Drive (Axle) shafts for differential

[Taxi Driver]

As this has been quite a wide topic, hosted by Owner Doolar, I Think it would be time to lift this topic, Rear End
and what to use for performance enhancements.

I would like some input and knowlege about the differences. First what I found out about the drive shafts, there are
at least two shafts for the fitment on our 036 and 034, also there are shafts from the R129 variety wich apparently
will fit the V8 124's. Same length they are and does fit for Exchange/repair.

As you who have followed Doolar, know he broke/twisted one shaft on his E420! non ASR but only 280hp.
The shaft that Went "South" was the type with a 25mm dia. the 036 has the 32mm shaft and ASR, I do not
know what was available for the 500SL.

As i seems, the SL500 or SL600 later ones, I do not know when that happened, I have seen both SL60, SL600 and SL500
with the 25mm!!! shaft. I find that a bit strange, did MB trust the ASR or the ESP to do the "job" saving the shafts
and tyres?

I would also like some input on the differential, interchangability and strengthwise too.

I hope to have delivered soon '92 500SL drive shafts, I am about to rebuild the 400E rear end and by that
change to the 32mm shafts, I do not trust the OEM 25mm's to take the thrust from the W210 072 E50 motor.

I will be back when this and more knowlege comes up.

 

[gsxr]

Re: Drive shafts Differential

I can help a little bit. Or maybe just add to the confusion.

The early R129 500SL (129.066) used the same axles as the M104-powered 124's (.032/.052/.066/.092); 129-350-38-10 without ASR, and 129-350-41-10 with ASR. These use the corresponding differential flanges (129-350-08-45 without ASR, 129-350-09-45 with ASR). These are all different than the 124.034/.036 parts.

The later R129 SL500 (129.067) uses mostly all different part numbers, however it does share the same inner CV joint (126-350-01-13) as the .034/.036, except for very very late 124 builds (after C241287).

I'm still not sure about part interchanges (specifically, axle shafts) or diameters on the 129.067 and the 124. The axle shafts specified for the 129.067 chassis were also used on the 129.076 (M120 / V12).

Interestingly, as noted in the other thread, the W210 E50/E60 used smaller CV joints (same as the 210.072 with 4.2L engine) and smaller 25mm diameter axles. And, these are the standard axles used on the 6-cyl 124 chassis!

The W210 did not get upgraded rear axles until the entire rear differential was upgraded from the 210mm to either the 198mm or 215mm W220 diff (I forget which size those are). This happened at the 210 chassis A604351, or somewhere in 1998-99 model year production.

 

[samiam44]

Re: Drive shafts Differential

We've seen through the years a few failure- they are all northern cars where rust was a contributor to start fatigue cracking. Remember- those 7.4 V12 and 6.0 liter are pushing through the same ASR axles.
I think only a few racers have upgraded- I want to say our CV's are M27? I'm not sure it's stricktly shaft diameter- but what are they rated for?



Michael

 

[doolar]

Re: Drive shafts Differential

As this has been quite a wide topic, hosted by Owner Doolar, I Think it would be time to lift this topic, Rear End
and what to use for performance enhancements.

I would like some input and knowlege about the differences. First what I found out about the drive shafts, there are
at least two shafts for the fitment on our 036 and 034, also there are shafts from the R129 variety wich apparently
will fit the V8 124's. Same length they are and does fit for Exchange/repair.

As you who have followed Doolar, know he broke/twisted one shaft on his E420! non ASR but only 280hp.
The shaft that Went "South" was the type with a 25mm dia. the 036 has the 32mm shaft and ASR, I do not
know what was available for the 500SL.

As i seems, the SL500 or SL600 later ones, I do not know when that happened, I have seen both SL60, SL600 and SL500
with the 25mm!!! shaft. I find that a bit strange, did MB trust the ASR or the ESP to do the "job" saving the shafts
and tyres?

I would also like some input on the differential, interchangability and strengthwise too.

I hope to have delivered soon '92 500SL drive shafts, I am about to rebuild the 400E rear end and by that
change to the 32mm shafts, I do not trust the OEM 25mm's to take the thrust from the W210 072 E50 motor.

I will be back when this and more knowlege comes up.

I found the same what you wrote in bold Roger. Actually most of the V12 cars I found at the Swedish online breakers (www.bildelsbasen.se) had the 25mm ones. Among the other 1992 - 1994 axles it was a mixed bag, seemed completely random and not related to ASR/non-ASR.

The one I got is 99% (I checked VIN and datacard, plus got confirmation from the breaker yard) confirmed coming from a non-ASR car, and it was still a 32mm one. That shaft came from a 1992 or 1993 (don't remember right now, but can check) SL 500. It was a perfect fit to my .034. Hence I'll be sure to get one more of that shaft for the other side.

Where is the p/n stamped on the shaft? I want to look at my axle to get the part number, so I can confirm a known 32mm p/n that works on our cars, or I should say works 100% on a .034 non-ASR car, which brings me on to the next topic;

Do ASR/non-ASR matter, or are the axles the same, maybe apart from the thickness of the shaft? If so, there's a bunch of more replacement shaft for you .036 owners down the line, since all you have to do is to find a 32mm shaft from a SL 500, of which there should be plenty around at the breakers worldwide.

Or am I making it to easy (or complicated) here?

 

[doolar]

Re: Drive shafts Differential

We've seen through the years a few failure- they are all northern cars where rust was a contributor to start fatigue cracking. Remember- those 7.4 V12 and 6.0 liter are pushing through the same ASR axles.
I think only a few racers have upgraded- I want to say our CV's are M27? I'm not sure it's stricktly shaft diameter- but what are they rated for?



Michael

In Sweden it's not an uncommon failure, even on the four- and six-pot cars. The axles endured salt and winter over the years and miles, and the salt creeps in between the boot rim and the axle, and start the corrosion process.

 

[samiam44]

Re: Drive shafts Differential

"In Sweden it's not an uncommon failure, even on the four- and six-pot cars. The axles endured salt and winter over the years and miles, and the salt creeps in between the boot rim and the axle, and start the corrosion process"

You could prevent that on clean boots. On Aerospace, things that see a salt-water environment. Everything gets fillet and surface fay sealing. The most common sealant meeting MIL-PFR-8802 specification. A pint kit is $25 from a local suppliers(got to be a source on every airfield). Most places throw it away every year to keep the stock fresh for safety reasons. If you know a A & P, you can get some expired(but good material) for free.

We usually just mix up just enough with using tongue depressors to pull it out of the can. Think it's a 10:1 mix, but you want a dark grey color. Get some on (mask the axle for a clean line), pull the tape off and use your finger covered in liquid soap to smooth it out. Make sure the paint a rubber is clean first with Isoproyl Alcohol.
You want a nice fillet between the boot end and axle.

I'm in North Texas so we are pretty much rust-free unless it is a northern car junked here... Haven't seen an inrush of Houston hurricane cars yet either.

Be happy to add explanation or a picture if you need it.

 

[Taxi Driver]

About the ABS pickup ring (ASR) too, to move the pickup sensors to the outer axle joint, the ABS ring wich
is pressed onto the CVJ and by using the later Wheel Carriers w the magnetic pickup mounted in there.

The pickup ring does have 48 holes, the front hubs, this from the 400E does have 96 serrations for the pickup.

Does this mean the pickup ring inside the ASR diff also have the 96 as the front hub?

Last pict. '96/97 carrier w 300mm disc.

 

[gsxr]

About the ABS pickup ring (ASR) too, to move the pickup sensors to the outer axle joint, the ABS ring wich
is pressed onto the CVJ and by using the later Wheel Carriers w the magnetic pickup mounted in there.

The pickup ring does have 48 holes, the front hubs, this from the 400E does have 96 serrations for the pickup.

Does this mean the pickup ring inside the ASR diff also have the 96 as the front hub?

No, the diff pickup ring (part of the axle flanges / stub shaft) is not a fine-tooth like the front. It looks very similar to the pickup ring you show with 48 holes, however I don't know the exact count, as I don't have an ASR diff handy to take apart.

Anyone have an ASR diff from 124 floating around that could pop out the flanges and count the 'teeth'? If the count is the same, that would be awesome.

 

[Taxi Driver]

"If the count is the same, that would be awesome."
Yeah that would be the day.... I Think the time has come, to get rid of the ASR diff and the World of DIFFerent ones
will open up, how nice that would be for us who want to play around....

Should we assume the 036 front hub is the same as the 400 one, none ASR car???

 

[gsxr]

"If the count is the same, that would be awesome."
Yeah that would be the day.... I Think the time has come, to get rid of the ASR diff and the World of DIFFerent ones
will open up, how nice that would be for us who want to play around....

Should we assume the 036 front hub is the same as the 400 one, none ASR car???

Yes, the front hubs (129-330-04-25) are the same for all 124.034/.036 and .06x cabrio, and also R129 through 1995.

 

[Seangbadee]

Re: Drive shafts Differential

I can help a little bit. Or maybe just add to the confusion.

The early R129 500SL (129.066) used the same axles as the M104-powered 124's (.032/.052/.066/.092); 129-350-38-10 without ASR, and 129-350-41-10 with ASR. These use the corresponding differential flanges (129-350-08-45 without ASR, 129-350-09-45 with ASR). These are all different than the 124.034/.036 parts.

The later R129 SL500 (129.067) uses mostly all different part numbers, however it does share the same inner CV joint (126-350-01-13) as the .034/.036, except for very very late 124 builds (after C241287).

I'm still not sure about part interchanges (specifically, axle shafts) or diameters on the 129.067 and the 124. The axle shafts specified for the 129.067 chassis were also used on the 129.076 (M120 / V12).

Interestingly, as noted in the other thread, the W210 E50/E60 used smaller CV joints (same as the 210.072 with 4.2L engine) and smaller 25mm diameter axles. And, these are the standard axles used on the 6-cyl 124 chassis!

The W210 did not get upgraded rear axles until the entire rear differential was upgraded from the 210mm to either the 198mm or 215mm W220 diff (I forget which size those are). This happened at the 210 chassis A604351, or somewhere in 1998-99 model year production.

One of the shafts on my 124.032 started to make a sound this weekend. It’s an occasional clanking sound but it may be a good time to replace both. Where would be a good place to get replacements?

 

[gsxr]

One of the shafts on my 124.032 started to make a sound this weekend. It’s an occasional clanking sound but it may be a good time to replace both. Where would be a good place to get replacements?

First - I would also make VERY VERY sure the noise is from the CV joints, and not something else. CV joint failures are pretty rare. The ideal test is removal from the car and feeling for any rotational play with the axle and joints all perfectly level. There should be zero play when you try to turn the joint, while holding the axle stationary. If you find one or both with play or other abnormal wear, then:

I would either consider rebuilding yourself (@liviu165 posted an extremely in-depth How-To thread on this), OR replacing them with good used ones.

The off-brand "rebuilds" from McParts/FLAPS don't have a good reputation, but with a lifetime warranty, you may not care. Non-ASR axles are NLA from MB, but new ASR axles are available from the dealer, for a mere $1190 each list, ~$750 discount. (!!)

 

[Seangbadee]

First - I would also make VERY VERY sure the noise is from the CV joints, and not something else. CV joint failures are pretty rare. The ideal test is removal from the car and feeling for any rotational play with the axle and joints all perfectly level. There should be zero play when you try to turn the joint, while holding the axle stationary. If you find one or both with play or other abnormal wear, then:

I would either consider rebuilding yourself (@liviu165 posted an extremely in-depth How-To thread on this), OR replacing them with good used ones.

The off-brand "rebuilds" from McParts/FLAPS don't have a good reputation, but with a lifetime warranty, you may not care. Non-ASR axles are NLA from MB, but new ASR axles are available from the dealer, for a mere $1190 each list, ~$750 discount The funniest thing is that the noise only started after changed the rear shocks and front struts. I used Bilstein B4’s. and now there’s this ocassional clunk. It’s not related to going over bump buts just happens randomly. I’ll check this car out again and try your suggestion this weekend.

 

[liviu165]

My thread was referring to refreshing the rubber boots and grease. If the axles have play, chances are it may be already too late to refresh, replacement would be the best choice. Depending on the model, the inner CV might be available as a replacement, that's what we have on the 126 model. I am assuming on the 124.032 the inner CV could be replaced too and may be still available at the dealer.

 

[Seangbadee]

My thread was referring to refreshing the rubber boots and grease. If the axles have play, chances are it may be already too late to refresh, replacement would be the best choice. Depending on the model, the inner CV might be available as a replacement, at that's what we have on the 126 model. I am assuming on the 124.032 the inner CV may be avalable too.

Unfortunately I have zero experience with the axle or the CV shafts. I think the noise is from the left CV shaft. It puzzles me that this occurred after I changed the shocks.
My car is 124.032 and I believe it’s a non ASR.
I was wondering, what is the advantage or downside of replacing the entire rear differential with the ASR axle and shafts? There is one in excellent condition I could pick up in Atlanta for $100 but, again I have zero experience here.

 

[liviu165]

In your case it could be the shock on that side, not the axle. What is best in your case is hard to say w/o direct examination. I am familiar with the 126 model, but perhaps more knowledgeable people with your model could give you better advice.

 

[Seangbadee]

I never thought of that. I will replace it with the old one and start from there. Fortunately I did not throw the old ones away.
Thanks.

 

[kwontumspeed]

One of the shafts on my 124.032 started to make a sound this weekend. It’s an occasional clanking sound but it may be a good time to replace both. Where would be a good place to get replacements?

I would never associate a noise coming from the half shafts as “clanking” but describing sounds over text is always a challenge. Also, because of the constant rotational movement, “occasional” would also tend to eliminate the shaft, too. My guess is something happened when R&R the shock.

 

[Seangbadee]

I would never associate a noise coming from the half shafts as “clanking” but describing sounds over text is always a challenge. Also, because of the constant rotational movement, “occasional” would also tend to eliminate the shaft, too. My guess is something happened when R&R the shock.

I was thinking that too. I am taking them off this weekend and putting the old ones back on.

 

[gsxr]

I was thinking that too. I am taking them off this weekend and putting the old ones back on.

Verify the placement of the bushings on the shock. Should be 1 rubber piece below body, 1 above, with the body/frame sandwiched in the middle.

I ask because the PO of our E420 had installed KYB's and put both rubber pieces on one side, causing a rattle. I thought the KYB's were bad and installed new Bilsteins, then discovered the bushing snafu during the swap. Oy.

 

[Seangbadee]

Verify the placement of the bushings on the shock. Should be 1 rubber piece below body, 1 above, with the body/frame sandwiched in the middle.

I ask because the PO of our E420 had installed KYB's and put both rubber pieces on one side, causing a rattle. I thought the KYB's were bad and installed new Bilsteins, then discovered the bushing snafu during the swap. Oy.

Yes, that's how I installed them.