Piece of metal fell into oil separator

[Benzy Boy]

I was trying to take my oil separator out to replace it, with a hook tool, but I it was so tough to come out that the tip of my hook tool broke off and fell into the hole. It was a piece of metal about 1x2x2mm What should I do? How can i take it out? Here's a picture.

 

[Benzy Boy]

Am I totally screwed?

 

[gsxr]

Remove the plastic oil separator thingy by screwing in a long, thin sheet metal or wood screw. Then pull out the plastic piece. With that removed, you'll have to get a thin magnet or something to lift out the tip of the hook that broke off.

 

[Benzy Boy]

Remove the plastic oil separator thingy by screwing in a long, thin sheet metal or wood screw. Then pull out the plastic piece. With that removed, you'll have to get a thin magnet or something to lift out the tip of the hook that broke off.

How deep is the hole under the oil separator? and which hole do I screw the screw in?
HAHA that emoji really does it for me.

 

[gsxr]

From memory, the hole is not super deep.... however, I am not sure where the hole goes. And, I don't know if the metal bit would remain captive and unable to go elsewhere - it might, but I don't know.

 

[Benzy Boy]

From memory, the hole is not super deep.... however, I am not sure where the hole goes. And, I don't know if the metal bit would remain captive and unable to go elsewhere - it might, but I don't know.

DIY M119 engine top end work due to Timing Chain stretch

www.benzworld.org

You talked about it here in this 2012 thread for reference. Here is a photo of the hole.

The piece is magnetic
I just hope it’s sitting down there. If not I try to vacuum it out?

 

[gsxr]

Looks like once you get the plastic removed, you can use a telescopic magnet tool through the larger hole to extract it. I couldn't recall if the 2 holes went into the same cavity or not.

Vacuum also may work, just make sure you can see before & after to know if the metal was sucked out.

 

[Benzy Boy]

Well it was nice knowing y’all

 

[Benzy Boy]

Underneath is the spring
It blocks me from using magnet further down.
@gsxr Should I run the engine and hope for the best maybe it falls into the pan or filter or should I try to suck it out with a strong vacuum or take off the entire cover and take it out manually?

 

[gsxr]

Oh shoot. I didn't realize it could get into a valve spring. I would not start the engine, and do whatever you can to extract the metal piece.

I don't know if you can remove anything else to get better access, other than maybe using a smaller magnet?

 

[Benzy Boy]

I bought a suction attachment for my 6HP shop vac that will fit into the tiny hole
I hope it sucks it out
Otherwise the magnet isn't working
If you get any genius ideas please let me know

 

[Benzy Boy]

Possibly have to remove lifter and spring?

 

[Benzy Boy]

@gsxr It gets even worse because since it snapped off when I was pulling with lots of force it might've bounced around and could be anywhere in the cylinder head.

Theoretically where would it go if I ran the engine?

 

[kwontumspeed]

Magnetize your own recovery tool - small thin steel rod. You need a very strong magnet.
Slide one side/pole of the magnet down that rod in one direction down to the very tip - one direction only. Do this a dozen times ensuring that you are consistent in retracing that same path. Now turn the rod 180 degrees and flip it around, and do the same thing on the other side of the rod but with the other side of the magnet. Repeat a dozen times. To clarify, the first pass you went down one tip of the rod, the second pass you are ending on the opposite tip. Make sense?

That rod should now be magnetized and hopefully thin enough that you can bend it to shape. The strength of the pull is determined on the metallurgy of the rod itself but if your broken piece was also magnetized there should be enough jedi force there to get that piece out.

 

[Benzy Boy]

Magnetize your own recovery tool - small thin steel rod. You need a very strong magnet.
Slide one side/pole of the magnet down that rod in one direction down to the very tip - one direction only. Do this a dozen times ensuring that you are consistent in retracing that same path. Now turn the rod 180 degrees and flip it around, and do the same thing on the other side of the rod but with the other side of the magnet. Repeat a dozen times. To clarify, the first pass you went down one tip of the rod, the second pass you are ending on the opposite tip. Make sense?

That rod should now be magnetized and hopefully thin enough that you can bend it to shape. The strength of the pull is determined on the metallurgy of the rod itself but if your broken piece was also magnetized there should be enough jedi force there to get that piece out.

Good idea. It'll need to be as thin as possible but still magnetic enough. What diameter rod you figure?

Anyone have an internal view of the cylinder head?

 

[Benzy Boy]

Update: I need to know how the cavity around that part of the cylinder head looks like. Is it closed off? Can it fall deeper?

I plan to use compressed air to jolt the area then attempt high power vacuuming from a small coiled tube. Do I risk knocking it somewhere it can never be reached? Do I risk knocking it to the other side of the cylinder head or is it a closed cavity around the oil separator?

 

[timpurister]

Is this the picture what you are looking for?

 

[timpurister]

I bought an endoscope that has camera on the side and in the end. I don't know what you have that side of pond but Depstech has been really good for my use.

 

[Benzy Boy]

I made this little contraption
Sucks with 6 HP baby!!!
I hope it gets something
Wish me luck I will report back soon

 

[Benzy Boy]

Is this the picture what you are looking for?

View attachment 172166

Yes but I need to see INSIDE the hollow cavity of the cylinder head

Anyone want to cut their head in half?

 

[Duh_Vinci]

Yes but I need to see INSIDE the hollow cavity of the cylinder head

Anyone want to cut their head in half?

Man, that's tough! Unfortunately, the only head cutting can be offered is this



Hopefully you will get that little piece out!!!

 

[Benzy Boy]

Update: vacuum did lots of sucking. I got out pieces of broken oil separator but I couldn't find any metal in the vacuum drum. It might have gotten stuck in the long vacuum tube, after all it was extremely tiny.

If you had to guess, where do you think the piece will end up? It's about as big as a chia seed of steel. @gsxr @gerryvz

Not sure what to do now. Maybe I got it maybe I didn't. Let's do a vote:

React to run the engine and hope it falls into the oil pan and gets stuck in the oil pump mesh
React to remove camshaft and lifters + springs and continue magnet fishing

 

[a777fan]

I’d get an endoscope as suggested above and poke around before you either give up and run it or disassemble it further.

PS- Terry’s ‘like’ doesn’t count as a vote. Lol.

 

[Benzy Boy]

I'm going to take a gamble and run it.
How will I know if I fucked up my engine?

 

[Benzy Boy]

PS- Terry’s ‘like’ doesn’t count as a vote. Lol.

@TerryA Why do you like every message on the board by the way? Just curious. Every time I check my notifications I see I have 10 and get excited for replies but then realize it's all TerryA likes on my comments all across the board .

 

[nocfn]

have you pulled the plug and stuck an endoscope in there to view if it fell in? you can magnet it out off the piston vacuum etc. This is not hardened steel obviously.

 

[TerryA]

@TerryA Why do you like every message on the board by the way? Just curious. Every time I check my notifications I see I have 10 and get excited for replies but then realize it's all TerryA likes on my comments all across the board .

It’s just a check off that I read the thread. I read all of the threads as most of the members do.

If I think the thread warrants another emoji I will use it. Like wow! or sad or funny. If I have anything to add to your thread I will add a comment. Most users here do the same thing.

I think it shows that we’re interested in what you have to say.

Unfortunately in your dilemma I have no answer that could help and I hope it never happens to me.

Take Care

 

[Benzy Boy]

I ran the engine today
I drove it around for an hour starting easy then hopping onto the highway and giving it a good 30 minutes of 2-3K rpm.
Lifters are still ticking, but now, ALL the lifters are ticking + still ticking after high load drive when checking at idle.
Oil pressure was great, idle was even smoother than before at very nice 550-600 rpm.
Performance was excellent.
When/how will I know if that metal bit screwed me over or not?
I could smell some burnt oil from the engine bay but I think it's because my valve covers and the general area around the engine got oily when I pulled the valve covers and I forgot to clean them.
@gsxr How would you recommend proceeding?

 

[gsxr]

All the lifters ticking is not good. Are you sure it's all of them, or just more lifters than previously? On both cylinder heads now?

The oil pressure gauge reads from a sensor below the oil filter, but this doesn't measure pressure at the galleys in the head. I can't imagine an oil supply issue affecting both heads simultaneously. I am assuming the oil level is normal (between MIN+MAX on the dipstick). Really not sure what to recommend at this point other than taking it to a competent, reputable shop for additional diagnostics.

 

[a777fan]

Or alternative 2: Continue to run until KABOOM. Which may or may not happen!

 

[Benzy Boy]

All the lifters ticking is not good. Are you sure it's all of them, or just more lifters than previously? On both cylinder heads now?

The oil pressure gauge reads from a sensor below the oil filter, but this doesn't measure pressure at the galleys in the head. I can't imagine an oil supply issue affecting both heads simultaneously. I am assuming the oil level is normal (between MIN+MAX on the dipstick). Really not sure what to recommend at this point other than taking it to a competent, reputable shop for additional diagnostics.

More lifters than previously. On both cylinder heads now.
However this is only noticeable with the stethoscope. I hear very faint tick tick tick from all valve cover areas however the main loud tick is still from the driver side valve cover. That's the one I can hear audibly with my ears.
The general sound when standing outside the car with the hood open is no different than it was prior to the oiler tube change.

 

[gsxr]

OK... that is useful info. If you need a stethoscope to hear the tick, it could be normal operation. Engine internals are not silent. Bad noises are audible with the hood closed. Based on the above, I'd turn up the radio and drive it.

I'd assume you successfully vacuumed out the metal bit, if you couldn't find it afterwards.

 

[Benzy Boy]

OK... that is useful info. If you need a stethoscope to hear the tick, it could be normal operation. Engine internals are not silent. Bad noises are audible with the hood closed. Based on the above, I'd turn up the radio and drive it.

I'd assume you successfully vacuumed out the metal bit, if you couldn't find it afterwards.

I changed the oil to castrol full synthetic 5w40 euro edge just for the hell of it. It was 50% off at the local store. I still get the ticking.
I caught some tiny metal shards from the broken hook in the oil after filtering it through a mesh lining. So at least we know that's all clear. I'm surprised the tip of the hook shattered when it broke because while it was originally about half a sesame seed broken off, the shards I found were multiple bits of 1/8s of a sesame seed approximately.

 

[Benzy Boy]

UPDATE: I took off the pan today and I found a large chunk of metal from the hook about the same size I thought it might've been (1x2x3mm) and some large pieces of oil separator plastics that I broke laying in the pan. That's the end of this story. In case anyone in the future ever drops something tiny inside the cylinder head, don't stress it'll fall into the pan! I'm happy I got them out because the mesh lining on the oil pump wasn't as fine as I thought it was. It's not impossible to imagine that eventually the bits could erode enough to go through the mesh lining after several thousand kilometres.