appears to have changed from manufacturing their own parts in USA, to reboxing from worldwide sources. They may rebox good stuff, or may rebox junk. They might still manufacture some of their own parts in the USA, but it sounds like that is becoming the exception instead of the rule. It was particularly discouraging to read of the one person who received a Meyle (!) part in a Moog box labeled "Made in USA"... second reply to comment # 8, dated Oct-2016:

I just received a second new MOOG inner tie-rod from Rock Auto after returning the first one that was clearly cheap chinese crap in a Moog box marked “Made in USA”, only to receive a Meyle Germany part in the Moog box that’s marked “Made in USA”.

The original order was for two tie-rods, the crap chinese one I returned was accompanied by a high quality Japanese part that also came in a Moog box marked “Made in USA”.

This is not only wrong, it’s illegal under US consumer protection laws.​

The vendor responding to the comments on the page is clinging to the hope that any "Moog Engineer Approved" / "Moog Validated Construction" reboxed part must be ok, because it has the Moog name on it.

Be careful out there.

 

[Stevester 500E]

I agree.
The corner lights made in by Automotive Lighting are made in Latvia, I think.
At any rate, they are of better quality that the German Manufactured Bosch ones.
The Bosch ones fade and the rubber turns soft. The AL ones don't fade as fast or as much and the rubber is of better quality, IMO.

I think it's premature to downgrade them based solely on country of manufacture. It's possible that the factories in other countries are producing quality items (not I said possible, not probable). I vote we wait until there are some confirmed low-mile failures of "offshore" Lemforder parts before we tar & feather them.

 

[E_S]

Did a full suspension overhaul a while ago, ended up like this:

LCA: TRW (fixed ball joint, I know about the quality issues, but OE was just way too expensive)
Front shocks: Bilstein B8
Tie rods/drag link/other steering parts: Lemförder (box said made in various European countries)
Steering damper: Febi (had it laying around for ever, easy to replace without needing any alignment if it wears out fast)
Wheel bearings: SKF
Brake discs: Zimmermann
Brake pads: OE Mercedes
Rear control arms: Lemförder
Rear subframe bushings: Lemförder
Rear differential bushings: OE
Rear LCA bushings: OE

Wonder how this will hold up. Going OE on everything would have been way too expensive, but I tried getting the best of the aftermarket stuff that was available. Car is driven max 5000 km/year, so I guess I will never wear out even the worst quality part..

It seems like many brands are lower quality on the NA market than on the European market, anyone else noticed this? Particularly Bosch for the NA market seems to be inferior to European-market Bosch parts.

I always check OE first, but on some parts, the price difference just can't be justified.

 

[Duh_Vinci]

Folks, unless I missed somewhere in these 3 pages, Delphi, for suspension components? I know they manufacture electrical components for MB, but what about rear support arms/camber strut/thrust arm and such?

Regards,
D

 

[MB V8]

What website did you see the rear suspension parts made by Delphi?

 

[gsxr]

AFAIK, for the 124 rear suspension arms, Lemforder is the OEM. (??) Ditto for the 124 front LCA bushings.

I don't think Delphi is the OEM for suspension parts on any year/model Mercedes though...?

 

[Duh_Vinci]

What website did you see the rear suspension parts made by Delphi?

The kit is DELPHI TC1600KIT, sold through Summit and Rockauto (at least those too), many in UK listings

https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/delphi,TC1600KIT,suspension+kit,10922

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2759016&jsn=3

Regards,
D

 

[gsxr]

OMG. That's not the same Delphi that makes MB electrical wiring harnesses.

At $70 for all four links, it's guaranteed to be complete junk. You only want OE or Lemforder for rear links...

 

[Klink]

AFAIK, for the 124 rear suspension arms, Lemforder is the OEM. (??) Ditto for the 124 front LCA bushings.

I don't think Delphi is the OEM for suspension parts on any year/model Mercedes though...?

I don’t recall seeing it, but they may have bought somebody. That’s the old “Delco”, you know. They are everywhere...

 

[Duh_Vinci]

OMG. That's not the same Delphi that makes MB electrical wiring harnesses.

At $70 for all four links, it's guaranteed to be complete junk. You only want OE or Lemforder for rear links...

So moving on and let me save myself the long term headache:



Lemfoerder x2 of each and done...

Regards,
D

 

[gsxr]

Lemfoerder x2 of each and done...

Yup! Don't forget you will also need 6 total of the bolt kits (photo attached).

 

[Duh_Vinci]

Done



Regards,
D

 

[Klink]

I agree.
The corner lights made in by Automotive Lighting are made in Latvia, I think.
At any rate, they are of better quality that the German Manufactured Bosch ones.
The Bosch ones fade and the rubber turns soft. The AL ones don't fade as fast or as much and the rubber is of better quality, IMO.

AL is “Automotive Lighting“ which was a joint venture between Bosch and Magneti Marelli. The AL entity absorbed Bosch and Marelli lighting products and the plants where they were manufactured. AL is now fully owned by Marelli and lots of AL products for our cars are identical to the old Bosch products. Not surprisingly, the branding is now in transition and all mixed up, so that it is not uncommon to find, for recent example, 140 headlights and turn signal assemblies still wearing the “AL” labels while being packed and shipped in Magneti Marelli boxes. In every aspect, including the Czechoslovakia plants they were manufactured in, they appear to be identical to the original Bosch parts. Even the labels and stickers are identical in appearance, the only difference being “AL” appearing on the labels as the brand and not “Bosch”

AL=Bosch=Magneti Marelli when it comes to external lighting products for MB vehicles. To your point about your observed improved longevity of the AL branded components, it would not surprise me if improvements in the materials were made over the years...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AL-Automotive_Lighting

 

[gerryvz]

I saw this today in the Wall Street Journal:



I wonder if that means that the price of URO and other cheap Chinese crap parts will be going up in the future? Could make OEMB/OEM parts perhaps more attractive to many....



Cheers,
Gerry

 

[gsxr]

I saw this today in the Wall Street Journal ... I wonder if that means that the price of URO and other cheap Chinese crap parts will be going up in the future? Could make OEMB/OEM parts perhaps more attractive to many....

Nope, they'll get around that with brilliant labeling as shown below. There's no 25% tarfiff on "unknown"... yet.

 

[lowman]

Re: HOW-TO: Replace Idler Arm Bushing

Thanks to both of you,

Lowman: Glad you didn't go with the URO part!

you are welcome

Well..yeah in many ways im glad that i didnt..but i have to say i would love to buy one..just to see how it "feels like".
As i did say in the video...often stuff about quality is hearsay...and not first hand information and experience..so like in this case..i havent tried the URO part myself.
I did get a cheap idler arm bushing at first for my 190e though..and that i experienced was pretty much a crap part..so indeed cheaper parts "tend" to be "you get what you pay for "material.

What is funny is that on the 129 idler arm bushing...the "manufacturer"s stamp" is unknown to me..and i havent had any luck in diggin for more info either.

 

[emerydc8]

Re: HOW-TO: Replace Idler Arm Bushing

As i did say in the video...often stuff about quality is hearsay...and not first hand information and experience..so like in this case..i havent tried the URO part myself.

I would just as soon leave the old part on the car than install a URO part on it. Although, I am getting concerned that some of the once-reputable aftermarket brands are falling into the junk category.

 

[gerryvz]

Re: HOW-TO: Replace Idler Arm Bushing

Indeed, I would never knowingly put a non-MB replacement part on my cars that was made in China or third-world country, particularly if it is a known faulty brand like URO, Trucktec, Hamburg Technik, Meyle, FEQ, Dorman, KAEhler, and so forth.

I'd much rather, if and when possible, get a used MB part than a new aftermarket part. For example relays, etc.

Lowman, you need to read the Aftermarket Parts Vendor Naughty List. This is not a good facet of Lowmania....

 

[lowman]

Re: HOW-TO: Replace Idler Arm Bushing

Indeed, I would never knowingly put a non-MB replacement part on my cars that was made in China or third-world country, particularly if it is a known faulty brand like URO, Trucktec, Hamburg Technik, Meyle, FEQ, Dorman, KAEhler, and so forth.

I'd much rather, if and when possible, get a used MB part than a new aftermarket part. For example relays, etc.

Lowman, you need to read the Aftermarket Parts Vendor Naughty List. This is not a good facet of Lowmania....

Of course i agree...but the other side of me is still where i would like to find out first hand..and not always just "read and listen" to what some "people" say.Or..let me rephrase..i would take all stuff that ive read and heard..and mix it with personal experience before i condemn something..unless someone has definite "proof" that some part is lacking either here or there .if you see what i mean.
Some parts are of course more important to be sure is holding up..so suspension and steering components arent the area to "experiment"...unless it is a less "vital"part..like this particular idler arm bushing.If it goes bad..all it does isnt gonna push you off the road

But i think we do agree on the fundamentals anyways

EDIT:where is that list?is it on this forum you mean

 

[emerydc8]

Re: HOW-TO: Replace Idler Arm Bushing

It's under Maintenance Documents.

https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1919

 

[gerryvz]

Re: HOW-TO: Replace Idler Arm Bushing

Of course i agree...but the other side of me is still where i would like to find out first hand..and not always just "read and listen" to what some "people" say.Or..let me rephrase..i would take all stuff that ive read and heard..and mix it with personal experience before i condemn something..unless someone has definite "proof" that some part is lacking either here or there .if you see what i mean.
Some parts are of course more important to be sure is holding up..so suspension and steering components arent the area to "experiment"...unless it is a less "vital"part..like this particular idler arm bushing.If it goes bad..all it does isnt gonna push you off the road

But i think we do agree on the fundamentals anyways

EDIT:where is that list?is it on this forum you mean

Read and enjoy this: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/347300-dang-you-%FCro-other-tales-woe.html

Naughty List: https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1919

 

[lowman]

Re: HOW-TO: Replace Idler Arm Bushing

some good info on that Naughty list..but i have to say that many of the brands are indeed misplaced to where they "belong".at least in my experience they are.

But as long as you get the quantity into the equation...it is alot easier to spot good or bad parts.For my part...working on cars daily..seeing tons of different manufacturers/brands..you get a completely different view of which is the best parts..and which is the worst.

With that said..my go to parts are Mercedes only parts...with a 5 to 10 percent percent selected aftermarked parts slapped in there....
The only negative experience i have..are the LCA"s i bought..which i have a video soon to upload..the other is the idle arm bushing i got for my 190e..which was utterly crap..but then again...the worst thing to happen is just more steering play than what should be expected.nothing major really

 

[gerryvz]

HOW-TO: Replace Idler Arm Bushing

Lowman, I have personally sat down and vetted this list with at least three MB repair shop owners, not to mention Jono, Klink and others here have been seeing it for years.

If anything some brands like “Lemforder” need to move down on the list due to cheaper parts.

There are certainly vendors that one could argue pro and con for, but the vendors on the “DO NOT BUY” list are pretty firm and solid.

This thread is one of the most popular ones on this forum, and it is linked to from all over the Internet.

But, I’m all ears if you want to propose changes.

 

[lowman]

of course..im not saying the list was all fictive and randomly put
And in some way it does not matter..cause most of the parts catching my attention..was on the "Sometimes ok " list..which i guess is "ok"
The brands in mind was...Lucas/Girling, Nissens, FTE, and even Corteco..which if i remember corrrectly is the OE supplier for the spheres and seals in some applications.

but again..they were not put in the "never buy" bulk...so its all good

 

[gerryvz]

Sometimes OK vendors can vary by individual products they make.

 

[gsxr]

Sometimes OK vendors can vary by individual products they make.

Exactly correct. Corteco / CFW is indeed OEM for certain parts. However they also sell reboxed junk for other parts, for example the M119 engine mounts, photos of which are on my website. Which is why they are "sometimes ok"... it depends what part you are buying.

 

[gerryvz]

Bosch (spark plugs, distributor caps/rotors) and Lemforder (various suspension parts) are other examples of vendors whose products vary in quality depending if they are "OE" products supplied to MB, or their self-branded aftermarket products.

 

[M104-AMG]

Need to replace the aux. fans on a S124, and I can go either FEBI or ACM for about $80/each. Factory OE is a whopping $346/each !

Any other choices ? I can't justify $600+ for a pair, so if I had to choose FEBI vs ACM, I'm leaning towards ACM.

Thoughts/comments/additional choices ?

:-( neil

 

[nocfn]

Junk yard perhaps..

 

[captruff]

Need to replace the aux. fans on a S124, and I can go either FEBI or ACM for about $80/each. Factory OE is a whopping $346/each !

Any other choices ? I can't justify $600+ for a pair, so if I had to choose FEBI vs ACM, I'm leaning towards ACM.

Thoughts/comments/additional choices ?

:-( neil

Neil:

I have some used fans from some parts cars!


Jeff

 

[M104-AMG]

Jeff - PM with mileage/age on a pair of them.

Thanks,
neil

 

[gsxr]

M104-AMG, just curious, what is the failure mode on your fans? Bearings, brushes, or something else?

Didn't know these went stupid expensive. Wonder what the local junkyard wants for 'em.

For reference, here's a message from some guy named Neil V, back in March 2013, with photo attached as well:

The ACM blades are straight just like the factory/OE fan.

BTW: the ACM fans are sealed motors- no holes like the OE.

Unfortunately, the fan frame had the mounting holes off by about 2-3mm, and is missing the connector "tab holder".

The good thing is the the ACM fans can be swapped into the OE frame.

neil

PS: It's labor intensive, so I ordered up another ACM fan.​

 

[myarmar]

I installed ACM fans a few years ago and they were rotating in a wrong direction. I had to change polarity in the connector. See this thread towards the end.
https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2925
Other than that ACM fans are fine.
Mike

 

[gsxr]

Neil, any chance the new ACM was damaged in shipping?

 

[M104-AMG]

M104-AMG, just curious, what is the failure mode on your fans? Bearings, brushes, or something else?

One Fan blade sheared off. Balance so bad it could be felt throughout the entire car, and sounded horrible.

Swapping fans from my parts wagon.

Dave - where's that post where you show how to remove the aux fans without removing the condenser ?

Thanks,


neil

 

[gsxr]

Dave - where's that post where you show how to remove the aux fans without removing the condenser ?

Here you go... this was for the 500E, a non-036 may be different:

https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2925

 

[M104-AMG]

Neil, any chance the new ACM was damaged in shipping?

I didn't notice any stress or other physical damage on the fans when I first installed, but then again, I'm sure I wasn't looking very closely.

I'm checking the donor fans and motor now, including brush length if possible.

neil

 

[Duh_Vinci]

I have just replaced the water pump on E500, (W211) noticed that MB are all "rebuilt" so I opted for an aftermarket, I've used GRAF before with out any issues, so I ordered it again from importec, along with the belt, roller, etc. Pleased to see that looks to be of good quality, quality gasket, perfect fit and made in Italy



Regards,
D

 

[JC220]

After my China m104 Lemforder engine mounts discovery a couple years back I decided to give Lemforder mounts another chance
again this time for my M275 bi turbo V12.
If China arrived again they were to go back for sure

Happily what turned up were German made mounts with the MB stars ground off. I have compared recent photos of MB boxed mounts and these are them. For £45 each for the Lemforder items I am very pleased to have MB OE parts

 

[gerryvz]

That's encouraging. However, these days, it's important to always smell the rubber, too.

I know you guys don't have Harbor Fright in the UK -- I wish you did. And unfortunately I can't bottle the smell of a Harbor Fright store and send it to you. But the adage "If it smells like the 'Fright, it just isn't right" is important to remember.

Chinese quasi-rubber often has a greasy type texture, and striking, pungent, sharp smell that is a strong departure from German-made rubber.

 

[nocfn]

A box a Crayola crayons smells similar to Harbor Fraud.