I'm not familiar with the Pentosin, but a 30k interval is plenty safe even if it's a Group III. If you use a known-good Group IV/V fluid like Red Line D4, that is probably fine to 50-60k with normal service. Possibly longer. Normally I'd say just change it more often, but 2001 vintage most likely does not have a converter drain plug, which makes the change / flush procedure a RPITA.
The rebuilder should specify the first change interval for warranty, but it's usually around 1k-3k miles. Doesn't hurt to do it early, or do a couple of short-interval changes, before switching to the normal 30k interval.
Yep, that is the procedure on the 722.9 (seven-speed) tranny. And yes, they did bring back the converter drain on the 722.9, likely due to never-ending complaints about it being deleted from 1998 through the early/mid 2000's on the 5-speed boxes. But in retaliation, the engineers decided to make the fluid change miserable in a different way. :x
The 722.3 used in the W124 was 30kmi for normal service, and I think 15k with severe service (this assumed dino ATF).
Nope. Nothing. If it was gonna break I'd of broken it.
Any transmission out of car scenario is a good excuse for a rebuild if anything is dodgy and you plan to depend on the car for reliable primary transportation. Last I checked a full on rebuild was about 1700 and 300 to r and r. Sun Valley is local to me so thats who I use. One less thing to think about. No mucking around with 500 "service" BS. Make sure it shifts good and hard. And then change the fluid and filter evry 20 or 30k. Change the mount, center bearing and flex discs while its on the hoist.
Low fluid should not cause a vibration. The issues are probably unrelated. A long delay engaging reverse (how long? 1-2 seconds, or 4-5 seconds?) is not good and may indicate a rebuild is in your future.
It should be cherry red. When was the fluid/filter last changed? Factory interval is 30kmi for normal service, 15kmi for severe service. Remember the level must be checked on a level surface, with the engine idling in Park, with the trans FULLY hot. That means 20+ minutes driving at freeway speeds, not 20 minutes puttering around town. In cold winter temps, it might take even longer.
$500 is steep! It's about 2 hours labor and maybe $75 in fluid / filter / gasket. You could do it yourself, although it isn't fun if you don't have access to a lift. There's a DIY thread on the forum with step-by-step instructions. Make sure the local shop transmission "service" includes DRAINING THE TORQUE CONVERTER. The dealer will do this. If it's an MB specialist shop, they should do this. Anywhere else, they probably won't... if so, don't go there. There's no need for a "flush machine", those are used for vehicles that do not have a converter drain plug. Don't let them convince you the flush is "better" and therefore justifies the $500 cost. It's easier for them (more profit), not better for the transmission.
What part number are you looking for on the shift mechanism? Don't add any conditioning products, Lucas or otherwise... likely a waste of money. Just add more ATF if needed, remember the difference between MIN and MAX on the dipstick is less than half a quart, so add a little at a time once you get near the MIN mark.
Basically what gsxr mentioned in his post, these extended delays from the time one shift the lever into Reverse, to the time it takes for Reverse to actually engage. Those longer times are the indicator or the "soon to be a need" for the rebuild...
Regards,
@kiev Exactly what @gsxr said. I figured since I'm going to be driving the hell out this car (and I do), every little bit of extra protection - is welcomed....High Temp is a thicker version of D4, generally intended for towing or racing, and probably isn't any benefit for street use - but it doesn't hurt anything either.
Have you tried turning up the modulator 1/2 to 1 full turn (firmer / clockwise)? That may help.
Thanks Dave, I'll give it a try.Have you tried turning up the modulator 1/2 to 1 full turn (firmer / clockwise)? That may help.
I looked carefully at D4 and, unlike with their engine oils, nowhere does RL mention group IV/V as the formula. With viscosity index of 188, I see some other brands out there with higher VI that are definitely not group IV/V, such as, for example, MAG1. Is D4 group IV/V?
Oh, I liked it fine, and it did help my dying transmission for some time:
And I would gladly use it again without any reservations if a "need to save a sluggish/dying tranny" would arise, but since I've rebuild my 722.3, Redline High Temp been working well for me, as it has for many others...It even fixes UN-healthy transmissions too...done it countless times
Really can't even count how many .3's/4's and 5's are running around on F from my shop.
Jono's experience prompted me to try it as well. However, none of my transmissions are tired enough to have noticeable slippage. I saw zero difference in shift firmness/feel with Type F in my high-mile E420 (240kmi, original trans). I also switched to Red Line Racing (High Temp Type F) for the 600E and again, no difference. Go figure.
Nope, not yet. But I've gone soft over the years and would be less opposed to the idea. I still believe it's likely that switching from original thicker fluid (up to 236.10, Dex-II, Dex-III) to any thinner fluid (236.12, 236.14, Dex-VI) will need to have the vacuum modulator adjusted firmer.
I have NO idea what the base stock is for any Red Line ATF. But I am curious. Also, they appear to have changed some of their formulas in the past 10 years. The High Temp received a massive increase in VI while the others did not. Hmmm:
| VI, 2010 | VI, 2021 | |
| D4 | 198 | 188 |
| D6 | 166 | 163 |
| High Temp | 172 | 220 |
| Racing | 177 | 177 |
Their dual clutch transmission fluid is stated as PAO+esters and it's the most expensive: $20/quart. CVT is stated as PAO only and is $14/quart. No mention of PAO or esters for other ATFs. It could be that D4 at $12.50/quart is group III only?
I sure hope not! But we'd need to have Red Line tech support confirm...Their dual clutch transmission fluid is stated as PAO+esters and it's the most expensive: $20/quart. CVT is stated as PAO only and is $14/quart. No mention of PAO or esters for other ATFs. It could be that D4 at $12.50/quart is group III only?
I found info/tests for D6 on oilclub.ru. (D6 is a thinner D4?) Red Line also claims it "meets" 236.12 spec, so technically, we can use it in 722.3... Anyways, Russians definitively claim based on a performed fourier-transform spectrometry it's PAO base + esters. Therefore, D4 should be as wellI sure hope not! But we'd need to have Red Line tech support confirm...
I will have to service my father's 722.9 soon, can your recommend a PDF or some online step by step tutorial for these units (2008 E350)?
Thanks for the info Dave, much appreciated! Now off to watch a short video, and I will certainly feel like some kinda "certified" to do the job well! Definitely makes sense on this fluid pump, and new bolts are needed too! Will do soon!Somehow it seems fitting that my 30,000th (!!!) post on the forum is in an oil thread. OK, ok, transmission oil, but close enough.
Anyway - the 722.9 process should be straightforward since it should have a converter drain plug. The WIS procedure is at this link.
The few things to note are:
1) You need a fluid pump to refill. I bought the Extoil unit here and have been happy with it for the couple of times I've used it.2) The WIS document implies you pump the entire amount of fluid back in before starting the engine, which sounded like a recipe for disaster. Klink confirmed that this isn't a good idea, pump 5-6 quarts in, start the engine (same as a 722.3), cycle through gear positions, then pump in the rest. Spec varies with different 722.9 versions so check what is needed your specific year/model.3) The fill process (PDF here) requires monitoring fluid temp, preferably with SDS live data, or with IR thermometer if necessary. Additional info is in this document, print pages 34/35 (PDF page 35/36).
As described in the docs above, you will need to purposely overfill by ~0.5L. It will help if you collect the drained fluid and measure it, then refill with that amount plus 0.5 L or QT. I weigh the drain receptacle empty, then weigh again full, to calculate the fluid volume based on weight.
View attachment 134383
