New LSD from Russia - LADA Special Transmission

[pagodino]

Seen this in the bay:
http://www.ebay.at/itm/NEU-R107-R129-W116-W124-W126-W129-W140-DIFFERENTIALSPERRE-/282216743117

Seems interesting.

I wonder how a LSD works with the ASR on? My problem is that in first and second with the manual tranny the force applied on the rear is very direct. So ASR goes on very often. If with a LSD shoud work better? As I want to reduce final drive to 3.0 or 3.27 this reaction could be worse and the LSD should be a good a idea!?

best Pagodino

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Manufacturer website: http://specialtransmission.ru/

NEW !!! R107 R129 W116 W124 W126 W129 W140 DIFFERENTIALSPERRE

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E-mail rusteile@mail.ru

I would be very happy to receive a feedback from them.

Thanks in advance. Viktor Bouchuk​

 

[Rouven036]

Re: New LSD from Russia

Of course, a lsd is a great option. To take the real advantage of it you should install a asr defeat switch. Use reliable diffs like quaife qdf5v or the wavetrac which I have in two of my cars. Sure the russian part can be a great deal but I would just let someone else be the first to find out. A shorter diff ratio increases the need of a lsd. But you can't fix all gear sets onto the same diff since the offset of the diff differs.

 

[gsxr]

Re: New LSD from Russia

Seen this in the bay:

http://www.ebay.at/itm/NEU-R107-R129-W116-W124-W126-W129-W140-DIFFERENTIALSPERRE-/282216743117

Looks like the Russians copied the Quaife design. I'd be concerned about materials used, tolerances, etc. I can see from the photos that they did not machine the spiral grooves in the axle shaft bores, I don't know how that may affect performance, but I suspect it has something to do with flow of gear oil inside the unit when rotating. Be careful out there, this unit is cheap, but sometimes you get what you pay for. Also remember that Quaife and WaveTrac both offer lifetime warranty.

I wonder how a LSD works with the ASR on? My problem is that in first and second with the manual tranny the force applied on the rear is very direct. So ASR goes on very often. If with a LSD shoud work better? As I want to reduce final drive to 3.0 or 3.27 this reaction could be worse and the LSD should be a good a idea!?

LSD works fine with ASR, after break-in. When brand new and during break-in, the 'tightness' of the LSD unit can cause ASR engagement at low speeds when turning. This eventually goes away. Normally, I don't recommend LSD for street use on a 5L as the benefit is minimal (poor ROI), and ASR works very well on the street. For any type of track use, and/or with 6L power, it makes a lot more sense to add LSD.

That said - your situation is different with a manual transmission. LSD might help reduce ASR interference at least a little bit. ALSO, and this is important, a given LSD unit will only work with certain gear ratios. The Quaife/WaveTrac work with 2.65, 2.82, and 3.06 gears only. If you want to install 3.27 gears (not recommended unless your manual trans has overdrive top gear), you either need a custom ring gear spacer, or a custom LSD unit, or the factory LSD designed for 3.27 gears (probably NLA now).

 

[gsxr]

Based on the attached drawing... it appears to use this LADA differential, you have to machine the axle flanges. Specifically, cutting off 6.5mm from the end of each axle, removing the slot for the locking circlip. I don't see any method to retain the axles in the differential; if there are none, I would not recommend this without fabricating a way to keep the axles from sliding out. Yes, the can and will slide out, beyond the gear oil seal, resulting in losing a bunch of gear oil... don't ask how i know.

When I was working with WaveTrac on the design for the 500E LSD, they wanted to do the same thing - modify the axle flanges. I had to push back on them pretty hard and insist this would be a deal-killer for many buyers, and they needed to make it work with the stock flanges and a wire spring-clip to retain the axles. Fortunately they agreed and were able to do that. The Quaife works the same way, using clips from later Mercedes to retain the axles.

Just curious, can anyone translate the text in orange highlight? I think it's just referencing the spacer needed between the axle flange and the diff, at 1.0-1.5mm, which is thinner than stock... the stock diffs use ±3.0mm spacers (adjustable thicknesses, to eliminate play on the stock differential).

 

[JC220]

Mmmm- the price does seem too good to be true. Plus the 'Lada Special' branding is most unfortunate

I would like a LSD for my 500E soon because the roads are Ireland are mostly always cold / wet so it's hard to get good traction in the 500E. Plus when I'm restoring the underside I want the Diff stripped / rebuilt by a specialist so they may as well swap the internals to LSD at the same time.

I am considering the Quaife unit because it is readily available here. Dave do you know does the Quaife unit require machining to the drive axles? Ie: would I be better with the Wavetrack unit instead?

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quaife-Mercedes-500-E124-LSD-Diff-ATB-Differential-Kit-/231672736365

 

[gsxr]

I am considering the Quaife unit because it is readily available here. Dave do you know does the Quaife unit require machining to the drive axles? Ie: would I be better with the Wavetrack unit instead?

[URL="http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quaife-Mercedes-500-E124-LSD-Diff-ATB-Differential-Kit-/231672736365[/URL]

The Quaife does not need machining of the axles either, just the correct locking clip. The axles are difficult to remove after they are clipped in place; a slide hammer may be required to pop them out. So, don't install the axles until everything else is completed (i.e., adjusting bearing preload and gear backlash via shims).

The Quaife for 500E used to be "QDF5V", which nice and simple. Sadly, Quaife has moved away from the simple 5-digit code unique to a particular differential; to a complex 6-digit code which is different for every freaking vehicle model - even if the diff is the same. Muppets! This makes it harder to figure out which exact diff you are getting, as you must rely on their catalog applications to be correct. It appears that '124501' should be correct for the E500E application (and, the same as 124500, 124420, 124320, and a bunch of others).

I'm assuming the eBay listing is showing a stock photo as the unit pictured is incorrect. Here's a link to what you should receive in the box, pic attached below:
http://www.w124performance.com/images/W124_diffs/Quaife/


Side note: Both Quaife and WaveTrac diffs should use gear oil without friction modifiers. This is harder to find than you'd think. After much research I found that WaveTrac's recommendation of Motul Gear 300 is indeed the best choice. It's expensive, but worth it. (Do NOT use Gear 300 LS, which has friction modifiers for factory clutch-type LSD diffs.)

 

[jnes]

Rising old thread again.. Question regarding the Wavetrack diff oils, as GSXR mentioned the Motul is the preferred one but are there any difference between Motul Gear competition 75W-140 and Motul Gear 300 75W-90 except the price and viscosity? Both oils are ok for the LSD?

Wavetrack website recommend that 75W-140..

Motul Gear Competition 75W140, 1 liter

100% synthetic racing lubricant based on Ester-Technology For all hypoid differentials with limited slip system, gearbox with integrated limited slip differential, mechanical transmission, synchronised or not synchronised gearboxes, transfer gearboxes operating under shocks, heavy loads and low...

wavetrac.eu

 

[szvook]

Both oils are ok for the LSD?

No. Motul Gear competition 75W-140 is made for differentials with limited slip and Motul Gear 300 75W-90 is not. I’ve been running Motul Gear 300 75W-90 for ever on the factory differential and have no complaints.

 

[jnes]

I'm still confused in a more detailed way. Wavetrack recommend both oils. If you look at here they list both ones Wavetrac® Differentials - Application List. at the end of page.

This one:

Motul Gear 300 Oil | 75W90 Gear Oil | AutoTech

Motul 75W90 gear oil is a 100% synthetic gear oil made for synchronized or non-synchronized gearboxes. Buy the Motul Gear 300 oil you need online at AutoTech!

autotech.com

And this:

Motul 75W140 Gear Oil | Full Synthetic Gear Oil | AutoTech

This Motul 75W150 gear oil is ideal for Wavetrac Differentials. Order a liter of our full synthetic gear oil at AutoTech now!

autotech.com

If Motul Gear 300 75W90 isn't the correct one why do they list that it is proper oil for the wavetrack lsd?

 

[gsxr]

For both Quaife and Wavetrac, the preferred gear oil would not have friction modifiers. This means an oil that does not state it is for "limited slip differentials / LSD".

Gear 300 75W-90 (link) has no friction modifiers, this is what I use in my differentials now.
Gear 300 LS 75W-90 (link) does have friction modifiers, and would not be recommended when the above lube is available


Gear Competition 75W-140 (link) is intended for manual transmissions more than differentials, and AFAICT it does have friction modifiers. If Quaife and/or Wavetrac tech departments tell you this stuff is fine, great, go for it. However, I don't know if there's any benefit to the thicker viscosity unless you are road racing.

 

[jnes]

Thank you Dave!

I think that I stick with similar as you use in your cars. That Motul 75W-140 seems to have same "stamp" in the bottle as in that LS oil so maybe it has some friction modifiers added.

I asked from local Wavetrack dealer and they preferred different brand (Amsol Severe Gear 75W-90 / 75W-140) and has no exact knowledge of the Motul oils.
Maybe I'll double-check direct from Wavetrack is this 75W-140 compatible with LSD.

Btw, what is the viscosity of the stock diff oil?

 

[dreaming.haze]

Based on https://www.500eboard.co/forums/wiki/?title=500E-E500-Fluid-Capacities / looks like it was 75W-85

 

[TimL]

Thank you Dave!

I think that I stick with similar as you use in your cars. That Motul 75W-140 seems to have same "stamp" in the bottle as in that LS oil so maybe it has some friction modifiers added.

I asked from local Wavetrack dealer and they preferred different brand (Amsol Severe Gear 75W-90 / 75W-140) and has no exact knowledge of the Motul oils.
Maybe I'll double-check direct from Wavetrack is this 75W-140 compatible with LSD.

Btw, what is the viscosity of the stock diff oil?

@jnes check out this discussion here. 5thscale was very adamant about using this specific oil (post 45 and on).

Wavetrac 210mm Diffs anyone looking? | High-Performance Modifications

I'm doing a Wavetrac stock order and wanted to know if anyone is looking for a 210mm diff. If anyone is interested 10% deposit MSRP is $1395.00 + tax Free Shipping with in the USA (48 states) let me know.

www.500eboard.co

He's racing his cars and is a wavetrac dealer, so I'd go with his recommendation which is identical to gsxr's post above.

 

[gsxr]

I think Dreaming is correct, factory gear oil weight is 75W-85 or close to it.

Amsoil Severe Gear does have friction modifiers and would not be optimal for either Wavetrac or Quaife, or any other gear-type Torsen/ATB.