Question about 1 of 148 AMG E60 Limited

[Manuel]

First of all, thanks for all the help in making the new book.
I can find a lot of information this way.

However,i have a question that i can still can't figure out.
On Youtube there are several videos about an e60AMG Limited from The Benz Collector Sneek ( Netherlands ).
The young man says that their car is not 1 of 12 (45), but 1 of the 148.
It is a Limited so i assume that this car has code 958 ( unfortunately i don't have a VIN ).
But would have received the code 957 later if it were indeed 1 of the 148.
In my opinion, it does have both codes but it is still not 1 of the 45. Is this correct?? I find it quite complicated

I look forward to your response.

Greetings,

Manuel Kraak

 

[036]

Well..... very good question.
There are atleast 2 oppinions on this topic.

1. If we use a blueprint, an old EPC from 1995 AND Vedoc ( not considering any later changes), we don´t see any later changes, done by MB dealers under different circumstances. So, number 148 ( 103 E60+ 45 E60 Limited) considered as correct ( as all those other numbers you saw like 951 Limiteds and so on).

2. Let´s count every code we see NOW in EPC or VeDoc..... so.....
And i have to say i´m not faimiliar with "new" numbers, would be interesting to see a difference between Old and New Testament

 

[gsxr]

I didn't check these numbers, but based on the above 2 posts, my understanding is:

951 = total 036 with code 958 (Limited)
148 = total 036 with code 957 (E60 AMG)
45 = total 036 with code 957+958 (E60 AMG Limited)
12 = fictional, meaningless number (don't know where this came from)

There could be additional 036 that were delivered with code 958 only, which had 6.0L upgrades by AMG post-delivery, so it's possible there could be additional Limiteds out there with a 6.0L AMG engine, that do not show code 957 in the datacard.

 

[195910]

Does he have the original documentation for the car? such as the service book, purchase invoice, etc..

See the thread about verifying the factory E60 AMG:

How to determine an Authentic Factory E60 AMG from "Aftermarket" or "Fake" E60 | W124 AMG & Tuner Cars

Hi All, Thought I would start a thread on this, since I am noticing a large number of W124 on the market that are advertised as "E60"; many of which have questionable authenticity. The true number of E60 AMG was around 131-147 examples (please correct with exact number if available). * This...

www.500eboard.co

 

[AdamCabrio]

Hi Manuel,

Indeed, as @gsxr says: there seems to be 45 (036-)cars having the 957+958 SA-code:

List of EPC VINs for E60 Limited Cars (Codes 957+958) | W124 AMG & Tuner Cars

This is courtesy of our member "esodnehoh" in Germany. It comes from official MB data per the EPC. The total seems to be 45 cars with both option codes originally in the data card. I would expect these to be confirmed by same codes in the VIN cards and stickers under the rear deck...

www.500eboard.co

Plus there seems to be 104 (036-)cars having the 957-code without the 958 code (so, not Limited): 103 plus the one in the header (row #0):

https://www.500eboard.co/forums/threads/list-of-epc-vins-for-amg-e60-cars-code-957-only.18869/reply?quote=271580

That makes a total of 149 (not 148, the extra one was later added by forum member @WDB748372 to his list, at row# zero).

About the 951 number of Limited's there seems to be no discussion: of which 207 were delivered in brilliant silver (744), 743 were delivered in sapphire black (009) and 1 was originally delivered in a Porsche color (viola metallic), as per another post on this forum.

To complicate matters a bit: on top of the 957 code (which is the AMG 6.0L engineering package), some cars also have the AMG suspension package (with SA-code 786). From looking at the datacards, it becomes clear that not all original AMG 6.0L cars (the ones with the 957 code) have also the 786 code in the datacard.

It's not clear where that 12 number comes from, even if you look at all the 45 ones on that list above that have E60 AMG written in the data card (in stead of something else), even then you come out higher than 12....

 

[AdamCabrio]

In my opinion, it does have both codes but it is still not 1 of the 45. Is this correct??

if it has both 957 and 958 codes, it should be 1 of the 45. Is there a way to find out the VIN of that particular car in the youtube?

 

[gsxr]

if it has both 957 and 958 codes, it should be 1 of the 45. Is there a way to find out the VIN of that particular car in the youtube?

100% correct:

45 = total 036 with code 957+958 (E60 AMG Limited)

 

[AdamCabrio]

Manuel, is this the youtube you were referring to?

The guy talking (Martin) suggests that this particular car does not have the 957 code, although he says it was commissioned by the MB factory to get the 6.0L drop-in at AMG in Affalterbach (before delivery?). I leave it to the better informed forum members for their comments...

 

[weide1]

Is there a way to find out the VIN of that particular car in the youtube?

Ofcourse, just ask the owner.

VIN WDB1240361C177837

Mercedes VIN Decoder | Decode Your Mercedes-Benz VIN

Datacard for 1994 Mercedes-Benz 500 E (124.036) - WDB1240361C177837

www.lastvin.com

 

[AdamCabrio]

Ah, this car was already in the system here:

FOR SALE - 1995 E500 Limited 6.0 AMG, Sapphire Black/Black/Red, 84kkm, €0.167M (Somewhere in Germany) | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

ADMIN EDIT: For sale again May 2020, see post #24 below. Thread title updated. VIN = WDB1240361C177837 just saw this [Japan auction] looks interesting

www.500eboard.co

So, this was an AMG conversion after having been ordered by MB Ulm Branch and later delivered (new?) as E500 Limited to MB Ravenburg Branch, probably only the 6.0 L engine drop-in was done in Affalterbach but not the AMG suspension package. That means that the guy in the youtube above talks a bit of rubbish.....= not 1 of 12, not one of 45, not one of 149, but one of who knows how few or how many were converted from the 951 (I'm not saying it's not a nice car, though)

 

[Manuel]

Thanks for all the information.
Gives some clarity that this copy is not 1 of the 149. ( but they can still park it in front of my door !!!! )

 

[195910]

The factory E60 AMG with matching engine number would be a higher premium, but there is nothing technically wrong with a DOCUMENTED AMG conversion.

 

[AMG5PT4]

Benz Collector Sneek is who bought my 1984 500SEL AMG from The MB Market

 

[Efraim]

Couple years ago in Classic Center Stuttgart there was E60 LTD for sale as part of All-Time-Stars collection. On windscreen there was a text: "The highlight of the engine and equipment development was the E60 Limited edition of which only 12 pieces were built".

Perhaps that is the source for magic "12". I think that 12 vehicles with 957+958 were originally ordered, manufactured and delivered completely within MB channels. All the rest were more or less upgraded after gate of Sindelfingen factory. This is just my guess.

Pics are downloaded from Classic Center.

 

[AdamCabrio]

Couple years ago in Classic Center Stuttgart there was E60 LTD for sale as part of All-Time-Stars collection. On windscreen there was a text: "The highlight of the engine and equipment development was the E60 Limited edition of which only 12 pieces were built".

Perhaps that is the source for magic "12". I think that 12 vehicles with 957+958 were originally ordered, manufactured and delivered completely within MB channels. All the rest were more or less upgraded after gate of Sindelfingen factory. This is just my guess.

That very same topic was discussed on here already in 2015 (including a "1 of 12" windscreen sticker by the MB Classic Center Stuttgart):

E 60 AMG Limited - Price offer 189.000 €!!! | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

Mercedes Benz Classics in Stuttgart offers this E 60 AMG Limited! Update - VIN = WDB1240361C177608 What does the audience think about it? Best regards ReVox

www.500eboard.co

Not many forum members contributing to that thread (including site honcho's) believed the "1 of 12" claim back then. I myself only recently joined this forum (I'm a rookie), so can someone please reveal if there are any new "facts" about this since 2015?

 

[AdamCabrio]

Unless there is new information evidencing otherwise, I'll stick with the wisdom of @gerryvz (see attached). I'm making a point of this, as I feel it would be a shame if incorrect information would be recycled in @Manuel 's upcoming new book.

 

[weide1]

I remember Marco Hof having a theory about the 12 E60s.
He wrote in on the Dutch Autoweek forum back in 2014/2015.
You should ask him.

Edit: Maybe it was in this thread? Mercedes W124 | "Mercedes-Benz, Die Sacco Jahren"
Iirc he posted as 500 E. That makes it a bit easier to read 170 pages.

 

[FD.]

Couple years ago in Classic Center Stuttgart there was E60 LTD for sale as part of All-Time-Stars collection. On windscreen there was a text: "The highlight of the engine and equipment development was the E60 Limited edition of which only 12 pieces were built".

Perhaps that is the source for magic "12". I think that 12 vehicles with 957+958 were originally ordered, manufactured and delivered completely within MB channels. All the rest were more or less upgraded after gate of Sindelfingen factory. This is just my guess.

Pics are downloaded from Classic Center.

Personally I have no doubt that the deeply knowledgeable sales managers of All-Time-Stars learned about '1 of 12' through a quick Google search—rather than by spending sleepless nights digging through the Mercedes / AMG archives.

 

[FD.]

Also german-car.net claimed '1 of 12' legend every time they released for sale another E60 LTD...

 

[weide1]

"1 of 12" increases value, rather than "1 of 45, 145, 245, whatever".

 

[WDB748372]

Personally I have no doubt that the deeply knowledgeable sales managers of All-Time-Stars learned about '1 of 12' through a quick Google search—rather than by spending sleepless nights digging through the Mercedes / AMG archives.

I couldn’t agree with this more. I think people just believe what they want to believe or simply use the lowest number that’s floating around because it sounds more exclusive. Even today sometimes there are inaccuracies in regards to E500 Limited numbers, E60 AMG etc. I doubt people spend too much time really digging in.

I remember some comment on the owner of one of the Japan only “E400 4.2 AMG” cars still bragging about how’s it’s the second rarest AMG of all time just because there’s some video on it.

My favorite are those “1 of 1” claims: The only one built on a Wednesday while it was raining in June

 

[Otrebla49]

Couple years ago in Classic Center Stuttgart there was E60 LTD for sale as part of All-Time-Stars collection. On windscreen there was a text: "The highlight of the engine and equipment development was the E60 Limited edition of which only 12 pieces were built".

Perhaps that is the source for magic "12". I think that 12 vehicles with 957+958 were originally ordered, manufactured and delivered completely within MB channels. All the rest were more or less upgraded after gate of Sindelfingen factory. This is just my guess.

Pics are downloaded from Classic Center.

Hello all, I'm one of the newbies here!

And thanks ton"Efraim" for making this comment which arose a vivid memory of mine.. since I have seen (and stood beside!) this very beautiful example of E60 in Oct./Nov. 2015, when I visited the MB-Museum in Stuttgart at an occasion non less than a wedding..

Family members and I were talking about how incredibly cared for (and EXPENSIVE) the E60 Ltd was.. maybe I get to find some pictures from that day, but it could take some days or weeks 'till I manage to open my old laptop-PC

Regards,

Alberto