95' C36 AMG Brake Rotors

[anderzen]

Hello All,

I have an early 05/95 C36 that has the 320mm directional front rotors and AMG engraved logo calipers. Long story short, I am just putting this out as a feeler for anyone who may have knowledge of the situation I am in.

I know the factory part number for stock rotors is:
HWA 202-421-01-12 (left)
HWA 202-421-02-12 (right)

Brake pads also btw (005 420 0220 41)

Luckily they are in fact still available, left being special order from Germany, right 1 in the US.

My question being the guy always searching for highest quality and most cost efficient routes (and also just genuinely curious) in this game of love with these machines...
Does anyone here know of an alternative? From Research it shows the R129 600SL rotors are very close and may be compatible based off dimensions, some also say they require a spacer behind the rotor to get to correct offset... and others say ditch the whole thing and throw on my stock C55 4 pot setup I have sitting in my garage!

Putting this out as a feeler of information out there others may know...

Thx,
ANDERZÉN

 

[2phast]

I know the early C36 rotors/calipers are different from the later models. If based off your VIN, you do indeed have the early setup, see what the later model C36's have available. I don't remember the details, but when I owned a early 95 C36, several times when ordering parts, I kept getting the later model parts.

 

[anderzen]

based off VIN and measurements yes, these are the ones I have the early version, 96' 97' parts won't be compatible with 95' calipers.

 

[gsxr]

Does anyone here know of an alternative? From Research it shows the R129 600SL rotors are very close and may be compatible based off dimensions, some also say they require a spacer behind the rotor to get to correct offset... and others say ditch the whole thing and throw on my stock C55 4 pot setup I have sitting in my garage!

Stick with OE unless you are upgrading. The stock brakes should be adequate for street use with stock power levels.

 

[anderzen]

Bit the bullet and paid the $250 shipped for the originals, s/o as always to MBoemparts for free shipping.. I know to some of you this may sound like nothing, but I haven't paid more than $100 for a set of rotors ever well besides my 6 piston upgrade on the C55...
However being this was a 1 owner dealer serviced car and is something I plan to keep forever, it's worth it... now to pick out pads!

 

[gsxr]

Pads... OE MB, or Porterfield R4-S. You won't like the price on the latter.

 

[anderzen]

I have heard good things about Porterfield's, and also about their price haha!

I see Brembo has a few options from searching 005-420-02-20-41, however both show compatible but one is 16mm thickness and one is 17.5mm... what gives???

BREMBO P50010N
BREMBO P50022N

 

[gsxr]

Brembo consumer/aftermarket pads are generally not well regarded, AFAIK... don't get enticed by a low price. Porterfields are expensive, but worth it. Buy once, cry once, yadda x3.

The early C36 calipers use the same pad size as the 294, 295, 300, and 320mm brakes used on the 124/129, generic pad number 561 / AP-561. A "thin" version of this pad is required for the 294x25 calipers/rotors, but I believe the other sizes use the normal / thicker pad. The thick pad won't fit in the 294 caliper with a new rotor. The early C36 calipers are very similar to the late E500E and R129 SL600, but inverted left/right with opposite bleed screw locations. Can't use C36 calipers on a 124/129, or vice-versa.

Remember that the early 400E came with the 295x22 brakes that were woefully inadequate, and MB's Band-Aid fix was to make the rotor 3mm thicker, along with 1mm smaller (294x25)... don't know why, but that's where the oddball size and thin pad came from.

 

[anderzen]

ahh yes, that was showing up on Rockauto, checking Brembo site they show the P50022N or P50022 (16mm) as only option...
I guess I will go ceramic to help rotors last since I don't plan on driving this car to the point of needing impenetrable brakes... maybe
You are the GOAT for a reason Dave! Thx as always!

 

[gsxr]

Remember that ceramics may have wooden pedal feel, and can squeak in cold/freezing temps. I tried a few ceramic pads and their only good qualities are light dust, and they last forever. But for actual stopping... meh. YMMV, and if you are happy with ceramics that you've used on other cars, you may be happy with them on the C36 too.

 

[2phast]

I have ran the Porterfields and EBC. Both EBC Greenstuff and Redstuff, with the latter being superior. OEM pads create too much dust. A good aftermarket pad, SS brake lines and high temp brake fluid is all you need. I used to track my C36 and other than the upgrades I mentioned, no additional work was needed.

 

[anderzen]

I run EBC yellow stuff on my C55 and like them. Luckily the car came with B12 lowering kit and BF Goodridge ss lines all around. I’ll have to find part no. on the EBC’s

 

[gsxr]

Yellowstuff for early C36 should be EBC # DP4927R, but double check that.

 

[skikrazey]

Highly recommend Porterfield R4-S pads!!! Well worth the cost!!!

 

[TerryA]

I run Porterfields on my 500E. I bought the car with a set installed at 89K miles. I put in a new set sometime later and they are still good at 143K miles. They stop great with minimal dust. In my opinion they are the best.

 

[195910]

You could try the 1997 C36 AMG brake disc, but I am not sure about the caliper/dust shield required.

The 97 C36 does not use a HWA part number brake disc, but rather a standard W210 E420 brake disc! Significantly less costly and readily available. Zimmermann make a cross-drilled variant with upgraded brake pads for less than 300 Euros in Germany

 

[anderzen]

I just don’t know if those parts will retro fit to the 95’ 320mm setup… or if the 316mm would work with my calipers, I feel like I’d have to order all of them to test fit and know for sure.

 

[gsxr]

I just don’t know if those parts will retro fit to the 95’ 320mm setup… or if the 316mm would work with my calipers, I feel like I’d have to order all of them to test fit and know for sure.

You must get matching calipers+rotors. Can't mix parts.

 

[195910]

You could try the 1997 C36 AMG brake disc, but I am not sure about the caliper/dust shield required.

The 97 C36 does not use a HWA part number brake disc, but rather a standard W210 E420 brake disc! Significantly less costly and readily available. Zimmermann make a cross-drilled variant with upgraded brake pads for less than 300 Euros in Germany

Here are the 1997 C36 AMG front brake discs and pads part numbers:

2x A2104211712
A0054200220

 

[anderzen]

welp... MBoemparts canceled the order, said no longer available. I may just have to use my brand new W203 C55 setup, I can't justify more time or cost on this when I have a worthy upgrade sitting in my garage, even have a separate set of track pads I never used!

For the purists, don't worry, I plan to do a full resto on the stock calipers and if I figure something out down the line I'll throw them back in. They will at very least always stay with the car. Truthfully, with the monoblocks you can't really see the brakes much anyway so no big in my mind. $350+ I was going to spend on these can be better used elsewhere restoring this dream machine!

What I would like to do is talk with a few brake rotor manufacturers and hopefully be able to send them my used stocks for measurement so they can reproduce a more cost effective and more importantly, available option possibly.

 

[dionphaneuf]

I'd also advocate for the Porterfield R4-Ss. I use them on the rear on my 500E and while they are $80 for the axle vs less for the OEs, the OEs/Akebono's squealed like crazy and I spent several hours troubleshooting this and many times annoying my neighbors when I leave for work. The dust is not noticeable at all.

 

[anderzen]

I honestly don't care about dust, I run aggressive pads on all my cars for the most part and avoid ceramics in general, the only reason I considered was because of the cost of the previous mentioned rotors lol but now, that's out the window. From looking the R4-S is not that expensive anyway, was lead to believe they were way more expensive than they are, never checked for myself till yesterday.

 

[szvook]

I never considered the Porterfield R4-S pads to be expensive. Sure they cost a bit more than other pads, but sometimes you need to pay for quality and they provide that. Hell, the price we pay for good wheels make the cost for R4-S pads look cheap. I’m on a second set of HRE wheels and if I went back and tallied up their combined cost, I would have a slight heart attack.

I haven’t tried many other pads, but once I got the R4-S pads, they fulfilled all of my needs from a pad and then some. Been running them since 2007 and have no need to try any other pad. And they held up from periodic track usage without going to the R4 pads, just required changing them sooner compared to street use.

 

[anderzen]

So update just for knowledge sake I guess...
These R129 rotors had been in questions because they are the correct size dimensions 320x30mm... However,
I pulled the stock rotors and calipers off yesterday to test fit my W203 C55 setup (direct bolt-on btw) and confirmed suspicions that the C36 rotor offsets would be different. The R129 rotors show a offset of 50.5mm and the C36's measured right around 44.5mm.
R129 rotors in question: A1294211712 & A1294211812
So theoretically I could run a 5-6mm spacer behind the rotor and retain the factory engraved AMG caliper but... not something I have done personally and seems a bit hairy... plus with the C55 setup being bolt on, don't really feel like spending more time or money on this when I have everything laying right here...
only modification need for C55 setup is bending the brake shielding back a few mm at the top and bottom.

 

[gsxr]

The R129 rotors show a offset of 50.5mm and the C36s measured right around 44.5mm.
R129 rotors in question: A1294211712 & A1294211812
So theoretically I could run a 5-6mm spacer behind the rotor and retain the factory engraved AMG caliper ...

Don't forget lug bolts that are at least as much longer as the spacer, i.e. a 6mm spacer would require minimum 46mm lug bolt length, etc.

BTW - did you call a local dealer and ask about availability of the early C36 rotors? Multiple people have reported Naperville cancelling orders on parts that were claimed to be "NLA" when in reality, it was a part they didn't want to bother sourcing from Germany, or for other unknown reasons. Anytime Naperville says "NLA" and MBCC shows otherwise (see below), I would strongly recommend getting a second opinion elsewhere.

Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search.

Browse through the Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search to see the availability of parts, promotional and newly manufactured parts and order them online (only in Germany).

partssearch.mercedes-benz-classic.com

Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search.

Browse through the Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search to see the availability of parts, promotional and newly manufactured parts and order them online (only in Germany).

partssearch.mercedes-benz-classic.com

 

[anderzen]

I have 75mm stud conversion so that part isn't a worry.
Funny enough, MB classic center did say on the phone that there was 1 of the right side in the US and they could get left side order from Germany, however, it would have been about $350 plus with shipping comparatively, that is where it gets outside of the range of worthiness I guess for me price wise.

 

[gsxr]

I have 75mm stud conversion so that part isnt a worry.
Funny enough, MB classic center did say on the phone that there was 1 of the right side in the US and they could get left side order from Germany, however, it would have been about $350 plus with shipping comparatively, that is where it gets outside of the range of worthiness I guess for me price wise.

Try other dealers besides MBCC. They make it sound like ordering from Germany is some elite special process that you should be grateful they will perform for you. In reality, there is NO difference for a dealer when they place the order - except that the Germany items take an extra week or two vs items in USA warehouses. Mercedes does not stock the USA warehouses with items that are super low volume, they keep those items in Germany, and ship to whatever country orders the part when an order is placed. This is totally normal.


For example MB of Laredo, TX is showing under $250 delivered for the pair...

WA-202-421-01-12 - Braeke Disc MB Parts Source

Factory Direct Braeke Disc (wa2024210112) For Your

www.mbpartsource.com

WA-202-421-02-12 - Braeke Disc MB Parts Source

Factory Direct Braeke Disc (wa2024210212) For Your

www.mbpartsource.com

 

[anderzen]

haha that emoji describes my mind perfectly right now! Thx Dave, I am tempted... but man the C55 brakes fit so good and are lighter and bigger...

 

[gsxr]

Are the C55 brakes 345x30 from a 203.076 (same as C32 / 203.065)? If you have all the components, that would be a nice upgrade.

 

[anderzen]

yep, directly off my C55 since I upgraded to 6 pistons. I literally have brand new everything for them Rotors/pads because I didn't ever intend to upgrade to 6 pistons then out of nowhere scored a deal on brand new CLK63 calipers...
Was going to use them for my E420 with S500 backplates and brake lines I machined to fit, but, this is literally a bolt on affair which kind of feels meant to be haha. I don't think I can justify the cost with that said, even at $250 I didn't feel great about it and in all honesty felt kind of relieved when it was refunded kind of felt like it's meant to be. Running 5 of these vessels and making videos on all of them isn't cheap as far as time or money goes so although it's not a lot, in the grand scheme, every little bit saved of those two assets counts tremendously towards keeping this whole thing going.
Also, from talking with Steve Geyer (local guru) he said this was a very common kind of later on upgrade he did for customers... so slightly period correct Retro fit Mod bonus points?

 

[anderzen]

welp... after fully installing one side and beginning on the other side (in my excitement)... I somehow missed the fact that the rotor and caliper are making contact on the inner side ... so back to the drawing board. Does this mean that the 95's with this 320mm setup actually may have a different spindle?? I do not know yet, but know for a fact a handful of C36's have done this exact setup soooo... stumped for now.
This may be the car's way of telling me KEEP ME ORIGINAL

 

[anderzen]

Alright so... after more and more research I confirmed through mutual experience of others with early model W202's there is in fact a difference in offset and design of spindle versus late models...Crazy if you ask me! So... rather than trying to space the caliper out, I decided to file down the two little ears on the inner side of the C55 caliper that were interfering with the C55 rotor (which is 345x30 with a 46.5mm offset).

This allows everything to spin freely now, however the one sacrifice is the rotor is not perfectly in the middle of the pads. The outer pad has about 4mm of clearance and the inner about 1mm when the pistons are fully compressed, talking with local Mercedes guru Steve G, he doesn't believe this will cause any issues as even if the pads were way worn down the piston in caliper wouldn't have a chance to pop out...
AND! I was able to order the original Rotors though MB Parts Source, thx @gsxr ! SO I will have the stock calipers fully refreshed and the whole setup sitting ready in case I want to switch back, at the very least will make very cool garage wall ornaments

Thanks again to all who chimed in, I feel like I have already so many little nuances since acquiring this special car, look forward to continuing that journey and hopefully helping some others in the process with info and visuals!

 

[anderzen]

The Final Update?
I ended up clearancing my calipers as mentioned before and although one side of the pads was further away from the rotor, once the brakes were bled things sat and performed just fine. I did re-route the ss lines and grommet bracket a bit to make things a smoother connection as well.
The other good news, the HWA rotors showed up from Germany, they are actually quite good looking!
I will have the original calipers refreshed and will likely throw them on sometime down the road.

 

[yao500e]

The Final Update?
I ended up clearancing my calipers as mentioned before and although one side of the pads was further away from the rotor, once the brakes were bled things sat and performed just fine. I did re-route the ss lines and grommet bracket a bit to make things a smoother connection as well.
The other good news, the HWA rotors showed up from Germany, they are actually quite good looking!
I will have the original calipers refreshed and will likely throw them on sometime down the road.

I saw your youtube video on the C55 brake swap to '95 C36. Awesome stuff.
At the end of it all, do you recommend this brakes upgrade or just stay stock 320mm brakes?

I also read that w210 E55 brakes just bolt right on the C36 no issues at all.
thank you.

 

[anderzen]

later model C36's can use the w210 setups or possibly the ones that didn't have this special brake package my car had.

I would recommend it IF you have most of the parts needed lying around like I did or can find them for cheap (you usually can find them for cheap new and used parts). Otherwise probably better off just upgrading hardware for stock brakes or just replacing OEM.

 

[yao500e]

later model C36's can use the w210 setups or possibly the ones that didn't have this special brake package my car had.

I would recommend it IF you have most of the parts needed lying around like I did or can find them for cheap (you usually can find them for cheap new and used parts). Otherwise probably better off just upgrading hardware for stock brakes or just replacing OEM.

good advice. it seems for 1995 model year C36 stock rotors is the way to go. unfortunately.

 

[yao500e]

Hello All,

I have an early 05/95 C36 that has the 320mm directional front rotors and AMG engraved logo calipers. Long story short, I am just putting this out as a feeler for anyone who may have knowledge of the situation I am in.

I know the factory part number for stock rotors is:
HWA 202-421-01-12 (left)
HWA 202-421-02-12 (right)

Brake pads also btw (005 420 0220 41)

Luckily they are in fact still available, left being special order from Germany, right 1 in the US.

My question being the guy always searching for highest quality and most cost efficient routes (and also just genuinely curious) in this game of love with these machines...
Does anyone here know of an alternative? From Research it shows the R129 600SL rotors are very close and may be compatible based off dimensions, some also say they require a spacer behind the rotor to get to correct offset... and others say ditch the whole thing and throw on my stock C55 4 pot setup I have sitting in my garage!

Putting this out as a feeler of information out there others may know...

Thx,
ANDERZÉN

Hello Anderzen do you by chance know the measurement specs of the stock 320mm year 1995 C36 rotors?

I might have found a custom 2 piece brake rotor shop that could make the rotor to spec.

I'm looking online and can't find the specs.

thanks

 

[anderzen]

I have a photo somewhere I believe, I'll try to find and post once I do

 

[gsxr]

I found a Brembo diagram of the 1996-up rotor dimensions (link), but not the 1995.

 

[anderzen]

same... for those later ones the easy go to is w203 C320 sport Rotors, almost exactly same spec... Mercedes Disc Brake Rotor – Front (330mm) 2034211312 Brembo Brembo 09.A448.21

However for the weird early 320mm like I have, don't think offset is correct but it's been too long since I went through this whole debacle for me to remember those specs lol... I might find myself re-watching my own videos in hopes I spoke about the info or popped a pic up

 

[yao500e]

I found a Brembo diagram of the 1996-up rotor dimensions (link), but not the 1995.

View attachment 187231

Thanks for this. GSXR. Do you by chance know where to get the measurements and specs dimensions of the rotors?

 

[yao500e]

same... for those later ones the easy go to is w203 C320 sport Rotors, almost exactly same spec... Mercedes Disc Brake Rotor – Front (330mm) 2034211312 Brembo Brembo 09.A448.21

However for the weird early 320mm like I have, don't think offset is correct but it's been too long since I went through this whole debacle for me to remember those specs lol... I might find myself re-watching my own videos in hopes I spoke about the info or popped a pic up

yes. thanks for posting. it seems w203 C320 sport 330mm fits. I wonder if the offset is the same the as the 320mm then. wish we can find the measuresment specs for both rotors.

 

[anderzen]

Well. I have a new pair sitting in the garage, I’ll try to grab some basic measurements, won’t be brembo accurate but will put us in the ball park.

 

[yao500e]

That would be amaing sir! thank you for that.

In this pic, here are the measurements and dimensions of the 330mm rotors from w203 C320 sport.

Well. I have a new pair sitting in the garage, I’ll try to grab some basic measurements, won’t be brembo accurate but will put us in the ball park

 

[gsxr]

yes. thanks for posting. it seems w203 C320 sport 330mm fits. I wonder if the offset is the same the as the 320mm then. wish we can find the measuresment specs for both rotors.

Using a 330mm rotor with a caliper designed for 320mm may not work, even if the thickness and offset are correct. Even if it "fits", the pads will not use the full friction surface, and could cause other problems...