Rant about newfangled MB's: Seat time in X204 & W212

[gsxr]

Last month I visited my sister on the east coast and got to spend some time driving their 2014 GLK250 BlueTEC (X204) and 2014 E250 BlueTEC (W212). There were a number of surprises that I wasn't expecting.

<rant>

1) MB moved the cruise control stalk BELOW the combo / turn signal switch! I mean, how stupid is this? The cruise stalk was in the same location for at least 3 decades. Really, really annoying when you are going back & forth between an older MB and newer. Don't think I'll ever get used to this. What a colossal fail.​

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2) The cruise control stalk has a new "feature" which took me a while to figure out. There is a detent in the stalk travel: move the stalk slightly it increases / decreases 1mph, but push past the detent and it changes ±5mph. Not realizing this, several times I was trying to figure out why the car was going way faster or slower than intended. Dunno how I feel about this one, I might get used to it, maybe. You have to be careful to push quite gently if you expect the usual ±1mph change.​

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3) The shift lever was moved to the column. I don't like this, but whatever. Seems the column shift is on many (most?) models as of roughly 2010, including the 164/166 chassis that I might own someday. The problem? The functionality is backwards! Push UP for reverse, push DOWN for forward. Kinda like relocating the cruise stalk, what the hell were they thinking? I found the backwards shift pattern infuriating.​

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4) If you are reversing and open the driver door with the vehicle in motion, which I do all the time when backing into a parking space... the transmission slams into PARK. omg, what sweet hell is this? I eventually figured out you must FIRST open the driver door, THEN select reverse (pushing upward, pffft), and ignore the dire warnings that you might die... but it will allow you to back up with the door open.​

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5) If you select Sport shift mode (S), this resets every time the car is shut off and next time it's back in Comfort (C). I had to select Sport every time I started the car. Why isn't this setting persistent? Google says it's related to EPA regs, since the EPA ratings are in C-mode, it must default to whatever mode the EPA tests were in. Ditto for the annoying auto start/stop function which must be disabled every time you start the car. I wonder if these settings are also persistent on ROW/European models, or if you ROW allows you to select a setting that will remain persistent.​

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6) IIRC (my memory is foggy 6 weeks later), I was not impressed with the E250 shifting at times (722.9 seven-speed). It was usually ok, but sometimes there was an unexpected harsh shift. I think it was related to slowing down and accelerating, like after you turn onto a side road. I expected better from a fancy electronic transmission that's supposed to read my mind. Car has 110kmi and supposedly had the transmission serviced at 90k.​

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7) The E250 has "dynamic LED" headlights which seemed ok on low beam. But when selecting high beam, there was a loooooong delay before high beams would engage. Then it appeared like a motor moved something, and the beam gradually raised upward. Very bizarre. And I hated the delay. Not sure if this is another "feature" (maybe adaptive high beam assist?), also not sure if it could be disabled. High beam illumination wasn't great either (see memory note above). I'd need to drive at night again and pay more attention, I only spent 30 mins driving this car at night. It seems LED's are the "upgraded" lights vs bi-Xenon? The 2014 sales brochure isn't clear. IIRC, "Intelligent Light System" (ILS) stamped on the headlamp assembly, but I'm not sure if ILS is enabled, or if that is a Euro-only thing enabled via software like on the W211? My BIL commented that he thought the X204 bi-Xenons were visibly better than the W212 LED's. I wasn't there long enough to compare. My initial impression of LED's was "meh". Maybe newer ones are better. It wasn't like the W211 bi-Xenons with ILS (enabled via SDS Developer Mode), those 211 ILS lights are amazeballs.​

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8) One or both of cars had active lane-keeping assist, which didn't work half the time (I purposely drifted across painted lines to test), and sometimes when it did work, the response was more annoying than helpful. I might get used to it, but could probably live without it. I didn't get to try the Active Park Assist. Also didn't drive enough in traffic to play with Distronic.​

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9) The seat belts on the 212 do a weird pre-tension thing as part of the PRE-SAFE® convenience function. My wife absolutely hated the pre-tension, it made her feel like the belt was going to strangle her, inducing brief panic every time. It didn't really bother me, but I am curious if this could be disabled or not.​

There were a few improvements, again I should have written this right after my seat time, so I'm probably forgetting something. The W212 analog-style fuel & temp gauges are a welcome fix to the W211's truly horrible bar graphs. The 204 and 212 both default to displaying vehicle speed in large numbers in the center display, which is fabulous... the 211 required pressing a bunch of buttons (every time you start the car!) to display MPH in the center, and the number is small & not that easy to read for old farts with sub-par vision. Factory backup cameras are nice. Overall there wasn't much on the 212 which made me think "wow, I sure like this better than the 211!". Not that I own a 211, our newest MB is still a 1997 W210.

</rant>

 

[Jlaa]

Wow what a rant about newfangled, I mean, decade old MBs!

To be fair, for number 3, isn’t that how old column shift automatics operated? Move the lever up for park and down for D, 2, 1 ?

-Fellow most-modern-w210 owner.

 

[szvook]

@gsxr There’s always this option and with no surprises…

 

[gsxr]

Wow what a rant about newfangled, I mean, decade old MBs!

Hey, 2014 is BRAND new to me!

To be fair, for number 3, isn’t that how old column shift automatics operated? Move the lever up for park and down for D, 2, 1 ?

Yes but. The old column shifts moved down from P --> R --> N --> D where P was at the top of the column shift movement.

Maybe (?) my brain would have handled it better if the MB column shift was:

P
R
N
D

... or something like that? Putting P/N in between is confusing to me, but pushing up for reverse and down for forward just seems very non-intuitive.

For those who haven't driven a recent column-shift MB, here's what it looks like:

 

[WDB748372]

I recently had to buy a daily after my trusty Jetta was totaled by a dump truck. I started looking at W211 & 2012+ W204/W212 and wasn't really all that impressed with the W212 either. The interior hasn't held up well at all imo. Beyond the buttons and wood, almost all cars I looked at had torn driver seats.

3) The shift lever was moved to the column. I don't like this, but whatever. Seems the column shift is on many (most?) models as of roughly 2010, including the 164/166 chassis that I might own someday. The problem? The functionality is backwards! Push UP for reverse, push DOWN for forward. Kinda like relocating the cruise stalk, what the hell were they thinking? I found the backwards shift pattern infuriating.

I don't think I could ever get used to the shifter column. It seems too out of place although to Jlaa's point the functionality didn't confuse me as much.

8) One or both of cars had active lane-keeping assist, which didn't work half the time (I purposely drifted across painted lines to test), and sometimes when it did work, the response was more annoying than helpful. I might get used to it, but could probably live without it. I didn't get to try the Active Park Assist. Also didn't drive enough in traffic to play with Distronic.

These seem to be more of an annoyance than useful. I couldn't tell if one of the cars I drove with the blindspot monitoring feature was faulty but it seemed to be doing its own thing. Definitely not enough for me to trust it.

9) The seat belts on the 212 do a weird pre-tension thing as part of the PRE-SAFE® convenience function. My wife absolutely hated the pre-tension. It didn't really bother me, but I am curious if this could be disabled or not.

It might be. I remember coding little things on a friend's W212 with some software that was installed on my Xentry/C4 laptop. Vediamo or Monaco? Something along those lines. I changed the turn signal count from the default 3 to 5, adjusted the fog light brightness etc. There may actually be tweaks to enable/disable certain things.

 

[gsxr]

I recently had to buy a daily after my trusty Jetta was totaled by a dump truck. I started looking at W211 & 2012+ W204/W212 and wasn't really all that impressed with the W212 either. The interior hasn't held up well at all imo. Beyond the buttons and wood, almost all cars I looked at had torn driver seats.

The W211 had terrible interior longevity... almost all 211 seats end up splitting / tearing. The exception seems to be the AMG interiors, which were made of something more robust. I believe the 212 is better than the 211 but may still not be up to the levels of the 124 (or even 210).

I don't think I could ever get used to the shifter column. It seems too out of place although to Jlaa's point the functionality didn't confuse me as much.

I think we'd eventually get used to it, but still be irritated every time. We might eventually get an X166 (GL/GLS) which has the column shift, but that's likely a few years away.

It might be. I remember coding little things on a friend's W212 with some software that was installed on my Xentry/C4 laptop. Vediamo or Monaco? Something along those lines. I changed the turn signal count from the default 3 to 5, adjusted the fog light brightness etc. There may actually be tweaks to enable/disable certain things.

A number of items can be tweaked with DAS Developer Mode... quite a few nice upgrades available on the 211. I believe the 212 forces Xentry and I've never owned a 212, so I'm not sure how to execute similar tweaks. My understanding is that Vediamo is the engineering-level tool and you have to be extremely careful not to brick whatever module you are tweaking. There's apparently no safety net, nor an "undo" function. Monaco is related (more for diagnostics?), however I'm not sure of the differences between Vediamo and Monaco. I do know that Vediamo is sort of Developer mode on steroids.

 

[WDB748372]

The W211 had terrible interior longevity... almost all 211 seats end up splitting / tearing. The exception seems to be the AMG interiors, which were made of something more robust. I believe the 212 is better than the 211 but may still not be up to the levels of the 124 (or even 210).

I'm sure it's the same for the W212 where AMG interiors hold up better than the base models. I generally saw what the VINs decoded as "imitation leather" and they were all torn. Bit of an extreme example but...



I'm not sure if all luxury trim W212 had these but these seats seem to have held up better.

A number of items can be tweaked with DAS Developer Mode... quite a few nice upgrades available on the 211. I believe the 212 forces Xentry and I've never owned a 212, so I'm not sure how to execute similar tweaks. My understanding is that Vediamo is the engineering-level tool and you have to be extremely careful not to brick whatever module you are tweaking. There's apparently no safety net, nor an "undo" function. Monaco is related (more for diagnostics?), however I'm not sure of the differences between Vediamo and Monaco. I do know that Vediamo is sort of Developer mode on steroids.

Just had a look back and it was Vediamo. Don't think I used Monaco then, it was one or the other. It sure wasn't straight forward by any means.

 

[janos_z]

I'm a huge fan of the classic Mercedes cruise control stalk design, which persisted for decades. Sad to say on the w213, the cruise control is now operated from steering wheel buttons. RIP, old stalk.

 

[Bogeyman]

OK Dave, some fightin' words here...
I'm a current owner of 2 W212 E550 (4.7L Twin turbo) 4matics in addition to a w211 E320 Bluetec and a previous w210.
Unfortunately your experience was with a facelift version that changed the cruise stalk location, added start stop, etc.
My lane assist works fine, but I seldom use it.

My main positives though are 1. I love the cut/raked look of the body. To me it is the best since the W124s and better than any since.
2. The stealthy persona, not unlike the 500E (I won't say wolf in sheep's clothing).
3. When you want to go fast, it's no muss, no fuss. The 4matic plants, and it goes. Contemporary tests were 4.3 0-60 and 12.8 quarter.

I like the W211, but not as much. The W210 was OK but definitely third in this ranking.

 

[R129 UK]

@gsxr Ha ha, I have a 2010 W164 and my 1998 SL and can relate to some of these “observations”…

2 - this puzzled me for a while after first owning the ML. In my SL on the rare occasions I use cruise I hold the lever in position until the desired speed is achieved.

3 - never really had a problem with this except I try to use the indicator stalk to select D etc. in the SL when I’ve not used it for a while.

6 - my ML’s shift is a bit crap and it also has what I call “roundabout lag” where you accelerate into a small gap and initially nothing much happens and then suddenly it tries to rip your head off! I had a similar thing on a previous XC90.

9 - on the ML this can be deactivated via the dash display settings. I have it on but it’s pretty pointless if I’m honest.

 

[maw1124]

The shifter column, putting the car in Sport, Sport + or "Individual" and turning off the engine off function, you get used to ... it all becomes one startup sequence every time... ask me how I know... we've owned every E class since 2010 I think. I do the same in the M3 and S55 every time I get in them too, so no big deal -- Sport mode, Manual mode, traction on or off, let's go. No engine off function, which helps.

Now the fact that the engine and transmission have different plans for those various modes that they don't seem to be sharing with each other or you, and the fact that they'll conspire to override your Manual paddle shifting mode at unannounced times, well I never got used to that, which is why most of the time we're in the S55.

If I have to drive, let me drive a car that lets me actually, you know, drive the car.

Good tip about backing up with the door open though... never knew about that one.

Cheers,

maw

 

[LWB250]

@maw1124 brings up another one on my W164 that makes me crazy - the paddle shifters. I don't see a purpose in a vehicle like that, but more often than not, I've been going down the road and had to make a sudden lane change, for example, and hit one of the paddles when I grab the wheel. Took me a while to figure out that by continuing to punch them until it gets to "6" will put it back in "D" again. Ugh.

 

[JC220]

I never liked the w204s, cheap chassis and they rust like mad here! Even 2014 cars require complete subframe replacement due to severe structural corrosion!

I don't like w212 interiors either, very square and boxy.

I did just purchase a replacement daily driver which is a 2017 W205 C220D with factory AMG styling, wheels etc and the 9 speed transmission. That car drove really nicely the transmission is amazing. Haven't picked the car up yet I'll update my owners thread later this week with pics and details when I get it home.

I also need to rebuild the transmission in my w221 S320 as it lost gears last week.

 

[Melville]

My wife has a 2011 E550 (the last of the 5.5L normally aspirated V8s for the W212). Most of the things you point out don't bother me, either because I don't use them or I'm just used to them.

I know this makes me an outlier, but I hate cruise control. I never use it. Maybe once on the E550, just to test it out. Column shifter hasn't bothered me, but I can't say whether it's normal or not since the last car my family owned that had one was the early 80s Pontiac Phoenix my car had when I was a kid. Out of habit, I put it in Sport mode as soon as I get in, so that doesn't bother me. The interior has held up really well--our car has the seats in the bottom picture of post 7 (but we did get the interior wood replaced under warranty because it was improperly coated from the factory and faded quickly). I find it easier to drive at night than my W124s because the headlights are so much brighter. The beam moving thing always seemed like a gimmick to me, but hasn't really bothered me.

I do share some of your complaints. I don't like the transmission, as it annoys me that this car, with a 7 speed and more HP and torque than my 500E, usually feels slower than the 500E because it's like the car has to come back from a smoke break to get into a lower gear (even in sport mode). And I hate the seat belt pre-tensioning thing, which always seems to activate as I'm reaching for something. Also, our car is an airmatic, with a button to raise the car below where the sport/comfort suspension setting is. Somehow, whenever my mother-in-law visits, she always finds a way to press that unintentionally. Drives me nuts (but, really, this is a much longer conversation...).

Out of the E550, my 500E, or my 1994 wagon, if I had to choose which car to drive for pleasure and comfort, the 500E will always win. But I like the E550 too. In fact, I think we're days away from having that car for 10 years, and it has been a good car the entire time.

 

[maw1124]

For me, since @gsxr rant triggered me to think too much about this, if they let M mode be "pure" the cars would be OK. The mistake seems marrying engine, transmission AND suspension characteristics into each mode. If they let you control your own transmission characteristics by selecting M, until you deselect it or the car turns off, the rest I think would be OK. But since that's buried in 3 way computer code, it's probably impenetrable. I'd expected some TCU tune would have addressed this by now, but I guess it doesn't exist. Or at least I haven't found it, not that I've been looking.

maw

EDIT... for example, on my M3, I can manage Sport Mode and Transmission Shifts (speed + force), through individual buttons but the suspension is set from the factory to permanent stiff... so if MB would just liberate the transmission from the rest, they will have actually done something remarkable by having the engine and suspension work harmoniously... that's why I think full M mode would be the fix.

 

[Melville]

For me, since @gsxr rant triggered me to think too much about this, if they let M mode be "pure" the cars would be OK. The mistake seems marrying engine, transmission AND suspension characteristics into each mode. If they let you control your own transmission characteristics by selecting M, until you deselect it or the car turns off, the rest I think would be OK. But since that's buried in 3 way computer code, it's probably impenetrable. I'd expected some TCU tune would have addressed this by now, but I guess it doesn't exist. Or at least I haven't found it, not that I've been looking.

maw

EDIT... for example, on my M3, I can manage Sport Mode and Transmission Shifts (speed + force), through individual buttons but the suspension is set from the factory to permanent stiff... so if MB would just liberate the transmission from the rest, they will have actually done something remarkable by having the engine and suspension work harmoniously... that's why I think full M mode would be the fix.

Whenever I drive my wife's E550, I put the (Airmatic) suspension in Comfort and the transmission in Sport. As mentioned, the transmission still leaves something to be desired, but I have no complaints about the suspension. It's nice that these are separate, in her car at least.

 

[Jlaa]

I don't like the transmission [in the w212] , as it annoys me that this car, with a 7 speed and more HP and torque than my 500E, usually feels slower than the 500E because it's like the car has to come back from a smoke break to get into a lower gear (even in sport mode).

Yes!!!!!! I feel like this is a super under-appreciated aspect of the w124 E500E - immediacy in throttle response at speed due to lack of a lockup function for the torque converter.

Plenty of folks, me included, rightly criticize the 722.3's sluggishness in downshifting, but this immediacy in throttle response, I think, totally makes the character of the car.

 

[gsxr]

Plenty of folks, me included, rightly criticize the 722.3's sluggishness in downshifting, but this immediacy in throttle response, I think, totally makes the character of the car.

Most of the time, critics of the 722.3 downshifting (or, part-throttle upshifting) need to look in the mirror for the root cause of the problem: they are not using the gearshift to manually control shifting, as MB intended. Now, if they are referring to the speed of the shift after the manual command via the console lever, that's different... and yeah, the 722.3 isn't lighting quick to change cogs. But it doesn't really need to be.

 

[JC220]

Yes!!!!!! I feel like this is a super under-appreciated aspect of the w124 E500E - immediacy in throttle response at speed due to lack of a lockup function for the torque converter.

Plenty of folks, me included, rightly criticize the 722.3's sluggishness in downshifting, but this immediacy in throttle response, I think, totally makes the character of the car.

With my w221 down and awaiting my new to me w205, I am driving my 500E to work this week.

My work commute is approx 25 minutes and over a mountain. Very scenic area actually, the Sperrin mountains.

My 500E is a delight to drive around the sharp curves and bends. The throttle response of the n/a V8 is instant and eager. It feels like a very nimble car with the E60 suspension. Corners like a go kart and nice growl from the fox back box

 

[cole67]

I bought a W212 E350 for my wife 10 years ago and it's now my daily driver after purchasing a 17 X166 GLS 550 for her 3 years back.

I really like the E350 but it did take some time to get used to the stalk shifter but over time I found it to be very intuitive to operate. Agree the door open while in drive placing the tranny in park is a PIA. Learned the hard way while backing out of the driveway in the fog at a good clip and locked her up good. 7 speed has been dependable as has the 276 engine with 150K on the odometer. Although there is no replacement for displacement!

Vehicle was optioned with the Bi-Xenon headlights with active curve. Great lights but could do without the curve feature when I looked at replacement cost...about $1300 a light. Does have a door in front of the bulb that lifts for high beams. I think Pre-tension seatbelts can be disabled. Saw this on the X166 command feature. My only major complaint was seat comfort. I changed the front seat bottoms to a 2016 style with fore and aft seat stitch vice side to side which shows above as a luxury trim model. What a difference. I should disclose I had back surgery in 1990. Overall great car.

X166 GLS 550 with the twin-turbo V-8 and the 9 speed is a rocket. Big step up from the GL 7speed in my humble opinion.

 

[R129 UK]

A gripe I have with the W164 chassis is the A pillars are huge and can completely obscure pedestrians and other objects.

 

[ace10]

If you drive an W212 AMG, the shifter is on the console, and is arranged in a logical manner.

 

[Melville]

A gripe I have with the W164 chassis is the A pillars are huge and can completely obscure pedestrians and other objects.

This is my gripe with every modern car. In the name of safety, they have huge A, B and C pillars. Which means the driver can't see as well. Which means more drivers are hitting more pedestrians. But all in the name of safety.

 

[gerryvz]

As the new owner of a W211 sedan, from what I’ve read the W211 is an improvement on the 210 in pretty much all ways, and arguably (depends on the person) is preferred over the 212. Some reports say that the 211 interior quality is better than the 212?

Some folks like the 211 styling better than the 212, others hate the 211 so I guess that is subjective. Personally I prefer the more character-ful lines of the 211 over the more angular/boxier 212. Even when they first announced and showed the 212, the exterior design didn’t move me.

That said, honestly the 212 feels like an evolution of the 211 to me, overall, rather than a huge step forward. The gap between the 210 and 211 feels larger to me than that of the 211 to the 212. I could be wrong on this, though.

Definitely on the 211 the AMG models have demonstrably better interior materials quality than non-AMG models. Dunno is that is also true on the 212, but I’m assuming that is also true.

To me the 211 still maintains a fair bit of the overall familiarity of controls and layout with the 124, so it was easy to adapt and learn it when I bought mine.

As far as the speed display in the center of the cluster gauge, I have my 211 set to display speed in large numbers at the center. It’s just a setting you can do using the steering wheel buttons. You can also display it in smaller characters in the status line at the bottom of the gauge, too.

There are tons of tweaks and nuances on the 211 as far as settings. It’s almost maddening to get things set up as you want them, and takes a long time. As in multiple, multiple sessions to get right.

I haven’t even gotten into the STAR C3 / XENTRY / Developer Mode tweaks for it yet. This winter I will do that. This weekend I am installing a factory W211”Yurro” warning triangle in the trunk. All parts that are unobtanium in the US / comm-blocked through US dealers.

That said I’ve been very happy with my 211 so far and intend to keep it. It’s a nice companion to my E500. I’m glad I bought the 211.

I seem to recall that @jhodg5ck prefers the 211 overall to the 212.

 

[gsxr]

That said, honestly the 212 feels like an evolution of the 211 to me, overall, rather than a huge step forward. The gap between the 210 and 211 feels larger to me than that of the 211 to the 212. I could be wrong on this, though.

I've owned several 210's over 12+ years, and in the past owned a 211 for several years. I'd agree with the above... 211 was a revolution vs 210, but the 212 is an evolution of the 211. The 211 also comes with at least one order of magnitude additional complexity vs the 210 for diagnostics / repair, with a plethora of computer modules, and SCN coding on some modules as well. I think the 212 is incrementally more complex vs the 211.

 

[Seangbadee]

OK Dave, some fightin' words here...
I'm a current owner of 2 W212 E550 (4.7L Twin turbo) 4matics in addition to a w211 E320 Bluetec and a previous w210.
Unfortunately your experience was with a facelift version that changed the cruise stalk location, added start stop, etc.
My lane assist works fine, but I seldom use it.

My main positives though are 1. I love the cut/raked look of the body. To me it is the best since the W124s and better than any since.
2. The stealthy persona, not unlike the 500E (I won't say wolf in sheep's clothing).
3. When you want to go fast, it's no muss, no fuss. The 4matic plants, and it goes. Contemporary tests were 4.3 0-60 and 12.8 quarter.

I like the W211, but not as much. The W210 was OK but definitely third in this ranking.

As an owner of both a 1995 W124 and a 2011 E350, the differences in quality are striking. From the materials used in the interior to the suspension and overall build, the contrast is clear. My 1995 W124 is still rock solid after nearly 30 years, very minimal rust spots underneath, while the "newer" E350 has had its share of issues. The seats feel cheap, with the driver’s seat splitting at the seams, the rear subframe is prone to rusting, no thanks to probable cost-cutting (so much so that Mercedes had to extend the warranty on it to 20 years with unlimited mileage, regardless of ownership history), and the road noise is quite noticeable, not sure if this is due to my run flats. I went to change the transmission fluid and discovered the oil pan is badly rusted, which is a sharp contrast from my W124 which still uses the original transmission pan. The front shocks are shot at 100,000 miles, and I can't seem to track down replacement bump stops for the rear. While I don’t regret buying the E350, my W124 with its restored suspension is, without a doubt, the more enjoyable ride.
One day, I’d love to get my hands on a W115 and restore it just for the sheer joy of the project. However, unless Mercedes sees a significant improvement in its build quality, I wouldn’t consider buying another one. These days, it seems like Lexus offers better overall quality in their vehicles.

 

[Seangbadee]

As an owner of both a 1995 W124 and a 2011 E350, the differences in quality are striking. From the materials used in the interior to the suspension and overall build, the contrast is clear. My 1995 W124 is still rock solid after nearly 30 years, very minimal rust spots underneath, while the "newer" E350 has had its share of issues. The seats feel cheap, with the driver’s seat splitting at the seams, the rear subframe is prone to rusting, no thanks to probable cost-cutting (so much so that Mercedes had to extend the warranty on it to 20 years with unlimited mileage, regardless of ownership history), and the road noise is quite noticeable, not sure if this is due to my run flats. I went to change the transmission fluid and discovered the oil pan is badly rusted, which is a sharp contrast from my W124 which still uses the original transmission pan. The front shocks are shot at 100,000 miles, and I can't seem to track down replacement bump stops for the rear. While I don’t regret buying the E350, my W124 with its restored suspension is, without a doubt, the more enjoyable ride.
One day, I’d love to get my hands on a W115 and restore it just for the sheer joy of the project. However, unless Mercedes sees a significant improvement in its build quality, I wouldn’t consider buying another one. These days, it seems like Lexus offers better overall quality in their vehicles.

I took my 2011 W212 to MB Fayetteville, NC, to have the subframe checked under warranty, and thankfully, there are no rust issues.

 

[Melville]

I recently had the subframe replaced on my W212. Only 50kmi (though I know this isn’t a mileage thing). There was a rust hole about an inch big. Thankfully the warranty took care of the cost.

 

[nocfn]

I bought a 2019 E450 Bi Turbo V6 Cabriolet with 6 miles in December of 2018. I love this car, but it is my wife's daily. The only thing that I do not like about it is that it has directional tires and of two different sizes. This was one car that was not part of the "honda-zation" of the brand's decision to be all things for all buyers.....which I think meant that no more cabriolet unless it was the SL and everything will be basically the same.

When they pick it up for service however we never seem to get an equivalent vehicle as a loaner. They all seem to be very pedestrian, basic mercedes cars that rival honda or toyota brands. I think they have abandoned this thinking (along with the kenny kilowatt power train obsessions).

Rant over.

 

[geraniumtr]

Nocfn, I work part time as a valet driver for our local MB dealer. We have a small fleet of daily loaners for customers. Vehicles are not more than 2 years old and comprise C300, GLB, A220, GLC300, a few GLS 450 and maybe one S class. Main stream vehicles. I’m not sure if MB or dealers determine which vehicles are used as loaners.
Some customers do complain but hey they’re getting a free car delivered to their home to use that’s new or almost new and maybe pedestrian but steps up from a Honda or Toyota



Regards,

Peter

 

[nocfn]

Nothing is free. Your sentiment is noted however.

Here is the part I left off.... The serviced car was returned to us with not just a low fuel light, but a flashing low fuel light. While I would not be concerned - my wife was waiting for the late delivery of her serviced vehicle she had an appointment based on the agreed delivery. The exchange was a bit chaotic, the valet was visibly shaken and over 40 minutes late. She reportedly was agitated and quite anxious to leave. And while your personal attention, I bet exceed standards - this last event did not. The vehicle sputtered and gasped with fuel starvation as she made it into the gas pump.

I asked the service advisor why the car should ever be delivered in such a state... and he rightly said it should never be. My dealer is 27 miles away via 70 mph speed limit highway. I asked that they note the record that the tank gets filled at the dealer and I get billed if the light is on. They also perform the annual state inspection as it corresponds to the scheduled service checks. They have since added that the valet verifies the gas level before accepting the vehicle for delivery. So it should not happen again. We use the valet service, it is a huge benefit. This last time was fail, uncharacteristic but still a fail. It is my hope that the circumstance was one off, mistakes happen. I am inclined to note the miles before and after and take a trust but verify stance. I complete every service review and focus on positives, even if it is just routine stuff.... everyone gets a positive review. This, I hope is a one off circumstance. Over the years, we have had one similarly appointed vehicle loaned to us. We get spoiled of course.

 

[gerryvz]

The local MB dealer here in Annapolis has an Enterprise Car Rental desk on site in their service department, and I believe they use Enterprise for "loaner" cars for owners whose vehicles are being serviced for non-waiting jobs. I could be wrong about this, but I do not believe the "service loaner" cars are MB models, but rather American, Japanese or Korean cars. I walk right by this desk on a weekly basis, walking to the parts counter to pick up my weekly MB parts order. About 90% of the time nobody is sitting at this desk.

I recall seeing this same setup at MB Houston North, when I lived there (this may have changed in the 7+ years since I moved to Maryland). And if my memory serves me, also at Don Rasmussen MB of Portland (Oregon) before I moved to Houston in 2008.

I have received new/near-new service loaner vehicles on numerous occasions -- even for periods of 3-4 hours -- from our local Lexus dealer when we have our Lexi in for service. There is no rhyme or reason to what vehicle is provided -- for taking our current IS500 or former IS350 models in for service/maintenance, I have received ES sedan models, NX SUVs and RX SUVs. Not basic models, but also not the fanciest models that Lexus makes.

Except in freezing ambient weather temperatures (when Lexus shuts down their car wash), our Lexus cars have ALWAYS been returned to us fully washed and cleaned inside and out, as well as the gas tank being filled. Our Lexus dealer is within walking distance (15 minutes walk; 5 minutes drive) of my house.