Do All W124036 Have Check Engine Lights?

[owenj99]

Hi guys,

I have been searching the forum for threads about this topic to no avail. I was recently looking into diagnostics for my 1992 500E (production date 10/91) and found an original Mercedes W124 034/036 service manual, which stated that all 1992 California spec 400E's and ALL 1992 500E's came equipped with a check engine light liked to diagnostics module N59. Is this true? My 1992 500E has no check engine light, and during the recent cluster removal, for bulb and odometer gear replacement, I found that it did not any wiring for light position 1 (CEL light plug) and actually had the port covered with a fabric tape that appeared to me to look like 28 year old OE Benz tape... The car does not have an impulse counter near the module box under the hood and has 3 plugs that appear to be for computer reading. The main one connected to the box that houses the modules, another one near by on the inner firewall close to the passenger side of the engine, but still inside the area containing the module box, and the last one on the drivers side near the ABS pump and ignition wiring (says Siemens 8 zyl and has a few large gauge wires connected to it) above the drivers front wheel well. I was wondering if maybe this car could have some wrong wiring replaced on it, or maybe had a cluster replaced but one out of a non 500 car?

If anyone has any insight on this topic, or can point me in the direction of a thread that applies to that, it would be great.

Thanks!

 

[Melville]

I believe only US and Canadian cars had a CEL in the cluster. I used to have a Japan market 1992 cabrio and it had an EXH TEMP light. Is your car originally a US or Canadian car?

 

[gerryvz]

There were some very early 1991/1992 US cars that did not have CELs from the factory. But most did. So it is likely correct and did not come from the factory that way. We have had a few members over the years whose cars did not have the CEL.

Its not a big deal not to have the blink code impulse counter (which was for the CEL only anyway). All the car’s systems are read through the 38-pin connector on the CAN box anyway.

The round port on the driver’s side inner fender was mainly used on the earlier cars (up to end of model year 1992, IIRC) and is a diagnostic port of really zero value for an E500E. It’s better for cars using CIS-E fuel injection, not LH. So it can and should be ignored (they were later removed, as mentioned).

 

[gsxr]

Early USA-spec 1992 500E's do not have a CEL. I don't know the break point when they started to get CEL's. [Update: It appears this occurred during the middle of 1992 USA model year production.]

I believe all 49-state 1992 400E's do not have CEL's. I'm not sure when CA-spec 1992 400E's received the CEL, or if none had it. [Update: There's a mix of both through 1992-1993 model year 400E's, but all USA-spec 1994-95 E420's have the CEL.]

@owenj99, your car is perfectly normal, as delivered from the factory. My 1992 500E is identical.

The car does not have an impulse counter near the module box under the hood and has 3 plugs that appear to be for computer reading:

1. The main one connected to the box that houses the modules,
2. Another one near by on the inner firewall close to the passenger side of the engine, but still inside the area containing the module box
3. And the last one on the drivers side

Can you post a photo showing #1 and #2? There should only be one diagnostic port on the passenger side, for cars without a CEL. I think what you describe as #2 is the large round "pancake" connector for the ETA, not a diagnostic port.

 

[owenj99]

Hi Guys, thanks for all the responses. I guess the 1992 MB Service manual is incorrect then. The car is a US spec. car, says it conforms to all US regulations in the drivers door pillar.

Dave, I have attached a few photos of all three of the ports that I had mentioned. I just assumed that #2 was likely a port based off of shape and size, as well as proximity to the CAN box.

P.s. excuse the mess... I haven't detailed the engine bay yet as I am still working on a few things under there, and I am also in the middle of changing the blower motor, regulator, and the wiper seals when I broke a clip, so the whole project got put on hold until friday when parts should arrive...

 

[gsxr]

You are correct, the 1992 manual has an error. Most likely the cars were all *suppsosed* to have the CEL (and Diagnostic Module needed to control the CEL), but for unknown reasons, that didn't happen. The late-production 1992 500E that I sold a few years ago did have the CEL, manufactured in 06/1992, so it was definitely phased into production before the end of 1992 USA model year.

It's possible the change was accompanied by a switch from the smaller, black emissions decal above the passenger headlight, to the larger/yellow decal. My early 92 without CEL has the black decal, the late 92 with CEL has the yellow decal.

And yes, the other item in your photo bolted to the firewall is the ETA connector, not a diagnostic port. If you ever need to disconnect it, press the small tab with a screwdriver. It's spring-loaded and the tab will release it. Prying or twisting will break it.

 

[owenj99]

All makes sense. What is the best way to access the modules then to check for any codes?

 

[gsxr]

All makes sense. What is the best way to access the modules then to check for any codes?

Easiest method is a hand-held blink code reader, to check / clear codes. For serious diagnostics, a digital scanner (SDS, Star Diagnostics) is fantastic but obviously will cost more. Everything you need to know is in the "De-Coding" sub-forum, click below...

De-Coding

Information pertaining to diagnostic codes, how to obtain and dechiper them, and how to remedy them.

www.500eboard.co

 

[owenj99]

Awesome! Thanks again for the help!

 

[gerryvz]

It's possible the change was accompanied by a switch from the smaller, black emissions decal above the passenger headlight, to the larger/yellow decal. My early 92 without CEL has the black decal, the late 92 with CEL has the yellow decal.

Not sure this is correct. My 1989 560SEC has a black sticker and yet, has a CEL. I think the black sticker was just a visual/semantics change, and I think it happened LATER in the 1992 model year than the addition of the CEL was. If 1992 production for the US started in the August 1991 time frame, I think there were CELs added to the cars by January 1992 production. I'll have to look in my database and see if we have any examples and photos of early 1992 production cars that show the CEL. Let me do some work on that later today....

All 500Es/E500s imported into the US were California-compliant (50-state) cars, because MB knew that A LOT of the imports would be sold there, and only wanted to get one type tested and rated by the Feds (less hassle and expense) given the low import numbers.

 

[gsxr]

I should clarify - I was referring to W124 only, with the CEL and decals. I'm not sure if other chassis are the same. And you are right, the change may have not happened at the same time... the CEL may have showed up before or after the decal change, but both changes did happen in late 1991 / early 1992 calendar year (during 1992 model year production).

 

[JAB12]

@gsxr, @gerryvz: You two should write a book on E500E W124.036 ownership. I'm sure we could find you some publishing sponsors...
Thanks for all you know and do in this forum. What wealth!

 

[gerryvz]

Not sure this is correct. My 1989 560SEC has a black sticker and yet, has a CEL. I think the black sticker was just a visual/semantics change, and I think it happened LATER in the 1992 model year than the addition of the CEL was. If 1992 production for the US started in the August 1991 time frame, I think there were CELs added to the cars by January 1992 production. I'll have to look in my database and see if we have any examples and photos of early 1992 production cars that show the CEL. Let me do some work on that later today....

All 500Es/E500s imported into the US were California-compliant (50-state) cars, because MB knew that A LOT of the imports would be sold there, and only wanted to get one type tested and rated by the Feds (less hassle and expense) given the low import numbers.

I wanted to follow up on these statements I made, with some research. It's early in the morning, and I'm on my third cup of coffee, so I was feeling motivated.

One conclusion I can make from my research, to confirm the @gsxr's hypothesis, is that it is safe to say that all cars with BLACK emissions stickers on the upper radiator support, DO NOT have CELs. All cars with YELLOW emissions stickers on the upper radiator support, DO have a CEL.

Now ... delving into production-dated cars in my private database......which also have threads here on the forum.....

Here is a car that is September, 1991 production, which DOES NOT have a CEL.
VIN = WDBEA36E0NB614340

FOR SALE - 1992 500E, Silver/Gray, 67kmi, $45k (Norfolk, VA) | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

ADMIN UPDATE: For sale (by new owner?) on MBCA, see post #12 for details. Thread title updated with price. No Affilition No Reserve Ebay auction ended July 19, 2019 - SOLD FOR $23k 1992 Mercedes-Benz 500-Series | eBay Mercedes-Benz VIN Decoder AutoCheck report attached below photos. VIN...

www.500eboard.co

==================================================================================================

Here is a car that is October, 1991 production, which DOES NOT have a CEL.
VIN = WDBEA36EXNB633316

SOLD - SOLD: 1992 500E, Pearl Black/Black, 83kmi, $26K (Bellevue, WA) | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

ADMIN UPDATE 1: Price reduced from $30k to $26k, May 2014. Thread title updated. See post #31 below for details. ADMIN UPDATE 2: The car is for sale again by the new owner as of August 2015, details at this link. No affiliation. AutoCheck report attached below. VIN: WDBEA36EXNB633316...

www.500eboard.co

Note BLACK emissions sticker under-hood.

==================================================================================================


Here is a car that is November, 1991 production, which DOES NOT have a CEL.
VIN = WDBEA36E3NB658509

FOR SALE - FS: 1992 500E, Smoke Silver/Cream/Brazil, 244kmi, $15k (Costa Mesa, CA) | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

ADMIN UPDATE: For sale by new owner / dealer with 58kmi added in 3 years, see post #5 for details. Thread title updated. VIN = WDBEA36E3NB658509 Mercedes Benz 500E - Handbuilt by Porsche Year: 1992 Make: Mercedes-Benz Model: 500-Class Mileage (numbers only please): 188000 Color: Silver/Grey...

www.500eboard.co

Note BLACK emissions sticker under-hood.

==================================================================================================

Here is a car that is November, 1991 production, which DOES NOT have a CEL.
VIN = WDBEA36E4NB661550

FOR SALE - FS: 1992 500E, Black/Gray, 105kmi, $11,900 (Carlstadt, NJ) | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

UPDATE JULY 2013: Car is for sale again by new owner 2 months after purchase. Details in post #17 and #22 below. Thread title updated with new location and price. No affiliation. AutoCheck report attached below photos. Headlight "doors" over the inner auxiliary high beams doesn't look quite...

www.500eboard.co

Note BLACK emissions sticker under-hood.

==================================================================================================

Here is a car that is November, 1991 production, which DOES NOT Have a CEL.
VIN = WDBEA36E8NB666430

FOR SALE - 1992 500E, Smoke Silver/Cream Beige, 170kmi, $18k (Jacksonville, FL) | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

No Affiliation VIN = WDBEA36E8NB666430 https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/mercedes-benz/500e/2444811.html https://www.lastvin.com/vin/BPr5q2vMQm1EXmxML 1992 Mercedes-Benz 500E Sedan Location: Jacksonville Beach, Florida, 32250 VIN #: WDBEA36E8NB666430 Mileage: 170,000...

www.500eboard.co

Note BLACK emissions sticker under-hood.

==================================================================================================


Here is a car that is November, 1991 production, which DOES have a CEL.
VIN = WDBEA36E7NB668993

FOR SALE - FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 237kmi, $7900 (Lombard, IL) | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

*** UPDATE *** Price reduced from $8900 to $7900 in March 2013, thread title updated. No affiliation. AutoCheck attached. Car lived in CA and TX, then went to auction and ended up in Illinois. Datacard says it's 199 Pearl Black but it looks 040 Black in the small fuzzy photos. Trunk badge is...

www.500eboard.co

Note YELLOW emissions sticker under-hood.

==================================================================================================

Here is a car that is December, 1991 production, which DOES NOT have a CEL.
VIN = WDBEA36EXNB6807031

SOLD - 1992 500E, Silver/Black, 127kmi, $35k (Black Rock, CT) | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

ADMIN EDIT 1: For sale by new dealer/flipper Nov-2019 at almost twice the price, with higher miles, see post #41 for details. Thread title updated. ADMIN EDIT 2: Price reduced Mar-2020 from $40k to $35k, see post #52. Thread title updated. VIN = WDBEA36EXNB680703 Datacard = Mercedes-Benz VIN...

www.500eboard.co

Note BLACK emissions sticker under-hood.

==================================================================================================


Here is a car that is December, 1991 production, which DOES have a CEL.
VIN = WDBEA36E0NB682816

FOR SALE - FS: 1992 500E, Smoke Silver/Cream, 99kmi, $11,900 (Dallas, TX) | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

ADMIN UPDATE: Car now sale in Dallas, Texas for $11,900 as of December-2012. See post #40 below for details. Thread title updated to reflect new location, mileage, & price. New AutoCheck report attached in post #41. No Affiliation: VIN = WDBEA36E0NB682816...

www.500eboard.co

Note YELLOW emissions sticker under-hood.

==================================================================================================


Here is a car that is December, 1991 production, which DOES Have a CEL.
VIN = WDBEA36E4NB685394

FOR SALE - FS: 1992 500E, Smoke Silver / Brown, 38kmi, $50k (MB Classic Center, SoCal) | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

No affiliation. This is one of the seven eight "One of One" cars in USA. It is the only 500E imported to USA with smoke silver paint and brown interior: http://specials.mercedes-benz-classic.com/en/vehicles/?cid=296 VIN = WDBEA36E4NB685394 AutoCheck report attached below photos. Car details...

www.500eboard.co

Note YELLOW emissions sticker under-hood.

==================================================================================================


Here is a car that is December, 1991 production, which DOES NOT have a CEL.
VIN = WDBEA36E7NB688161
Note BLACK emissions sticker under-hood.

SOLD - 1992 500E, Black/Gray, 44kmi, $75k (Miami, FL) | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

UPDATE 1: For sale by new owner (?) June 2018, see post #6 below. (Possibly sold for $35k.) UPDATE 2: For sale by new owner (?) September 2018 at $66k, see post #17 below. Thread title updated with new location. UPDATE 3: Price reduced to $60k, see post #20 below. Thread title updated. UPDATE...

www.500eboard.co

==================================================================================================


Here is a car that is January, 1992 production, which DOES NOT have a CEL.
VIN = WDBEA36E9NB695175

SOLD - 1992 500E, Pearl Black/Gray, 157kmi, $20k (Miami, FL) | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

UPDATE 1: Car is for sale again June-2016, thread title updated with new price. UPDATE 2: Car is for sale again March-2023, thread title updated with new price. See post #22 for details. SOLD, April 2023, see post 36. 1992 500E, Pearl Black/Gray, 153kmi, $13,500 (Miami, FL) No...

www.500eboard.co

==================================================================================================


Here is a car that is January, 1992 production, which DOES have a CEL.
VIN = WDBEA36E4NB706261

SOLD - SOLD: 1992 500E, Black/Cream, 175kmi, eBay (Tucson, AZ) | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

No affiliation. AutoCheck attached. VIN = WDBEA36E4NB706261 http://www.ebay.com/itm/291030001490

www.500eboard.co

==================================================================================================


Here is a car that is January, 1992 production, which DOES have a CEL.
VIN = WDBEA36E7NB706593
Note YELLOW emissions sticker under-hood.

FOR SALE - FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 136kmi, eBay (Scottsdale, AZ) | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

No affiliation. I wonder what "tune belts and hoses" are. Odd that the console buttons (HVAC, hazard switch) are so worn. Also strange that the ABS/ASR cover is missing. Wrong upper radiator hose too. But, that's all minor stuff... car looks pretty clean otherwise...

www.500eboard.co

==================================================================================================


Here is a car that is March, 1992 production, which DOES have a CEL.
VIN = WDBEA36E0NB753349

FOR SALE - FS: 1992 500E, Anthracite Gray/Gray, 105kmi, eBay (Brook Park, OH) | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

No affiliation. At first glance it looks really clean, on closer inspection of the photos I'm not sure. Wheels appear to have the finish damaged, wrong lug bolts, dirt or stains along carpet at front passenger footwell area, door pockets peeling (common problem), driver seat has visible dirt in...

www.500eboard.co

 

[gerryvz]

What I can conclude from the above photographic proof, is that certain 1992 model cars made in November and December of 1991, and January of 1992, DID NOT have CELs, and DID HAVE the corresponding black emissions decals underhood.

This was interspersed with production of cars WITH CELs and the yellow black emissions decals during these same months.

So, we can definitively conclude that the change-over from NO CEL to CEL happened during this three-month period at the end of calendar 1991.

I think it is also safe to say that all 1992 model 500Es produced from August through October 1991, would NOT have CELs and would have the black emissions stickers, and that all 1992 model 500Es produced from January/February 1992 through July 1992, WOULD have CELs and would have the yellow emissions stickers.

By the way, ONLY North American (US and Canada market) cars had CELs. Non-US cars did not have CELs. Japanese-market (JDM) cars had an "EXH TMP" light in the cluster.

 

[gsxr]

Excellent detective work, Gerry!

Note this applies specifically to the 500E. I have three 1992 400E's, production dates all between February and April 1992, all have no CEL and a black emissions decal. Would be interesting to see if any 1992 400E's have a CEL, and when/how this was phased into .034 production. I suspect it was either very late 1992 model year, or as of 1993 model year.

 

[owenj99]

Wow! Great look up, Gerry! Very interesting to see how much of a mixed bag it was for having a CEL during that three month period!

Dave, no CEL on my 1992 400E either. I'll have to check the production date on that one.

Happy Thanksgiving!