FYI OE / OEM crankshaft position sensor (CKP) review

[clarkz71]

OK, after my ignition wire thread, I thought I'd review what I found on CKP sensors.

My original is an AB Elektronic which is made in Germany (still)

I purchased 2, one from Autohaus AZ who said it would be either AB or Hella
Hella it turns out is made by AB Elektronic I found out. Hella is a ab part

Moderator update: This post is from 2014. Hella is now selling aftermarket sensors made in Spain, not reboxed OEM. See post #27 + #50 below.

The other is from Worldpac

Both turned out to be OE Mercedes parts with the Star and MB part# ground off.

MB part# 003-153-4928 also 003-153-5028

Both sensor were marked with the 4928 part#

 

[clarkz71]

Here a Hella for an 119.8XX, you can see the ab logo and MB star

Here's the difference between OE ab elektronic/Hella and Bosch

Metal can seize in aluminum housing on the Bosch

 

[2phast]

Metal can seize in aluminum housing on the Bosch

While that statement is accurate, use of a anti seize grease would prevent such a issue. Also, as you can see from the picture, the actual metal section of the CPS is preceded by a plastic ribbed section and this is the only section coming in contact with the metal of the casing, so there really isn't any risk of seizing using the Bosch sensor.

 

[clarkz71]

If you use a Bosch sensor, then yes. Antiseize will prevent that.

But using the same CKP the car came with is my first choice, in light of "Bosch quality" as of late

The ab elektronic sensors are made in Germany, no gauratee the Bosch part will be.

And if you desire a Bosch brand CKP the # is 0 261 210 085 and is backordered for months at Autohaus AZ

Also costs more.

 

[2phast]

If you use a Bosch sensor, then yes. Antiseize will prevent that.

But using the same CKP the car came with is my first choice, in light of "Bosch quality" as of late

The ab elektronic sensors are made in Germany, no gauratee the Bosch part will be.

And if you desire a Bosch brand CKP the # is 0 261 210 085 and is backordered for months at Autohaus AZ

Also costs more.

Like previously mentioned, you don't need anti size on the Bosch sensor as no metal part of the sensor comes in contact with the metal casing. Bosch obviously put some thought into the design to prevent any issues with seizing.

 

[clarkz71]

While that statement is accurate, use of a anti seize grease would prevent such a issue. Also, as you can see from the picture, the actual metal section of the CPS is preceded by a plastic ribbed section and this is the only section coming in contact with the metal of the casing, so there really isn't any risk of seizing using the Bosch sensor.

They can and do sieze bro, check post #35, even Jonathan has seen it.
The metal "DOES" contact the bracket, he had to pull the transmission it was so bad.

PM him and ask.

Very common, I've had a few give me trouble with corrosion.

I didn't post this thread to debate metal vs plastic, just that the OEM CKP from AZ
is in fact a Mercedes OE part. Same as my original.


http://www.benzworld.org/forums/r129-sl-class/1541905-m119-crankshaft-position-sensor-r-r-4.html

there are two bolts holding the bracket on...one of which is only accessible w/ the trans out..

We had this very problem oh, 6 months ago or so.. after fiddling for a few hours decided it would be easier to yank the trans.. started @ 5, left the shop just after 1. Not horrible.

Gave me a chance to shove in a fresh front and rear trans seal while I was there.. rear main was bone dry or we'd have hit that too.


Jonathan

Bosch obviously put some thought into the design to prevent any issues with seizing.

No such luck, as you can see from what I've posted.

 

[clarkz71]

Here's one that seized so bad it broke off flush. I'd say the metal housing is making contact........

Maybe you commented .........2phast on this one.___lol

You know me by now, I only post what I can back up with documentation and photographic proof.

 

[twb-dbb]

Hello,

I am replying to this old thread as I have fallen victim to (translation: I was dumb enough to...) the dreaded sheared-off CKP. The photo in this post is exactly what I am looking at now. The metal sleeved portion of the CKP is seized in the bracket. I can get a long-nosed vice grip on the sleeve and have been pulling on it and getting nowhere. Have soaked it for a week now with Liquid Wrench and still can't get it to budge...

I have been looking on line at the various MB forums and see various attempts such as drilling, etc. to get it out but thought I would float this post to see if anyone had any other thoughts.... not looking forward to having the car flat bedded to the shop...

Would appreciate any guidance!

Thanks!

TB

 

[gsxr]

You could try removing the bracket... there's a single bolt that attaches it to the block. However I'm not certain this can be removed with the transmission in place...

EDIT - there are two bolts. See photo in post #16 below. Need to remove the transmission...

 

[twb-dbb]

Thanks gsxr,

I didn't try to remove the bracket but I did manage to get the CKP out today - after about 8 hours of digging at it... drilled some of the center out with a flex drill bit extension, then sprayed it with PB Blaster then filled it with dry ice and then pulled on it with the long nose vice-grip - repeated this several times... the final thing I tried was to stick a small soldering iron into the drilled out CKP and let it heat for about 20 minutes and then filled it again with dry ice. It finally slowly came out... weird thing was that it came out looking like clean stainless steel with no sign of corrosion....

Anyway, avoided the trip to the shop and the $$$ transmission pull...

TB

 

[lowman]

interesting this thread.as they DEFINETLY can seize up in that bracket,as you can see on the submitted picture..the sensor is indeed encased in the whole bracket.
I did a EPC search....and this is the parts number for the bracket:A1161580640

And when doing another search..it "DOES" seem that it will be possible removing it when transmission is in the car.It does have two guides sitting inside the engine block...but the length seems to be just as deep ..so you can get it out by unscrewing that one bolt.
I really want to do the crank position sensor replacement as a part of preventative maintenance.

here is a pic of the bracket,and you can see the length of the guides..does look like they are short enough to make the bracket removable with transmission in place.

 

[twb-dbb]

Hello Lowman,

One thing that scared me away from trying to remove the bracket was a post that I saw somewhere in a MB forum (don't remember which one) that said that in the parts diagrams, while one bolt is shown for the bracket, the description for the bolt says that two are required. If this link works, you can see what I mean:

http://www.mbpartsworld.com/showAss...1992&ukey_category=24393&ukey_trimLevel=20592

The diagram shows the same part number you have (minus the "A") for the bracket and says the hex head screw is part 304017006012.

I don't know if this is true but thought that I would exhaust the drill/freeze/heat/pull/etc. option before I moved to the bracket. Also, as you probably know, the CKP, while easily visible, is in a very tight location - it took the back of my right hand several days for the swelling/bruising to subside....

Somewhere on line there should be an image of the back of an engine with the detail to see the bracket - I have not found one yet.

By the way, I spent some time in Stavanger in the late 80's/early 90's when I was in the oil business.... wonderful place - loved every minute of it!

Good luck with your CKP project!

Thomas

 

[Klink]

You could try removing the bracket... there's a single bolt that attaches it to the block. However I'm not certain this can be removed with the transmission in place...

I have been fortunate enough to never have had to do this, so I just don't know...

 

[jhodg5ck]

BTDT....that one 10mm is Not accessible with the transmission in. Super Sucks Dude.

we're have a total of 3 break off over the years. Now if it's the early style I SOAK it with acetone/atf a few times I tackle the job. So far so good!

jono

 

[lowman]

BTDT....that one 10mm is Not accessible with the transmission in. Super Sucks Dude.


jono

im not trying to pick a fight ..-...but...are you shure?i mean..what is the problem really...it "does" seem accesible from the picture....not saying its alot of space though..but still..it looks like it can be done...?

and...you say early type?what is the difference between early and "late" type?the one shown in the "in progress" picture ...what type is that?

 

[jhodg5ck]

im not trying to pick a fight ..-...but...are you shure?i mean..what is the problem really...it "does" seem accesible from the picture....not saying its alot of space though..but still..it looks like it can be done...?

and...you say early type?what is the difference between early and "late" type?the one shown in the "in progress" picture ...what type is that?

If you can get that off in the car I'm hiring...always wanted a wizard in the shop...

early CKP's are alloy, the later ones are all plastic...plastic doesn't get stuck/snap off.

jono

 

[lowman]

View attachment 61931


If you can get that off in the car I'm hiring...always wanted a wizard in the shop...

early CKP's are alloy, the later ones are all plastic...plastic doesn't get stuck/snap off.

jono

aaahhhhhh now i see :9so there is actually two bolts holding it..that changes the whole thing
But would be nice to move over to the states and work for ya

 

[Kyiv]

early CKP's are alloy, the later ones are all plastic

XENTRY doesn't show VIN/engine # brake between early (A 0031534928) alloy and later (A0031535028) plastic sensor. Any idea when the change to a plastic one took place?

 

[gsxr]

AFAIK, both are available... I think Bosch has the metal body, and other brands are plastic body. I also think if you install a new metal-body sensor, it should be safe to coat the outside with anti-seize to prevent problems removing in the future.

Not sure what brand to recommend if buying aftermarket, or what brand you'll get from the dealer. Note that #50 is now replaced by / superceded to #49. These were not early/late, but rather 2 different mfr's used interchangeably, or "optionally-with" in EPC-speak.

FCP and AHAZ all show "OEM Supplier" with no brand name for $100 and $65 respecitively. RME is selling Hella, made in Spain, for $70. OE is ~$200 discount. (!)

 

[JC220]

I recommend no aftermarket crank sensors for m119. MB only.

MB items now come as plastic housing on the sensor body.

 

[JC220]

New genuine VS original M119 crank sensor:

 

[gsxr]

Joe, what brand is the new OE/Genuine?

 

[JC220]

Joe, what brand is the new OE/Genuine?

That photo was from about June last year Dave I can't recall and the sensor is installed in my S500 coupe. It was a MB dealer supplied sensor in a clear baggie.

I would be guessing a brand now sorry. But it did have MB part number in it.

 

[gsxr]

No worries, Joe. Maybe peek at the connector and see if a logo is visible (some brands may not show the logo here).

Clarkpic below shows the AB Electrik logo:

 

[Kyiv]

I recommend no aftermarket crank sensors for m119. MB only.

MB items now come as plastic housing on the sensor body.

Joe, I saw your post regarding this somewhere. I generally don't take risk with aftermarket parts for vital, precise components. CPK is definitely one of those. Unless there's an aftermarket part with a star grounded off, I'll be buying M-B branded part

 

[Kyiv]

So, assuming my CPK is 28 years old. What would be the correct preparatory procedure to extract it to avoid it breaking off flash?

 

[gsxr]

I can confirm the Hella/Spain CKP is not OE MB with the star logo ground off. I just ordered an "OEM" one from AHAZ... *update* ..., what arrived was another Spanish Hella... NOT "OEM". See post #46 below.

R&R is not fun, due to accessing the retaining bolt. A very long 1/4" extension with a swivel 5mm (?) hex drive will help; as will removing the plastic rain gutter section between left/right metal firewalls, or even removing the throttle cable. Access is tight. Once the bolt is out, try to gentry move/rotate the sensor. Cross fingers & toes, etc. You'll know pretty quick if it's seized or not. They don't *always* seize, and sometimes the originals are plastic-body.

 

[LWB250]

Dave,

Are these any easier to get at from below? I ask because I know that's the case with some other models, despite being able to see it from above. The angles just don't work nor is there enough clearance.

Dan

 

[gsxr]

Dan, I don't think so... at least from memory, there's not good access to fit your arm+hand up from the bottom. Or at least, R&R of the bolt is likely harder from below. With the bolt removed, there MIGHT be access to fit your hand up there and try to pull it upward, from below. Hmmm. I'll have to check next time I have a car on the lift.




Disclaimer: I did this job last month on a W124 and only accessed from above. A telescopic magnet was needed to remove and insert the bolt after loosening/tightening. It wasn't fun.

 

[Kyiv]

You'll know pretty quick if it's seized or not.

So, if it's seized, 99.9% that means removing transmission?

 

[LWB250]

I know Dave will correct me, but I believe on the W124 there is a bracket that is separate from the bell housing, but I'm not sure you can remove it in-frame.

I did this on the E420 a few months ago, and while not fun, you can do it from above. I would add that I replaced mine for naught, as I was reading the faults in the DAS and didn't realize that a CPS fault is a normal event when running diagnostics with the engine not running. Duh!

So now I have a spare on the shelf.

-D

 

[Kyiv]

New genuine VS original M119 crank sensor:

View attachment 125581

@was the one you removed all metal or plastic?

 

[JC220]

@was the one you removed all metal or plastic?

All metal is the original/ old sensor.

Do not fret about it corroding in place. As the forums forefront corrosion expert I can confirm the housing does not completely contact the metal sensor body.

So whilst it is possible it could seize as anything can happen, its likely to be limited cases only. Indeed both my m119s released the crank sensor no issues.

Also - if using anti seize avoid metal containing grease like copper grease just incase of magnetic interference. Perhaps a silicone or ceramic grease would be best.

The old reach around from below on the 124 chassis is probably a no go as Gixer says. On the w140 its very easy - tonnes of space to work with from below. I'll get Dave that pic shortly of the plug end.

 

[Kyiv]

@JC220, Joe, thanks! What's your take on a MB remanufactured -5028 part vs new -4928. I know new is safer, just curious if you'd dare?

 

[gsxr]

I have never heard of a reman sensor... wonder if the order would go through, or get cancelled? That is bizarre.

 

[JC220]

@JC220, Joe, thanks! What's your take on a MB remanufactured -5028 part vs new -4928. I know new is safer, just curious if you'd dare?

View attachment 125587

I have never heard of a reman sensor... wonder if the order would go through, or get cancelled? That is bizarre.

Yes never heard of that myself! Seems a bizarre part to offer as a reman.... I mean what part of it is re-used? Doesn't seem like a terribly good idea I'd stick with new.

Sorry Dave I tried but can't reach into the S430 far enough to open the windows or get at the hood release without potentially denting the dead S430 beside it. I will move cars around and get into the S500 this Sat and post photos then!



I even tried a broom with masking tape other the end to depress the window switches but the doors must not be opened far enough to activate them.

 

[Kyiv]

I have never heard of a reman sensor... wonder if the order would go through, or get cancelled? That is bizarre.

I called MB of Annapolis. Indeed, this was a gibberish.

 

[gsxr]

I called MB of Annapolis. Indeed, this was a gibberish.

So it doesn't exist, correct? Junk info on the site?

 

[Kyiv]

So it doesn't exist, correct? Junk info on the site?

yes!

 

[gsxr]

There is decent access from below. But there's no space to fit tools on to the bolt from below, or rotate a tool. Ideally you remove the bolt from above, and if you can't wiggle it free from above, try from below. Small hands will help.

 

[luckymike]

I did this job a couple weeks ago. I had to borrow a friend's very stubby allen socket along with my 1/4" universal to get the bolt out from above. There wasn't even room for a 90 degree allen wrench. If there was room, you could do this from below. You definitely want to remove the central gutter and throttle linkage. I was very worried about the sensor being stuck but it came out very easily.

 

[gsxr]

I used a 14" long, 1/4" drive extension with a swivel joint driver. Same setup for the rear/lower valve cover bolts.

 

[Kyiv]

That swivel joint is like $55 + shipping, IIC. I thought I'd never use it again

 

[gsxr]

Yeah, that Koken swivel is stoopid money for one little tool. Snap-on TUAM5E is another option, $57 list price.

Snap-on Store

shop.snapon.com

There's an off-brand set that's only ~$10/each but they are physically larger, and not as robust... may work ok though:

VIn Durston Mfg UJM400 - Google Shopping

www.google.com

 

[gerryvz]

If you are a long-term owner of an .034 or .036, it is DEFINITELY worth it to get the Snap-on swivel socket in 5mm. Yeah, it's $50, but it is much more robust than the off-brand ones you'll find (VIM, etc.) elsewhere. I actually broke my VIM swivel socket (the 6mm one) and when I did that, I ordered a Snap-on 6mm, and also a 5mm. The Ko-Ken is an alternative, but between it and Snap-on, I'd go Snap-on.





You can see the relatively heavier use on the 5mm swivel socket, mainly for cave cover use. And the extra VIM 5mm unit. The two Snap-ons are MUCH more robust.

Can anyone post up, for future folks reading this thread, some photos of the CKP sensor bolt/location so that there is a photo reference?

This is Clark Vader's snapped bolt photo from early in this thread.

Or actually perhaps do a full-on HOW-TO?

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[gsxr]

Received my "OEM Supplier" CKP today from AHAZ. It's Hella, made in Spain, identical to what RME is selling. Both are ~$70.

If anyone buys from FCP, please report what you receive. If they are selling a different/better item for $100, it would be nice to know:

Mercedes Crankshaft Position Sensor - OE Supplier 0031534928

Mercedes Crankshaft Position Sensor - OE Supplier 0031534928

www.fcpeuro.com

 

[gerryvz]

Received my "OEM Supplier" CKP today from AHAZ. It's Hella, made in Spain, identical to what RME is selling. Both are ~$70.

If anyone buys from FCP, please report what you receive. If they are selling a different/better item for $100, it would be nice to know:

Mercedes Crankshaft Position Sensor - OE Supplier 0031534928

Mercedes Crankshaft Position Sensor - OE Supplier 0031534928

www.fcpeuro.com

Would you rate the Hella CKP as being of good enough quality to put on your car?

 

[gsxr]

Would you rate the Hella CKP as being of good enough quality to put on your car?

I already did a few weeks ago, only because I had no other new CKP's on the shelf.

However, I'd prefer a Germany-made sensor if I could find any at <$100. I'm struggling with the $200 pricetag for OE.

[need cheapskate / penny-pinch emoji here]

 

[gerryvz]

Well, at least Hella is on the approved aftermarket parts vendor list. I think I would use it if I needed to.

There are worse COOs than Spain

 

[gsxr]

Hella-Behr has slowly been getting a hella bad reputation, although mostly on their Super China stuff. Just ask @jhodg5ck . Since this is Spain, I'm slightly more hopeful. Slightly.

EDIT: To clarify, the Hella CKP is straight aftermarket, non-OEM. I know, this is picking nits, but the difference is that MB had nothing to do with approving the design or materials for the aftermarket item. Hella did whatever they wanted. My gripe is that AHAZ and RME are listing this as "OEM" when it absolutely is not. They may argue the point, but they'd be wrong.

Normally I consider Hella to be good stuff, but they have been circling the drain over the past number of years, moving production to lower-cost countries. And I think Hella/Behr/Mahle are all in a tryst of some sort. What really concerns me is that the Hella CKP looks visually almost identical the the FAE sensor (click here). So is FAE reboxing Hella, or Hella reboxing FAE?