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Tools for rear suspension R&R
- Thread starter Kyiv
- Start date
Rear suspension links shouldn't require any special tools to remove or replace, unless you are removing the rear subframe too. There is a press tool for the rear carrier bushing (see the HOW-TO on this), but to remove the install the five links and lower control arm themselves, no special tools should be required. It's important to follow the manual closely when doing this job, particularly when tightening the lower control arm bolts, and so forth.
To throw a wrench in the monkeyworks:
Generally, the 5 links last a very long time, and the ROI for replacement is on the low side. If doing a complete subframe refurb, it makes sense. But if not, I'd consider replacing the 4 round subframe-to-body mounts first, before the 5 links on each side. The 4 round bushings are usually more worn. And the wheel carrier lower support joint is often the most-worn item on the entire subframe. Least worn is usually the diff mounts, I've never replaced V8 subframe diff mounts (yet).
Generally, the 5 links last a very long time, and the ROI for replacement is on the low side. If doing a complete subframe refurb, it makes sense. But if not, I'd consider replacing the 4 round subframe-to-body mounts first, before the 5 links on each side. The 4 round bushings are usually more worn. And the wheel carrier lower support joint is often the most-worn item on the entire subframe. Least worn is usually the diff mounts, I've never replaced V8 subframe diff mounts (yet).
@gsxr. I've replaced joint support bushings not to long ago. They were indeed completely done at ~120k mi. I have new lemforder links on hand and replacing them is a job an inexperienced person, such as myself can manage in my driveway. I do have new MB subframe bushings on hand as well, but will have to pay someone - once I find that someone - whom I can trust to do the job correctly. I just moved to a new state. It's a bigger job than what I'm comfortable at the moment with
Got it! FWIW... the subframe bushings are DIY'able with some creativity, even without the special tools. But plan on a full weekend if you try it. The 5 links are more of a nuisance than difficult. Bolt access is tight in some areas, and it's a PITA getting the axle level to tighten the bolts... I normally remove the spring for this, which in itself isn't fun.
FWIW, if you do intend to do wholesale replacement of the 5-link, be aware that MB no longer supply the kamax hex head bolts. If you are buying a "kit" such as the lemforder one, they are all now using XZN (triple square) socket screw galvanized bolts and these are a massive PITA compared to the originals. If you are buying Genuine MB parts, be aware that they are all superceded to these new XZN bolts (have been for some years now).
Also there are some inconsistencies between 10mm and 12mm bolts used on some of the links and the new replacements, MB used shims in these bushes originally, so if you see shims, be aware of which location they came fromand either reuse the 10mm bolt, else you are reaming/drilling the subframe to fit the new 12mm bolt. Dropping the subframe is where this will ultimately take you.
This is a common occurrence on 201/124/129 and 210's which use these 5-link parts. I think there are some 202/3's which also have the issue with the 10/12mm bolt differences, but I have not personally experienced this. There may also be R170 as well. Don't quote me on that. These bushes and arms were used on many models in various combinations.
Also there are some inconsistencies between 10mm and 12mm bolts used on some of the links and the new replacements, MB used shims in these bushes originally, so if you see shims, be aware of which location they came fromand either reuse the 10mm bolt, else you are reaming/drilling the subframe to fit the new 12mm bolt. Dropping the subframe is where this will ultimately take you.
This is a common occurrence on 201/124/129 and 210's which use these 5-link parts. I think there are some 202/3's which also have the issue with the 10/12mm bolt differences, but I have not personally experienced this. There may also be R170 as well. Don't quote me on that. These bushes and arms were used on many models in various combinations.
Aside from having to ensure one has the proper triple square bits, why are they a PITA? Just curious.
When in that far I would consider new brake shields on the rear guns and new wheel bearings since the kits are inexpensive and the hub has to come off to replace the brake shield. Unless yours have zero rust that is. I also replace the foot brake cables since they are inexpensive and your already in that far.
The XZN bolts are a PITA because it is hard to get tools on them in confined spaces (with subframe in the car). There's a special MB tool but it may be NLA.
The aftermarket bolt kits include everything you need including a spacer sleeve (MB sells this sleeve separately). With the aftermarket bolt kit you should not need to drill anything, but may need to remove existing spacers, and the old bolts may not work with the new arms. IIRC you only need 6 total bolt kits, 3 per side. The LCA and tie rod DO NOT need the bolt kit.
The aftermarket bolt kits include everything you need including a spacer sleeve (MB sells this sleeve separately). With the aftermarket bolt kit you should not need to drill anything, but may need to remove existing spacers, and the old bolts may not work with the new arms. IIRC you only need 6 total bolt kits, 3 per side. The LCA and tie rod DO NOT need the bolt kit.
Thanks for the pics - especially the MB special tool! Is that an M12 triple-square-bit? Would you be able to measure the dimensions from the back of the tool head to the face of the bit? Goody something I know a non-zero amount about! (even if like 0.000001 units above zero)
I checked my own spares and unfortunately I only have M10 triple-square-bits, and they don't fit the Lemf bolt head.
Air-cooled sport beetle enthusiasts may be familiar with "triple square and "limited space" because the archaic belt system that drives the magnesium engine cooling fan / alternator requires fiddling with spacer/shims for the right belt tension, and adding/removing spacers requires fussing with a triple-square-M10 bolt. However what I can observe is ---- If anyone needs to buy triple-square-bits, get stubby ones. VIM stubby ones work really well.
When fiddling with my sport beetle, there is barely any space to get a tool down there, so much so that the "Capri Tools" triple-square didn't fit. I returned the Capri to Amazon and they told me to keep it. The VIM stubby bit fit. Here are some pictures of the bit dimensions as mounted onto my 3/8" Neiko breaker bar.
Also, VIM triple squares are much much cheaper at Home Depot's website than they are on Amazon.
A forum member who will remain unnamed took it and installed it on his car. ;-)
Jlaa, Based on my experience when I replaced the suspension links on my E320 the triple sq/XZN bolt heads are not very deep so there's a tendency for your ratchet to pop off the bolt head. Best to keep the socket seated with pressure while tightening the bolts. As Dave mentioned just a slight PITA vs. traditional bolt heads.
Regards,
Peter Weissman
Regards,
Peter Weissman
Anonymous no more! That VDO blower motor I bot from jlaa for 50 bucks cranked out nice, cool a/c all Summer long on one of my 400E's. Alittle noisy, yes, but just turn up the music! When you have four 400E's and two 500E's you gotta do what you gotta do to keep the M119 fleet in working order!
So, then, without this Mercedes tool, unless one has an [very] extensive toolbox, one might not be able to reach all of the bolts, extending the job by, possibly, several days (until needed extension/joint arrives from Amazon) ?
It's ±21mm, see photos attached. And yup, it's an M12 XZN/tribble-square.
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kiev, you'll likely be dealing with normal hex-head bolts on the old links, but it wouldn't hurt to double-check. Certain bolts can only be R&R'd in 1 direction with the subframe in the car, so if the subframe is dropped at all, make extra sure to not get those backwards. Ideally work on one side at a time so you can look at the other side for reference.
The compact 21mm-depth tool should not be required, but may make the job a bit easier for certain bolts. Remember the suspension must be in the "ready to drive" position before the 5 links are tightened, which is often the worst part of the job, assuming the subframe is not removed. With subframe in the car, you will not be able to get a torque wrench on every nut. The XZN is usually used to hold the bolt, while torquing the nut.
The compact 21mm-depth tool should not be required, but may make the job a bit easier for certain bolts. Remember the suspension must be in the "ready to drive" position before the 5 links are tightened, which is often the worst part of the job, assuming the subframe is not removed. With subframe in the car, you will not be able to get a torque wrench on every nut. The XZN is usually used to hold the bolt, while torquing the nut.
FWIW when I did this on the wagon with the complete Lemforder kit all bits in the kit were used, nothing was left over. No special tools needed. This included the sleeves. The biggest PITA is the thrust link bolt at the frame. Also, due to the challenges of the XZN I decided to flip one of the bolts so to make access a lot easier without special tools (and ease future R&R). I believe it was the camber arm bolt at the hub. Bolt sizes on the 036 may differ, and impact what bits you end up using or not.
Edit: FYI the parts (bolts/sleeve, etc.) are bagged individually with the links as indication on where they go. So if you lose track as you go removing, the new parts will be a good reference (that's if you have the full kit, not sure how the separate parts come).
Edit: FYI the parts (bolts/sleeve, etc.) are bagged individually with the links as indication on where they go. So if you lose track as you go removing, the new parts will be a good reference (that's if you have the full kit, not sure how the separate parts come).
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I believe my rear suspension is due for repair and restoration because it has been handling poorly on the highway. Should I get the Lemforder kit from FCP, or get the individual parts from mboemparts?
Mercedes Rear Control Arm Kit - Lemforder W124RSKIT
Mercedes Rear Control Arm Kit - Lemforder W124RSKIT
www.fcpeuro.com
BTW, What do you think of this?
Whoa, hold the phone. Before you tear into a major project, can you elaborate on "handling poorly on the highway"? The 5 subframe links rarely wear enough to cause significant handling issues (or, noticeable improvement in anything afterwards). It's mostly a "while you're in there" job, if the subframe is coming out for other work. Not trying to talk you out of it, just want to make sure you're not $1k poorer with no improvement in highway handling.
For a standard 124, I'd seriously consider the Lemforder kit, even though I believe a couple of the items are no longer made in Germany. They're still decent quality. For an 036 where the cost vs vehicle value is better, I'd lean towards all OE. I haven't added up the totals lately but I want to say OE parts will be double, possibly triple, the cost.
Also, Naperville had substantial order fulfillment problems this spring/summer. I'm not sure if they are back to normal yet. There are some other dealers to check out, including a couple in the southeast that may have reasonable shipping costs since they're closer to you in Hotlanta.
@Seangbadee, I purchased this kit very recently. It's half German, half Turkish.
These 2 part #s are made in Germany:
These 2 are Turkish:
These 2 part #s are made in Germany:
These 2 are Turkish:
You are probably still OK with Turkish rubber bushings, so I’d probably try the kit. As @gsxr said, if it’s a keeper car, I’d probably spring for factory, or a combination of known German made and quality MB parts. Of course ... some of the MB parts also may be made in Turkey by now.
The rear lower carrier bushing is the item on the rear suspension links that wears out most readily.
The rear lower carrier bushing is the item on the rear suspension links that wears out most readily.
My Lemf kit was all Germany. But I had it in the parts bin for a while, purchased from PParts, back when I was chasing a clunk going to R (ended up being the rear diff making contact with the cross member). No question if this were the 036 I would've definitely sprung for OE as @gsxr suggests. Honestly the job is not that hard at all, but take your time and do it right. Probably the only time you'll ever do it for the life of the car unless you plan to keep it for another 250k, and even then it may last passed that (esp if OE).
Edit: There's a plastic cover on the OE thrust arm. Easy to take off and put on the replacement arm.
Edit: There's a plastic cover on the OE thrust arm. Easy to take off and put on the replacement arm.
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I see the Lemforder rear suspension links kit includes the wheel carrier bushings/joints. If that's part of the job you're thinking about please consider using factory parts. I had to replace one of their joints well short of expected life.
The MB parts are not too expensive and have a long life. Also that's not a job you want to repeat often.
My 2 cents.
Regards,
Peter Weissman
The MB parts are not too expensive and have a long life. Also that's not a job you want to repeat often.
My 2 cents.
Regards,
Peter Weissman
Interesting, mine did not have the carrier bushing. But I did buy the kit a couple years ago. OE for this part FTW.
Now that I've seen this tool of course I need one
As an aside, ref torquing the control arm bolts at sitting position here is my suggestion. Get yourself a digital angle gauge off Ebay (about 20 USD), measure the driveshaft angle with the car on level ground first.
Then when ready to build up the axle again, prop the subframe level and use the angle gauge measurement to also prop the hub in sitting position. Bingo- torque bolts to spec and install subframe back in the car
Correct! If you pull the subframe out of the car, you can measure before pulling, and get a close-enough estimate for axle level to torque all the bolts prior to re-installing the subframe.
Just recently I measured the distance between axle shaft top to the subframe, with the wheel carrier lifted to normal height (with spring removed). This should give me a ballpark to work with in the future, for 036 only. Basically a different way of measuring instead of an angle gauge.
If you don't pull the subframe out, it's harder, as the coil spring must be removed. Othewise jacking under the LCA will lift the vehicle off the jack/stands/lift supporting the vehicle.
Correct! If you pull the subframe out of the car, you can measure before pulling, and get a close-enough estimate for axle level to torque all the bolts prior to re-installing the subframe.
Just recently I measured the distance between axle shaft top to the subframe, with the wheel carrier lifted to normal height (with spring removed). This should give me a ballpark to work with in the future, for 036 only. Basically a different way of measuring instead of an angle gauge.
If you don't pull the subframe out, it's harder, as the coil spring must be removed. Othewise jacking under the LCA will lift the vehicle off the jack/stands/lift supporting the vehicle.
I have 2x galvanised subframes to assemble very soon. All new brake shields, wheel bearings the lot. Unfortunately I dont have my own measurements pre dis-assembly so I'll have to torque them up in car less the springs. (I only obtained the angle gauge recently)
Rear springs are very easy in a w124 with a Jack under the control arm. But still be careful out there. A compressed coil spring is a projectile
Rear springs are SUPER easy on the 036, even more so if they have been cut 1/4-1/2 coil... almost zero pressure at full extension. I can push the LCA up by hand and slide the pivot bolt in.
Other 124's can be under substantial pressure, especially non-Sportline. Be really careful with an E320/E420 at stock ride height.
Other 124's can be under substantial pressure, especially non-Sportline. Be really careful with an E320/E420 at stock ride height.
This one is definitely a keeper. I put the car on a ramp today and noticed that the lower bushings are worn. When the car drives, it appears to have a slight wobble in the rear. While I was doing the brakes a while back, I noticed that the ‘upper’ bushing , (is that in or on the knuckle?) is broken/ wobbly, and needs to be replaced.
I have taken this car from Atlanta to Burlington NC 3 x and it is obvious that the rear needs to be fixed.
Thanks for all the input.
Sean, any chance you can post a photo of the bushing that appears worn/broken?
Any bushings related to the 5 links will be in the link itself. The only item which is pressed into the knuckle / wheel carrier is the lower support joint, shown in post #36.
Any bushings related to the 5 links will be in the link itself. The only item which is pressed into the knuckle / wheel carrier is the lower support joint, shown in post #36.
Nice One!
That's the one that is torn on both left and right sides. I also noticed that the bushings on the lower arms are also worn. I've never had to repair them on my 300E because i never bothered to be that detailed. As i mentioned in an earlier post, this one is a keeper so I intend to R&R as much as I can.Sean, any chance you can post a photo of the bushing that appears worn/broken?
Any bushings related to the 5 links will be in the link itself. The only item which is pressed into the knuckle / wheel carrier is the lower support joint, shown in post #36.
Very nice! I would love to hear about how much room there actually is to manipulate that tool once you get in there ---- as my 55mm setup definitely eats up more space.
That tool is mostly a holder, to keep the bolt from turning, while you tighten the nut with a socket or wrench. Certain nuts you can only get a wrench on (open- or box-end), if the subframe is in the car. Gives me PTSD thinking about it.
@Jlaa, will share my experience once I do the work
Dave, you mean subframe removed, right? So, then, even with the MB tool, on some nuts there's no way to get the wrench on, with subframe on the car? Forgive my obtuseness, could you please clarify?
Dave, you mean subframe removed, right? So, then, even with the MB tool, on some nuts there's no way to get the wrench on, with subframe on the car? Forgive my obtuseness, could you please clarify?
If you're talking about the nut that is used with the Miller tool for pulling out the larger rear subframe bushing, there is very little space -- barely enough room to get your fingers on the nut and hold it in place while using an impact driver from underneath to tighten it. Even with that I had to wedge a crow bar to pull down on the carrier enough to get my fingers on the nut. The bolt spins fast enough that the nut "catches" without having to hold it with a wrench.
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