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Electric car impact on fuel availabilty and pricing in future(?)

Just days after Audi extended its combustion engine timeline, Mercedes is doing the same. CEO Ola Källenius says the brand is making a "course correction" and will keep producing gas-powered models longer than planned due to slower EV adoption. 1f440.png203c.png
Originally targeting full electrification by 2030 “where market conditions allow,” Mercedes now sees a dual gas-and-electric approach as the most realistic path.
 
Just days after Audi extended its combustion engine timeline, Mercedes is doing the same. CEO Ola Källenius says the brand is making a "course correction" and will keep producing gas-powered models longer than planned due to slower EV adoption. View attachment 217419View attachment 217420
Originally targeting full electrification by 2030 “where market conditions allow,” Mercedes now sees a dual gas-and-electric approach as the most realistic path.
EV is a completely scam and unrealistic. There is nothing wrong with Electric motors but not sufficient enough or harmless enough to the environment.
 
wow!



I was about to post this. I think the Chinese have a good handle on electric. They're going to own this technology for a while. The smart money for domestic manufacturers is to partner with them and sell these under domestic branding instead of spending millions trying to develop a product that won't compete. It's been done before:

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To me an EV would be like driving a refrigerator an electric stove a washing machine or electric dryer. It’s just an APPLIANCE!
I think it will work one some cars. Like an all electric rolls royce where silence from the engine is expected. As they're packaged today, they're not attractive because it's all big screen form over function. But so is every other new car.
 
A few interesting points from Cousin Pierre in his latest rant - he is also rocking a Dave Grohl look!! 🎸

Pierre finds many things objectionable in this video. But to me, nothing is more objectionable then the way he pronounces Leyland. It's literally spelled as it's pronounced.
 
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Pierre finds many things objectionable in this video. But to me, nothing is more objectionable then the way he pronounces Leyland. It's literally spelled as it's pronounced.
I did chuckle at that myself and wonder if it was an American thing.
 
Slightly off the main topic but the McLaren Formula E team will be disbanded at the end of the season as a new owner could not be found:

 
Mercedes CEO Warns Europe's Car Industry Could Collapse: 'We Need a Reality Check'
Unless the EU changes its mind, automakers are heading 'full speed against a wall.'


Only a few years ago, Mercedes-Benz was confident about going all-in on electric vehicles in Europe. In 2021, it projected that by the end of the decade, it would stop selling cars with combustion engines "where market conditions allow." Not only has the luxury brand dropped this ambitious goal, but it has also taken a 180-degree turn. Without ICE vehicles, the company’s head honcho believes the local automotive industry will "collapse."

In an interview with the German business newspaper Handelsblatt (subscription required), Ola Källenius warned that if the EU’s sales ban on new combustion-engine cars remains in place for 2035, Europe’s automotive industry will implode:

'We need a reality check. Otherwise, we are heading at full speed against a wall. Of course, we have to decarbonize, but it has to be done in a technology-neutral way. We must not lose sight of our economy.'
The Mercedes boss, who is also president of the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association (ACEA), cautions that the continent’s car industry will “collapse” if the EU doesn’t drop the ban. Before regulators outlaw new ICE vehicles, Källenius predicts customers will rush to buy gas and diesel cars ahead of the deadline, set to take effect in nine and a half years, which “doesn’t help the climate at all.”


Electric vehicles are nowhere near the 100 percent market share the EU wants to impose. In the first half of the year, cars without a combustion engine accounted for just 17.5 percent of total sales in EU countries, the UK, and the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) nations, namely Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland. ACEA data also shows that plug-in hybrids represented only 8.7 percent of total deliveries. Traditional hybrids made up 35 percent, but that figure includes mild-hybrids, which many would argue are not “true” hybrids.

The EU’s 2035 ban is not set in stone, as it is scheduled for review in the coming months. However, as recently as March, the European Commission (EC), the EU’s executive arm, reaffirmed its commitment to 0 g/km CO₂ emissions for new cars sold from the middle of the next decade. At the time, the EC said it would “accelerate work on the preparation of the foreseen review of the CO₂ Standards Regulation for cars and vans,” signaling a possible earlier reassessment of the ban.

Mercedes has reason to be concerned about the potential impact on its business. EV sales accounted for only 8.4 percent of its global shipments in the first half of 2025, down from 9.7 percent in the same period of 2024. Even when including PHEVs, electrified models made up just 20.1 percent of total deliveries in the first six months of the year.

Whether common sense will prevail remains to be seen, but given the strong opposition the EU is facing, there is hope the ban could be eased to some extent. We wouldn’t be surprised if, at the very least, plug-in hybrids and maybe full hybrids continue beyond 2034.
 
I found this while searching for a true EV vs ICE comparison including sourcing the materials, actually building the things and then the use of them all added up together.

I am a little concerned by the 14 year average lifespan of an EV and ICE, the average of my 2 x ICEs is already 21 years which is only going to rise...


Also, no mention of the impact at the end of their lives e.g. recycling etc.
 
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I think “climate change” has become a sort of religion for some. I agree with you—as long as I can decide to operate an ICE vehicle I have no problem with EVs. But when my insurance premiums increase to subsidize the insane cost of repairing EVs or they arbitrarily penalize the ICE owners then I do have a problem. Some here have even suggested that Mercedes’ commitment to EVs factored into the decision to cut back on parts production for older cars. That’s probably true—they seem to want everyone in an EV.
 
I think “climate change” has become a sort of religion for some. I agree with you—as long as I can decide to operate an ICE vehicle I have no problem with EVs. But when my insurance premiums increase to subsidize the insane cost of repairing EVs or they arbitrarily penalize the ICE owners then I do have a problem. Some here have even suggested that Mercedes’ commitment to EVs factored into the decision to cut back on parts production for older cars. That’s probably true—they seem to want everyone in an EV.
Its the new(est) cult and from the same people that don't know what to be angry about until they're told
 
2 esteemed old English (motoring journalist) gits talking about cars, the discussion is very much on point with the thoughts of many here e.g. lack of buttons, peak ICE years, Jaguar cutting it's own throat etc. etc.

 
It's going to be interesting to see what happens with Jaguar.

My guess is that within the next 2-3 years, perhaps sooner, there will be another wholesale changing of the leadership guard, and another "reboot" of the cars' design with a refocus on the performance/luxury roots, with industrial design an evolution of where things were some 15-20 years ago, as a starting point. And of course, the new generation will be ICE vehicles (perhaps with EV variants as part of the product line).

The current "pink woke" period of Jaguar history will be quickly forgotten and suppressed as an experiment/anomaly.

There is just too much heritage and equity in the "classic" Jaguar brand for it not to be re-constituted as a "back to the future" rebuilding of the marque.
 
It's going to be interesting to see what happens with Jaguar.

My guess is that within the next 2-3 years, perhaps sooner, there will be another wholesale changing of the leadership guard, and another "reboot" of the cars' design with a refocus on the performance/luxury roots, with industrial design an evolution of where things were some 15-20 years ago, as a starting point. And of course, the new generation will be ICE vehicles (perhaps with EV variants as part of the product line).

The current "pink woke" period of Jaguar history will be quickly forgotten and suppressed as an experiment/anomaly.

There is just too much heritage and equity in the "classic" Jaguar brand for it not to be re-constituted as a "back to the future" rebuilding of the marque.
I agree, Jaguar was one of the last bastions of British motoring along with Lotus etc.

They will either disappear into obscurity or re-invent possibly themselves if it all goes horribly wrong.

I don't believe there is much of an appetite from the British public to keep Jaguar "alive" and it will probably die a slow lingering death under its Indian owners...

I guess it depends how many of you 63 million Americans do or don't buy their upcoming offerings.
 
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Volvo's EX90 EV dubbed 'A Dumpster Fire Inside A Train Wreck'. Nice.

"Even unlocking and starting the car is an issue.
"The phone as a key does not work. It's not reliable and I gave up using it," she said, which is in line with my experience on the first drive. "I do have a [key] fob, and that hasn't worked since day one. So I depend on the key card entirely."
But if it's raining, Greer says she often has to hold the card up to the door sensor for 60-90 seconds. Usually, she says, it's more like 40 seconds. She also described a harrowing situation where the EX90 limited its power output as she was merging onto the highway, with the vehicle refusing to accelerate past 40 mph with the throttle pinned. "

 
I was talking to an IT industry friend this week and apparently the Cyber attack which has caused this huge issue at JLR is because it has caused ALL their manufacturing and part documentation / drawings etc. to be "lost".

They are now recreating everything again from scratch which as you can imagine is taking some time...
 
I was talking to an IT industry friend this week and apparently the Cyber attack which has caused this huge issue at JLR is because it has caused ALL their manufacturing and part documentation / drawings etc. to be "lost".

They are now recreating everything again from scratch which as you can imagine is taking some time...
Remember in the olden days, when there were paper copies of such things?

:oldster:
 
What a country. Someone had to bring this issue up! The more EVs on the road the less road taxes are collected. EV buyers didn’t think about this when they bought their rolling appliances with the manufacturer’s promise of savings on energy costs.

Does this sound familiar? “With Obama Care you can keep your same doctors and will save money” How did that work?

The government wants every pence/penny they can squeeze out of you. I suspect California will be next. I’ll be looking forward to the idiot’s in Sacramento lead by Newscumb coming up with a similar idea real soon!
 
What a country. Someone had to bring this issue up! The more EVs on the road the less road taxes are collected. EV buyers didn’t think about this when they bought their rolling appliances with the manufacturer’s promise of savings on energy costs.

Does this sound familiar? “With Obama Care you can keep your same doctors and will save money” How did that work?

The government wants every pence/penny they can squeeze out of you. I suspect California will be next. I’ll be looking forward to the idiot’s in Sacramento lead by Newscumb coming up with a similar idea real soon!
Indeed, it doesn’t take a mega brain to realise that the additional tax from fossil fuels is being eroded with every EV sold when VAT on electricity is less than 10% of the amount previously collected when the owner had an ICE vehicle.
 
It's going to be interesting to see what happens with Jaguar.
The writing is on the wall. IMO, they're not going to make it unless some other company steps in and buys them, should Tata decide to sell. Jaguar is not the only company which is going to go by the way of the Dodo. China is already the leading automobile maker, making 3x more than the second largest producer (the US) and that's before tapping the US market.

I suspect several German car brands will not make it. They can't compete on price or quality.


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I noticed in Friday's Wall Street Journal that Ford is strongly considering ceasing production of the "electric" EV F150 "Lightning" truck, as they have sold very few of them.

The same article said that Ford has lost $13+ BILLION on EV-related expenditures since 2023. Ouch.

Ford Considers Scrapping Electric Version of F-150 Truck​

Once hyped as a ‘smartphone that can tow,’ production of the money-losing EV pickup may be shut down for good


Ford Motor executives are in active discussions about scrapping the electric version of its F-150 pickup, according to people familiar with the matter, which would make the money-losing truck America’s first major EV casualty.

The Lightning, once described by Ford as a modern Model T for its importance to the company, fell far short of expectations as American truck buyers skipped the electric version of the top-selling truck. Ford has racked up $13 billion in EV losses since 2023.

Overall EV sales, already falling short of expectations, are expected to plummet in the absence of government support. And big, electric pickups and SUVs are the most vulnerable.

“The demand is just not there” for F-150 Lightning and other full-size trucks, said Adam Kraushaar, owner of Lester Glenn Auto Group in New Jersey. He sells Ford, GMC, Chevy and other brands. “We don’t order a lot of them because we don’t sell them.”

No final decision has yet been made, according to people familiar with the discussions, but such a move by Ford could be the beginning of the end for big EV trucks.

Ram truck-maker Stellantis earlier this year called off plans to make an electric version of its full-size pickup. General Motors executives have discussed discontinuing some electric trucks, according to people familiar with the matter. Sales of Tesla’s angular, stainless steel Cybertruck pickup tanked this year. And EV truck-maker Rivian has been cutting jobs to conserve cash.

A turn away from electric full-size trucks would align with Ford CEO Jim Farley’s more recent comments about the market: that EVs are great for commuting and other local driving, while hefty trucks will continue to need hybrid or all-gasoline powertrains.

Ford already paused production of its F-150 Lightning—the bestselling electric pickup in the U.S.—last month amid an aluminum shortage. The company is weighing whether to keep that plant idle as it shifts to smaller, more affordable EVs, the people say. The company said it would restart production “at the right time.”

In October, the first month since the end of the federal EV tax credit, Ford’s overall EV sales in the U.S. fell 24% from a year earlier. Ford dealers sold 66,000 gas-powered F-Series pickups, up a tick from a year earlier, and just 1,500 Lightnings, the fewest of any model.

Electric versions of the industry’s beefiest SUVs and pickups are stark embodiments of America’s EV reckoning. The trucks seemed a good bet amid booming EV demand and clean-air mandates that required automakers to sell fewer gas-guzzlers. That is no longer true as EV demand cools, while sales-boosting incentives and government regulations fall away.

Pulling back from producing these vehicles will cause pain through the automakers—and their suppliers. Already some plants have stopped production and put thousands of workers on unemployment lines. Ford rival GM set aside $1.6 billion in the third quarter to account for losses and said more charges will come in the future.

Electric trucks, with their hefty price tags and 1-ton batteries, were supposed to be Detroit’s answer to Tesla. Ford and GM thought their best shot was to enter with electric versions of their bestselling, most-profitable vehicles. Not only would the trucks have a built-in fan base, they also would address the EV profitability conundrum by commanding higher prices than a sedan or small SUV.

When Ford’s Farley launched the Lightning five years ago he promised a pickup as fast as a sports car and as affordable as a conventional truck. It would drive hundreds of miles on a single charge, and carry enough voltage to power a home for days.

“It’s like a smartphone that can tow 10,000 pounds,” Farley said at a celebration to launch the vehicle.

Demand was high in the truck’s early days as EV enthusiasts marveled over its zippy handling and futuristic design. Then-President Joe Biden drove one in 2021 and gushed, “This sucker’s quick!”

Mainstream truck buyers historically loyal to GM and Ford weren’t sold.

They balked at the price. Ford initially said the trucks would start around $40,000. But basic models went for closer to $50,000, and higher-end versions approached $90,000.

Truck buyers worried the pickups would run out of juice in the middle of a job or a long haul. The trucks’ range on a single charge is dramatically reduced when towing big loads or operating in cold weather.

That has spelled massive losses for Ford and GM.

GM has also lost billions on electric trucks after rolling out a string of them in recent years, including an electric version of the F-150’s rival, the Chevrolet Silverado. The company has three electric pickups, and it sold about 1,800 of them last month, according to Motor Intelligence.

The company last month said it would idle the Detroit factory that makes those trucks until Nov. 24.

GM executives have discussed whether to cull some of those trucks from its lineup, according to people familiar with the matter. The company last month stopped making an electric cargo van, the Chevrolet BrightDrop.

A GM spokesman said the automaker has no current plans to further change its product lineup or overall direction. The company is making progress in reducing the cost of making the trucks, he said.

Ford’s Farley has conceded that, when it comes to EVs, Americans want smaller, affordable models like those sold by Chinese automakers in markets outside the U.S., and not big, pricey trucks. The company is now racing to build a compact $30,000 EV pickup.

Ford built up the capacity to make as many as 150,000 Lightnings a year.

EVs cost billions to develop and manufacture, and can only be profitable if they sell in large enough volumes to cover the cost of building them, said Lenny LaRocca, who leads consulting firm KPMG’s auto sector. And nothing suggests robust sales in the near future.

“The volumes are not hitting where people would have expected when they made these investments,” he said.
 
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