From Russia with love - but living in Norway

[lowman]

Have you checked that both fuel pumps are running?
Another thing..has the car been like this since you got it?or did it just happen over night?

 

[little_e]

If it was always like this? I’m not sure. I have two other cars, the daily driver being an electric. This car and the other petrol car rarely sees usage, so I cannot really answer that one. Actually, this is the only long trip I’ve ever driven the car, except for picking it up. I normally just drive it around the city.

I have not checked the fuel pumps, because I have not any way of doing that here (I’m on a holiday).

I would say that it performs well off the line (ASR lamp kicks in even on dry asphalt in second gear on take-off), but on higher rpms and when you floor it, you get this... «was that it»-feeling?

 

[little_e]

So. Basically. The shop rang me. They couldn't find any faults, neither did they car produce any new fault codes.

...oh what to do. The car just doesn't perform. 0-100 kph = 10,5 seconds... but no faults... lol

 

[lowman]

bring te car to Stavanger..and ill fix it
Have you checked emissions? did you check the fuel pumps?have you checked backpressure in the exhaust?have you checked fuel pressure?

 

[gsxr]

Low fuel pressure, or high exhaust backpressure, WILL NOT trigger any codes.

 

[Taxi Driver]

Low fuel pressure, or high exhaust backpressure, WILL NOT trigger any codes.

Low fuel P, should give some "starvation issue" collapsed cat, cat's may not show around Town but when, pressing on. One should
be able to hear feel the probable back P, I Think...

 

[Steve119]

I would definately check cats indeed.

 

[little_e]

The car is still at the shop, but they found one fault. The oxygen sensor was broken (not defective, broken!). I have no idea as to how the LH-system reacts to that, but you people might know?

 

[Steve119]

If it is like most systems, it will not use the sensor signal at WOT. But of course it's a good find and should be replaced

 

[lowman]

The car is still at the shop, but they found one fault. The oxygen sensor was broken (not defective, broken!). I have no idea as to how the LH-system reacts to that, but you people might know?

im unsure how it reacts to a faulty O2 sensor...my car had a faulty O2 sensor also..and it was NOT slow...BUT on the other hand...if it has been default at a longer period of time...it could result in a clogged catalyst because of improper fueling.

 

[little_e]

Today I got the car back. As already written, the oxygen sensor (lambda/O2-sensor) has been replaced. With a lot of wheel spin, the car now did 0-100 at 8,3 seconds, from previously 10,2-10,5.
I started the measurement in first gear, maybe I would get better results starting off in second. Not sure.
The shop said that they couldn't find any other faults, and emissions are good.

However, idle is still not the best. It's better, but not the best. The engine seems to miss here and there at idle.
Should I fork out for a new MAF, or could it be something else? The engine does run better, mind you.

 

[lowman]

you should do what you want to do..but starting to throw parts at it can be expensive.
Still,,you should check short term fuel trim, fuel pressure, MAF readings,and exhaust back pressure.and double check for vacum leaks.Timing should also be checked out.¨¨

But if you feel like just buying a new MAF...go ahead

 

[little_e]

Well, I have no way of checking all this data

 

[gsxr]

Today I got the car back. As already written, the oxygen sensor (lambda/O2-sensor) has been replaced. With a lot of wheel spin, the car now did 0-100 at 8,3 seconds, from previously 10,2-10,5.
I started the measurement in first gear, maybe I would get better results starting off in second. Not sure.

Best acceleration will be starting in 1st gear. 0-100kph in 8 seconds with wheelspin isn't bad, although it should be closer to 6 seconds with minimal wheelspin (see video below).

However, idle is still not the best. It's better, but not the best. The engine seems to miss here and there at idle.
Should I fork out for a new MAF, or could it be something else? The engine does run better, mind you.

Are your spark plugs non-resistor F8DCR F8DC4 (or equivalent non-resistor), gapped to 1.0mm?

[video=youtube;U8LZCZUWFjs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8LZCZUWFjs[/video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8LZCZUWFjs

 

[little_e]

My spark plugs are not F8DCR, but I did get my spark plugs at a Mercedes-Benz dealer, so they should be okay. It is the spark plug they gave me when I gave them my vin. And it is a non-resistor type. I cannot remember the brand :/

 

[gsxr]

D'oh!

Sorry - typo - I mean F8DC4, non-resistor. If they are dealer plugs you should be fine though. If they were not Bosch, they are probably the Beru equivalent.

 

[Eno]

The dealer sometimes is not sure cause there is lots of numbers in EPC as per chassis for spark plugs.
For my '92 500E they gave me these Bosch plugs with the MB star.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gsxr]

The dealer sometimes is not sure cause there is lots of numbers in EPC as per chassis for spark plugs.

The EPC typically shows 3 different part numbers, for Bosch, Beru, and Champion. At any given time only 1 of the 3 may be available. They are all equivalent.

For my '92 500E they gave me these Bosch plugs with the MB star.

Those are the right ones, Bosch F8DC4 with MB star, made in Germany. Those are also NLA now, replaced by the Beru version (unless your dealer happens to have any of the Bosch left on the shelf).

 

[little_e]

I'm 99% sure I got some Beru ones, and I'm pretty sure they're called 14F8DU4.

 

[little_e]

So I pulled fault codes, since I bought one of those breakout boxes from eBay.
Pin 7: code 14 (what is that????)
Pin 19: couldn't read anything here, didn't even get one blink. Bad connection?

I know the ETA has been replaced at some stage, because it's date stamped 02M06.

Any thoughts?

 

[doolar]

So I pulled fault codes, since I bought one of those breakout boxes from eBay.
Pin 7: code 14 (what is that????)
Pin 19: couldn't read anything here, didn't even get one blink. Bad connection?

I know the ETA has been replaced at some stage, because it's date stamped 02M06.

Any thoughts?

Pin 7 code 14 is "Closed throttle position switch (S29/3)". I don't know which switch it refers to.

Pin 19 is for US only cars, so if your car was sold in Europe there's nothing to get from pin 19, it should be a total blank.

 

[little_e]

Okay. S29/3 will refer to this.
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1438

Is there a procedure to adjust the linkage before I order the switch?

 

[lowman]

Okay. S29/3 will refer to this.
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1438

Is there a procedure to adjust the linkage before I order the switch?

It is inside the throttle body .

 

[gsxr]

S29/3 is located inside the car near the accelerator pedal.

Switches inside the ETA / throttle body are designated MXX/Y, for example M16/1.

More on S29/3 located here: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=742

 

[lowman]

S29/3 is located inside the car near the accelerator pedal.

Switches inside the ETA / throttle body are designated MXX/Y, for example M16/1.

More on S29/3 located here: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=742

oh yeees...thankx.i got it mixed up

 

[little_e]

As mentioned earlier in the post I had a fault code on the throttle switch (idle switch, S29/3). This switch has now been replaced along with lots of vacuum hoses/lines and sensors.

However I always suspected that the car wasn't performing the way it should, so after the part replacement was done, my friend and I had a look at the throttle body (ETA).
It seems to open just a tad more when the ignition is on than when the ignition is off.

We have adjusted the throttle linkage like WIS says (it was almost 100% accurate to begin with), and it didn't change anything.

I know my ETA has been replaced at some stage, because it's stamped 02M06.

If it is of any interest, idle is still a bit uneven. ASR light is not on.

What could be wrong?

 

[195910]

- Caps and distributors ?
- harness ?
- MAF?

 

[little_e]

Caps and distributors are new. Wiring has been replaced at some time.
However. None of these items can make the ETA not open fully.

 

[gsxr]

The ETA butterfly will only open about halfway with the engine / ignition off. With the key on to position 2 (all lights on instrument cluster), if you press the accelerator pedal to the floor, the ETA butterfly will open slightly more, but still not open all the way unless the engine is running. It's a drive-by-wire system that needs the electronics energized to function.

Also, the butterfly does not open to full vertical (90°). Max opening is 80-something degrees. This can also be viewed in the live data stream from the LH module via SDS / HHT-Win.

 

[little_e]

Yes. That I know - mine however opens to about the same with ignition on as with ignition off. Maybe (but just maybe) a tad more with ignition on.

 

[gsxr]

Yes. That I know - mine however opens to about the same with ignition on as with ignition off. Maybe (but just maybe) a tad more with ignition on.

Hmmm... that isn't right. Next step is to check for error codes (DTC's) on the E-GAS module, preferably with a digital scanner. And, check the throttle valve angle via digital scanner too.

What part number is the E-GAS module in the car?

 

[Rouven036]

The ETA butterfly will only open about halfway with the engine / ignition off. With the key on to position 2 (all lights on instrument cluster), if you press the accelerator pedal to the floor, the ETA butterfly will open slightly more, but still not open all the way unless the engine is running. It's a drive-by-wire system that needs the electronics energized to function.

Also, the butterfly does not open to full vertical (90°). Max opening is 80-something degrees. This can also be viewed in the live data stream from the LH module via SDS / HHT-Win.

Dave, is this happening in driving condition too? Not full opening of throttle plate? Too long ago I have played around with the sd on the lh 500... Cause the C63 w204 was also detuned in that way from factory. The throttle did not open 100% iirc

 

[little_e]

At the moment I haven't got access to a digital scanner (a friend has HFM-scan, will that do?), what scanner can you recommend?

My E-GAS module has the following number: 124 545 4432.
If you scroll a bit up there's a picture of all the modules in the car

 

[gsxr]

Dave, is this happening in driving condition too? Not full opening of throttle plate? Too long ago I have played around with the sd on the lh 500... Cause the C63 w204 was also detuned in that way from factory. The throttle did not open 100% iirc

Yes, from memory, the throttle only opens to 80-something percent. I think it's a design limit of the ETA. Drive the car at full throttle while a passenger views live data on throttle angle, and it will max out 8x%. This is very different from the C63 (M156), which was electronically de-tuned by reducing throttle opening to like 60%. Which is why the C63 "tunes" have such large power gains, they just allow it to open to max possible, as with the E63. Meanwhile, the "tunes" for the E63 barely do anything despite the crazy claims by most tuners.

At the moment I haven't got access to a digital scanner (a friend has HFM-scan, will that do?), what scanner can you recommend?

I'd recommend the Star SDS C3 (or C4), which will do everything possible on the E500E, and also work with most all other MB models. HFM Scan does have limited capability on LH systems, click here for more info - probably need to buy some adapters, and it will only get LH data.

My E-GAS module has the following number: 124 545 4432. If you scroll a bit up there's a picture of all the modules in the car

OK - that's the correct module, just checking! Still need to pull codes and see if there are any errors stored.

 

[little_e]

Just a small update - after replacing the S29/3, I have zero fault codes (with the blinker), but the ETA acts the same. I have yet to find someone to read fault codes with the Star System.
A few questions:
In WIS there is something called "mechanical limp home" mentioned, where you get 2/3 power available. Will ASR light up due to so-called mechanical limp home?
If I have a defective module (e-gas etc) - how will that affect the ETA? Will it work at all?
Can Star read fault codes not available with the manual blinking system?

 

[gsxr]

In WIS there is something called "mechanical limp home" mentioned, where you get 2/3 power available. Will ASR light up due to so-called mechanical limp home?

Yes. When in limp mode, the ASR light should illuminate. Make sure the bulb is good, it should light up when you turn the key to position 2, before starting the engine.

If I have a defective module (e-gas etc) - how will that affect the ETA? Will it work at all?

Usually, with a defective E-GAS module, you would be in limp mode at all times, and cruise control would not work.

Can Star read fault codes not available with the manual blinking system?

Yes, sort of, maybe. If the blink code shows 1 blink (no faults) there shouldn't be any codes displayed with the Star system (SDS) either. However it would be good to double-check. For the E-GAS module specifically, the SDS will show more accurate codes than the blinker box. Click here for details, see the attached files in that thread.

 

[stevenstevensteven]

Somehow I missed this thread until now. I'm in love with the exterior color of your car.

 

[little_e]

Well, the ASR light illuminates in position 2 before starting the engine. I managed to get the car in some kind limp home after fiddling with the throttle wire, and then it illuminated all the time. So it is working. Is there a way to fool the system to make the ASR-lamp turn off while the system is still in limp home?

Btw, cruise control is working 100%.

 

[little_e]

Okay! I have the solution. There is nothing wrong with my car.
After watching a couple of videos on youtube and mailing Victor at Restoreyourmercedes.com, I got it confirmed that the ETA opens about half way with ignition on. When the engine is under load, it will open more. Later ETAs will open all the way with ignition on, but not mine