Stereo RetroFit Help

[frm1484]

Clarification above.....meant am spending too much money to have my source come over speaker level inputs

 

[frm1484]

Still having internal debate about doing the jenherts or doing rainbows at all 4 corners and a nice 8" in the trunk in a custom box that will be a perfect fit. 2 baseline questions i wanted to ask (admittedly probably kind of dumb ones):

- Would having the sub with a little punch to it be "bad" for the body integrity of a nearly 25 year old car with it sitting in the trunk? Instinctively the sub seems like the right route to go but I can't help to think that after a couple years of having it bump around that it is going to lead to more rattles/creaks/looseness, etc in the car than if i never put a sub in and not sure i want to vibrate my car loose

- for the door boards, do those effectively function like a free air woofer? I read in the installation instructions that you have to cut holes in the door panel and i presume the 6.5inch bass woofers use the space in the door board box plus the interior of the door as its effective "cabinet", but just seems like it would be really tough to have a very tight seal with that application functioning as the box and as a result would be pretty tough to get much in the name of decent bass response with what amounts to a leaky / not air tight box

 

[gsxr]

8" sub in the trunk (or larger, there's room for a 15") won't affect body integrity at all.

The door boards do act like small free air woofers, same as the factory door speakers. Again, you are not going to get any bottom octave response out of two 6.5" midbasses, but it's a heck of a lot more than what you have now!

 

[frm1484]

Not like I would be bassing out or anything either but was just a worry of mine as just about every car with a sub in trunk that I have heard standing outside the car sounds like it's vibrating the whole back half of it loose

Gonna get the wheels in motion for the 4602 / rainbows / sub option tomorrow........will share pics and any lessons learned once I get it together..... Thanks so much to everyone for the help

 

[maw1124]

I've had a 10" in my trunk for some years and it doesn't vibrate anything. Not even the license plate cover. Sure, you can overdo anything, but nothing that's been mentioned in this thread comes close to that. The two 6.5's are never going to be a sub replacement.

So your choice really comes down to whether you care about the music at the lowest end, at ANY volume level. If you do, you need a sub. If you don't, you don't. It's really that simple as I see it. Mine is custom built into the trunk space behind the rear driver wheel well (formerly wasted space), and the only real way I can tell it's there is the music.

You can always do door boards now and double back to the sub if you need it. For me, the choice of head unit is vastly more important. I know people here like it to be period correct, but I think that's a mistake, given the revolution in digital music and processing these past 10 years.

Good luck,

maw

 

[8899]

Mine is custom built into the trunk space behind the rear driver wheel well (formerly wasted space), and the only real way I can tell it's there is the music.

Any chance you could post up a photo?

 

[gsxr]

Any chance you could post up a photo?

Here's pics of my 15" sub install, courtesy of a PO:

 

[8899]

Here's pics of my 15" sub install, courtesy of a PO:

Thanks. What's in that shaving cream can behind the display case glass???

 

[ClassicCarsAllDay]

Capacitor

 

[Ntrepid]

You mean Flux Capacitor (v2.0 as GSXR only has the latest and greatest)

 

[ClassicCarsAllDay]

Ive heard he's been hanging with some guy called the Doc lately...

For another thought....
My SEC has 2 12's in a bandpass box ported through the rear deck in a stereo configuration with 5 Amplifiers powering 12 speakers.
Not a rattle. It is a Mercedes after all

But unless it's entirely for aesthetics, I would go with a more modern H/U IMO. (notwithstanding some crazy XES, F1 Status, ect S/Q equipment...but then the price for a quality install is $$$$$)
I just grabbed a Pioneer for 160 that matches the interior color almost perfectly for the W124, and has USB, BT, Aux, CD, and App control, with the ability to DJ your songs together.

 

[maw1124]

Any chance you could post up a photo?

I'm away from the car, so it will be a while (weeks).

Mine is similar to GSXR's, but: (a) smaller diameter sub; (b) which lends to a more shallow box that doesn't protrude nearly as far into the trunk (it's basically tucked into the space, about 6" of total depth), and (c) a smaller amp where the 6disc changer used to live, but smaller than the changer was.

maw

 

[frm1484]

Ordered the 4602 which came in last week, had purchased a set of the Rainbows through Amazon UK but the source didn't have the fronts and cancelled my order, then found a set through amazon US of just the rears so ordered 2 sets as only difference on the rainbows is the mounting adaptor (i am 99% sure) that hopefully will get shipped this week

For others interested in the Rainbows, after spending some time learning some things hopefully the below is helpful info that can save you time:

- Basically can't source them in the US, i called around to a number of the U.S. "dealers" listed on the "website" and evidently everything goes through Don in Edison NJ at Exquisite Marketing (same guy that is the sole importer of the Jehnerts in the U.S.), for the rainbows its all branded through a different business called Unexpected Creations LLC. So if ordering new in the U.S. would need to order through him, unclear how long it would take for him to get them but he did respond to my email from his vacation saying that he doesn't have inventory of the Intelligence line and would have to order from rainbow (this is the line relevant to our cars). Also the website www.rainbowcaraudio.com is not the US based site of the manufacturer (they don't have a US site). This is effectively the site of Exquisite Marketing as the exclusive US distributor, but when you first look at it you think its a "rainbow" site given the name of it is "rainbow audio usa" and it sets up like a manufacturer's site, but i figured out that some of the data on here is stale by a couple of years. rainbow-audio.de is the only actual manufacturers website

- it seems what may be the best place for those in the U.S. (and even UK as looks like they sell for quite a bit more on UK audio sites than in Germany) is to buy from a reputable German Online Big Box seller that ships abroad. Kolumbus24.com sells them, but when ordering (from the US at least) it won't let you get all the way through the payment process online without an error at checkout where it keeps saying you didn't enter your country of shipment. I sent them an email over the weekend and a csr responded today and set everything up and provided an ability to execute checkout through paypal (to my surprise my total went down as he removed the VAT for it coming to the states)........too bad i got tired of the online hassle at first and just paid the extra 15 bucks to buy 2 sets of rears on amazon in the interim before the CSR responded (still unclear if the amazon 3rd party will come through if they don't then will go Kolumbus 24 route and probably net save about 45 bucks with no VAT)

- You will see two different types of Intelligence Line out there for the W124 drop-ins (the IQ 120 CX and the IL-X 4.7)...the intelligence line generally is for specific factory style fitments in a variety of cars. Evidently the IL-x 4.7 is the newer version (with the update they rationalized SKUs for the number of vehicles they make them for relative to the old IQ CX 120.......luckily must be enough W124 owners buying them for them to keep making em to fit that application). Everyone selling the IQ 120 CX is just selling NOS (Kolumbus 24 actually sells both for the same price right next to each other on the website so it can be confusing as to which one you want). I decided to go with the IL-x 4.7 under assumption that the newer version version of a model "should" be better (which as i type this i realize is a stupid base-line assumption as that logic doesn't really translate to MB vehicles IMHO!). I had no idea about the IL-X line until i stumbbled onto the official rainbow-audio.de site as everything i had seen on EBay and on the rainbowcaraudio.com site was only related to the older IQ CX 120 line

 

[frm1484]

i know there was some convo on it earlier in this thread, but thinking to have my installer do some additional sound deadening while he has everything pulled apart. Interested in your perspective dave of anywhere that doesn't do that much as looks like you have done it on a couple cars but below was the installers recommendation if i wanted to do sound deadening (he actually was cool enough to also give me model #s and pointed me to amazon where i can get the material cheaper than what he is allowed to sell it to me for)

- Recommended using Hushmat brand for everything
- Recommends a butyl rubber material in rear behind seats and on rear floor
- Recommends using same butyl rubber on doors but also using a closed cell foam material in conjunction on doors
- For completeness (but he said maybe secondary priority) said would use just the closed cell foam material on the roof (remember i don't mind if he has to jack my existing headliner up getting to everything as i am replacing that right after i do the audio anyway)


also for sanity check on price: he gave me amazon for buying the material already, but labor for doing all 4 doors, behind rear seats / wheel wells and rear floorboard would be extra $200 to rest of my install, and if had him do roof that would be an incremental $250 on top since not really leveragable with rest of install

 

[maw1124]

Yes to Hushmat -- consensus is that's the best (discovered that on my M3 install). $250 seems imminently reasonable.

maw

 

[8899]

I've done preliminary research into sound deadening products and was overwhelmed by the number of products available on the market. I am specifically looking for a door kit for when I do the Jehnert installation and came across these:

http://store.secondskinaudio.com/au...aker-tweaker-set-of-2-2-sheets-okp-1csa-1whr/
http://cascadeaudio.com/car_noise_control/dk_1_car_door_kit.htm
http://www.raamaudio.com/package-1-...s-ofensolite-iuo-peel-and-stick-41-625-sq-ft/

I will definitely look into Hushmat as well.

 

[8899]

So I bought the Jehnert doorboard kit. Paid $925 for it from Don Amman at Unexpected Creations. Good guy to work with and very knowledgeable....and sells all kinds of car audio equipment. Anyway, when I told Don that I had parchment interior with code 275 in my 1994 w124...yea, you guessed it. Confusion all over the place. So Jehnert sent me two color samples from Germany. One is a genuine leather Daimler-pergament and the other is a vinyl Kiesel-biege. It was interesting that they didn't offer genuine leather samples in both colors and then also vinyl samples in both colors. Turns out that the vinyl Kiesel-biege is a better color match...so I went with it. Photo below, sample on the left is the vinyl, on the right is the leather.

 

[maw1124]

That is interesting. Maybe for different cars; e.g., vinyl for SL500, leather for SL600? That's about all I can think of. Remember the 600 cars are leather where others are vinyl, often times.

maw

 

[8899]

I also picked up a set ScanSpeak Revelator 12M/4631-G00 4.5" mid-range drivers to go into the dash. These will be used instead of the dash mid-range drivers that come in the Jehnert kit. I got them super cheap off of eBay (slightly used but bought earlier this year). These here:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-4-midrange/scanspeak-revelator-12m/4631g-4.5-midrange/

Btw, I will be looking to off-load the Jehnert dash mid-range drivers sometime in the near future just in case anyone is interested. According Don at Unexpected Creations, the Jehnert dash drivers are better than the dash Rainbows (which he sells as well).

 

[maw1124]

Any chance you could post up a photo?

Sorry for the delay here. I've been away from the car (boy have I missed it).

Hope this helps. The subwoofer enclosure extends all the way down into the space beneath the visible part, so there's more air movement.

Maybe an Admin can rotate the photos for me.

Cheers,

maw

 

[M104-AMG]

Awhile back I fabricated custom door panels for 5.25" A/D/S coaxial speakers. I listen to lots of jazz and classical music, and love the characteristics of a single-point source for my music (minus the sub-woofer), hence the reason of custom fabrication. Completely Dynamatted the doors to do this, and had to run bi-amped 12-gauge wire.

Sounds wonderful and coherent, especially with the adjustable aim of the tweeters.

neil

 

[maw1124]

Awhile back I fabricated custom door panels for 5.25" A/D/S coaxial speakers. I listen to lots of jazz and classical music, and love the characteristics of a single-point source for my music (minus the sub-woofer), hence the reason of custom fabrication. Completely Dynamatted the doors to do this, and had to run bi-amped 12-gauge wire.

Sounds wonderful and coherent, especially with the adjustable aim of the tweeters.

neil

Looks gorgeous, and I'm sure it sounds great. Is that in a W124 coupe or sedan? If sedan, what did you do with your dash speakers (are they simply dormant)?

I'm actually just hoping slim-fit technology catches up soon here, so I can just put a good slim-fit 5.25 in the doors, and perhaps move to a slim-fit 10" sub where the first aid kit now lives in the cabin. Until then, I'll likely stand down.

maw

 

[M104-AMG]

<SNIP> Is that in a W124 coupe or sedan? If sedan, what did you do with your dash speakers (are they simply dormant)?

<SNIP>

maw

Thanks for kind words. Yes, they sound great. The dash speakers were replaced with Focals, and they currently are connected to my ham-radio system . . .

neil

 

[frm1484]

So after a lot of drama, had multiple rainbow orders from various European retailers that couldn't be fulfilled and Don at exquisite still couldn't get any last I checked with him (tried for months) so pretty heavily considering going jehnerts, a couple thoughts below that I would value input from the group on:

- with 2 mid-basses of the jehnerts firing directly into the bottom of the seat is that really bad positioning that is going to soak up all that output? My audio guy wants to basically fabricate a set of doorboards that move the speaker forward (like what Neil did above in his set-up), could allow me to use higher end drivers as well (he likes hybrid audio). I also take the warren buffetism to heart of don't ask a barber if you need a haircut and I realize that he gets a lot more billable hours making the doorboards than just installing pre fabbed ones where he doesn't even make any margin on the product.

- anyone done doorboards in black? My concern is that my 23 yr old door panels have the typical "sheen" that black gets having absorbed a bunch of product over the years and am worried that I won't get a great match to the rest of the door panel

- my audio guy agreed 100% with gsxr that there are a lot better places to spend money than on rears, especially if doing something with as many drivers as the jehnerts and feeding them a boatload of power.....in fact he went a step further and is recommending that I remove my rears all together to enable sound from the trunk sub to more easily enter the cabin rather than going through gas tank / seats / rear wheel well and behind seats hushmat / etc. Obviously would keep the grilles in place so would just have the factory speaker opening without a driver

- I am going to use a Becker 4602 for my head unit and a nice external amp (leaning towards arc audio) but the Becker doesn't have parametric eq or DSP capabilities; so with that handicap in mind am I kind of wasting money doing the jehnerts without better control? Should i explore getting some of that sound shaping ability through an external sound processor between the HU and amp (understanding that slope can get real slippery and very expensive)

As always thanks for your thoughts


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[RicardoD]

So all those listings for W124 Rainbows on eBay don't actually work?

I figure when you go custom door cards don't handicap yourself sticking with period correct Becker head unit, go with a modern head unit with pre-amp outputs and drive your new door card speakers properly. What's the cost for custom door boards vs ordering the pre-made Jehnerts? I also noticed both jehnert woofers fire into the side of the seat. For lower frequencies that might not be too much of a problem. Where are you putting the tweeters?

I would like to do component speakers in the doors, with a separate amp, and a modern headunit like an Alpine or Pioneer. That's the setup in my 911 and I love it. Then just keep the rears stock. And do this without any wire harness mods (basically have to plumb in your own parallel audio wiring) or drilling holes anywhere.

 

[frm1484]

The Becker 4602 (check it out on becker USA website) actually has front and rear pre outs that are actually a decent voltage, but just doesn't have ability to fine tune things in. For me aesthetic is very impt and want a factory look for my HU

I would have tweeter mount under the factory dash speaker grille and either way Could do as a 3-way system, jehnerts come with a mounting plate for their 4-inch dash driver & tweet or if went custom route my guy can easily make one for another 4-inch component set

As far as cost goes, for jehnerts it's just under a grand for the equipment and about another 300-350 for professional install. The custom fabricated route is 950 before I buy any speakers, so I could go 2-way custom with better drivers than jehnert for about the same all-in price (6.5 door/tweet only in dash) or go 3-way custom (6.5 door / 4 dash / tweet dash) for about an extra 3-400 bucks depending on how nuts want to go


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[frm1484]

Thus far I have placed 4 separate orders for the w124 rainbows through eBay and Amazon and everyone of them didn't have product and had to refund me.....then all of a sudden all of the prices on the auctions had an extra zero and were priced at 1,090 euros instead of 109 euros, looks like they have all now gone back to normal levels but as that "easy" solution was not so easy my mind started to wonder and now giving heavier consideration to a more all-in set-up


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[RicardoD]

Well some time early next year I will start with just a new head unit, probably Pioneer DEH-80PRS. Yes, I wish it looked like new Continental TR7412UB-OR but I need to focus on function in this case. I think I can turn the display orange on the Pioneer.

 

[gsxr]

- with 2 mid-basses of the jehnerts firing directly into the bottom of the seat is that really bad positioning that is going to soak up all that output? My audio guy wants to basically fabricate a set of doorboards that move the speaker forward (like what Neil did above in his set-up), could allow me to use higher end drivers as well (he likes hybrid audio).

The door speaker location would be poor for a midrange, but for the midbass use, there is not an issue. I'm sure you have already read what ERASE wrote here, with parametric EQ there should be no issue with the Jehnert driver location.\:

"I have the Jehnert Door panels made specifically for this car. ... They offer audiophile performance equivalent to a $60,000 Home system IF and Only IF you use a quality Parametric EQ like the McInotsh EQ and have great amplification and midranges- as I have done."​

anyone done doorboards in black? My concern is that my 23 yr old door panels have the typical "sheen" that black gets having absorbed a bunch of product over the years and am worried that I won't get a great match to the rest of the door panel

If you have black interior, you don't have much choice. No other color is going to look better. I wouldn't worry about it. If there is any visual difference, nobody will notice except you, and you'll probably forget about it pretty quick after listening to the system.

my audio guy agreed 100% with gsxr that there are a lot better places to spend money than on rears, especially if doing something with as many drivers as the jehnerts and feeding them a boatload of power.....in fact he went a step further and is recommending that I remove my rears all together to enable sound from the trunk sub to more easily enter the cabin rather than going through gas tank / seats / rear wheel well and behind seats hushmat / etc. Obviously would keep the grilles in place so would just have the factory speaker opening without a driver

I wouldn't remove the rear speakers entirely. They still provide a useful function as rear fill, and adding holes between trunk and cabin won't allow the bass frequencies to travel significantly better. If you want a trunk sub with massive cabin input you'd need 4th-order bandpass box that has the port exit into the cabin with no output into the trunk ($$$$$$$$ to do properly). My one car has Jehnerts up front, stock rears, sub in trunk, and it all sounds very good (IMO). I'm sure it could be better with a parametric EQ and ERASE tuning it though!

I am going to use a Becker 4602 for my head unit and a nice external amp (leaning towards arc audio) but the Becker doesn't have parametric eq or DSP capabilities; so with that handicap in mind am I kind of wasting money doing the jehnerts without better control? Should i explore getting some of that sound shaping ability through an external sound processor between the HU and amp (understanding that slope can get real slippery and very expensive)

Get an external parametric EQ. No need for it to be built in to the head unit. I would recommend either going simple (4602 with everything else stock), or all the way (doorboards, external amps, sub optional depending on your bass needs). You may not be happy compromising in the middle.

 

[modzona]

The jehnert is better than stock setup but nothing to write home about. I went from that to a single 6.5" in the front of the door. 10 times better. Will post pics and more later.

 

[frm1484]

The jehnert is better than stock setup but nothing to write home about. I went from that to a single 6.5" in the front of the door. 10 times better. Will post pics and more later.

Thanks - did you use a 6.5 coax in door or component with tweet up in dash? Also what 6.5 did you use that you prefer to the jehnerts?

I too was thinking I may be happier with the highest quality 2 way my budget could afford instead of trying to make a lower quality 3way work (would do custom panels on the door for a single 6.5 and mount tweet in dash opening). As a general rule I have found over the years that the same amount of money spent on a few, higher quality speakers will generally make my tastes happier than getting more drivers. I wonder if an appropriately placed high end 6.5 driver with enough juice would be able to accurately handle duty on both mid-bass and mids better than lower quality drivers but with more "division of labor" in reproducing the spectrum?

I don't listen that loud and I value, clarity, accuracy and detail at moderate volume the most (I love listening to a song I have heard a million times but on a high quality system and all of a sudden picking out new instruments I never knew were there). I will add a sub, but more to just add missing end of spectrum, I personally don't need bass that "hits hard" just something that accurately matches my mids / highs. Thinking of a single 10, and focusing more dollars in my front stage (JL makes some nice pre-fabbed shallow mount units at reasonable prices that are prob good enough for my bass needs)


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[frm1484]

I wouldn't remove the rear speakers entirely. They still provide a useful function as rear fill, and adding holes between trunk and cabin won't allow the bass frequencies to travel significantly better:

in your setups do you just run the rears off the HU? Thinking these have nowhere near the power handling capability for amount of juice I would need to push to fronts (especially if went 3-way) and would like to get away with doing a 4channel Amp where rear two run the sub and front two run my front stage

 

[maw1124]

I agree with GSXR entirely. My musical tastes are close to what you're describing. But the quintet DOES have a bass player, so that sound needs to be represented. And a single 10 in the trunk does just fine for that.

The one thing I'll add, to the question you asked but wasn't really answered, the 4" dash speaker serves in my system like the "tweeter" in the front "component" system, with the door midbass driver. Those two together put the front sound stage just in front of the steering wheel, seems to me (consider the triangle between them). Yes to the JLAudio 5.25" shallow mount coaxials -- I was just pointing them out to GSXR a couple of weeks ago. I may upgrade to those for both front and rear (I think they'll actually fit back there, and I'm sure they're an upgrade).

The rears are just fill (unless you go JLA, which may be a plug and play upgrade) and sometimes I fade it all to the front because they are JUST fill and the way they sound you may not want much of it. Think of them as extra mid voice coils (200Hz - 2KHz). But I wouldn't remove them altogether in favor of some airy bass noise coming from the trunk (along with road noise and who the hell knows what else). In stock form, it's something better than nothing. But the JLA's transform that whole thinking.

In reality, it's the sound shaping from modern head units that brings any of this discussion to life. Without that, I'm not sure you're going to be happy with any speakers and amps you put in. So you either need an external sound processor or to have it in the head unit. And the head unit sound processing capabilities now are as good as the stand alone sound processors were 5 years ago, almost. So why bother with standalone just to preserve old school looks. With head unit sound shaping, you can get away with a lot less on speakers, amps and subs. It really is that dramatic.

With a modern head unit, some 4-way cabin amplification, and a dedicated sub in the trunk, you'll be more than satisfied unless you're entering stereo competitions. As for the look, I run mine on Blackout mode most all the time, on all the cars (I simply don't need to see it), so all you see is a radio with a volume knob. That's a classy enough look for me. Volume up, volume down is really all I care about. And when I want to get to the other controls, I know how to and no one else does. Which is even better.

maw

 

[gsxr]

in your setups do you just run the rears off the HU? Thinking these have nowhere near the power handling capability for amount of juice I would need to push to fronts (especially if went 3-way) and would like to get away with doing a 4channel Amp where rear two run the sub and front two run my front stage

No - on my cars with aftermarket amps, all channels are run via the amps, nothing off deck power. I have Jehnerts in two cars, both have all speakers driven from older Soundstream Reference power amps, with Nakamichi CD-700 head units.

That was kind of what I meant with either keeping near stock, or going all the way. Stock runs off the head unit (and stock amps, depending on the Becker system in your 036), aftermarket is the full Monty with all external aftermarket juicy power amps.

 

[maw1124]

Last advice is you have to be careful with "audio guys" who don't know the peculiarities of this car (tank like construction, OEM specs and fitments, wiring, etc.) giving you advice. What I have found is I come out better listening to the guys who know the car inside and out, then telling the audio guys what to do armed with that info, than asking the "barber" what to do about my "hair". That's just experience talking.

This car is a tricky one to get right from an audio and aesthetics standpoint. And the car is a matter of first impression to the audio guy, whereas some of the guys on this site are decades long 500E owners AND decades long audiophiles.

It makes a difference. So you're asking the right people.

Cheers,

maw

 

[modzona]

In my mind the Jehnert is just not worth the money at all. If you are buying it used its a different matter or If you cant do or get a good guys to make you panels the jehnert panels might be a place to start.
A good stereo builder will make your money a lot more and better sound.

Focal PS165F3 in the front. The 3" mid and 1" tweet is in the dash on the original speaker place. To day i think i would mount a 5" like the Focal PC130 in the dash. That would make the mid-range a bit complete, richer.
In the rear i have the PC130 or the PC165 cant remember on the top of my head. The sound really dies without the rear. It helps a lot with complete sound (rich/atmosphere). Really hard to describe this in English
With the 6.5 in the doors you dont really need the sub if you dont want the extra push and force that it gives.

And as sub i have a custom box with 2x10" Ground Zero GZRW 25SPL. The sub sound comes out under the medic kit and the top of that has been drilled out and had speaker mesh put over it. Looks Mercedes factory.

 

[gsxr]

The nice thing about the Jehnert doorboards is they look factory, and retain the map pockets. You can use different 6.5" drivers if you don't like what they supply. Not everyone has access to an audio shop capable of fabricating custom doorboards from scratch, and unless you can look at another 124 chassis install the shop has done, you're taking a gamble on their work & results. And it may end up costing more as well. If you live in the middle of nowhere, Jehnerts can be shipped to your door and you can DIY the install. I'm not aware of any other mfr that produces a similar product for the 124 chassis. Again, I'm not saying a custom doorboard isn't as good or possibly better; just depends what works for your ears and your location/budget.

BTW, that 4th-order bandpass box is exactly what I was talking about. I wanted a pair of 12" JL's... possibly four 12's in an isobaric setup but the ROI was questionable with the isobarics. If you need to get the spare tire in/out that will cut into the available box space.

 

[frm1484]

Last advice is you have to be careful with "audio guys" who don't know the peculiarities of this car (tank like construction, OEM specs and fitments, wiring, etc.) giving you advice. What I have found is I come out better listening to the guys who know the car inside and out, then telling the audio guys what to do armed with that info, than asking the "barber" what to do about my "hair". That's just experience talking.

This car is a tricky one to get right from an audio and aesthetics standpoint. And the car is a matter of first impression to the audio guy, whereas some of the guys on this site are decades long 500E owners AND decades long audiophiles.

It makes a difference. So you're asking the right people.

Cheers,

maw

This is exactly why I have been posting a million questions here and appreciate all the thoughts so much.....so as far as jehnerts, I really like everything about the idea of them but in the back of my mind im thinking they are "too good to be true" and my logical side wants to jump to the conclusion that they must just be "ok" audio drivers (clearly better than stock drivers but would be no where near what some other options may be within a few hundred bucks all-in at end of the day) No way to tell though without doing a listen

the difference between loaded and unloaded doorboards retail is 330 euros, so 330 euros that gets you 2pair of 6.5 inch mid bass drivers, a pair of four inch mids, tweets and a 3-way crossover that seems dirt cheap to me relative to any other aftermarket 3-way component systems where you also only get a pair of mid-basses and they still all run considerably more (I'm speaking in euros to take the favorable move in exchange rate variable out of equation for the moment). My logical side says jehnert is clearly in business to make money and not to sell underpriced to market speakers so I want to conclude that the included drivers would fall into the market segment of better than stock drivers, a very convenient and user friendly option for a car where few such options exist, but sonically it's going to be inline with any other average tier aftermarket stuff available at crutchfield or wherever (which even if that's the case for the convenient solution it may be worth it for the nice buttoned up package it provides)

On the other hand I read much of the convo erase / golden ears, Dave, and others had on MBworld a couple years ago, and erase / golden ears has clearly forgotten more on a tuesday about how to get great car audio sound than I will learn in my lifetime, and he and Dave give a pretty strong endorsement of the jehnerts and while it was tough to follow everything in the chain I even got the sense that he admitted that the jehnerts worked better in the w124 environment than some other things that should be far superior equipment sonically but after a bunch of tinkering where he tried a bunch of things it seems he basically came back to the jehnerts other than the addition of the scanspeaks (albeit with some very professional fine tuning)


Clearly I'm about as scatter-brained as Courtney Love on this topic....


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[frm1484]

Instead of door panels, has anyone ever seen a successful kick panel install in a w124 for a 6.5 inch Mid bass?


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[RicardoD]

How do you wire up the Jehnert speakers. I see two woofers (in the door panels), a mid in the dash, and a tweeter in the dash. What is the right amp setup to drive these?

 

[gsxr]

How do you wire up the Jehnert speakers. I see two woofers (in the door panels), a mid in the dash, and a tweeter in the dash. What is the right amp setup to drive these?

It's a lot of work to do properly... the wiring should be routed in the factory wire trays, which means pulling a good chunk of the interior out (see photo below). No, you don't have to do this, and most shops wouldn't due to cost of labor. But basically you need to figure out where the amp will be installed, then run RCA's from the head unit to amp(s), and wires from the amp(s) to the crossovers, and from crossovers to each speaker. And you have to figure out where to hide the two crossovers - I put one under the rear seat, another under the front passenger footwell.

For the amps - Jehnert recommends quite a bit of power which I agree with; it's better to have too much power than too little. They say 100-200 watts RMS per channel into a 2-ohm load. The 2-ohm requirement is important... many amps currently on the market will not support 2-ohm loads when bridged, so you need to find something that will do 100-200 unbridged. And that may not be a physically small amp, which could create mounting/install hassles. As noted before... it becomes a very slippery slope.

Note that the Jehnert system as I received it was NOT perfect; the supplied dash mounting plate was shaped incorrectly, despite discussions with their tech support insisting I was doing it wrong. I ended up taking a bunch of photos to prove their plate didn't work if you wanted the stock grille to seat flush, and fabricated my own mounting plate. In the early 2000's they were supplying a fairly high-end MB Quart 4" midrange with lower-end (IIRC) Quart 6.5" midbass, still all good stuff made in Germany. They didn't use the Quart titanium hard-dome tweeter probably because they are known for sounding harsh; instead they supply a soft-dome tweeter (rumor is produced by Rainbow - never confirmed).

Pics of the dash misfit are here (top directory):
http://www.w124performance.com/images/W124_stereo/Jehnert/


Installing in my 87 300D:

 

[Benz]

I recently started to have some weird issues with my stereo setup. The bass would just sound and there would be no vocals and when I would shut off my car and try to start it it wouldnt turn over. I got the car to turn on i changed my main ground for my jl audio amp. Perhaps someone has a grounding point that is the best for our cars. I unplugged the fuse to my power wire and with the sub inoperable there is a crackling noise when switching tracks. I have had the setup for a year no no prior issues.

 

[Jlaa]

So I bought the Jehnert doorboard kit. Paid $925 for it from Don Amman at Unexpected Creations. Good guy to work with and very knowledgeable....and sells all kinds of car audio equipment. Anyway, when I told Don that I had parchment interior with code 275 in my 1994 w124...yea, you guessed it. Confusion all over the place. So Jehnert sent me two color samples from Germany. One is a genuine leather Daimler-pergament and the other is a vinyl Kiesel-biege. It was interesting that they didn't offer genuine leather samples in both colors and then also vinyl samples in both colors. Turns out that the vinyl Kiesel-biege is a better color match...so I went with it. Photo below, sample on the left is the vinyl, on the right is the leather.

PERFECT. Lovely information, 4 years on. Archived on the 500Eboard - perfecto. I'm going to order vinyl Kiesel-beige for my cream-beige 1993 500E.

 

[gsxr]

PERFECT. Lovely information, 4 years on. Archived on the 500Eboard - perfecto. I'm going to order vinyl Kiesel-beige for my cream-beige 1993 500E.

WARNING: Greg (8899)'s car is 1994 and Parchment. Jlaa, your car is 1993 and cream-beige. Slightly different.

 

[Jlaa]

WARNING: Greg (8899)'s car is 1994 and Parchment. Jlaa, your car is 1993 and cream-beige. Slightly different.



View attachment 85244

Roger, thanks.


EDIT --- pricing as of 2019-July from Don Amman @ Exquisite is now $750 without any drivers, in Cream-Beige, shipped.

 

[Jlaa]

I also picked up a set ScanSpeak Revelator 12M/4631-G00 4.5" mid-range drivers to go into the dash. These will be used instead of the dash mid-range drivers that come in the Jehnert kit. I got them super cheap off of eBay (slightly used but bought earlier this year).

<link deleted as it no longer works>

Btw, I will be looking to off-load the Jehnert dash mid-range drivers sometime in the near future just in case anyone is interested. According Don at Unexpected Creations, the Jehnert dash drivers are better than the dash Rainbows (which he sells as well).

@8899, I know this is 4 years ago and you have subsequently sold you auto - were you ultimately happy with the ScanSpeak midranges along with the passive crossovers splitting the Jehnert-supplied tweeters and SS midranges? The theory if I am understanding correctly is that putting a high quality midrange in the dashboard relieves the 6.5" mid basses mounted in doorboards from having to reproduce frequencies much past 250hz, where it all fires into the seat.

The only documented case of ScanSpeak installation in the w124 I can find on the intrawebz is you and the ERASE guy from ThatForumThatWillNotBeNamed. And @gsxr has been asking for years to listen to a ScanSpeak installation.

I have Rainbows in my dashboard, which were installed by the previous owner. I find the Rainbows to be marginally adequate..... although this may be a function of the system still using factory amplification and crossovers.

BTW - here is a shootout of midrange drivers (scan speak was #2) from a "report" that I pulled off the intrawebz from a hardcore audiophile (which I am not) forum:

 

[Jlaa]

Difficult thread to follow, but I think [ERASE @ BanzWorld] did use the Jehnert tweeters up front along with the ScanSpeak drivers:

I took the Jehnerts and jammed them as far forward as possible towards the start of the windshield.

Most car audio buffs will tell you to try to avoid early reflections... particular 5 ms RELECTIONS as they smear the sound stage and cause all sorts of issues when they combine and compete with the DIRECT sound..In fact our brains block/erase the second sound reflections (this takes lots of brain audio processing power...every wonder why your head hurts after being in a loud restaurant or starbucks for 2 hours?)

So short term reflections cause listener fatigue when combined with the direct sound. I noticed that the “premium� stock system in our 1994- 1995 w124’s was not really fatiguing but just wasn’t perfect sounding.. but the fact that it was not fatiguing gave me a clue.

So in an effect to eliminate the time delays associated with tweeter’s (as Jehnert gives you tweeters to install- our original drivers had a whizzer cone) I decided…. Since I can not eliminate the reflected sound completely (5 milliseconds means nothing can be reflected until after 5 FEET!) I decided… since here was not much attenuation from glass reflection….. to eliminated one of the sources of the time differences… My solution.. was to eliminate the DIRECT sound as much as possible and try to make it ALL RELECTIVE SOUND. I am happy to say that this strategy has worked better than expected.. making it all sound like direct sound without reflection. Pretty damn cool!

I jammed the tweeters to be as close to where the front windshieldmeets the glass and used “blu-tack� poster putty (never hardens or melts in the sun) to mold around the tweeter to make it flush with the dash and fill in around that. This also dampens the vibrations caused by the Midrange driver. It cuts down on sound diffraction too ..(The enemy of good sound) So the windshield now acts as an acoustic lens extension. The putty really helped make this work..and my sound stage is as taller than the top of the windshield and goes much wider than the boundaries of the car!


It's just hard to tell if he fit both the tweeter and driver under the dash speaker grill similar to what GSXR did.

I also picked up a set ScanSpeak Revelator 12M/4631-G00 4.5" mid-range drivers to go into the dash. These will be used instead of the dash mid-range drivers that come in the Jehnert kit. I got them super cheap off of eBay (slightly used but bought earlier this year). These here:

ScanSpeak Revelator 12M/4631G 4.5" Midrange

Btw, I will be looking to off-load the Jehnert dash mid-range drivers sometime in the near future just in case anyone is interested. According Don at Unexpected Creations, the Jehnert dash drivers are better than the dash Rainbows (which he sells as well).

I'd try to copy ERASE's setup. I'd have to re-read his thread to figure out if he used the Jehnert tweeter, a different tweeter, or left out the tweeter completely. My only concern is the relatively lower power handling of the ScanSpeak (40w).

In reviewing the threads, ERASE @ BanzWorld use a 4.5" ScanSpeak midrange that he claimed was drop-in, along with a then-current Jehnert tweeter with Jehnert passive crossovers. According to the Jehnert website, the Jehnert XE26 tweeter has a 54mm chassis diameter and a 15mm height.

For posterity's sake, if this helps someone in the future, I am finding that actually the ScanSpeak midrange is not drop-in if you want to use an adjacently mounted tweeter. See the attached photos --- putting the tweeter in means the ScanSpeak needs to shift over a little bit in the speaker hole, thus leaving a crescent shaped opening that needs to be covered with a baffle that will have to be manufactured. The tweeter I am using is a Focal TNF, which has a chassis diameter of 55mm and a 17.3mm height. Note that the TNF employs an inverted dome (concave) which minimizes height.

I am going to deviate a bit from ERASE/Jehnert's approach by running separate pairs of speaker wire to the midrange and the tweeter (omitting passive crossovers) such that I can actively crossover the two drivers with the amplifier and experiment with different crossover frequencies and slopes.