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Opinions about collectibility of 400e
- Thread starter Rosenfe
- Start date
What is your definition of "collectibility"? Values of nice ones should generally trend upward as fewer remain in existence, but I don't know if the 400E will ever approach 500E value levels. Condition, color, and options will all affect this as well.
Congrats on the 400E purchase, btw. What color combo & options, if any? Also, welcome to the forum!
Congrats on the 400E purchase, btw. What color combo & options, if any? Also, welcome to the forum!
It’s silver gray interior. I will have it soon and can update more info. It has 130k and has been well maintained. What I mean by collectible is that more people will realize how good and powerful a car it is. No it will never reach 500e heights, but as 500e gain in price, more people are look at 400es ss a option, as I did.
I believe that there are fewer 034’s left in the world than 036’s. The E500E just briefly entered the “cheap car that anyone can afford” realm before moving on to enthusiasts mainly. They were always special.
The 034 on the other hand, was “just” a 300E with a larger engine. They were abused like crazy, and when the same costs arrived that you have on a 036, it was just not worth saving them.
But they will never be worth the same as a E500E of course. But that doesn’t matter to me at least. I’ve had the opportunity to own both a 034 and now a 036, and I love both models.
Congrats on the ultimate 90’s sleeper car!
I own both the E500 and also several 400E/E420's. The .034 is a great daily driver, without the higher insurance premiums, or worry about some cell-wielding muppet causing an accident because they couldn't wait to send that text about the newest TikTock challenge. With some minor changes (mostly switching to the Euro-spec 2.65 differential) the 400E really comes alive around town. Swapping on sportier suspension will make it handle quite well too.
Silver/gray is a nice combo! Does it have ASR or heated seats?
Silver/gray is a nice combo! Does it have ASR or heated seats?
I don’t have car yet, but I don’t think it’s got asr . Recent upper wiring harness, brakes rotors, manifold gasket, dust caps rotors, injectors, new tires.paint good, seats good, headliner good, everything works. I paid 4500
That’s a bargain if the car is in good condition! A lot of M119/W124/Das Beste oder Nichts for the money.
Hope to see some pictures of the car here when you’ve got it home.
In my opinion the 500E is a collector's car, while the 400E is an enthusiast's car. The difference in my mind is that a collector is typically looking for a car that is as original and pristine as possible. Collectors typically want things to be fairly stock, for the sake of preserving the car's collectibility and value.
Enthusiasts, on the other hand, aren't as concerned about originality, and are more interested in the usability of the car instead. Enthusiasts are more willing to modify their cars for improved performance, and they're more likely to drive the car hard and have fun with it.
Obviously these are not strict definitions, and there are shades of grey, but in general I think the 500E is a car that should be preserved in fairly original condition, while the 400E is fair game for modifications and fun.
Think of the 400E as 90% of the fun for 10% of the price of a 500E.
Enthusiasts, on the other hand, aren't as concerned about originality, and are more interested in the usability of the car instead. Enthusiasts are more willing to modify their cars for improved performance, and they're more likely to drive the car hard and have fun with it.
Obviously these are not strict definitions, and there are shades of grey, but in general I think the 500E is a car that should be preserved in fairly original condition, while the 400E is fair game for modifications and fun.
Think of the 400E as 90% of the fun for 10% of the price of a 500E.
It's a pity that Mercedes didn't equip the American E420 with 16" rims and especially the big brakes that go with them, like on the European models. The benefit is very appreciable.
the 400E will be the more affordable option for people seeking nostalgia and want the most power w/o leveling up to a E500E + and if they drive a 300/400 back to back, its night and day
My 1995 E420 is imported from German I think they only made 1,555 or something like that but idk what the value could be once it’s a classic in 1995 every thing is stock besides the E400 transmission and it reps decently i can’t complain, but if I were to add a nitrous could it handle 70 shots stock?
Cool story tho idk why this old man he was selling the car for cheap for $2000! I couldn’t believe i didn’t want nobody else to take it so the garage you saw is the old man I was working for n I trade some work for the car instead@Kfk,
WOW! A garage to die for! That would be my dream garage. I have to fight my wife to park my 500E in our two car garage. If it was any tighter I would need a damn can opener to get into it!
he was a very great cool man he let me drive it the first day I saw it
but like I was saying i already was doing a job for him n finished it, n I saw the garage n asked for a trade of work n he was with it and the garage took 4 days to finish
it was meant to be mine!!
They were all imported from Germany.
Total production of all 400E/E420 was around 20,000-25,000 worldwide. It's an uncommon car, but not particularly rare.
Unless it's pristine, stock, and flawless the value is closer to what the previous owner was originally asking for it. The 400E (there is no E400) transmission is basically identical other than possibly a rear pump which was deleted as a cost-saving measure on later models.
I wouldn't add nitrous to an engine with 11:1 compression ratio unless you don't mind the risk of killing the motor. Want it to feel quicker? Swap in lower gears in place of the stock 2.24's, and/or swap in a 5.0L engine.
Make sure it's not actually low on antifreeze... coolant level should be at the tank seam (almost full) when cold. Only get a new OE/OEM Hella/VDO coolant level switch, the cheaper aftermarket ones are garbage. The air temp sensor doesn't do much but make sure it's plugged in, located at the air duct behind the passenger headlight.Don’t make fun of my lightsit the windshield fluid light and the antifreeze light is stuck, n the check engine light is from a air temperature sensor that I need to order ASAP
In the video it sounds like the muffler fell off, might want to check that out too...
Thank you for answering my question boss
n yes the muffler is cut lol gonna get a custom made soon, and I will check out my air temperature sensor
. Appreciate you
Very difficult to say. No one predicted the crazy insane price appreciate of e500e's. I think all owners of e500e's who kept their cars in good condition just got lucky with this.
With that being said, 400e is an amazing car too and at the very least after another decade of owning it and maintaining it well, I would dare say you probably wont lost any money on it.
For example, I love my C36 but i dont see it being a collectible unless its one of those super low mileage concurs kept cars. my car is kept great 'running driving' condition.
Pretty sure the W202 C220 never had a turbo engine... looks like someone added the "turbo" badge on the rear.
And nope, there is NO simple way to add either a turbocharger or supercharger to the M119 engine. There's a reason why you can count on your fingers the number of M119's worldwide with forced induction. Can you do it? Sure, for only about $10-$20k p[us hundreds of hours of labor and custom fabrication.
Want more power? Get a 5.0L from the junkyard and swap that in. And, swap the diff from the 2.24 granny gears to 2.65-3.06, this will make a huge difference.
And nope, there is NO simple way to add either a turbocharger or supercharger to the M119 engine. There's a reason why you can count on your fingers the number of M119's worldwide with forced induction. Can you do it? Sure, for only about $10-$20k p[us hundreds of hours of labor and custom fabrication.
Want more power? Get a 5.0L from the junkyard and swap that in. And, swap the diff from the 2.24 granny gears to 2.65-3.06, this will make a huge difference.
That is true. Stern Garage finally offers a supercharger for m119 but that is mega money. I believe $15,000 USD and up just for the kit.
Good logic, makes sense to me
I doubt it, at least for a long time. If there was ever an E420 that would be collectible , it would be W210 E420 which was a one year only model but I doubt it also. What makes a car collectable is the relative number of cars vs the relative number of buyers. There are not many 400E/E420 but there are not many collectors either.
For context, the most collectible and rarest R/C107 is probably the 450SLC 5.0 / 500SLC with only 2700 made. The second rarest is the 380SLC of which only 3700 were made over a one year period. Nobody is buying them and if the 400E is 80% 500E, a 380SLC is 90% 500SLC.
For context, the most collectible and rarest R/C107 is probably the 450SLC 5.0 / 500SLC with only 2700 made. The second rarest is the 380SLC of which only 3700 were made over a one year period. Nobody is buying them and if the 400E is 80% 500E, a 380SLC is 90% 500SLC.
The 124.034 has increased in value modestly, but not nearly to the extent of the .036 for obvious reasons. Also depends on your definition of "collectible".
The 210.072 (E420) is unlikely to ever become either collectible nor valuable, despite being a 1-year only chassis. There was just nothing remarkable about it. Now, the 5.0L and 6.0L AMG versions (E50 and E60) are already commanding silly amounts, but that's a different discussion.
Yep. Supply / demand... not that many people appreciate the .034 so it's a bit of a hidden gem for those aware of it.
No exception that prices will grow modestly. As cars hit 15-20 years old, they're generally worth what they weigh in scrap. Once the majority of the bad examples are scrapped, the remaining cars will go up in price modestly as the enthusiasts who own them will appreciate them more. That's not the same as collectable. To make a car collectable, it will have to compete against other collectable Mercedes and other collectable cars.
W202 C36 and C43, R129's, V8 and V12 C140, other MB coupes and convertibles. BMW M cars, AMG cars, Fast Fords etc, etc. Collectors are not necessarily the same as enthusiasts.
Frankly speaking, I'm still baffled by collectability of the 500E as it's rare when a sedan is more desirable than a coupe or a convertible.
Me too, of course production numbers of the mechanically comparable 500E are small vs the 500SL but the price differential is staggering.
Your right 400e is mostly for enjoyment vs/collecting. People in the know aproach and say it is rare beautiful and talk about the m119 running at Le Mans that's about it.
The only advantage 400e has over 500e is more engine room. Havn't driven 500e yet?
I am interested in learning something from those who have driven both?
I have a 95 S500 4dr with body damage.. that I don't know what to do with....about 40k on new engine rebuilt under warranty. Brand new top end but it is a limo cmpared to the 400e and reverse is slipping.
The only advantage 400e has over 500e is more engine room. Havn't driven 500e yet?
I am interested in learning something from those who have driven both?
I have a 95 S500 4dr with body damage.. that I don't know what to do with....about 40k on new engine rebuilt under warranty. Brand new top end but it is a limo cmpared to the 400e and reverse is slipping.
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Sadly, the 400E and 500E have equally nonexistent engine room. It was a tight fit shoehorning the V8 into a space designed for inline engines.
You can upgrade your 500E to a 5.0L engine from the S500, but it's not plug+play... the entire oil pan has to be swapped between engines, along with the exhaust manifolds and a few other bits. Lots of work, but that motor plus 2.65/2.82 differential will give you 500E straight-line performance.
If it's just slow to engage reverse (3-4 second delay), but reverse still works without bad noises (clicking) as you back up... you may be able to just replace the reverse clutch pack. Couple hundred bucks in clutch discs and all new O-rings, but plan on a few dozen hours labor to R&R the transmission and open it up. This is advanced DIY stuff. Poke around YouTube, there are some videos covering the reverse clutch replacement.
If it's clicking or won't reverse at all, that's a bad sign - won't know how bad until it's apart.
I have two of those transmissions sitting here in my shop. Came from running/driving cars. Where are you located?
Orange county ca
I'm in Boise, Idaho. If you're interested feel free to PM me.
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