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500Eboard Management
722.3 - flaring up badly when warm
- Thread starter Duh_Vinci
- Start date
I hope she shifts like a champ!
Cheers daantjie!
"weirdly therapeutic" interesting you say that, as I found some of these procedures actually were therapeutic! I have 11' table to do the work on, TV, a fairly nice sound system in the garage (since we no longer have the house with the basement, all the extras migrated into the garage).
So sitting there, tinkering with components, listening to music knowing there is absolutely no rush to complete the project - decompress time for sure!
Regards,
D
"weirdly therapeutic" interesting you say that, as I found some of these procedures actually were therapeutic! I have 11' table to do the work on, TV, a fairly nice sound system in the garage (since we no longer have the house with the basement, all the extras migrated into the garage).
So sitting there, tinkering with components, listening to music knowing there is absolutely no rush to complete the project - decompress time for sure!
Regards,
D
Dear folks, for the life of me, can't find the torque specs for transmission cooling lines, the 2x 19mm banjo bolts to transmission housing with 2 crush washer on each, these guys (as in Gerry's post https://www.500eboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28873&d=1398659491 )
Regards,
D
Regards,
D
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Neeeeed more ideas!!!!
The word F**K I must have said 100 times 10 min into the test drive... Back to exactly the same thing what I've started with!!!
10 min on cold transmission - perfect, so happy (was), smooth, quiet, easy shifting. Warmed up, and the very same shit again, revs up, flaring up, not upshifting. Exactly the symptoms it started with before rebuilding the tranny.
If any one could suggest what else could I try after this complete rebuild, not allowing the transmission to upshift when warm, I'd be happy to try something...
I did go through the valve body, no broken springs found, cleaned it all up, replaced K1 and K2 accumulators/springs, could it still be the culprit of the failure?
Regards,
D
P.S. Going to pour me some bourbon now, I deserve it!!!
The word F**K I must have said 100 times 10 min into the test drive... Back to exactly the same thing what I've started with!!!
10 min on cold transmission - perfect, so happy (was), smooth, quiet, easy shifting. Warmed up, and the very same shit again, revs up, flaring up, not upshifting. Exactly the symptoms it started with before rebuilding the tranny.
If any one could suggest what else could I try after this complete rebuild, not allowing the transmission to upshift when warm, I'd be happy to try something...
I did go through the valve body, no broken springs found, cleaned it all up, replaced K1 and K2 accumulators/springs, could it still be the culprit of the failure?
Regards,
D
P.S. Going to pour me some bourbon now, I deserve it!!!
Did you ever get another valve body?Ah crap that is a bummerTake a deep breath (and enjoy the drink first). Sleep on it, then go back and double check everything. Might be something really simple like fluid level? Blockage in cooler lines?
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Yep, bummer... Double checked everything yesterday, no leaks, nothing left disconnected, I've actually cleaned out cooler lines and ran a quart of fresh fluid through them prior to installation.Ah crap that is a bummer
I even let the tranny sit with fresh oil for a day, then drained it all out before starting the car to ensure that no accidental unwanted particles are left...
No, I didn't replace the vale body I just cleaned it out, put all the sections back in their places as per manual (new K1 and K2 spring assemblies)... It almost seem that is the only thing left to try to replace, everything else is pretty much has been done...
Regards,
D
I need to check my stash o transmissions but I may have one with a known good VB which I'd say go ahead and test with.
Now would be a REALLY good time to have a set of transmission pressure gauges....I've got those as well.
Call tomorrow, we can chat some 404.805.1357
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Jono, nice chatting with you and very much appreciate your time and the knowledge! Looking forward to trying to get it to run and shift right! If it makes any difference, the valve body in the car is 140-270-67-07
daantjie The leftover from therapeutic experience (there is another tub of bits and pieces somewhere in the garage)
Regards,
D
daantjie The leftover from therapeutic experience (there is another tub of bits and pieces somewhere in the garage)
Regards,
D
Moving on to parting it out (reluctantly)...
Developed a missfire and rough idle when warm, traced it down, fixed (all moisture related under the caps), cleaned the connectors, replaced the rotors... When for a drive, now there is a metal weird sounds coming from the rear end, somewhere in the diff area. Barely made it back to the driveway. Was going to try another valve body, with with this "extra issue" I'm done...
I look at this car as a great learning experience, it certainly helped me do develop a great amount of confidence, but considering it still needs full re-spray, needs soft top replacement and all the hydraulics re-done, financially, it no longer makes sense to me repairing it any further...
I bought it for parts and proud that I was able to make the engine run perfectly (after 3 shops gave up on it), even drove it for few months... But it is time to let this red devil serve others with spare parts. I'm going to start with interior bits and pieces, engine compartment components would be the last to go (as I still want to be able to move the car around if needs to be)
In a good light, 10 footer, and that is how I'm going to remember it
Regards,
D
P.S. I still have the 744 Silver one, but it is not 500 =(
Developed a missfire and rough idle when warm, traced it down, fixed (all moisture related under the caps), cleaned the connectors, replaced the rotors... When for a drive, now there is a metal weird sounds coming from the rear end, somewhere in the diff area. Barely made it back to the driveway. Was going to try another valve body, with with this "extra issue" I'm done...
I look at this car as a great learning experience, it certainly helped me do develop a great amount of confidence, but considering it still needs full re-spray, needs soft top replacement and all the hydraulics re-done, financially, it no longer makes sense to me repairing it any further...
I bought it for parts and proud that I was able to make the engine run perfectly (after 3 shops gave up on it), even drove it for few months... But it is time to let this red devil serve others with spare parts. I'm going to start with interior bits and pieces, engine compartment components would be the last to go (as I still want to be able to move the car around if needs to be)
In a good light, 10 footer, and that is how I'm going to remember it
Regards,
D
P.S. I still have the 744 Silver one, but it is not 500 =(
In the perfect world, yessss!!! In reality, I'm actually re-thinking my entire parking space at the house, and what I think would happen, is this:
SL500 for parts
C280 to sell
SL320 to sell
Grand Cherokee WJ to sell
And replace those with W211 4matic wagon + a later model R129 Sport (whenever they last year of M119 they offered in that chasis) and that would be good enough. Should be ready by the spring time...
Regards,
D
So... Just for shits, went back to those PDF manual, here is the ATSG troubleshooting guide (my issues are in red brackets)
Other than the first part (I don't know how to check the primary pump pressure, and if it is a failure, I'm not going back inside the tranny, that is for certain), it talks about renewing/replacing the shift valve housing for each scenario. I'm assuming it is the same as the Valve Body? If so, Dave, you and Jono certainly have a great and valid suspicions that the failure can be due to that maize looking pandora box VB with 18 freaking balls and springs!!!!!
So, pleeeeeeeeeeeease... This would be my final attempt to do anything. Car "drives" fine in reverse, no slipping at all... Are there instructions to how to check the pump pressure while on the car? What tools do I need? Is that something I can do myself?
Finally, who has a known working 2nd gear start valve body and wants to part with it? I neeeeeeeed to try one of these...
Regards,
D
I think what they refer to as "shift valve housing" may be the VB, but we'd need Klink or Jono to confirm.
You can measure control pressure by connecting a gauge, you remove a plug on the side of the tranny and attach the gauge to view pressures while driving. MB wants you to set the vac modulator using this method but it's far easier to adjust by feel / trial+error test drives. However, in your case the pressures would be helpful. I wonder if the primary pump could be at fault, as you wouldn't have replaced this.
Gotta be SOMEONE out there who has a leftover 2nd gear start VB! How about all those folks who upgraded to FGS VB's?
You can measure control pressure by connecting a gauge, you remove a plug on the side of the tranny and attach the gauge to view pressures while driving. MB wants you to set the vac modulator using this method but it's far easier to adjust by feel / trial+error test drives. However, in your case the pressures would be helpful. I wonder if the primary pump could be at fault, as you wouldn't have replaced this.
Gotta be SOMEONE out there who has a leftover 2nd gear start VB! How about all those folks who upgraded to FGS VB's?
I think what they refer to as "shift valve housing" may be the VB, but we'd need Klink or Jono to confirm.
You can measure control pressure by connecting a gauge, you remove a plug on the side of the tranny and attach the gauge to view pressures while driving. MB wants you to set the vac modulator using this method but it's far easier to adjust by feel / trial+error test drives. However, in your case the pressures would be helpful. I wonder if the primary pump could be at fault, as you wouldn't have replaced this.
Gotta be SOMEONE out there who has a leftover 2nd gear start VB! How about all those folks who upgraded to FGS VB's?
The "shift valve housing" is the valve body assembly.
D, forgot to ask, are all 3 upshifts flaring? Do any result in no upshift at all, or will it eventually get into 4th gear?
How about downshifts?
Seesms REALLY weird that it shifts perfectly when cold, but terrible after only 10 minutes.
Tease!!!I have my refreshed Stock 036 VB cleaned and vacuum sealed sitting safely in the climate controlled storage unit, it is not for sale....yet
Dave,D, forgot to ask, are all 3 upshifts flaring? Do any result in no upshift at all, or will it eventually get into 4th gear?
How about downshifts?
Seesms REALLY weird that it shifts perfectly when cold, but terrible after only 10 minutes.
Right now, when at operating temps, it is slipping through all the forward gears. I think I actually gets into the 2nd, but just revs up after that... Reverse is fine. The story of this gear box is such:
Bought the car (set outside for 2+ years) - did not move at all, very low on fluid due to leaking B1 and B2 pistons, added 1 bottle of tranny fluid - started to move.
Towed it home... Drained, refilled, replaced filter, started to drive just fine. Replaced B1 and B2 seals. Drained the fluid again after 200 miles. Drove fine for another 200 miles
Started to flare in 3rd>4th on occasion. Replaced fluid with Type F, drove like beast for about 100 miles, then back to flaring 3rd>4th
Another 50 miles of driving in few days, started to get worse as flaring through all the gears, and eventually slipping through all the forward gears at operating temp (but not when cold at first). Replaced the vacuum modulator. No change.
Rebuild the internals, all new seals, new clutch plates and steels, all new teflons and gaskets, brake bands. Unfortunately, no change. When cold, started to drive fine, but with in 5-10 min, back to slipping and flaring, and now still, through all the forward gears.
Reverse seem to be fine regardless of the temperature, even burns tires
Sooooooo, she is parked on the side of the house, haven't had the balls to start parting her out yet...
Regards,
D
P.S. Topless 5.0L is fun thing to drive
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I should think you would finish it if only for mental health reasons after investing that sort of sweat equity in the project. But if it were me I would be putting a 722.6 in with paddle shifters and calling it good.
87 300TD om606 compound turbo
94 e420
85 300tdt
Well, I have the valve body coming my way, I will certainly give it a try, keeping fingers crossed, this would make it drive-able again! 722.6 Would indeed be great, and those can take some serious beating too! Don't have the time or enough "how to" to do something like that.
Regards,
D
P.S. The metal noise coming from rear on the prior test drive silly, really, a piece of gravel stuck at the brake dust shield!
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Well done on the 722.3 rebuild. Not many of us garage heroes attempt that sort of thing. I think it just goes to show how hard these things can be diagnostically. Fyi Mark at Sun Valley will typically pick up the phone if you run into further issues with the project.
Dear folks, I'm about to button up the FGS valve body, however, can't find anywhere the fluid capacity without torque converter drain? I know it's 8 quarts at full service, but I didn't bother draining converter (since the fluid is new), just the pain was drained...
Regards,
D
Regards,
D
If possible, measure what you drained out. Otherwise, as a VERY ROUGH guide, put in 3 quarts and then check the level with the engine running. When cold, the level should at least be on the dipstick, and may be something like 0.5 to 0.75 inches below the MIN mark. If you're lucky, you'll have one of the dipsticks with dual ranges (cold & hot). Assuming you swapped the VB, you may end up adding about 4 quarts to get the level to MAX when fully hot. Remember to only add 1/4 quart at a time, it's easier to add than it is to remove...
A full fluid change, with converter drain, is typically 8.0-8.5 quarts. 124's with 4/5/6-cyl engines take 6-7 quarts, depending on the exact engine/tranny combo.
Draining the pan only, assuming level at MAX and not removing the pan, you'll get 2-3 quarts out. Drop the pan and you can get another half quart or so out... pull the filter & VB and it's an additional half qt.
With new fluid and only swapping VB's, I drain into a clean container (usually, a gallon ATF jug) and re-use the fluid. This is tricky of course, and requires the transmission to be spotless, so no debris gets into the fluid while draining...
Draining the pan only, assuming level at MAX and not removing the pan, you'll get 2-3 quarts out. Drop the pan and you can get another half quart or so out... pull the filter & VB and it's an additional half qt.
With new fluid and only swapping VB's, I drain into a clean container (usually, a gallon ATF jug) and re-use the fluid. This is tricky of course, and requires the transmission to be spotless, so no debris gets into the fluid while draining...
RED DEVIL IS ALIVE!!!!!!!
Thank for the fluids pointers, I left it draining since yesterday, didn't even think about measuring. Today, dropped the pain, indeed more fluid came out, and once the valve body was loosened up, continued to pour indeed! Could have filtered, but, decided not to take any chances, so new fluids of aprox 4 quarts (added little by little), will check it again tomorrow.
My car is 1995 SL500, 722.364 and the valve body I used (thank you samiam44) fom 1992 400E WDBEA34E2NB672775 no swapping intermediate plate was needed
Visually, the only difference I could see is the check valve #24 on the diagram below. First, I was a little puzzled, do I need one, do I not... Really did't want to take VB apart tonight... Reading is fundamental, PDF file clearly states "not used anymore after the omission of the secondary pump" which I don't have, so worries dropped and I proceeded to bolt this pandora box to my 722.364
I have 1st gear start!!! Imagine that!!! Now, it runs, it drives, it shifts and it chirps tires. I'm limited what I can do tonight in terms of doing a proper testing, private subdivision, nevertheless, it drives and it shifts!!! Drove around for 20-25 min to ensure the operating temp is reached (it was failing before after 5-8 min run... Stop and go, shift in auto and manual... Very good starting point!!!
Perfect - no, not yet, its the time to fine tune it via bowden cable, modulator adjustment and may even be via Superior K722A-G kit bits and pieces: upshits a bit too soon, does not want to downshift quickly, however, it does go through all the gears. Driving it while shifting manually up or down is a freaking blast!!! So at this point, I'm as happy as one can be that all this work was not a total waste of my time!!!
Will tune this transmission, I'm sure it would be perfect soon! This read from 2011 posted by Dave is very encoraging and informative!!! https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1038&p=5776&viewfull=1#post5776
So Dave, to the the question on how many transmissions were possibly diagnosed with a "need of full rebuild" where the VB was at fault? At this point, I'm sure, more than one? I know my was trashed, you've seen the clutches, had to be rebuild, and yet still needed that VB to make it all work!
Thank you each and everyone for the feedback, details and encouragement provided, this was truly a great learning experience, and still much to learn. Now the literature on how to tune this 722.364 properly!
Regards,
D
P.S. One of the reasons I didn't want it to go to parts. Ages from what it was when towed it home, it smoooooth!!!
[video=youtube;qHGK7CIWWvM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHGK7CIWWvM[/video]
https://youtu.be/qHGK7CIWWvM
Thank for the fluids pointers, I left it draining since yesterday, didn't even think about measuring. Today, dropped the pain, indeed more fluid came out, and once the valve body was loosened up, continued to pour indeed! Could have filtered, but, decided not to take any chances, so new fluids of aprox 4 quarts (added little by little), will check it again tomorrow.
My car is 1995 SL500, 722.364 and the valve body I used (thank you samiam44) fom 1992 400E WDBEA34E2NB672775 no swapping intermediate plate was needed
Visually, the only difference I could see is the check valve #24 on the diagram below. First, I was a little puzzled, do I need one, do I not... Really did't want to take VB apart tonight... Reading is fundamental, PDF file clearly states "not used anymore after the omission of the secondary pump" which I don't have, so worries dropped and I proceeded to bolt this pandora box to my 722.364
I have 1st gear start!!! Imagine that!!! Now, it runs, it drives, it shifts and it chirps tires. I'm limited what I can do tonight in terms of doing a proper testing, private subdivision, nevertheless, it drives and it shifts!!! Drove around for 20-25 min to ensure the operating temp is reached (it was failing before after 5-8 min run... Stop and go, shift in auto and manual... Very good starting point!!!
Perfect - no, not yet, its the time to fine tune it via bowden cable, modulator adjustment and may even be via Superior K722A-G kit bits and pieces: upshits a bit too soon, does not want to downshift quickly, however, it does go through all the gears. Driving it while shifting manually up or down is a freaking blast!!! So at this point, I'm as happy as one can be that all this work was not a total waste of my time!!!
Will tune this transmission, I'm sure it would be perfect soon! This read from 2011 posted by Dave is very encoraging and informative!!! https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1038&p=5776&viewfull=1#post5776
So Dave, to the the question on how many transmissions were possibly diagnosed with a "need of full rebuild" where the VB was at fault? At this point, I'm sure, more than one?
I know my was trashed, you've seen the clutches, had to be rebuild, and yet still needed that VB to make it all work!Thank you each and everyone for the feedback, details and encouragement provided, this was truly a great learning experience, and still much to learn. Now the literature on how to tune this 722.364 properly!
Regards,
D
P.S. One of the reasons I didn't want it to go to parts. Ages from what it was when towed it home, it smoooooth!!!
[video=youtube;qHGK7CIWWvM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHGK7CIWWvM[/video]
https://youtu.be/qHGK7CIWWvM
RED DEVIL IS ALIVE!!!!!!!
Thank for the fluids pointers...
I have 1st gear start!!! Imagine that!!! Now, it runs, it drives, it shifts and it chirps tires...
Perfect - no, not yet, its the time to fine tune it via bowden cable, modulator adjustment and may even be via Superior K722A-G kit bits and pieces: upshits a bit too soon, does not want to downshift quickly, however, it does go through all the gears. Driving it while shifting manually up or down is a freaking blast!!!
Adjust the Bowden cable 2mm tighter, then see her downshift quicker and upshift later. Do that before you even think about shift firmness (modulator). If 2mm is too much, go back to 1mm, if not enough, go to 3mm.
It's quicker, easier, and more effective for your complaints.
Congrats and GL.
maw
P.S. Be aware that if you go too far in the Bowden cable adjustment, you may get a CEL. Those fine tuning amounts are what I learned from the experts here and at Sun Valley Transmission when I did this a few years ago. I know 2mm feels like tiddlywinks, but trust me it's not.
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Thanks maw, will definitely start with the Bowden adjustment! Really looking forward seeing this thing rippin through gears again!
Regards,
D
YEAH! Awesome news - congrats! I really, really wonder what was wrong with your old VB... especially since you tore it down & cleaned everything .
Side note: The 1992 400E VB you have (from WDBEA34E2NB672775) is not the original. The part number inked is 124-270-69-15 (minus the 270) and based on the font & format, appears to be from a factory rebuilt transmission. This would make sense as the #69 VB was only used on later .034's (1993-up). Since the round check valve #24 was present, it may have been an upgraded/rebuilt VB based on a 1992 VB. Just a bit of trivia as no 1992 400E left the factory with a #69 VB.
maw is correct, btw, fiddle with the Bowden/control cable adjustment at the linkage behind the airbox to fine-tune the upshift points. As he said, a little goes a long way. Unfortunately you cannot modify the individual shift points (i.e., if 1-2 is early but 2-3 and 3-4 are ok, that is controlled by internal VB wizardry). Based on your description, I think the linkage adjustment may get you where you want to be.
Side note: The 1992 400E VB you have (from WDBEA34E2NB672775) is not the original. The part number inked is 124-270-69-15 (minus the 270) and based on the font & format, appears to be from a factory rebuilt transmission. This would make sense as the #69 VB was only used on later .034's (1993-up). Since the round check valve #24 was present, it may have been an upgraded/rebuilt VB based on a 1992 VB. Just a bit of trivia as no 1992 400E left the factory with a #69 VB.
maw is correct, btw, fiddle with the Bowden/control cable adjustment at the linkage behind the airbox to fine-tune the upshift points. As he said, a little goes a long way. Unfortunately you cannot modify the individual shift points (i.e., if 1-2 is early but 2-3 and 3-4 are ok, that is controlled by internal VB wizardry). Based on your description, I think the linkage adjustment may get you where you want to be.
Dave, no idea, old VB puzzles me too, all looked good, I cleaned all out, no broken pieces at all, but that's all in the past...
Great "detective" work on the my FGS unit, I thought I've read somewhere that 69 as a part of ink stamp indicates a late unit, thank you for confirming that! Now, to #24 check valve, this FGS unit did not have it, which also confirms that it was built for the unit without the secondary pump.
My valve body however, had #24 check valve. So that makes me wonder if my valve body was NOT original to my car to begin with... and if it was, what was the point of that valve since I don't have secondary pump in my gearbox?
Too late today to mess with the car, will not have time until Thursday, but very much looking forward to seeing through these adjustments!
Regards,
D
Does this thing want to challenge me: No kickdown 
Cold engine - higher gear keeps fine until warm
No slipping, 1st gear start up...
Upshifts at about 2k (almost immediately) into 2nd, 3rd and into 4th.
Absolutely NO kickdown at any throttle point
Does not downshfit under load
Dowshifts back to the 1st and near stop just fine
Can be shifted up and down manually with perfect engagement (beast)
Adjustment of bowden cable made no difference (tightens up fine)
Checked the kick down solenoid wire - gear selector in "B" ignition on = voltage
Direct connected solenoid to 12V, clicks solidly
Resistance of the solenoid 14-15ohm (ish)
Soooooo... Where do I go from there (short of driving this ting manually)?
Regards,
D
Cold engine - higher gear keeps fine until warm
No slipping, 1st gear start up...
Upshifts at about 2k (almost immediately) into 2nd, 3rd and into 4th.
Absolutely NO kickdown at any throttle point
Does not downshfit under load
Dowshifts back to the 1st and near stop just fine
Can be shifted up and down manually with perfect engagement (beast)
Adjustment of bowden cable made no difference (tightens up fine)
Checked the kick down solenoid wire - gear selector in "B" ignition on = voltage
Direct connected solenoid to 12V, clicks solidly
Resistance of the solenoid 14-15ohm (ish)
Soooooo... Where do I go from there (short of driving this ting manually)?
Regards,
D
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I almost want to say keep adjusting the Bowden cable until you get some kickdown. But I want to see what others think. It could be that your Bowden cable was so far out of spec that the classic 2mm did nothing. When you mash it too the floor from start, what are the upshift RPM points? IIRC, even first gear should hold to around 4K.
I’m starting to suspect that prior owners condemned the car over the transmission because they didn’t have this Board to sort it through. But that would be heady.
maw
I’m starting to suspect that prior owners condemned the car over the transmission because they didn’t have this Board to sort it through. But that would be heady.
maw
Cheer maw!
The prior owner gave up on the car after 3 shops did over $3K worth of work for misfiring and idle issues (throttle body replacement, engine wiring harness, MAF, caps, rotors, etc...). However, 2 major issues were improper routing/connecting of vacuum hoses under the hood, some where missing, and what was a "BOSCH Re-manufactured" MAF was actually defective!
I've replaced every single vacuum line, every elbow and every rubber fittings, cleaned out all the connectors on rotors and caps - lots of moisture issues of the past and replaced with MAF with a good used unit. Engine is running excellent! I drove the car for few months, no tranny issues back during that time...
To the gearbox... I maxed out the bowden cable, next turn it raises RPMs... There is no kick down of any sort under no load at any speed. 2K RPMs is where it shifts up. Even at the full down mash of pedal (that under the pedal switch) - it does not downshift at all. Could this under the pedal switch be a culprit or something else?
Regards,
D
Not the best video, but you get the idea... https://youtu.be/EdTowIQ3bRo
The prior owner gave up on the car after 3 shops did over $3K worth of work for misfiring and idle issues (throttle body replacement, engine wiring harness, MAF, caps, rotors, etc...). However, 2 major issues were improper routing/connecting of vacuum hoses under the hood, some where missing, and what was a "BOSCH Re-manufactured" MAF was actually defective!
I've replaced every single vacuum line, every elbow and every rubber fittings, cleaned out all the connectors on rotors and caps - lots of moisture issues of the past and replaced with MAF with a good used unit. Engine is running excellent! I drove the car for few months, no tranny issues back during that time...
To the gearbox... I maxed out the bowden cable, next turn it raises RPMs... There is no kick down of any sort under no load at any speed. 2K RPMs is where it shifts up. Even at the full down mash of pedal (that under the pedal switch) - it does not downshift at all. Could this under the pedal switch be a culprit or something else?
Regards,
D
Not the best video, but you get the idea... https://youtu.be/EdTowIQ3bRo
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If you have validated that the switch is actually sending the signal, i would suggest that you check to make sure the signal is making it to the solenoid. In other words, verify the wiring is intact and functional.
Glad to see you are still chipping away!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Glad to see you are still chipping away!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah man, still fiddling with this Pandora's box... Voltage to the kick down solenoid is good, checked with gear selector on "B" ignition on...
I don't get this thing... No kick down at all... This illustration:
722.3_valve_body
The #7 valve is the range/gear selector: manually transmission operates perfect, as this valve presumably changes the pressure in the valve body by being moved in or out within the VB through the gear selector (B-2-3-D etc). Holding very well, again, manually selected only.
The #3 valve is controlled by the little hook/lever that is in turn attached to the Bowden cable (checked the actual cable before installing it back into the car, moved fully). The more pressure applied, the further in this plunger is pressed into the VB, altering the pressure inside the VB and that should assist with downshifting the car via the gas pedal. But it does not downshift...???
I wish I knew more about this stuff... But I do know there is ZERO downshift via gas pedal at the moment...
Regards,
D
I don't get this thing... No kick down at all... This illustration:
722.3_valve_bodyThe #7 valve is the range/gear selector: manually transmission operates perfect, as this valve presumably changes the pressure in the valve body by being moved in or out within the VB through the gear selector (B-2-3-D etc). Holding very well, again, manually selected only.
The #3 valve is controlled by the little hook/lever that is in turn attached to the Bowden cable (checked the actual cable before installing it back into the car, moved fully). The more pressure applied, the further in this plunger is pressed into the VB, altering the pressure inside the VB and that should assist with downshifting the car via the gas pedal. But it does not downshift...???
I wish I knew more about this stuff... But I do know there is ZERO downshift via gas pedal at the moment...
Regards,
D
VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!! and to that my friends I drink!!!!!!!
My mistake!!! After looking at the illustration above, and back in the garage at the actual old VB, and thinking why it downshifts via #7 (connected to Gear Lever Selector) and NOT downshifts via #3 (connected to Bowden Cable), no physical pressure to #3 via Bowden cable? I went under the hood.
Somehow, during all the removal/rebuild process, the plastic V-shaped lever that Bowden cable connects to at the throttle linkage assembly - flipped backwards on 360 on axis. And while the Bowden cable looked tight and was fully connected, when the gas pedal was pressed, it did not move that V shaped lever or the Bowden cable at all, hence, no pressure was applied to #3 valve plunger at the VB hence no downshifts...
This is rookie mistake, feel like a dumbasss, but I'm also a stubborn ass and don't give up easy!!!
I will firm up the modulator a bit tomorrow and will fine tune the cable, otherwise, just took it for the drive with my 74 year old father, smile from ear to ear, he has been "cheering" for the well being of this R129 since day one...
Beast and with the 1st Gear Start!!! I'm aftraid that as often that ASR warning light comes on now, I will be forced to replace that light bulb
Cheers all!!!!
D
My mistake!!! After looking at the illustration above, and back in the garage at the actual old VB, and thinking why it downshifts via #7 (connected to Gear Lever Selector) and NOT downshifts via #3 (connected to Bowden Cable), no physical pressure to #3 via Bowden cable? I went under the hood.
Somehow, during all the removal/rebuild process, the plastic V-shaped lever that Bowden cable connects to at the throttle linkage assembly - flipped backwards on 360 on axis. And while the Bowden cable looked tight and was fully connected, when the gas pedal was pressed, it did not move that V shaped lever or the Bowden cable at all, hence, no pressure was applied to #3 valve plunger at the VB hence no downshifts...
This is rookie mistake, feel like a dumbasss, but I'm also a stubborn ass and don't give up easy!!!
I will firm up the modulator a bit tomorrow and will fine tune the cable, otherwise, just took it for the drive with my 74 year old father, smile from ear to ear, he has been "cheering" for the well being of this R129 since day one...
Beast and with the 1st Gear Start!!! I'm aftraid that as often that ASR warning light comes on now, I will be forced to replace that light bulb
Cheers all!!!!
D
Under heavy throttle, from a dead stop, you should get upshifts at progressively higher RPM's as the throttle position increases. The more plunger #3 goes in, the higher RPM's are. This will also allow kickdown without clicking the switch under the gas pedal, if RPM's are low enough.
Question: As you are adjusting the Bowden cable at the linkage behind the airbox, are you getting ANY change in upshift RPM's? If not, I think your Bowden cable is not properly attached to the small L-shaped rod inside the transmission.
EDIT: Nevermind! I posted before seeing your last post. Congrats on the fix!
Question: As you are adjusting the Bowden cable at the linkage behind the airbox, are you getting ANY change in upshift RPM's? If not, I think your Bowden cable is not properly attached to the small L-shaped rod inside the transmission.
EDIT: Nevermind! I posted before seeing your last post. Congrats on the fix!
Dave, believe me, thought about, but I remember testing the cable after connecting to the gear box before mounting the VB, and also remember that I mounted it well under the hood, cir-clip and all... But to the "flipped" mounting lever under the hood???
Here are my excuses: Never done it before, took apart too many things, way too tight between the motor and the firewall
Regards,
D
Congrats! You explained your problems clearly enough that folks who have done it could help you. It sounded like the cable was askew. Enjoy that FGS VB. It really transforms these cars a bit, while maintaining factory feel.
So your dad gets to keep the car?
maw
So your dad gets to keep the car?
maw
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Cheers maw!
Very happy to have this resolved, and very happy that it's not another part out.
Dad, well, he loves the looks of R129, and after I got this one to run, asked if he would like to have it if I restore it completely. Unfortunately he can barely get in and out of this car, mom can't even do that (ex nurse, spine is shot) Just not for them. Nevertheless, anytime I work on the cars, their place or mine, paps always tries to help or just brings his comfy folding camping chair, sits down cheers for good results.
I bought him and mom a Deville few years back, he loves it it's comfortable and well suited for both of them. He says it's perfect for "old people" so this red devil is mine after restore.
Regards,
D
Very happy to have this resolved, and very happy that it's not another part out.
Dad, well, he loves the looks of R129, and after I got this one to run, asked if he would like to have it if I restore it completely. Unfortunately he can barely get in and out of this car, mom can't even do that (ex nurse, spine is shot) Just not for them. Nevertheless, anytime I work on the cars, their place or mine, paps always tries to help or just brings his comfy folding camping chair, sits down cheers for good results.
I bought him and mom a Deville few years back, he loves it it's comfortable and well suited for both of them. He says it's perfect for "old people" so this red devil is mine after restore.
Regards,
D
[emoji106][emoji2532][emoji106][emoji2532][emoji106][emoji2532]
I can’t believe that you could mess something like that up! I mean the throttle linkages on these things are just SOOO straightforward!
Great job! I remember having an ‘oh sh*t’ moment after disassembling the intake and linkage on the 420. Crank arms, linkages, pivots and springs everywhere. Complicated and not super straightforward, but when you take a step back, logical and beautiful.
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I can’t believe that you could mess something like that up! I mean the throttle linkages on these things are just SOOO straightforward!
Great job! I remember having an ‘oh sh*t’ moment after disassembling the intake and linkage on the 420. Crank arms, linkages, pivots and springs everywhere. Complicated and not super straightforward, but when you take a step back, logical and beautiful.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I can lol and now that I think back, I know exactly how it happen! One night was cold was wearing thick coat while tightening down the bell housing bolts/nuts, sleeve must have pushed it backwards...I can’t believe that you could mess something like that up! I mean the throttle linkages on these things are just SOOO straightforward!
Warmed up the car, and a test drive after some minor adjustments to the Bowden cable and modulator - what a fun thing it is!!!
[video=youtube_share;A9UZeUYJOzw]https://youtu.be/A9UZeUYJOzw[/video]
Regards,
D
You’ve seen my prior posts on this. But when these boxes are tuned, it completely transforms the car into something you can actually see driving every single day, missing nothing compared to what’s on the road. 4 vs 3 easily accessible gears really wakes the .3 boxes up, IMO.
The highest number of years I have in any car is 6 (E46 M3), and I can’t figure out why anyone cares about these 7-9 speed gear boxes. Yes, I can see why not 4. But more than 6, I don’t get. It’s just more gears to bypass when downshifting.
maw
The highest number of years I have in any car is 6 (E46 M3), and I can’t figure out why anyone cares about these 7-9 speed gear boxes. Yes, I can see why not 4. But more than 6, I don’t get. It’s just more gears to bypass when downshifting.
maw
I believe 7/8/9/10 gears in transmission is primarily to help mfr's hit government-mandated fuel economy requirements.
There's a side benefit of the extra gears slightly improving straight-line performance, as it keeps the engine in the peak powerband for longer periods of time.
But in general, all them gears are definitely not enhancing the driving experience.
Completely agree. Our 2011 A4 with 8 forward speeds drives me nuts. Constantly hunting to find the right gear.
When you drop it into 'Sport' it completely locks out anything above 6. 7 and 8 are 'MPG only' cogs.
I can lol and now that I think back, I know exactly how it happen! One night was cold was wearing thick coat while tightening down the bell housing bolts/nuts, sleeve must have pushed it backwards
Warmed up the car, and a test drive after some minor adjustments to the Bowden cable and modulator - what a fun thing it is!!!
[video=youtube_share;A9UZeUYJOzw]https://youtu.be/A9UZeUYJOzw[/video]
Regards,
D
Wow! Is it me? Or does the MPG gauge actually start to bend once it 'pegs' out slightly beyond 10?
Agree with you guys, I certainly feel that those "manyextramultigear" transmissions do very little to nothing to the driving experience, but fuel savings... Frankly, I'm fine with the 5 geared cars, 6 would be nice on the highway for lower RPMs.
Regards,
D
Oh yeah, it is stressssssin!!! Prior owner was a local doctor, well into his retirement, this car is not use to it!!! BTW, I see your siggie, 18.9... Wonder what's the average I was getting today, before the snow started???Wow! Is it me? Or does the MPG gauge actually start to bend once it 'pegs' out slightly beyond 10?
Regards,
D
