A/C Sealant Availability

[emerydc8]

Does anyone know how to obtain Cryoseal or Cliplight for DiY use? It seems that Cryoseal will only sell directly to a shop and I can't seem to find a distributor or sales rep from Cliplight's web page. I don't need it now, but from what I've read here, these two products are proven effective and it would be nice to have around in the future. Thanks.

 

[gsxr]

IIRC, I had the same issue with Cryoseal, they won't sell to us clueless end-users.

And, I had trouble sourcing the top-of-the-line product from Cliplight, Super Seal Total Auto, p/n 976KIT. Most places wanted a small fortune for a single can with shipping and/or hazmat fees. A couple years ago I bought several cans from the place linked below, with shipping it was the lowest price I could find at the time. The new name is Super Seal Platinum, in a black can, with the same part number. I've only received the older white-can product though:

Cliplight 976KIT Super Seal Total Auto Kit | American Parts Equipment Supply Order Online

Cliplight 976KIT Super Seal Total Auto Kit

www.goapesonline.com

Also, I'm seeing multiple vendors showing 976KIT as "Product Discontinued" so I'm not sure if it's still available? You might want to contact a vendor first before ordering. The second-best option is Super Seal Premium, p/n 946KIT, which appears to be available from multiple sources including eBay. The difference is the Platinum/976KIT has a drying agent to help if any moisture is in the system, while Premium/946KIT does not have this bonus ingredient.

Additional photos here, including the complete instructions:
http://www.w124performance.com/images/tools/chemicals/Cliplight_976KIT/

Cliplight website:

Super Seal Platinum™

Permanently seals & prevents leaks in mobile A/C systems, Eliminates moisture & prevents acid formation, UV dye highlights larger leaks.

www.cliplight.com

 

[LWB250]

I've used the ClipLight Super Seal Premium a number of times, always coupled with a new receiver dryer since you have to evacuate the system anyway. I never quite understood the reason behind the Premium stuff since the system had to be opened anyway, unless people wanted to do it and forego replacing the receiver/dryer, which I think would be a silly thing to do. That and I don't like putting dyes in my system unless they're necessary. I also pull down my systems for at least an hour if not longer to evaporate any and all moisture out of the system.

Amazon seems to have the best price most of the time, but I haven't bought any recently, so that may not be the case.

I will also say that I've called ClipLight in the past and spoken to very knowledgeable people there who clearly knew the product and it's application and were more than happy to answer my questions. I would encourage you to reach out to them and see how they respond. My interactions, while some time ago (2-3 years) were positive in this regard.

Dan

 

[gsxr]

I think the idea with Platinum that includes drying agent, is for system that have not yet been opened... just low on charge, that have been topped off and cooling correctly, but leaking.

At the moment I can't find either of these automotive sealants on Amazon, only their home/stationary unit sealants.

 

[LWB250]

I think the idea with Platinum that includes drying agent, is for system that have not yet been opened... just low on charge, that have been topped off and cooling correctly, but leaking.

At the moment I can't find either of these automotive sealants on Amazon, only their home/stationary unit sealants.

This is weird. I found the Premium on eBay, of all places, but not a thing on the Island of Large Wimmen. ClipLight appears to have completely redesigned their web site as well, with no links to places to buy, only a list of their sales reps.

I'm going to drop them a note and ask where I'm supposed to buy the stuff now.

Dan

 

[emerydc8]

Thanks guys. So the one can (1.5 oz) is all that's required and then the rest would be regular R134a?

 

[alabbasi]

I'm not familiar with this brand but I really dislike any kind of sealent in an AC system. It could really screw things up. A friend if mine who worked at a Ford dealership said that it damaged their equipment from recovering systems that had it.

 

[LWB250]

Thanks guys. So the one can (1.5 oz) is all that's required and then the rest would be regular R134a?

Correct.

Just got an email from the regional sales manager from ClipLight and he informed me that they've been out of the 946KIT which I've used in the past, so it hasn't been available on Amazon. He said it should be back next week.

In a nutshell, here's how it works:

You evacuate the system and pull a vacuum. If the system leaks down to less than 25" of Hg in five minutes or less, you can't use the product. If it doesn't leak down based on the prior requirements, you can use it and it should contain the leak.

If the system has been opened or leaked down for more than a few hours, I replace the receiver/dryer.

Pull a vacuum for several hours to boil out any moisture.

There is a process by which the kit instructions have you evacuate the filler line and fitting - it's outlined in the instructions. Once this is done with a vacuum on the system, you empty the can of sealer into the system, then charge it with refrigerant. You need to run the system for 20-30 minutes after charging to circulate the sealer.

I'm not keen about sealers, additives, etc., however, this stuff has extended the life of several marginal AC systems that were going to need major (evaporator) repairs. This was in W140 and W124 systems that are known to develop leaks related to dissimilar metals used in evaporator fittings. One of them lasted for over two years after sealing, the other one over a year after which the car was sold, so it could potentially still be sealed. Also, this was in Florida, so the systems were being used the majority of the time the cars were in use.

Just an observation relative to system leaks/leaking down over time:

The hoses used in these systems, if original, will allow leakage at the molecular level over time. If possible, replacing hoses with barrier style material will eliminate this issue. If you're topping off your AC annually and it's otherwise functional, this is probably why. Any industrial hose supplier can rebuild your existing hoses with barrier type material for a reasonable amount.

Dan

 

[gsxr]

There is a process by which the kit instructions have you evacuate the filler line and fitting - it's outlined in the instructions. Once this is done with a vacuum on the system, you empty the can of sealer into the system, then charge it with refrigerant. You need to run the system for 20-30 minutes after charging to circulate the sealer.

Dan, the 976KIT instructions (click here for PDF) state to fully charge the system first (step 9), THEN add Cliplight to the fully charged system (steps 10-13).

Do you do it the other way around?

 

[LWB250]

Dan, the 976KIT instructions (click here for PDF) state to fully charge the system first (step 9), THEN add Cliplight to the fully charged system (steps 10-13).

Do you do it the other way around?

Yeah, that's right. A memory is a terrible thing to waste. It was the charging the tap hose part that threw me off.

Always read the instruction before starting the task....

-D

 

[gsxr]

The part about evacuating the charge hose always confused me. I assume there are valves in the hose ends which keep the vacuum intact while it's disconnected (step 8). And that you need to still have the vacuum pump connected via manifold gauge set to the high-side port, to allow vacuuming the low-side port & can hose... this was not clear in their instructions.

 

[LWB250]

Sorry for any confusion on my part. I’m dealing with failed AC of the house kind today, and it’s 95F with a heat index of around 100F. Thank goodness for the pool!

Dan

 

[gsxr]

No worries, Dan! It's actually Cliplight's instructions that are a little confusing, related to vacuuming the can hose. And they don't say anything about using it without vacuuming the hose first. Hope you can get that house AC cranking - what happened?

 

[emerydc8]

I ordered two cans of the 946KIT from Ebay. Thanks all.

 

[LWB250]

No worries, Dan! It's actually Cliplight's instructions that are a little confusing, related to vacuuming the can hose. And they don't say anything about using it without vacuuming the hose first. Hope you can get that house AC cranking - what happened?

Motor starting capacitor on the compressor puked. I should have had one on the shelf, but just forgot to provision for it with all the flurry related to moving in. Tech said the operating range of the compressor was from 0-20 amps and it's running at about 15A, so it's on the way out. Contractor grade system put in the house by the PO (widow who did some things on the cheap if they weren't visible) about 10 years ago we were planning to replace anyway. Just changing to a new system will gain some serious energy savings - we found this out at our last house and ended up knocking our summer electric bills down nearly 25% as a result with a modern system.

Dan starting to chill ❄

 

[emerydc8]

Four weeks later, I finally received the two cans of Super Seal. Attached are the instructions for the 946 kit. They look the same as the 976 kit Dave posted above. I don't know if I will ever need it, but at least I have it if I do. Dave is right -- the instructions are a bit confusing.

 

[gsxr]

Thanks for posting, Jon! That instruction sheet is the first formal mention I've seen about using dry nitrogen to pressure-test a system. My BIL (a commercial/industrial HVAC tech) was doing this 25 years ago, but I've never seen it mentioned anywhere else until now.

 

[LWB250]

Thanks for posting, Jon! That instruction sheet is the first formal mention I've seen about using dry nitrogen to pressure-test a system. My BIL (a commercial/industrial HVAC tech) was doing this 25 years ago, but I've never seen it mentioned anywhere else until now.

That's been in the instructions for some time. I found it interesting as I've known about this approach for some years, learned it from an MB buddy who worked for an industrial gas supplier (meaning he had a big tank of nitrogen in his garage, of course.)

Good to know the stuff is available again.

Dan

 

[gsxr]

Dan, it wasn't in the 976KIT instructions (I posted a scan in PDF format). Different format between what Jon received, and what I received. I suspect it's not more widely discussed because owning a nitrogen tank and regulator isn't in the realm of most DIY'ers, but shops should have this... although I bet most do not.

And yes, good to know there's some supply available of the Cliplight!

 

[gsxr]

Four weeks later, I finally received the two cans of Super Seal. Attached are the instructions for the 946 kit. They look the same as the 976 kit Dave posted above. I don't know if I will ever need it, but at least I have it if I do. Dave is right -- the instructions are a bit confusing.

@emerydc8 - did you ever use the SuperSeal? If so, did it work as advertised?

 

[emerydc8]

Hi Dave,
I’ve been lucky enough not to need it. It’s still collecting dust on the shelf although I wonder if it’s still good after four years. If I recall I had originally bought it after reading a how-to on evaporator replacement and how much time that job took, but maybe corrosion of the line where it connects to the evaporator doesn’t occur in dry climates like Arizona.

 

[rayhennig]

Does the sealant work well? I fear, now that the 300CE is 34 years old, both the heat exchanger and the evaperator may cough off one day.

I do have NOS replacements for both.

My son's 190D 2.5 had a leaking heat exchanger and he attacked it himself. Still working a few years later.



So there may be hope for mine!

RayH

 

[LWB250]

"Well" is a relative term. I've used ClipLight Super Seal in a number of cars over the years, mainly as a last ditch effort to avoid evaporator replacement. Two of these were W124s, one was a W140. All were in service in Florida, so AC was used frequently, if not all the time.

The W140 had a leak that was bad enough the system would leak down in leass than half an hour. I think ClipLight's limit is if the system leaks down in five minutes or less that the leak is big enough it can't seal it. It was still working great two years later when the car was in an accident and totaled.

One W124 (E300D) was pretty bad, as bad as the W140 if not worse, and it lasted about a year before it started leaking again. It got sold and was recently totaled in a T-bone crash. I'm pleased to say the driver walked away unharmed.

The last W124 worked for several years, two at least, before it was sold. I don't know if it is still working or not.

All in all, the stuff does the job, but if the leak is severe or significant it won't help. If you follow the instructions it's an easy job. I have been told that AC shops won't work on systems that have had sealer used in them, but I think that's bunk. If it were me I just wouldn't tell them. That, and companies like ClipLight wouldn't be selling the stuff if it was destructive. That said, if I was doing an evaporator replacement, which thankfully I've never done, I would be changing most everything out anyway, so who cares?

I would add that if you go so far as to replacing the evaporator or condenser. take the time to replace the hoses, too. These hoses are original, and as a result of age and wear, leak refrigerant at the molecular level. New hose material has a barrier to prevent this, and as a result the system will retain it's integrity for far longer. A lot of our cars that need their AC "topped off" annual aren't leaking such as a fault, the refrigerant is leaking through the material of the hoses over time.

Dan

 

[rayhennig]

take the time to replace the hoses, too.

I recall that the 190's hoses were replaced. The heat exchanger was NLA - used Nissens. But I think he got the hoses from his local MB.

R

 

[LWB250]

I have always used a commercial hydraulic hose company to make new ones, which is usually a lot less expensive. That way I'm sure I'm getting the most modern barrier-style hoses. Hard to say what the OE replacements are made of or how long they've been on the shelf.

Dan

 

[ChrisH]

Reading this thread gives me hope of restoring my air conditioner. I bought my E420 fifteen years ago very cheap because it needed an evaporator replacement. Living in Oregon at elevation I have not really missed the air conditioner. What the heck it’s certainly worth a try. I will get a new dryer and perhaps hoses. Maybe I would install the dryer have it recharged and use the sealant, if and away in no time I probably wouldn’t go through the expensive doing of the hoses and just continue to enjoy it as I have.

 

[gsxr]

Reading this thread gives me hope of restoring my air conditioner. I bought my E420 fifteen years ago very cheap because it needed an evaporator replacement. Living in Oregon at elevation I have not really missed the air conditioner. What the heck it’s certainly worth a try. I will get a new dryer and perhaps hoses. Maybe I would install the dryer have it recharged and use the sealant, if and away in no time I probably wouldn’t go through the expensive doing of the hoses and just continue to enjoy it as I have.

@ChrisH - the receiver/dryer for V8 models wents NLA about 4 years ago. The aftermarket replacements are all for 6-cyl vehicles, and do not fit correctly in the 034/036 without modification. Details are in this thread. Hoses rarely need replacement.

Are you certain the car really needs an evaporator? Did you ever try charging the system and see how long a charge will last?

 

[LWB250]

This is the key. You need to establish if, in fact, you have a leak. If the system is empty, connect it to a vacuum pump, see what kind of vacuum you can pull and close off the manifold valves and let it sit. Check it every 15 minutes or so to see if it's leaking down. If it takes more than 30 minutes to show any appreciable leakage, you're in good shape. You could go ahead and use some ClipLight on it to get it good and tight, but I wouldn't until it really needed it.

Also, you mention being "at altitude". If you're much above sea level like me (7,000') you'll need to adjust slightly for the maximum vacuum you can pull. Higher altitude, lower vacuum. At my FL house I could get near 30" of vacuum. In Flagstaff at 7,000 feet I get more like 27" max.

Dan

 

[ChrisH]

@ChrisH - the receiver/dryer for V8 models wents NLA about 4 years ago. The aftermarket replacements are all for 6-cyl vehicles, and do not fit correctly in the 034/036 without modification. Details are in this thread. Hoses rarely need replacement.

Are you certain the car really needs an evaporator? Did you ever try charging the system and see how long a charge will last?

Lasted about a week after recharge, so I thought the evaporator was the problem, as purported at the time.
My son who was working as a mechanic at the local MB dealer suggested I roll my window down at the appropriate times!

 

[LWB250]

I would get a vacuum pump and a manifold gauge set on it and see how long it holds a vacuum. If it lasted a week at full charge there's likely a leak, but it can't be too big or it would have leaked down a lot sooner.

Dan

 

[ChrisH]

This is the key. You need to establish if, in fact, you have a leak. If the system is empty, connect it to a vacuum pump, see what kind of vacuum you can pull and close off the manifold valves and let it sit. Check it every 15 minutes or so to see if it's leaking down. If it takes more than 30 minutes to show any appreciable leakage, you're in good shape. You could go ahead and use some ClipLight on it to get it good and tight, but I wouldn't until it really needed it.

Also, you mention being "at altitude". If you're much above sea level like me (7,000') you'll need to adjust slightly for the maximum vacuum you can pull. Higher altitude, lower vacuum. At my FL house I could get near 30" of vacuum. In Flagstaff at 7,000 feet I get more like 27" max.

Dan

I’m at 1300 feet and high on life