List of EPC VINs for E60 Limited Cars (Codes 957+958)

[AdamCabrio]

Germany without logic

You might be 100% right, ha ha. In some evident cases the person typing the original datacard probably consumed too much beer......: WDB1240361C130242 showing an engine # ending at 909202, come on......simply not possible. Or WDB1240361C183709 showing the order # (from Rostock Branch) starting with "0-"

 

[036]

God knows how many cars were crashed on the way to Stutgart and back, i heard stories about cars falling of trailers and so on.....Why not just change the body and leave old engine and vin numbers, why not. Who cares......
Adam, Dave, me and many others 30 years later trying to find any logic......mmmm looks amusing.

 

[weide1]

Such a messy stuff.

This might explain what Bill Noon and his BaT auctioned SL72 was told by AMG Classic, in person Oliver Kurz, that the displacement 7055 cc was wrong all thoses years.
And should be 7291 cc.

All German car registration documents and export certificates are invalid, maybe even illegal.

I cannot believe all this. To be continued.

 

[036]

Should i start an extra Thread named like " Everything what´s wrong with 124036 Data"? Any better name? And where? Wiki?? Offtopic discussions??

 

[AdamCabrio]

Should i start an extra Thread named like " Everything what´s wrong with 124036 Data"?

I would love that. Seriously, if you have time and energy to start such a thread, that would highly interest me and be greatly appreciated

 

[Rouven036]

Actually you are both, first right.. and (only maybe..) slightly wrong too

- translation of 'vor Kurzem' is 'recently'
- it is (although unlikely!) possible, that an employee at an MB-workshop/facility has 'KurzeN' as surname (and 'R.' being initial for their first-name)

I'm not saying it can't be a typo though.. and about deleting double entry, it would still make somehow sense to check whether WDB1240361C183327 has the engine no. which its data-card indicates too, IMHO

Definitely a Typo. Kurzen is not a family name. Kurz for example is.

Double entry needed to be removed... Don't forget that the other VIN has the same entry too. They always mirrored this. So there is no use anymore for this info at this chassis as the initially documented number is right.

Whoever did the entry - simply didn't do it right (I know what is the handling protocol behind that)

 

[195910]

This situation proves the importance of factory documentation, not just a Datacard print. These are very high value cars with prominent owners, its not a cheap eco-box with 20 previous owners. Documented ownership and maintenance history should be common and not a rarity.

 

[Otrebla49]

Strangely enough, it's not uncommon to find the same engine numbers on datacards of different vehicles (different VIN's). This is also the case with:

WDB1240361C161822 and WDB1240361C162390 (both showing same engine #'s on datacard ending at 009674), as well as:
WDB1240361C195735 and WDB1240361C202605 (both showing same engine #'s on datacard ending at 010288).
Same with WDB1240361C160617 and WDB1240361C135281 showing identical engine #'s - ending with 009297- on their datacards.

In all these instances, as well as in the above similarity between WDB1240361C165087 and WDB1240361C183327, it might have something to do with the fact that one of "the doubles" is listed as E60 AMG. In other words, something happened with the 6.0 liter drop-in.

In a different situation that is even more strange, the engine # ending at 010241 on datacards of these 2 vehicles seem to be also identical: WDB1240361C204258 and WDB2100551A000266. I have no explanation.

Last case has an actual explanation. As I could see at the botton on lastvin there was a coversion made - maybe internal prototype or some manager wanted to taste an E50 prior to its market release (note production date was 02/1995) - by MB/AMG, possibly when testing on which how (and which) parts were going to be needed and supplied for the volume model 'E50', but later based on the 210.072 'Baumuster' with '957-code' after this went on definitive run..??

AND! Either the 124.036 (1C204258) or the 'mule' for E50 had a M119.970 and no .974 engine no.! (tall deck - CIS ?? - EDIT, I was wrong, as only M119.960 are KE-Jetronic - Thanks again, Dave!)

..'wtah' was going on those days at the factories of MB, Affalterbach (a/o Porsche-Zuffenhausen) ??

FIN WDB2100551A000266
Model E 320
Engine 119974 12 010241
Transmission 722329 04 080870
Order Number 0 7 293 08111
Order Location COMPANY VEHICLE
Production Number 6000199
Interior 002A
Paint 1 BRILLIANT SILVER METALLIC (744U)
Release Date 1995-02-28
Delivery Date 1995-03-06
Approx. Build Date 1995-02

Code Description
002A No code designation available
005 No code designation available (looked up - it means 'UT' Versuch-Erprobung, which relates to 'Untertürkheim Test vehicle)
214 No code designation available (looked up, means ADS - adaptive suspension with 'Skyhook')
249 INSIDE AND OUTSIDE MIRROR AUTOMATIC DIMMING
260 TYPE DESTINATION ON TRUNK LID - ELIMINATION
270 No code designation available
272 No code designation available
275 MEMORY PACKAGE (DRIVER SEAT, STRG. COL., MIRROR)
280 No code designation available (looked up, means Sport steering wheel 400mm - or 390mm if intended for W202)
282 SKI-BAG
414 ELECTRIC TILT/SLIDE SUNROOF IN GLASS VERSION
471 No code designation available
510 No code designation available
540 ROLLER BLIND, ELECTRIC, FOR REAR WINDOW
570 FOLDING ARMREST, FRONT
581 AUTOMATIC CLIMATE CONTROL
600 HEADLAMPS - CLEANING EQUIPMENT
611 EXIT LIGHTS FOR DRIVER DOORS
653 No code designation available (looked up, means Sport Chassis)
673 HIGH-CAPACITY BATTERY
682 FIRE EXTINGUISHER
744U BRILLIANT SILVER METALLIC
873 SEAT HEATER FOR LEFT AND RIGHT FRONT SEATS
Record 5 Text
AENDERUNGEN AM FAHRZEUG DURCH M-AMG UMBAU AUF E 50, BEI ERSATZTEILEN BITTE AUF DAS BAUMUSTER 210.072 MIT CODE 957 ZUGREIFEN DIE MOTORNUMMER DIESES FAHRZEUGS IST AUCH ZU FOLGENDEN FAHR-ZEUGEN HINTERLEGT: WDB1240361C204258 ???? BITTE MOTORNUMMER AM FAHRZEUG PRÜFEN UND GGF. BERICHTIGEN!!
MOTORUMBAU! MOTORNUMMER: 119970 12 010241

Mercedes Benz VIN decoded at Mercedes VIN Decoder | Decode Your Mercedes-Benz VIN

 

[gsxr]

AND! Either the 124.036 (1C204258) or the 'mule' for E50 had a M119.970 and no .974 engine no.! (tall deck - CIS ??)

Only 119.960 is tall deck / CIS.

All 119.97x are LH-SFI. The .970 is for the 140 chassis and has a different oil pan, oil pickup, and exhaust manifolds.

 

[Otrebla49]

Only 119.960 is tall deck / CIS.

All 119.97x are LH-SFI. The .970 is for the 140 chassis and has a different oil pan, oil pickup, and exhaust manifolds.

Of course, you're totally right..
Was misled by the '0' and my brain instantly switched to 'pre-970' mode.
I've edited my post and added some meanings for SA-codes not being shown

 

[Rouven036]

You have found there a development mule W210 for the e50.
I might be very well possible to have there the the 97 LH engine with the 4 speed auto fitted during these early days of development.

 

[195910]

Last case has an actual explanation. As I could see at the botton on lastvin there was a coversion made - maybe internal prototype or some manager wanted to taste an E50 prior to its market release (note production date was 02/1995) - by MB/AMG, possibly when testing on which how (and which) parts were going to be needed and supplied for the volume model 'E50', but later based on the 210.072 'Baumuster' with '957-code' after this went on definitive run..??

AND! Either the 124.036 (1C204258) or the 'mule' for E50 had a M119.970 and no .974 engine no.! (tall deck - CIS ?? - EDIT, I was wrong, as only M119.960 are KE-Jetronic - Thanks again, Dave!)

..'wtah' was going on those days at the factories of MB, Affalterbach (a/o Porsche-Zuffenhausen) ??

FIN WDB2100551A000266
Model E 320
Engine 119974 12 010241
Transmission 722329 04 080870
Order Number 0 7 293 08111
Order Location COMPANY VEHICLE
Production Number 6000199
Interior 002A
Paint 1 BRILLIANT SILVER METALLIC (744U)
Release Date 1995-02-28
Delivery Date 1995-03-06
Approx. Build Date 1995-02

Code Description
002A No code designation available
005 No code designation available (looked up - it means 'UT' Versuch-Erprobung, which relates to 'Untertürkheim Test vehicle)
214 No code designation available (looked up, means ADS - adaptive suspension with 'Skyhook')
249 INSIDE AND OUTSIDE MIRROR AUTOMATIC DIMMING
260 TYPE DESTINATION ON TRUNK LID - ELIMINATION
270 No code designation available
272 No code designation available
275 MEMORY PACKAGE (DRIVER SEAT, STRG. COL., MIRROR)
280 No code designation available (looked up, means Sport steering wheel 400mm - or 390mm if intended for W202)
282 SKI-BAG
414 ELECTRIC TILT/SLIDE SUNROOF IN GLASS VERSION
471 No code designation available
510 No code designation available
540 ROLLER BLIND, ELECTRIC, FOR REAR WINDOW
570 FOLDING ARMREST, FRONT
581 AUTOMATIC CLIMATE CONTROL
600 HEADLAMPS - CLEANING EQUIPMENT
611 EXIT LIGHTS FOR DRIVER DOORS
653 No code designation available (looked up, means Sport Chassis)
673 HIGH-CAPACITY BATTERY
682 FIRE EXTINGUISHER
744U BRILLIANT SILVER METALLIC
873 SEAT HEATER FOR LEFT AND RIGHT FRONT SEATS
Record 5 Text
AENDERUNGEN AM FAHRZEUG DURCH M-AMG UMBAU AUF E 50, BEI ERSATZTEILEN BITTE AUF DAS BAUMUSTER 210.072 MIT CODE 957 ZUGREIFEN DIE MOTORNUMMER DIESES FAHRZEUGS IST AUCH ZU FOLGENDEN FAHR-ZEUGEN HINTERLEGT: WDB1240361C204258 ???? BITTE MOTORNUMMER AM FAHRZEUG PRÜFEN UND GGF. BERICHTIGEN!!
MOTORUMBAU! MOTORNUMMER: 119970 12 010241

Mercedes Benz VIN decoded at Mercedes VIN Decoder | Decode Your Mercedes-Benz VIN

Test cars are not sold afterwards, these are disassembled. Is this car registered somewhere ?

 

[weide1]

VIN WDB2100551A000266 SOLD - 1994 E60 AMG Limited, Sapphire Black/Gray, 21kkm, Japan auction | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

 

[AdamCabrio]

Last case has an actual explanation

Not very convincing to me. Why would "some MB manager" use the engine of a vehicle that was ordered by (a client from) Koblenz Branch (some 275 km away from Sindelfingen)

 

[weide1]

This goes with a 1995 SL60. It shows SL50.
Misprint for SL500?
Owner claims "Kein Tippfehler. Original Datenkarte / No typo. Original data card".

@WDB748372 I sent you a DM about this alleged SL 50.

 

[Otrebla49]

Not very convincing to me. Why would "some MB manager" use the engine of a vehicle that was ordered by (a client from) Koblenz Branch (some 275 km away from Sindelfingen)

After looking at the thread posted by @weide1 - where member Henny54 chimed in to explain the version about allegedly 'E50/60 converted after E320 being delivered' - I have some doubts whether the vehicle 'WDB2100551A000366' has any correct entries on lastvin/EPC, as appearance of the car neither inspiring too much trust whatsoever..

Maybe there are things we will never get to know about what really happened

 

[Rouven036]

Test cars are not sold afterwards, these are disassembled. Is this car registered somewhere ?

Die Ausnahme bestätigt die Regel.
It wouldn't be the first time that prototypes/development cars have found a way to escape the usual sure scrapping of such cars. That goes for many brands...
Also, nowadays such things become much more to almost impossible with the digitalisation, but in the good old days a lot of things, particularly parts, went out through the gates with a "Schrottschein" a "scrap note" that part xyz is taken as scrap by employee x, signed off by superior y.

 

[stfallet]

I have looked into this again and again over the years and here my two cents:

The 1 of 12 or 1 of 14 E60 Limiteds produced ex factory:
- This number goes way back. It was already the statement in 2004 when I got mine
- My research back then leads me to the assumption that this production count relates to the AMG Hammer which was an 300E conversion with an M117 engine to 6 litres.
- I did have with the museum a discussion about 10 years back, when they had an E60 Limited for sale, where they claimed it was researched. But I doubt the correctness.

The Model identification E60 vs E500
- Interesting is that mine shows up at the dealer in DE as an E60 while in CH as an E500.
- The explanation is that the E60 never existed in Switzerland and it was registered as a tuned E500 with a 5l engine (This was confirmed by Mercedes)
- I did look at the 45 data cards linked above and my guess for DE is that one was ordered as an E500 with the option .... and the other directly as an E60. The dealers at that time got certain production lots assigned to them, here they could configure the car but not the model, which makes this quite plausible

Identifying an E60 as factory build (i.e. prior to first registration)
- I assume that all build E60 and converted E500 will have the AMG coding 957. Else the workshops would struggle to perform the maintenance and oder the wrong parts. So a missing code will be misleading
- Interesting is code 981 (Which only applies to Germany) This essentially states that the car has no type registration / general operating permit and an individual road worthy inspection and certification will need to be performed. For sure all ex factory cars in Germany (wich is about 40 from the 45) will have this code.There is however no guarantee that this was not re-coded (And amongst the 45 there were only a few not having this code)
- You will see this on the empty part of the plate at above the radiator and in the registration documents
- This leaves for DE registered cars the final option. The dealers can extract based on the VIN the original list price of a specific vehicle. This was introduced due to company tax reasons. Aftermarket conversions will not have by definition an updated list prices. Not sure so how to access this as a non dealer and outside of Germany

Duplicate engine numbers
- I assume these are merged cars due to accidents and theft and then recoded
- The 500e/e500 was for a long time the most stolen car in Germany and brutally expensive to insure. I think I paid in 1997 DEM 5'000 per year with a DEM 10'000 deductible (and that was in Southern Germany - In Berlin it was 3 times as much)

Again, these are just my observations and two cents. In regards to the numbers, I do find it plausible that a much higher number was produced ex factory then aftermarket conversion for practical reasons like: maintenance, financing costs, insurance, availability, etc

 

[stfallet]

Here the example for the Listprice on my car

 

[stfallet]

If the car has code 981 the Labelling DE will not have a type code

 

[stfallet]

This is what code 981 means as part of the registration documents. You can see the stamp, stating that this car has no general road permit

 

[195910]

Have a look at the thread :

Thread 'How to determine an Authentic Factory E60 AMG from "Aftermarket" or "Fake" E60'

Apr 13, 2016

Hi All,

Thought I would start a thread on this, since I am noticing a large number of W124 on the market that are advertised as "E60"; many of which have questionable authenticity. The true number of E60 AMG was around 131-147 examples (please correct with exact number if available).

* This thread is not meant to de-value anyone's Aftermarket E60s.. but is solely for Historical accuracy and to determine which 124036 came out the factory as E60 AMG.

A number of methods to determine a Real Factory E60 AMG:

- Production year: The factory E60 option was only available on the Facelift...

• 195910
• Replies: 25
• Forum: W124 AMG & Tuner Cars

• 
• 

 

[AdamCabrio]

I have looked into this again and again over the years and here my two cents:

The Model identification E60 vs E500
- Interesting is that mine shows up at the dealer in DE as an E60 while in CH as an E500.
- The explanation is that the E60 never existed in Switzerland and it was registered as a tuned E500 with a 5l engine (This was confirmed by Mercedes)
- I did look at the 45 data cards linked above and my guess for DE is that one was ordered as an E500 with the option .... and the other directly as an E60

Not sure if I can follow what you're trying to say here (i.e. the comparison between DE and CH). Fact is, that of all the 45 Ltd's with the 957 code, according to the EPC none was originally ordered in CH (nor originally ex-factory delivered to Switserland). Four out of these 45 units were ordered in Austria (nrs. #14/45, #25/45, #33/45, #35/45, see @gerryvz 's listing above), two out of these 45 units were originally ordered in Dubai (nrs. #3/45 and #8/45), and all other 39 units were ordered (and ex-factory delivered) in Germany (DE). As far as I can see, the country of original order/delivery doesn't seem to play any role in the question whether the vehicle is listed in the EPC as a "type E60 AMG" or "type E500" on the datacard (although both of these types are having the 6.0 l engine originally ex-factory).

 

[stfallet]

@AdamCabrio, the thing is that there seem to be multiple database within Daimler decoding the data cards. Not sure which database "LastVin" - which is often referenced here uses. I have had mine for 21 years and took it with me from DE to CH. As the German dealer EPC decodes it as an E60 and the Swiss dealer EPC decodes it as and E500. Still the engine decodes as a 6.0l. Due to the missing "Typen-Genehmigung" - it is registered as an E500 with AMG factory tuning . On the printed data card it is an E60. So my conclusion is that the EPC has a country logic in it.

 

[stfallet]

Have a look at the thread :

Thread 'How to determine an Authentic Factory E60 AMG from "Aftermarket" or "Fake" E60'

Apr 13, 2016

Hi All,

Thought I would start a thread on this, since I am noticing a large number of W124 on the market that are advertised as "E60"; many of which have questionable authenticity. The true number of E60 AMG was around 131-147 examples (please correct with exact number if available).

* This thread is not meant to de-value anyone's Aftermarket E60s.. but is solely for Historical accuracy and to determine which 124036 came out the factory as E60 AMG.

A number of methods to determine a Real Factory E60 AMG:

- Production year: The factory E60 option was only available on the Facelift...

• 195910
• Replies: 25
• Forum: W124 AMG & Tuner Cars

• 
• 

I saw that, if you feel it better fits to that thread, please feel free to move it

 

[AdamCabrio]

@AdamCabrio, the thing is that there seem to be multiple database within Daimler decoding the data cards. Not sure which database "LastVin" - which s often referenced here uses. I have had mine for 21 years and took it with me from DE to CH. As the German dealer EPC decodes it as an E60 and the Swiss dealer EPC decodes it as and E500. Still the engine decodes as a 6.0l. Due to the missing "Typen-Genehmigung" - it is registered as an E500 with AMG factory tuning . On the printed data card it is an E50. So my conclusion is that the EPC has a country logic in it.

I see what you're saying now. That could be the case indeed: the only originally Swiss-ordered 036 with 6.0 l AMG (957 code but not a Ltd) I could find has VIN xxxC056956 and that one is indeed listed as a 500E Mercedes VIN Decoder | Decode Your Mercedes-Benz VIN
On the other hand, for originally German ordered 036's with the 6.0 l AMG engine it's a mixed bag (some listed in the EPC as E60 AMG, and some as E500 or 500E AMG).

 

[stfallet]

I see what you're saying now. That could be the case indeed: the only originally Swiss-ordered 036 with 6.0 l AMG (957 code but not a Ltd) I could find has VIN xxxC056956 and that one is indeed listed as a 500E Mercedes VIN Decoder | Decode Your Mercedes-Benz VIN
On the other hand, for originally German ordered 036's with the 6.0 l AMG engine it's a mixed bag (some listed in the EPC as E60 AMG, and some as E500 or 500E AMG).

Yes, for the German ones I assume this is the case due to order processing and pre assigned manufacturing lots to the individual dealers. The dealers had fixed allotments they could configure. So if you had an E500 manufacturing lot, you added option 957 to make it an E60. (Kind of tricking the system)

I do remember buying a W124 E280 in 1994 and the dealer had to swap with another dealer to get an earlier manufacturing lot for me.

 

[195910]

Check if the Swiss market had the E60 AMG officially offered in the price list. The German market had the E60 AMG in the price booklet.

If its not, then the Swiss cars might have all been ordered as E500s then converted to 6.0 AMG since new.