fuel injectors

[samiam44]

OK guys,

Through the years Bosch made changes to the injectors. I believe too that injectors besides size and flow rate in lbs... What is the mass-flow rate of a stock injector? Any way i can just order up a new bosch set through Ford for a mustang where they are $80 new? How about improvements through the years..

Looks like our injectors are bosch 0 280 155 217 which has a unique impedence of 13.1 where 14.3 is more the norm. 19 lb/hr is the most common flow rate. THe 93+ seem to be 4-hole connector is EV1. There are adapter for the electrical fitting to go from the current EV6 to EV1. So no wiring issue. Just don't know how temperimental the LH computer will be with a impedence change @ injector.

Michael

 

[gsxr]

There were at least five different OE injector part numbers used on the M119 in at least three different colors. In general they changed each model year. But other than the number of orifices, I can't find any specifications to figure out the difference between the five part numbers.

 

[500AMM]

There were at least five different OE injector part numbers used on the M119 in at least three different colors. In general they changed each model year. But other than the number of orifices, I can't find any specifications to figure out the difference between the five part numbers.

I think this is quite common to all engine management systems (EMS) from MB, product propriarities.

Since the injector has a Bosch partnumber it should be possible to find the differences via Bosch.

 

[gsxr]

Since the injector has a Bosch partnumber it should be possible to find the differences via Bosch.

Great! Are you volunteering?

Here are the three Bosch numbers I have (of five):

0-280-155-203 - 1992 injector, white body, four nozzle
0-280-155-207 - 1993 injector, blue body, two nozzle
0-280-155-217 - 1994 injector, orange body, two nozzle

1997 injector, white body, two nozzle - This is the current MB part number, but it is a Siemens injector, not Bosch. There is no visible Siemens part number on the injector body. The MB number is 000-078-83-23. The aftermarket catalogs are showing that the current/orderable Bosch equivalent is Bosch # 0-280-156-024, which is a narrow, plastic-bodied, blue-color injector (see attached).

 

[doolar]

Yesterday I changed my orange body injectors to blue body ones. I bought a refurbished set off Ebay a year ago. Haven't started the car up yet, so don't know if it'll explode or not from different injectors. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Jim]

Injectors seem to fall into either high resistance around 14 ohm and low resistance 4 ohm. I do not worry about using plus or minus ~1 ohm on the high resistance injectors the Bosch system we have needs.

I am not sure if you can say the same about the low resistance injectors.

The important thing is not to mix the high and low resistance applications as the electronic approach to operating the injector is completely different.

 

[gerryvz]

My understanding is that these injectors are quite reliable and also are (to some extent) rebuildable.

Can anyone detail the conditions present where one would know their injectors are bad and need replacing and/or refurbishment?

I got a spare set of injectors off of an LH-injected W140 and am preserving them in a jar of kerosene (along with a spare set of M104 injectors also off of a parts car).

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[gsxr]

I have the same question. AFAIK, the "rebuilders" basically just ultrasonic clean the injectors and test them for flow & spray pattern. I don't believe they actually disassemble the injectors. I'm not 100% certain though.

Edit: Some rebuilders do indeed disassemble the injectors and replace the internal O-ring between the housing sections.

 

[gerryvz]

They are somewhat disassemble-able (new word?).

I believe there are several replaceable parts on the LH injectors, such as:

- pintle caps (on the end)
- couple of different O-rings
- spacer ring above pintle cap
- mesh filter (at top of injector)

I would assume they would be cleaned and spray/flow tested, as well as the electrical connection tested for resistance, as Jim mentions above?

For the K- and KE-Jet injectors (as used on the W126 V-8 models), they cannot be disassembled, only ultrasonically cleaned and flow-tested. And I have not heard good stories about the ultrasonic cleaning of them working all that well. Generally the K-/KE-Jet injectors operate on a pressure principle, whereby system pressure opens and closes the injector against the resistance of a spring inside the injector barrel. These springs get weak over time and don't allow the injector to fully close, so that it then leaks fuel causing running and driveability problems. The service life of these injectors is 75-80K miles. Interesting but I ran my 560 injectors about 2.5 times that before finally buying new ones. At $35-40 apiece new, they have gone up significantly in price over the past couple of years (nearly doubling) but are still extremely reasonably priced compared to LH injectors, which are around a couple hundred-plus dollars each.

I am not very familiar with issues relating to LH injectors. The good thing is that they seem to have a much longer life than the K-/KE-Jet injectors.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[036/199]

I have the same question. AFAIK, the "rebuilders" basically just ultrasonic clean the injectors and test them for flow & spray pattern. I don't believe they actually disassemble the injectors. I'm not 100% certain though.

The guy I use replaces all the parts Gerry mentioned after ultrasonic cleaning.
He checks flow rate and spray pattern before and after.

I assume some only change parts(other than the O-rings) only if flow and/or spray pattern is an issue...

 

[gsxr]

I believe there are several replaceable parts on the LH injectors, such as:

- pintle caps (on the end)
- couple of different O-rings
- spacer ring above pintle cap
- mesh filter (at top of injector)

I would assume they would be cleaned and spray/flow tested, as well as the electrical connection tested for resistance, as Jim mentions above?

Right - but all that stuff is external, not internal. Unless the mesh inlet filter is partly plugged (which isn't likely, as there is another mesh filter at the fuel rail inlet), the items above won't affect flow rate or performance. I think the "rebuild" process largely consists of ultrasonic cleaning. Continual use of name-brand gasoline, plus occasional use of good injector cleaner, likely will produce the same results.

 

[Christian_K]

I have replaced my old 4 point injectors with later ones from 1995 W210 M119 and found the car to be running "softer". I have to say though, that maybe its because the ones i have in it are ultrasonic cleaned.

Gerry, the M104 3.2L and the M119 injectors are interchangeable more or less.
I have successfully "borrowed" to my friends W124 CE320 two M119 injectors. According to online Bosch lists, they have the same resistance, the same flow rate and according to my observation the same spray pattern/angle. Only difference is a small piece of plastic thats turned 180° when you compare the M119 <-> M014 side by side - still the lock pieces that snap into a little groove do fit. His car runs great with em.

 

[gerryvz]

Thanks for the information Christian.

 

[maplevalleyhammer]

Just ordered 8 rebuilt injectors for $135!
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Hi BRIAN - Order confirmed. eBay will update you when your order ships to 22061 238th Pl SE

[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]PAID : $134.98 with PayPal

Fast 'N Free shipping.
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[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]

[TABLE="width: 100%, align: center"][TR][TD][TABLE="width: 600, align: center"][TR][TD][TABLE="align: left"][TR][TD]View order details
[/TD][/TR][/TABLE][/TD][/TR][/TABLE]
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[TABLE="width: 540, align: left"][TR][TD]

SET OF 8 BOSCH FUEL INJECTORS 0280155217 1992-1997 MERCEDES BENZ 4.2L 5.0L V8

[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Estimated delivery: Tue. Jan. 31 - Fri. Feb. 3
[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]
Item Id: 401137104063
Transaction Id 608159474027
Quantity: 1
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[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]

 

[Christian_K]

Hmm the Connector part looks like its molten away.... Weird

 

[Christian_K]

1997 injector, white body, two nozzle - This is the current MB part number, but it is a Siemens injector, not Bosch. There is no visible Siemens part number on the injector body. The MB number is 000-078-83-23. The aftermarket catalogs are showing that the current/orderable Bosch equivalent is Bosch # 0-280-156-024, which is a narrow, plastic-bodied, blue-color injector (see attached).

And it should be 5 hole too! Modern spray pattern for dual port cylinder heads - have such similar ones by Bosch in my M113 engine aswell.

 

[Kyiv]

Just ordered 8 rebuilt injectors for $135!

Hi BRIAN - Order confirmed. eBay will update you when your order ships to 22061 238th Pl SE PAID : $134.98 with PayPal Fast 'N Free shipping.

View order details

SET OF 8 BOSCH FUEL INJECTORS 0280155217 1992-1997 MERCEDES BENZ 4.2L 5.0L V8 Estimated delivery: Tue. Jan. 31 - Fri. Feb. 3 Item Id: 401137104063 Transaction Id 608159474027 Quantity: 1

Any feedback on your purchase?

 

[little_e]

I ordered injectors from eBay (I ordered A0000788383) and I was sent A0000788683. As far as I can see those are for the M104 97+. Are they usable in my M119 - at all?

 

[195910]

No, since we don't have information about the flow rate and resistance of these injectors.

You need 4949 or 8323.. nothing else is confirmed.

I toke out the 4949 and replaced with newer cleaned set of 8323, but I am trying to complete a new set of 4949, if anyone has 2 new injectors please let me know.

 

[little_e]

Yeah, I was suspecting that. Thanks

 

[gsxr]

I ordered injectors from eBay (I ordered A0000788383) and I was sent A0000788683.

Can you check the p/n's? Those are not coming up in the EPC.

Do you mean you ordered 000-078-83-23 and received 000-078-86-23? If so, those #86 don't appear to be correct...

 

[little_e]

Yes, I'm sorry. You are - as always - correct. I had a little typo. I ordered 8323, got 8623. I hope the seller refunds me.

 

[gerryvz]

@little_e — what ever happened with this ?

 

[little_e]

Sorry for leaving this up in the air. The seller reimbursed me and I ordered a new set of injectors (and got a correct set) from a different vendour.

 

[gerryvz]

No worries - thank you for the update. Have a great day!!

 

[Trae]

Great! Are you volunteering?

Here are the three Bosch numbers I have (of five):

0-280-155-203 - 1992 injector, white body, four nozzle
0-280-155-207 - 1993 injector, blue body, two nozzle
0-280-155-217 - 1994 injector, orange body, two nozzle

1997 injector, white body, two nozzle - This is the current MB part number, but it is a Siemens injector, not Bosch. There is no visible Siemens part number on the injector body. The MB number is 000-078-83-23. The aftermarket catalogs are showing that the current/orderable Bosch equivalent is Bosch # 0-280-156-024, which is a narrow, plastic-bodied, blue-color injector (see attached).

According to this spec sheet, ALL 1992-1994 injectors have exaclty the same specs:

The 1997, 0-280-156-024, is different. Don't know about its use in our 500Es.

​

Fuel Injector information Specifications EFI Flow

 

[motto123]

Bosch # 0-280-156-024, 1997 M119.982

Dave,

I found this injector - Bosch # 0-280-156-024 - for US$60 new. Is this a good price?
Also, as I will run the M119.982 with aftermarket ECU (full sequential), is there a better choice for an injector?

Thank you,
Matthias

 

[gsxr]

I found this injector - Bosch # 0-280-156-024 - for US$60 new. Is this a good price?

AFAIK these injectors are NLA fro Bosch so if you found genuine NOS, that seems like a reasonable price. I think they might still be available new from the dealer but the price is substantially higher.

Also, as I will run the M119.982 with aftermarket ECU (full sequential), is there a better choice for an injector?

Great question. I don't know the answer, I've never experimented with either aftermarket ECU nor non-stock injectors. Sure would be nice if you could use a commonly-available injector though instead of chasing down NLA stuff.


Another option is to get a set of used injectors and send them out for rebuilding at either RC Fuel Injection or GB Remanufacturing, both located in SoCal.

 

[motto123]

AFAIK these injectors are NLA fro Bosch so if you found genuine NOS, that seems like a reasonable price. I think they might still be available new from the dealer but the price is substantially higher.



Great question. I don't know the answer, I've never experimented with either aftermarket ECU nor non-stock injectors. Sure would be nice if you could use a commonly-available injector though instead of chasing down NLA stuff.


Another option is to get a set of used injectors and send them out for rebuilding at either RC Fuel Injection or GB Remanufacturing, both located in SoCal.

My feeling is that I can use Bosch 0280.158.107, please see the attached file. Long body EV14 with conical spray. Will do more research next week and let you know.

 

[motto123]

E500 Injector Update

0280156024 is discontinued. So nothing for the future. but still available new sometimes for $60 each. The only vendor I found is Fiveomotorsport.

The injectors below all cost less or at least not more and are brand new Bosch EV6 or EV14 (different design, more flexible regarding rail pressure, and clearly better atomizing.

0280155023 is a Volvo injector that can be ordered. EV6, 4 hole, split, flow is 214cc, it has 15 Ohm.
For increased flow, there is 0280155832. EV6, 4 hole, split, flow is 268cc, it has 12 Ohm.
For even more, there is 0280158205. EV14l, 4 hole, split, flow is 304cc, it has 12 Ohm.

500E fuel system design and challenges
The fuel rail pressure in the 500e is 4 bar. According to Bosch Motorsport, the EV1 is unstable at fuel pressure lower than 3 bar, and atomizing improves with 4 bar. This seems to be the reasoning behind the design of the 500E injection system. There wasn't anything better available at the time.

Fuel rail pressure adjustment to get correct flow rate with larger or smaller injectors.
You can get the fuel pressure regulator in many different pressures (0.5 bar steps) and there also is an adjustable version available. Meaning, you could use a higher flow modern injector and reduce the fuel pressure. The result should still be better than the original EV1 injectors. EV14 injector have better atomizing for flow rate higher than 252cc or 24lbs.
The pump won't mind lower rail pressure and the fuel temperature should go down.

Best injector webpage I found
A great webpage for injectors and more is: www.finjector.com. All the relevant information is shown here and they respond quickly.
The US dealer webpages are typically hiding the relevant information like e.g. γ= 0 degrees, δ=0 degrees, Type: E (v-pattern) and don't provide part numbers either. You just get that the injectors will fit or you find nothing. I typically don't believe that and the webpages are never up to date.

Best calculator I found
Also, there is a pretty nice webpage with a calculator from a tuner in the US (old school): www.rbracing-rsr.com/calcinjpulse.html
You need to scroll down to the bottom for the calculation chart. It also provides cycle time and is more detailed in general.

 

[motto123]

E500 Stock injector - angle between the two beams

Does anybody know the angle (E) betweeen the two spray beams of the stock injector? I couldn't find this information on any webpage.