We have this engine in a S211. It too was making a strange noise so I changed the tensioner and idler pulleys - I used a Gates kit, with the tensioner identical to the original (both made by Litens). It didn’t make a bit of difference - turned out to be the alternator on the way out, which I replaced with a new Valeo item a couple of weeks later!
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Thanks for that and good information on the tensioner. I did order a Gates belt, tensioner and idler pulleys should have them by the weekend hopefully.
Its very hard to tell where the noise is coming from! I did use an automotive stethoscope and listened to alternator bearings etc they all sounded OK. The other clue was the noise was gone momentarily just after I washed the engine. I'm thinking an idler pulley etc and it was quiet simply because a small amount of the oily water may have made it inside and temporarily quietened it.
If the noise is still there I may go ahead and pull the alternator and have my local guy rebuild it and rule it out.
The other strange observation is the oil "leak". From when I first inspected the engine at the dealers yard the whole front of the engine had alot of black oil all over it and so much so the serpentine belt was coated in the stuff.
Since jet washing all that oil away I am surprised to find I cannot see any trace of an oil leak
maybe early days yet but how was there so much and now none at all when cleaned up? Im thinking perhaps the garage who did the recent timing chain may have spilled alot of oil around the front of the engine when removing the cam covers and did not make any attempt to clean it up.Anyway I'll keep checking with a LED inspection lamp and mirror during the week to see if I can locate and new oil weeps.
@JC220 ... this one appears to have had a color correction... see how the color just pops? Looks like liquid metal, something out of a Terminator movie.
carsandbids.com
This one is Designo Graphite which is VERY similar to your Flint Grey.
maw
2008 Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG - 604-hp Twin Turbo V12, Highly Equipped, Largely Unmodified
This 2008 Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG is for sale on Cars & Bids! Auction ends October 11 2021.
This one is Designo Graphite which is VERY similar to your Flint Grey.
maw
Our S211 is an 09 car with about 156k miles on it now. It had the well known oil cooler seal leak a few years ago which I repaired; the oil from that drains out of the rear (UK) passenger side. There was oil on the front of the engine caused by a failing O ring that seals the aluminium tube running across the top of the engine to the intercooler pipe / resonator, which allowed oily air to be blown all over the front of the block - it could well be your car was similarly affected and then repaired without the clean up. Unfortunately they’re not particularly clean breathers, and it always dismays me how much oil is in the inlet tract. That all said I really like the engine, and it’s been a good car for the 10 years we have had it.
Thanks and yes good point that even a small weap on a O ring on a diesel intake could create a mess! I also agree that it is always slightly frightening how much oil can be in a good running diesel engine's intake system!
This car appears to have no leak yet from oil cooler. However as you say it is a well known problem on the om642 and MB did revise the seals also. So I do intend to proactively replace those gaskets over the Christmas break. That will include pretty much all of the O rings up front on the intake / EGR systems too. Not a full nut and bolt resto but a top end seal renewal to make sure it stays on daily duty with no oil leaks.
Ref the squeaking noise, when I am replacing the belt etc I will run the engine momentarily with no serpentine belt just to confrim the noise is something on the belt drive. Then after the tensioner etc if the noise is still there then the other ancillaries are suspect.
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Tonight after work I replaced the belt, idler pulleys & tensioner. All were OE parts being Litens Gates boxed tensioner with MB Part number ground off and Febi idler pulleys wit INA in the box.
The old pulleys were tired anyway and the tensioner one was definitely dry. But of course the noise persisted
I did run the engine for a few seconds with no belt and there was no noise. So it is something on the belt drive. Right now from listening closer I am quite sure it is the AC Compressor bearing.
So the question is do I buy a new compressor pulley with bearing & special removal tool or a new compressor. I'm leaning towards the latter. Note my W221 has no AC Gas and doesnt hold a vacuum at all hardly so there are AC issues. Presume condensor for the moment but will investigate further.
The old pulleys were tired anyway and the tensioner one was definitely dry. But of course the noise persisted
I did run the engine for a few seconds with no belt and there was no noise. So it is something on the belt drive. Right now from listening closer I am quite sure it is the AC Compressor bearing.
So the question is do I buy a new compressor pulley with bearing & special removal tool or a new compressor. I'm leaning towards the latter. Note my W221 has no AC Gas and doesnt hold a vacuum at all hardly so there are AC issues. Presume condensor for the moment but will investigate further.
I realise I did not post photos of my "new" old w221:
The last photo there was after I had corrected the rear ride height. (PO had installed a lowering link, got an OE one from MB)
It has factory AMG Kit, was missing the AMG wheels but the ones on it now are correct W221 20 inch AMG wheels perhaps from facelift model w221. In any case I think these AMG wheels are perfect and probably better than what it would have had being a pre facelift.
One chrome bezel is missing on the front left fog lamp. That is AMG specific so will order new from MB all being well. Never polished the paint will get to that and perhaps ceramic coating too. Wheels still need professional refurb also which I will book in for coming weeks, probably will keep keep them a decent flake metallic silver.
The last photo there was after I had corrected the rear ride height. (PO had installed a lowering link, got an OE one from MB)
It has factory AMG Kit, was missing the AMG wheels but the ones on it now are correct W221 20 inch AMG wheels perhaps from facelift model w221. In any case I think these AMG wheels are perfect and probably better than what it would have had being a pre facelift.
One chrome bezel is missing on the front left fog lamp. That is AMG specific so will order new from MB all being well. Never polished the paint will get to that and perhaps ceramic coating too. Wheels still need professional refurb also which I will book in for coming weeks, probably will keep keep them a decent flake metallic silver.
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I did sell my high miler w211 so it is away to a happy new owner! The transition from a daily driver E to S has gone better than expected. I was slightly worried about the fuel economy and how it would drive on my daily commute.
I have recently changed jobs to a Design Manager which means my commute is now over a mountain and through very twisty roads. It is actually an area of outstanding natural beauty so is scenic, but this worried me how a circa 2 tonne S class would handle such terrain.
The modes from Comfort, Sport and Manual do also change the air suspension ride along with the engine and gear change charateristics. I find that comfort mode is fine and occasionaly use the steering wheel paddle shifts to drop a gear before overtaking someone. The car handles like something much smaller than it is and I can push it on well without feeling like its a land barge! The comfort is also far superior to the w211 so, so far so good on daily driving a w221
I have recently changed jobs to a Design Manager which means my commute is now over a mountain and through very twisty roads. It is actually an area of outstanding natural beauty so is scenic, but this worried me how a circa 2 tonne S class would handle such terrain.
The modes from Comfort, Sport and Manual do also change the air suspension ride along with the engine and gear change charateristics. I find that comfort mode is fine and occasionaly use the steering wheel paddle shifts to drop a gear before overtaking someone. The car handles like something much smaller than it is and I can push it on well without feeling like its a land barge! The comfort is also far superior to the w211 so, so far so good on daily driving a w221
Dealt with another item on my w221 that required attention. That is the ignition tumbler in the dashboard. These have electronic keys and sometimes the barrel can go bad whereby it doesn't crank the engine or put on ignition unless you cycle key several times.
It could lead to being stranded and if you wait until the barrel quits it's very difficult to pull the passwords and ignition data.
Got a good used barrel from Latvia with exact PN and my friend, an automotive locksmith transfered the ignition data to it today and installed it.
So over the next few days I will monitor if the key issues are repaired.
It also starts after extended cranking in the mornings. New glow plugs ready to install tomorrow. Soaking the old ones ones penetrating oil again tonight to try and lower the risk of them snapping off in the heads.
It could lead to being stranded and if you wait until the barrel quits it's very difficult to pull the passwords and ignition data.
Got a good used barrel from Latvia with exact PN and my friend, an automotive locksmith transfered the ignition data to it today and installed it.
So over the next few days I will monitor if the key issues are repaired.
It also starts after extended cranking in the mornings. New glow plugs ready to install tomorrow. Soaking the old ones ones penetrating oil again tonight to try and lower the risk of them snapping off in the heads.
Got the Glow Plugs changed - went for Beru plugs which is the OEM supplier to MB. The ones in there came out AOK and I did also coat the replacements with ceramic grease to prevent them seizing in the heads.
I did test the glow plugs I removed and they appear OK going by the multimeter readings. So if it is still slow to start tomorrow morning I think the glow plug controller is suspect. It passed tests on Star but I know these are a common failure item on the OM642 and if a proir glow plug blew it can take that channel in the controller with it. I could test the outputs of course but for just over £100 for a new controller id rather just buy a new one and spend 5 mins fitting it and rule it out.
I did test the glow plugs I removed and they appear OK going by the multimeter readings. So if it is still slow to start tomorrow morning I think the glow plug controller is suspect. It passed tests on Star but I know these are a common failure item on the OM642 and if a proir glow plug blew it can take that channel in the controller with it. I could test the outputs of course but for just over £100 for a new controller id rather just buy a new one and spend 5 mins fitting it and rule it out.
Update- The new glow plugs appear to have cured the starting issue.
None of the old bosch glow plugs were open circuit. The resistance was slightly higher on the old plugs at 0.8ohms VS 0.4 on the new beru ones. First time I've seen bad glow plugs that weren't open circuit but it is starting perfectly now.
I've found the resistance test for glow plugs is a rough test, and works 99% of the time to identify bad plugs. Unfortunately, for the remaining 1% you need a current test, which is more difficult to perform - need a clamp-type DC ammeter on each glow plug wire. Abnormally low current = bad plug.
Glad you got it sorted, Joe!
Thanks Dave, I need to get a clamp meter.
These "newer" MBs have low voltage glow plugs at 4v. It used to be easy when they were 12v. Just get a test lamp and see if it lights up or conduct a not very scientific but pretty accurate test of touching each 12v glow plug tip with a + fed wire. If it sparked you knew it was pulling juice and therefore a good plug.
Update, just over a week now and the key / locking issues I had when I bought the car are gone. Hasn't done it a single time since the ignition module was replaced.
So regarding my w221 the only fault left to take care of is the AC pump replacement and finding the reason why it is also losing AC gas and not holding vacuum for more than 30 secs. Probably nad condenser but visually from above it looks in perfect condition
Apologies again for lack of updates on my owners thread- my new Design Manager job and Architecture business at home are both flat out. But I get 12 days of at Christmas so that will be reserved for car time 
In other news I will be applying for my motorcycle license in spring time and hope to also enjoy 2 wheeled motoring next year.
A 2020 Harley Davidson Iron is on my wanted list next year
In other news I will be applying for my motorcycle license in spring time and hope to also enjoy 2 wheeled motoring next year.
A 2020 Harley Davidson Iron is on my wanted list next year
You mean none of that stuff is real? Damn, the movies will never be the same.
Terry, no no no! A small amount is real, like the wall climb in Bourne, which Casey explains. The majority is semi-real, with Hollywood fudging. And a little bit is complete fiction, like Black Widow sliding under the tractor trailer (likely all CGI).You mean none of that stuff is real?
Thanks a lot Dave
I’m kidding just having some fun with you. I watched the whole video. It was quite enjoyable
Happy Holidays to you all
Work has been mental busy all year but finally next week I'll be getting a break to get back to my cars. The S430 will be going back together next week then I need to decide which other long project needs putting back on road this spring
Work has been mental busy all year but finally next week I'll be getting a break to get back to my cars. The S430 will be going back together next week then I need to decide which other long project needs putting back on road this spring
I would love to see your red C124 finished up!I need to decide which other long project needs putting back on road this spring
Thanks DV, actually I do need to get that car MOTd so it can be registered from Isle of Man into my name.
I will probably make a start back at it this week as its also taking up my 500Es prime parking space in garage! Thanks for the reminder
My cars have been hibernating- some outside which sucks but what can you do. Weather still poor we are just coming out of winter so still very wet days and cold mornings.
Been starting to wake the cars up a little. Sitting for months and my S600 got a re charged battery and fired up last night 100%. Need to prepare it for MOT now soon and get it back on the road.
My 500E has been MOTd last September and covered only about 50 miles since. So tonight I thought "sod it" I can't sit in the car port forever so took it out for a drive after months and its running absolutely perfect. All systems working and good to get it warmed up and taken for a drive even if it was in light rain.
I think I will take my 500E to work for a few days now to get the whole car and fluids all warmed up, dried out and brakes going etc again properly. Sometimes sitting around does them more harm than good and this Saturday I can wash the underbody etc to keep any vestige of road salt off of it.
Again, sometimes you just need to drive the cars can't let them sit around indefinitely either. I am definitely guilty of the latter and need to use them more.
I will try to find the work / car balance again soon and start getting stuff done and cars back on road all being well.
Been starting to wake the cars up a little. Sitting for months and my S600 got a re charged battery and fired up last night 100%. Need to prepare it for MOT now soon and get it back on the road.
My 500E has been MOTd last September and covered only about 50 miles since. So tonight I thought "sod it" I can't sit in the car port forever so took it out for a drive after months and its running absolutely perfect. All systems working and good to get it warmed up and taken for a drive even if it was in light rain.
I think I will take my 500E to work for a few days now to get the whole car and fluids all warmed up, dried out and brakes going etc again properly. Sometimes sitting around does them more harm than good and this Saturday I can wash the underbody etc to keep any vestige of road salt off of it.
Again, sometimes you just need to drive the cars can't let them sit around indefinitely either. I am definitely guilty of the latter and need to use them more.
I will try to find the work / car balance again soon and start getting stuff done and cars back on road all being well.
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Nice to hear from you Joe. A long time ago I spent 3 days in Dublin and it was cold and rainy every day. Today here in SoCal we had a predicted rainstorm. The weather man said light rain around 10:00 AM. Sure enough at 10:00 AM I saw raindrops/drizzle in my pool. I told the wife we were canceling our plans for the day “stay in bed” but she got up about 15 minutes later and the sun had already come out.
I for one miss all of your resto work on the fleet. Hope to more from you soon.
I for one miss all of your resto work on the fleet. Hope to more from you soon.
After many months of work being flat out nuts I have concluded I need to get back to working at the Fleet any spare moment I can!
The first one I want to get back on the road is my silver S320. It was probably 2 years ago now that she broke a front spring and I also spotted a leaking diff and ripped CV boot.
I took it apart and then got distracted and it's sat outside since. I have a good memory so re located the hardware etc I strpped off it at that time over the weekend. The diff was re sealed and rebuilt already. I went went ahead and rebuilt both drive shafts also with all new hardware and 4x new CV boots. If one went the rest would have followed soon.
Due to sitting it will now need all brakes replaced and calipers rebuilt. I will fit New brake hoses and hard lines also.
I power washed the underbody today and jacked up the rear. The inner arches etc appear perfect condition. A few localised rust repairs needed on the floor pan but overall the usual wire brushing, por15, chassis black and waxoly will be deployed over the next month or so.
I did also order 2x new front wings as the originals were never good and are trashed now. The interior is bone dry and it started right up and ran smooth as ever so all god that way just need to breathe some life into it again and get it back on the road! That is the focus over the month of April so stay tuned for photos of the work.
Where I left off:
The first one I want to get back on the road is my silver S320. It was probably 2 years ago now that she broke a front spring and I also spotted a leaking diff and ripped CV boot.
I took it apart and then got distracted and it's sat outside since. I have a good memory so re located the hardware etc I strpped off it at that time over the weekend. The diff was re sealed and rebuilt already. I went went ahead and rebuilt both drive shafts also with all new hardware and 4x new CV boots. If one went the rest would have followed soon.
Due to sitting it will now need all brakes replaced and calipers rebuilt. I will fit New brake hoses and hard lines also.
I power washed the underbody today and jacked up the rear. The inner arches etc appear perfect condition. A few localised rust repairs needed on the floor pan but overall the usual wire brushing, por15, chassis black and waxoly will be deployed over the next month or so.
I did also order 2x new front wings as the originals were never good and are trashed now. The interior is bone dry and it started right up and ran smooth as ever so all god that way just need to breathe some life into it again and get it back on the road! That is the focus over the month of April so stay tuned for photos of the work.
Where I left off:
As a refresher (I have almost forgot myself at this stage!) This is my silver S320 back when I first got it. Then my seized S500 - the S430 and S600 followed quickly after and distracted me
The cap on the rear quarter is LPG as it was converted by PO to dual fuel. (LPG as about half price of petrol at the pumps here) I will need to get that LPG system serviced by specialist but will leave it off until after MOT.
The interior is in outstanding condition. Leather is soft and supple and not a mark in it anywhere. I sat in it for a while earlier today and recalled how fond I was of this car when I first got it! It got alot of compliments from people at filling stations etc too. Most say it is the most Mercedes looking Mercedes around and I guess that is very true!
The cap on the rear quarter is LPG as it was converted by PO to dual fuel. (LPG as about half price of petrol at the pumps here) I will need to get that LPG system serviced by specialist but will leave it off until after MOT.
The interior is in outstanding condition. Leather is soft and supple and not a mark in it anywhere. I sat in it for a while earlier today and recalled how fond I was of this car when I first got it! It got alot of compliments from people at filling stations etc too. Most say it is the most Mercedes looking Mercedes around and I guess that is very true!
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I remember now my S320 also had a pretty bad engine oil leak from the cylinder head gasket. It was running oil down the side of the engine block (Free rust proofing!)
But likely will still be dribbling oil from that faulty head gasket. The latest Head Gasket part number would be reinforced in this area. Not wanting a full resto but what do you do - can't really leave it like that even in the short term. Driveway oil stains are something I never put up with and besides that the MOT man may fail it for the oil leak.
So I might have to set aside a weekend and pull the head on it. Can split the chain and get a link to crimp back in so as I am concentrating only on the head gasket renewal at this stage. Beisdes that the engine did always run really good and super quiet startups which is rare for an M104 not to rattle a bit. Just over 100k miles on it.
I may need to factor in a visit to the machine shop for dip in the ultrasonic bath and light testing / refurb as needed. Clean head, check flatness and lap / test valves would be the height of it if I did do that however it is temping to clean it up and check straighness with an engineer's rule myself and drop it back on same weekend....
But likely will still be dribbling oil from that faulty head gasket. The latest Head Gasket part number would be reinforced in this area. Not wanting a full resto but what do you do - can't really leave it like that even in the short term. Driveway oil stains are something I never put up with and besides that the MOT man may fail it for the oil leak.
So I might have to set aside a weekend and pull the head on it. Can split the chain and get a link to crimp back in so as I am concentrating only on the head gasket renewal at this stage. Beisdes that the engine did always run really good and super quiet startups which is rare for an M104 not to rattle a bit. Just over 100k miles on it.
I may need to factor in a visit to the machine shop for dip in the ultrasonic bath and light testing / refurb as needed. Clean head, check flatness and lap / test valves would be the height of it if I did do that however it is temping to clean it up and check straighness with an engineer's rule myself and drop it back on same weekend....
These are my S320's driveshafts now rebuilt. One CV boot had torn before so both were removed for rebuilding.
By rebuilding I mean cleaning out the old grease, re packing with fresh smoo and fitting 4x new German OEM boots. I also replaced the ABS reluctor rings since they were in poor condition and swelling due to rust. All wire brushed with a grinder and given 2x coats of POR15. One final coat of chassis black will complete them tomorrow night and set aside with the growing number of shiny parts to go onto it
By rebuilding I mean cleaning out the old grease, re packing with fresh smoo and fitting 4x new German OEM boots. I also replaced the ABS reluctor rings since they were in poor condition and swelling due to rust. All wire brushed with a grinder and given 2x coats of POR15. One final coat of chassis black will complete them tomorrow night and set aside with the growing number of shiny parts to go onto it
Had to draw most of the weekend (Architecture) and went for Parts yesterday. I don't own an R230 but seem an add for a gentleman selling the whole ABC system off his since he put coils on it. (Everything apart from rear struts)
So I went and bought the 3x valve blocks and accumulators etc which looked to have been replaced in recent years not rusty or anything. Went for fish and chips on the coast about 4 miles away and randomly the same private seller was out for a walk on the coast and spotted us!
He told me to call by his house on the way home again as he had more stuff for me. Got the front struts, the rest of the parts and a NOS genuine ABC hose too free. So £120 for the whole lot - hard to beat. The valve blocks and accumulators are w220 part numbers so that gives me about 6x spare now.
So I went and bought the 3x valve blocks and accumulators etc which looked to have been replaced in recent years not rusty or anything. Went for fish and chips on the coast about 4 miles away and randomly the same private seller was out for a walk on the coast and spotted us!
He told me to call by his house on the way home again as he had more stuff for me. Got the front struts, the rest of the parts and a NOS genuine ABC hose too free. So £120 for the whole lot - hard to beat. The valve blocks and accumulators are w220 part numbers so that gives me about 6x spare now.
I did get a couple of hours working on my S320 this afternoon so I started by removing the rear brakes. Sitting around for 3 years outside hasn't done it much good but it's all surface rust only.
The brake pads etc were badly stuck so I had to use my special mini MB brake pad puller to get them out.
I got the calipers off - these are hanging by hoses at present. Doesn't matter as they will be rebuilt and all new hoses etc too. Got the discs off and the parking brake shoes I really wanted to inspect the backing plates to make sure they are not rusted through.
Thankfully not a single hole in them and the portion behind where the parking brake springs attach is in superb condition. (Sometimes here the springs pull through the backing plates)
So I got them all wire brushed with my drill and first coat of POR15. I will apply second coat to them later.
I do try to change up and test my rust treatment / underbody coatings so on my S320 I will be using 2no coats of POR15 followed by a coat of black chassis paint to all metalwork. The underside will get same treatment to rusty areas and the whole lot also finished with my usual black Waxoyl protective coating.
The brake pads etc were badly stuck so I had to use my special mini MB brake pad puller to get them out.
I got the calipers off - these are hanging by hoses at present. Doesn't matter as they will be rebuilt and all new hoses etc too. Got the discs off and the parking brake shoes I really wanted to inspect the backing plates to make sure they are not rusted through.
Thankfully not a single hole in them and the portion behind where the parking brake springs attach is in superb condition. (Sometimes here the springs pull through the backing plates)
So I got them all wire brushed with my drill and first coat of POR15. I will apply second coat to them later.
I do try to change up and test my rust treatment / underbody coatings so on my S320 I will be using 2no coats of POR15 followed by a coat of black chassis paint to all metalwork. The underside will get same treatment to rusty areas and the whole lot also finished with my usual black Waxoyl protective coating.
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@JC220 HAIL to the architects among us! If you ever want to unload a rebuilt valve block, please PM me. I say "rebuilt" because I know you will soon rebuild the spares. I think I'm a year or two off needing a front one (rear was replaced years ago).He told me to call by his house on the way home again as he had more stuff for me. Got the front struts, the rest of the parts and a NOS genuine ABC hose too free. So £120 for the whole lot - hard to beat. The valve blocks and accumulators are w220 part numbers so that gives me about 6x spare now.
Cheers,
maw
Hi Maw,
Thanks for your message!
However to a MB serial parts hoarder this is like asking an alcoholic for a beer out of his 6 pack!
Never say never though
These are some very fair points Maw!“I can only show you the door, you’re the one that has to walk through it.” ~ Morpheus
I’m just trying to help free you from your addictions, while still allowing your essential satisfactions... and am willing to pay for the privilege of doing so.
maw
I have alot of parts on order for my S320 but they are a couple weeks out at least so I'd like to proceed with head gasket removal this weekend.
This presented a problem since with no driveshafts or diff I couldn't drive it onto ramps and the back is already on Jack stands for underbody treatment.
So taking the exhaust downpipe bolts out was going to be tough!! (They are meant to be removed from below not from above) I used a variety of wrenches and it took 2 hours but got all 4x out from above and none broke or rounded. I didn't lose knuckle skin either in the process I'd say this was a great start!
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First of the parts arriving for S320 now
Got the new OEM Elring latest revision head gasket which has reinforced areas where the m104 head gasket typically fails. And also a box of Iwis chain links since I tend to split the chain and re crimp which is quick with the proper factory style tools
Got the new OEM Elring latest revision head gasket which has reinforced areas where the m104 head gasket typically fails. And also a box of Iwis chain links since I tend to split the chain and re crimp which is quick with the proper factory style tools
Cool stuff thanks Graeme! That is a head gasket kit you have there so would be good item to list on ebay for sure.
From looking up the part numbers last week I know MB have revised the m104 head gasket design at least 6 times over the years. So I did make sure to order the latest OEM part number gasket.
Usually I only get these from MB but Elring is the OEM supplier and what you get in the MB packet anyway so it's the only substitute that is acceptable. (Other brands not OEM should be avoided for m104 head gaskets)
Today was "one of those days" for sure! 2.5 hours to remove one timing chain guide pin for example.
But got the S320s head off and it had the original head gasket still as suspected. Definitely will benefit from the newest revised head gasket with copper reinforcement to where they failed before.
Cylinders all look great with zero scoring or marks and indeed still have cross hatching! Cylinder head surface is also in great condition with no corrosion.
I will clean the head up, replace the valve stem oil seals and get it back on in about 2 weeks time when the parts have all arrived.
But got the S320s head off and it had the original head gasket still as suspected. Definitely will benefit from the newest revised head gasket with copper reinforcement to where they failed before.
Cylinders all look great with zero scoring or marks and indeed still have cross hatching! Cylinder head surface is also in great condition with no corrosion.
I will clean the head up, replace the valve stem oil seals and get it back on in about 2 weeks time when the parts have all arrived.
So what didn't go to plan yesterday(?)
First was from working 100% above only removing a knock sensor wire was difficult. I could not depress the clip and pull on it at same time reaching down from above. Solution was to cable tie a cable to it, pull the white tie with pliers whilst depressing the clip with needle nose pliers. Worked perfect
2nd issue was pulling a chain guide pin. When removing them in car before I have always successfully used a m6 threaded bar, socket and washer / nut technique. Not this time!!! Broke 4x bolts off trying to pull it and it would not budge.
Ended up putting together a make shift slide hammer and even with that had to hit it as hard as I could whilst protecting the radiator with a steel plate and rags. It did come out after heating head and hamering like F. Never had one like that before.
I have since ordered a special MB slide pin slide hammer tool for use within engine compartment so I don't run into this again! (I think you need a slide hammer really the puller doesn't always work)
Third problem was splitting the chain. Turns out my de pinner tool must only be for diesel chains and was only about 0.2mm too wide. Before I noticed I had damaged a link. So to be safe I will replace the timing chain altogether. There was a little stretch in the chain so may have went that route anyway.
So yeah she put up a fight but it was off with her head anyway! Just took about 4 hours longer than it should have. Still overall quite an easy task and the water pump etc all stayed on just worked around them.
I will phone the machine shop tomorrow just to see if they can fit the S320 head in for a spa trip. (Hot tank, valve lap all that good stuff) If they are too busy I will proceed to clean it myself instead - I do not want this dragging on for months. Besides that this S320 always ran superb this was really only to address the head gasket oil leaks. But for the sake for a few extra £ would rather they took care of the head when it's off so will see what they say tomorrow and if they can take it soon.
First was from working 100% above only removing a knock sensor wire was difficult. I could not depress the clip and pull on it at same time reaching down from above. Solution was to cable tie a cable to it, pull the white tie with pliers whilst depressing the clip with needle nose pliers. Worked perfect
2nd issue was pulling a chain guide pin. When removing them in car before I have always successfully used a m6 threaded bar, socket and washer / nut technique. Not this time!!! Broke 4x bolts off trying to pull it and it would not budge.
Ended up putting together a make shift slide hammer and even with that had to hit it as hard as I could whilst protecting the radiator with a steel plate and rags. It did come out after heating head and hamering like F. Never had one like that before.
I have since ordered a special MB slide pin slide hammer tool for use within engine compartment so I don't run into this again! (I think you need a slide hammer really the puller doesn't always work)Third problem was splitting the chain. Turns out my de pinner tool must only be for diesel chains and was only about 0.2mm too wide. Before I noticed I had damaged a link. So to be safe I will replace the timing chain altogether. There was a little stretch in the chain so may have went that route anyway.
So yeah she put up a fight but it was off with her head anyway! Just took about 4 hours longer than it should have. Still overall quite an easy task and the water pump etc all stayed on just worked around them.
I will phone the machine shop tomorrow just to see if they can fit the S320 head in for a spa trip. (Hot tank, valve lap all that good stuff) If they are too busy I will proceed to clean it myself instead - I do not want this dragging on for months. Besides that this S320 always ran superb this was really only to address the head gasket oil leaks. But for the sake for a few extra £ would rather they took care of the head when it's off so will see what they say tomorrow and if they can take it soon.
I got the S320's cylinder head dropped off at the machine shop before work this morning.
Whilst I was there they inspected the head and cleaned some of the surface off. (Which I had not done yet admittedly) They noticed a very slight low spot near the oil gallery actually and said it could do with a light resurfacing.
So I left it with them and it should be ready after the Easter holidays. Unless they find anything else they plan to clean, lap / test valves, resurface and install the new Valve Stem Oil Seals. They have done all my machine work before so they will give it back ready to go and in the meantime boxes of parts for the underbody are still arriving each day
I am buying almost all the parts from Autodoc as that's the best value available here. I'd love to buy only genuine from dealer but want to budget about a grand for the parts etc to get the S320 back on the road just now. It already has all 4x new Bilstein springs and front shocks so these last 2 new gas shocks mean it will have a full new set.
Lots more parts in garage for it along with more being ordered each day but very soon they will start going on it!
Whilst I was there they inspected the head and cleaned some of the surface off. (Which I had not done yet admittedly) They noticed a very slight low spot near the oil gallery actually and said it could do with a light resurfacing.
So I left it with them and it should be ready after the Easter holidays. Unless they find anything else they plan to clean, lap / test valves, resurface and install the new Valve Stem Oil Seals. They have done all my machine work before so they will give it back ready to go and in the meantime boxes of parts for the underbody are still arriving each day
I am buying almost all the parts from Autodoc as that's the best value available here. I'd love to buy only genuine from dealer but want to budget about a grand for the parts etc to get the S320 back on the road just now. It already has all 4x new Bilstein springs and front shocks so these last 2 new gas shocks mean it will have a full new set.
Lots more parts in garage for it along with more being ordered each day but very soon they will start going on it!
One other thing worthy of noting here is the tightness of the existing cylinder head bolts.
I have read in some places that you might get away with re torquing the head bolts. But this doesn't always work hence why I want right to what I believe is the only solution on a 30 year old engine with leaking head gasket - renew the head gasket!
But it was interesting to note when undoing the old head bolts in reverse sequence that some of them were definitely not as tight as others. Not sure why this could be other than degradation of the composite head gasket material.
Have any of you removed a MB cylinder head of this era and noticed a similar issue?
I have read in some places that you might get away with re torquing the head bolts. But this doesn't always work hence why I want right to what I believe is the only solution on a 30 year old engine with leaking head gasket - renew the head gasket!
But it was interesting to note when undoing the old head bolts in reverse sequence that some of them were definitely not as tight as others. Not sure why this could be other than degradation of the composite head gasket material.
Have any of you removed a MB cylinder head of this era and noticed a similar issue?
My head bolts on both my M117 and M104 when I pulled the heads seemed appropriately tight.
What killed me on the M104 (and I had to have the machine shop do) were the cam tower bolts. I could not remove A SINGLE ONE of them. Event the machine shop had to weld a bolt to several of them to be able to loosen them.
What killed me on the M104 (and I had to have the machine shop do) were the cam tower bolts. I could not remove A SINGLE ONE of them. Event the machine shop had to weld a bolt to several of them to be able to loosen them.
Yes I had read that in your top end rebuild thread that was a strange one! My cam caps were tight but I went slow and steady to crack them loose with a 3/8 ratchet and they all came out without incident.
After breaking many previously I do now have pro quality torx and Allen bit sets which do not twist or snap this also helps considerably on removal.
I can only think that head if yours must have been off before Gerry and they overtorqued the bolts on refitting.
Some more parcels today
PS DONT buy Febi parts!! Unless you know it will be reboxed OEM parts such as this IWIS timing chain. This offers a significant saving over MB dealer prices but be warned you might get garbage too with Febi and if you do return to sender!
I know from experience what Febi parts to buy and which ones to avoid.
PS DONT buy Febi parts!! Unless you know it will be reboxed OEM parts such as this IWIS timing chain. This offers a significant saving over MB dealer prices but be warned you might get garbage too with Febi and if you do return to sender!
I know from experience what Febi parts to buy and which ones to avoid.
I got to testing a cleaning method on the pistons tonight to decarbonise them. I choose EGR cleaner since that is especially designed to break down carbon.
Along with a small brass brush which is hard enough to remove the carbon but also gentle enough to not mark or score metal surfaces in any way.
And the cylinder walls with clear cross hatching still visible after 113k miles:
The m104 is one well designed and tough engine!! I will finish cleaning all pistons tomorrow but will leave the final scrape and clean of the block deck until the day I will be installing the reconditioned cylinder head.
Along with a small brass brush which is hard enough to remove the carbon but also gentle enough to not mark or score metal surfaces in any way.
And the cylinder walls with clear cross hatching still visible after 113k miles:
The m104 is one well designed and tough engine!! I will finish cleaning all pistons tomorrow but will leave the final scrape and clean of the block deck until the day I will be installing the reconditioned cylinder head.
I got the S320s old rear shocks and springs removed yesterday. Will try to get to underbody wire brushing etc this week and keep that restoration work going.
When I sold my high miler w211 the Towbar I fitted a few years back went with it. I do need a tow bar for very occasional use clearing up / DIY around my house. But fitting one to the daily driver is not ideal since when you sell the car you lose the towbar also and are back to sq 1. So I was going to buy one for my w221 but then realised by chance that detachable w140 towbars are available cheaper (£150 cheaper) and for me this makes more sense. Since I intend to keep the S320 therefore I'll have the towbar for many years VS if I put one on my w221 chances are that car will be changed in the next year or two.
Sacrilege yes but for me this makes sense to fit one on my S320 and it is detachable so not visible in most circumstances.
So this is purchased and on way from Germany (aftermarket not MB) and I will start checking what wiring it needs to work. Probably a by pass relay to be sure it doesn't mess with the w140 electrics. My S320 also has no parking sensors IIRC so this works out well since they won't be screaming at me with the trailer on either!
When I sold my high miler w211 the Towbar I fitted a few years back went with it. I do need a tow bar for very occasional use clearing up / DIY around my house. But fitting one to the daily driver is not ideal since when you sell the car you lose the towbar also and are back to sq 1. So I was going to buy one for my w221 but then realised by chance that detachable w140 towbars are available cheaper (£150 cheaper) and for me this makes more sense. Since I intend to keep the S320 therefore I'll have the towbar for many years VS if I put one on my w221 chances are that car will be changed in the next year or two.
Sacrilege yes but for me this makes sense to fit one on my S320 and it is detachable so not visible in most circumstances.
So this is purchased and on way from Germany (aftermarket not MB) and I will start checking what wiring it needs to work. Probably a by pass relay to be sure it doesn't mess with the w140 electrics. My S320 also has no parking sensors IIRC so this works out well since they won't be screaming at me with the trailer on either!
Got my S320's head back today. Needed very little, strip, skim, clean and lap / test valves + fit new valve stem oil seals and rebuild. All valves were 100% they said No guide wear, seat pitting or any other issues all in great condition.
I did ask that they only skimmed the bare minimum off this head and they stuck to that. This the original casting mark still visible on the head so it can be skimmed more in future if required:
I did also clean the block deck off thoroughly this evening after work. That stuff was tough!! Rust and old gasket material to scrape off. They only way I could get it properly clean was to use a purpose designed engine scraper and Gasket disolver which broke it down nicely and all scraped off clean with alot of elbow grease but worth it to see a perfect flat deck to accept the newly refurbished head.
The block and pistons will get a final thorough rinse and vacuum off tomorrow morning. I also tapped the head bolt holes they did need that too:
I don't have all the O rings and sundries yet from dealer. I do however have enough to get the head torqued back down tomorrow and wrap it up in plastic until the last bits arrive for engine next week.
I am re using the original head bolts. The new length is 160mm. With limit of 163mm per MB instructions. I measured each original head bolt and all were measuring 160mm or very close to that. Certainly not near 161mm on any one of them so well within spec and safe to re use without issues. (I have done about 10 or 12 MB head gaskets over the years and always found bolts to be well within spec and zero problems after)
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