W202 C36 AMG With rare options

[195910]

Hi Everyone,

Back on the hunt for a Youngtimer benz (New corona era hobby), after two failed attempts earlier this year, I found a C36 AMG.
This last production year C36 has 2 unique options: 4 Sport seats and a 5 speed Automatic transmission. This would make it a rare example.

Any thoughts on these cars? My first non-V8 AMG.

 

[maw1124]

I love the cars but never knew they came with either of those options. The C43 with the 722.6 is an absolute hoot to drive but still an early AMG. So it’s a bit more raw than it has any right to be with the M113 and the 722.6, which to me is still one of the best engine and transmission combinations ever. Nice score. Enjoy!

maw

 

[2phast]

This would be a 1997 C36. It also has a unique designed steering wheel, only shared with the 99 CLK55 (euro model). It also has 8 more hp than the previous C36 models.

 

[Ntrepid]

Only I6 motor AMG ever touched until just a couple of years ago. The M104 is a great motor and the 3.6L is sublime. It has a lot of composure at low RPMs and then has a Mr. Hyde personality on the upper end of the spectrum.


Robert

 

[195910]

Thanks guys,

I was not looking for one but it kinda presented itself after I striked out on a couple of 55 AMGs
Also special about it: NO Sunroof ! That would have been a negative point 15 years ago but not now!

Its the first I've seen, this would have no wiring harness/throttle valve/distributors issues

let's see if it works out.

 

[msq]

Thanks guys,

I was not looking for one but it kinda presented itself after I striked out on a couple of 55 AMGs
Also special about it: NO Sunroof ! That would have been a negative point 15 years ago but not now!

Its the first I've seen, this would have no wiring harness/throttle valve/distributors issues

let's see if it works out.

This sounds like a great car. As you know, there cars are underrated. If you'd found one with some unusual options and it has been treated well, you can't go wrong with it. These '90's naturally aspirated AMG's were some of the best.

 

[2phast]

Thanks guys,

I was not looking for one but it kinda presented itself after I striked out on a couple of 55 AMGs
Also special about it: NO Sunroof ! That would have been a negative point 15 years ago but not now!

Its the first I've seen, this would have no wiring harness/throttle valve/distributors issues

let's see if it works out.

Almost all the C36's came with sunroofs as most buyers wanted them. This car would not of been a car ordered by a dealer for their inventory, so someone went to a dealer and spec'd out the C36 without a sunroof. Very rare.

 

[ccrelan]

The two person rear seats are very rare and cool option to have.

 

[maw1124]

The two person rear seats are very rare and cool option to have.

On ANY car... we love them in S and CL 55s and 65s when we can find them too... it was a bit of a pain in the E5E when I wanted to have 5 riders, but those days are now gone... the kids can drive the M3 now.

maw

 

[gsxr]

This last production year C36 has 2 unique options: 4 Sport seats and a 5 speed Automatic transmission. This would make it a rare example.

Is the 5-speed auto the 722.5, or the 722.6 transmission? Pretty sure all USA models had the 722.3 four-speed.

 

[ccrelan]

Is the 5-speed auto the 722.5, or the 722.6 transmission? Pretty sure all USA models had the 722.3 four-speed.

1997 cars has 3.07 gearing along with 722.6, ME fuel injection and different style two tone steering wheel

 

[2phast]

1997 cars has 3.07 gearing along with 722.6 and different style two tone steering wheels

Yep, the 97 had the 722.6 5G-Tronic

 

[gsxr]

Ah, got it. I thought that stuff happened with the switch to C43, I didn't realize there was a 1-year hybrid setup.

 

[Ntrepid]

Each of the 3 year run of the C36 had a unique enginer wiring harness. No forward nor rearward compatibility with other years. All NLA Now I believe. :-(

I wish MB would support special cars like this one (first AMG sold in MB dealerships) better even at a premium.


Robert

 

[2phast]

Each of the 3 year run of the C36 had a unique enginer wiring harness. No forward nor rearward compatibility with other years. All NLA Now I believe. :-(

I wish MB would support special cars like this one (first AMG sold in MB dealerships) better even at a premium.


Robert

The C36 is not the first AMG sold in dealerships, that special place in history is held by the 190E 3.2l AMG and the 300E 3.4l AMG

 

[195910]

Is the 5-speed auto the 722.5, or the 722.6 transmission? Pretty sure all USA models had the 722.3 four-speed.

Yep its a 722.6, option code 423.
The rear seats are option code 243

 

[195910]

Each of the 3 year run of the C36 had a unique enginer wiring harness. No forward nor rearward compatibility with other years. All NLA Now I believe. :-(

I wish MB would support special cars like this one (first AMG sold in MB dealerships) better even at a premium.


Robert

That is what we are trying to do. Affalterbach has realized they made a few mistakes.

 

[Ntrepid]

The C36 is not the first AMG sold in dealerships, that special place in history is held by the 190E 3.2l AMG and the 300E 3.4l AMG

Great clarification. The phrase “in the US” maybe should have been inserted in my statement.


Robert

 

[2phast]

Great clarification. The phrase “in the US” maybe should have been inserted in my statement.


Robert

Yes, concur, C36 first AMG to be sold in dealers across North America.

 

[msq]

Yes C36 AMG was first AMG sold worldwide (i.e also available in North America) by MB, and I believe was their first joint design (i.e. MB had their hands in the design from conception of the car)

 

[maw1124]

That is what we are trying to do. Affalterbach has realized they made a few mistakes.

Parts bin cars mean you have to keep all the parts bins full...



maw

 

[195910]

W202 C36 production was 5221 Units built, W210 E55 is around 12,000 Units.

M-B Museum Press release: The powerful C: Mercedes-Benz C 36 AMG.

Here is a 1997 5-Speed in the US, not the best example though:

 

[JAB12]

@195910 Did you get the car? These little AMG sedans are so underrated. I miss mine, having withdrawals of selling it for a few months now. Hopefully you can park the example you speak of soon in your stable.

 

[195910]

@195910 Did you get the car? These little AMG sedans are so underrated. I miss mine, having withdrawals of selling it for a few months now. Hopefully you can park the example you speak of soon in your stable.

Hi Jab,
Sale agreed, having it inspected as its +600KM away!
We will all find out this weekend

 

[2phast]

Yes C36 AMG was first AMG sold worldwide (i.e also available in North America) by MB, and I believe was their first joint design (i.e. MB had their hands in the design from conception of the car)

Like already mentioned, no it is not the first collab between Mercedes and AMG, the 190E 3.2l and 300E 3.4. were.

 

[msq]

Like already mentioned, no it is not the first collab between Mercedes and AMG, the 190E 3.2l and 300E 3.4. were.

My point was, as mentioned - from conception of the car. The 190 already existed as a model from MB by the time MB & AMG worked together on it. The C36 was the first AMG that they collaborated on from conception of the car (from drawing board to full production) and first one offered through dealers worldwide.
It seems like you are talking about first collaboration and I am talking about joint development of a brand new model from drawing board to dealer.

 

[ccrelan]

I recently bought this C36 from a friend of Predrag who is on the forum and had it shipped to the east coast.

It is a 1997 with a 6 speed swap, C43 seats, 3.45 diff, C280 sport carbon fiber trim, and C32 front brakes. We just swapped on stock wheels, springs, and shocks back on.

 

[2phast]

My point was, as mentioned - from conception of the car. The 190 already existed as a model from MB by the time MB & AMG worked together on it. The C36 was the first AMG that they collaborated on from conception of the car (from drawing board to full production) and first one offered through dealers worldwide.
It seems like you are talking about first collaboration and I am talking about joint development of a brand new model from drawing board to dealer.

The C36 is based off of the C280, which existed before the C36, so the W202 chassis is not a vehicle that AMG had anything to do with concerning development. Same is true for the 190E and 300E. Mercedes touts the C36 as the first collaboration between AMG/Mercedes, that is true for NA and possibly other regions but concerning the very first collaboration, which was a finished model with its own product lit that was available for purchase through Mercedes showrooms, its the 190E 3.2l in 1992, followed by the 300E 3.4l and 500SL. I don't know all the markets these were available in, but for sure Germany and the UK, as I have German lit and seen English lit for these models.

 

[195910]

I recently bought this C36 from a friend of Predrag who is on the forum and had it shipped to the east coast.

It is a 1997 with a 6 speed swap, C43 seats, 3.45 diff, C280 sport carbon fiber trim, and C32 front brakes. We just swapped on stock wheels, springs, and shocks back on.

Must be a blast to drive. These competed with the E36 M3, so I guess a 6-Speed swap made it into a weekend track car.

 

[ccrelan]

Must be a blast to drive. These competed with the E36 M3, so I guess a 6-Speed swap made it into a weekend track car.

It is very different from an auto car for sure. I actually have a 1995 C36 non-asr that was 5 speed swapped. It is in need of some repair work now. Eventually, I be listing one of them for sale when they are both running/driving 100% and can decide which one to keep.

 

[maw1124]

Must be a blast to drive. These competed with the E36 M3, so I guess a 6-Speed swap made it into a weekend track car.

If it comes anywhere close to the E36M, yes it is a blast to drive. I was always a V8 guy when I was coming of age to afford any of them.

I've never driven a 36 although I considered doing a 36 swap into an A124 to get a performance 4-seater convertible. I was wisely advised against it. The other two options were adding a turbocharger to an E36M Cabrio, or skipping the science project altogether in favor of the E46M Cabrio. I chose the latter one, and I've actually been very favorably surprised. I'm not a BMW fan by nature, but I have the ONE that I think is worth owning long term.

I agree with the video guy about German Straight Sixes... the power feels like it runs straight up the center of the car... and the S54 is QUICKLY going down as the best straight 6 BMW ever did.

maw

 

[maw1124]

It is very different from an auto car for sure. I actually have a 1995 C36 non-asr that was 5 speed swapped. It is in need of some repair work now. Eventually, I be listing one of them for sale when they are both running/driving 100% and can decide which one to keep.

@ccrelan and @2phast, did the Euro and North American versions of these vary, emissions wise? Like, did the US versions have catalytic converters shoved up into the downpipes? BMW was doing a lot of that during those years, and Audi followed suit by the early '00s.

So, for example, I'm probably going to get Euro headers on the E46M (widely available) to open up another few horses (provided my current tune can handle). Is it the same situation with these?

maw

 

[TerryA]

I almost bought a Black 95 Starmark C36. I test drove 2 or 3 of them along with 1 C43. I also drove a friends C43 in the UK from London to the coast and back but was more worried about staying on to me (the wrong side of the road while steering from the opposite side of the car than I was performance, after all it was my friends personal car) They were all a real hoot to drive with all of the power you could want. Even though I have more seat time in the C43 I liked the C36 much better than the because it was less figity and seemed to be more composed.

Anyway, I hesitated on the Starmark car and the next day it was gone. I was pretty bummed out about it but life went on. About 6 months later I ran across a Silver 97 C36 that had extremely low mileage and was pristine but the Guy wanted way more than I was willing to pay. So I passed on it.

One thing I forgot to mention on both the C36 and the C43 is for some reason I always felt cramped against the steering wheel. I have long arms and shorter legs and could not find a truly comfortable driving position.

Anyway due to US Emissions the US 95 C36s had 267HP where as the Euro model had I believe 276HP. When the 97 C36 came out the HP increased back up to the 276 along with a 5 Speed transmission. All else was pretty much the same. Later on Ted Reich of Transmeister told me the 5 Speeds were giving MB a lot of headaches.

Anyway, I ended up with my 500E and am thrilled that it turned out the way it did. So that’s my story and I’m sticking with it.

 

[TimL]

I almost bought a Black 95 Starmark C36. I test drove 2 or 3 of them along with 1 C43. I also drove a friends C43 in the UK from London to the coast and back but was more worried about staying on to me (the wrong side of the road while steering from the opposite side of the car than I was performance, after all it was my friends personal car) They were all a real hoot to drive with all of the power you could want. Even though I have more seat time in the C43 I liked the C36 much better than the because it was less figity and seemed to be more composed.

Totally agree with you, Terry. I had a C43 several years ago and for me it really fell short of the C36 with 5-speed automatic my dad had a few years earlier. The C36 felt so much more alive and raw. I always thought that AMG got really sloppy with the C43 with just a minor HP increase over the 4.3 engine it was based on. The C43 felt like an AMG badge job while the C36 felt like something special....

 

[PJmak]

No sunroof option is super rare on any w202.

My sister has owned a 98 c230 for over ten years and its still the only non sunroof w202 I've seen.


I owned a 95 c36 back in the day for a short time. C43 is a superior car in many aspects but a c36 is a bit more special in my opinion.

I still want a red c36 to go with my red c43.

 

[PJmak]

I recently bought this C36 from a friend of Predrag who is on the forum and had it shipped to the east coast.

It is a 1997 with a 6 speed swap, C43 seats, 3.45 diff, C280 sport carbon fiber trim, and C32 front brakes. We just swapped on stock wheels, springs, and shocks back on.

Lookin good man. Glad to hear its running good

 

[PJmak]

Totally agree with you, Terry. I had a C43 several years ago and for me it really fell short of the C36 with 5-speed automatic my dad had a few years earlier. The C36 felt so much more alive and raw. I always thought that AMG got really sloppy with the C43 with just a minor HP increase over the 4.3 engine it was based on. The C43 felt like an AMG badge job while the C36 felt like something special....

I dont see anything a c36 has that would justify this.

Not sure about gear ratios but a c43 is a way more linear torqy type of power while a c36 needs to be pushed to the redline. Suspension is basically the same. C43 has insane rotors for that era that gave it a stopping power of 96 feet from 60 to 0 which even by todays standards is insane.

M113 is actually a lighter motor vs a m104 inline 6........so based on the paper stats, a c43 should be a much more fun car. ,


C36 is special to me because it still carries that pre face lift feel of older mb cars such as 124s and early r129s while a c43 has a much newer feel to it.

c43 is definitely not just a badge job. c36 was a c280 rolled into amg assembly line while a c43 was completely assembled by amg. This alone would make the c36 a badge job wouldnt it

 

[195910]

I think its an unusual car, I've seen a few C36 Amg's but its the first time I have seen a 5-Speed & Bosch ME. This would make a big difference in the driving characteristics. The Head gasket is already replaced back in late 2000.

I too am biased towards the V8, but this I6 3.6 is much more special than the C43 engine. A proper AMG bigger displacement / modified block.

Lets hope it doesn't disappoint and we get the car, planning to do some videos about it.

 

[Rouven036]

The last gen C36 with the by that time new 722.6 and ME are nice. Keep in mind that they came by default with this transmission (no option) and ME since end '96 or so. I was happy too to get one of these. Even got the 4 seater and ski bag option...
Check while driving from slight grinding noises from the transmission. There is a bit of nasty possibility for failing transmission intermediate bearing of input/output shaft. Repair means replacement of the shafts which upgrades the initial setup (non replaceable bearing shell) to a (replaceable) roller bearing. Only can be inspected while dismantling the tranny. Try to find out if this has been done somewhen during the vehicles life.

 

[TimL]

I dont see anything a c36 has that would justify this.

Not sure about gear ratios but a c43 is a way more linear torqy type of power while a c36 needs to be pushed to the redline. Suspension is basically the same. C43 has insane rotors for that era that gave it a stopping power of 96 feet from 60 to 0 which even by todays standards is insane.

M113 is actually a lighter motor vs a m104 inline 6........so based on the paper stats, a c43 should be a much more fun car. ,


C36 is special to me because it still carries that pre face lift feel of older mb cars such as 124s and early r129s while a c43 has a much newer feel to it.

c43 is definitely not just a badge job. c36 was a c280 rolled into amg assembly line while a c43 was completely assembled by amg. This alone would make the c36 a badge job wouldnt it

The changes AMG made to the m113 base engine yielded, to me, mediocre results, compare to an E430 and I've driven all three cars extensively (c36, C43, E430). What a car looks like on paper is one thing and how it actually feels can be a completely different thing. To me, and that is merely my opinion, the C36 felt more visceral and was more fun to drive than the C43. You and others may feel differently about it and that's ok

 

[PJmak]

The changes AMG made to the m113 base engine yielded, to me, mediocre results, compare to an E430 and I've driven all three cars extensively (c36, C43, E430). What a car looks like on paper is one thing and how it actually feels can be a completely different thing. To me, and that is merely my opinion, the C36 felt more visceral and was more fun to drive than the C43. You and others may feel differently about it and that's ok

Sure and I agree I am just struggling to find anything on a c36b that would suggest that its a better car to drive

I love both cars equally and have owned both.

 

[195910]

Here is another good reason: C36 AMG was the first ever AMG F1 Safety car! in the 1996-1997 Seasons, Hill vs Schumacher times.

It was both the Safety and Medical car. C43 estate was a medical in the 1998 - 1999 seasons

Now I am seriously thinking of this F1 Safety car Livery...

 

[PJmak]

Yea those are nice. The c43 wagon medical car sat on two piece bbs rims and looked amazing.

I think they opted out for the clk as a safety car for obvious reasons in the late 90s

That livery should be east to recreate no? Is your c36 silver?

 

[msq]

The C36 is based off of the C280, which existed before the C36, so the W202 chassis is not a vehicle that AMG had anything to do with concerning development. Same is true for the 190E and 300E. Mercedes touts the C36 as the first collaboration between AMG/Mercedes, that is true for NA and possibly other regions but concerning the very first collaboration, which was a finished model with its own product lit that was available for purchase through Mercedes showrooms, its the 190E 3.2l in 1992, followed by the 300E 3.4l and 500SL. I don't know all the markets these were available in, but for sure Germany and the UK, as I have German lit and seen English lit for these models.

Some relevant facts:

- The 190 existed, and was designed solely by Mercedes - well before the collaboration on the 190 3.2L with AMG i.e. AMG had zero to do with 190 design and development. The 190 3.2 was a *conversion* of an existing car that MB had designed, on its own, much the the E60 was a *conversion* of the E500E (and yes even the 957 option codes are just converted E5E's....unlike aftermarket conversions, where the 957's were were jointly built as new cars, but it was 100% E500E model conversion). The C36 is definitely not a "conversion" of a 280.

- The reason, as you say Mercedes touts the C36 as the first collaboration between AMG/Mercedes, was because the C36 was *the first* model that MB & AMG co-designed and developed from scratch. The C36, while based on the same platform as a 280 - was NOT a conversion of a 280, nor was the C43. The fact that they use some of the same platform as C280 is irrelevant. The C36 & C43 started life as joint design, development and manufacturing with AMG - NOT conversion of an existing prior MB models like the 190 3.2. & E60 were originally. Just like a BMW M3 is not a "converted" 335. the C36 is not a converted 280. The C36 did not exist as a model prior to the MB/AMG collaboration, unlike the 190 & E5E, which did and had zero input from AMG at their inception. The C36 has lots of input and collaboration and its inception. The fact that AMG worked with MB after those two cars were designed (190 & E5E) and upgraded things like engine and suspension is wholly different than conceiving, designing and purpose building a car from scratch - which is what happened with the C36 (and C43).

The fact that the C36 was the first model offered worldwide based on MB & AMG collaboration, is a separate point, but there's no way anyone could call a C36 (or C43) some conversion from another car - which is exactly what the 190 3.2 and E60 was. The 190 3.2 was a conversion of a 190 model ....its right there is the name 190....that existed before AMG collaboration on the 3.2 version; and the E60 was a conversion of the E5E model.....they were converted from other "existing models".

I tend to believe MB when they tout the C36 as the first collaboration. You can have your own definition of what the first joint collaboration is - I am not being facetious - its a legitimate definition of that since they did "collaborate" on the 190 3.2 but again that was AFTER MB had designed the 190 on its own.

 

[maw1124]

What a car looks like on paper is one thing and how it actually feels can be a completely different thing. To me, and that is merely my opinion, the C36 felt more visceral and was more fun to drive than the C43. You and others may feel differently about it and that's ok

This has always been a fascinating topic for me, for this car and others. BMW relies upon this, it seems to me. Cars driven closer to redline "feel" more fun, than a big lazy V8 which moves the MPH needle a lot faster than it does the RPM needle. Those who preferred the M5 of its day over the E5E seem like the most obvious examples of this. And I can dig it. The E5E (and S55) feel affirmatively sedate at 100mph, whereas the M3 (3.2L in-line 6) and Allroad (4.2L V8) are more invigorating at that speed, for no other reason than the RPMs are higher, there's more intake and exhaust necessary to make it happen, etc. The noise and hi-rev is fun.

Just today headed to dinner I was in traffic fiddling with something in the S55, still in 4th and I looked up and was almost in someone's back seat doing 90mph. It simply hadn't occurred to me that I needed to shift again, so low were the RPMs. Car was well beneath 4K rpm... it didn't even command my full attention much less invigorate me.

I can see that being the issue with the C36 v C43 comparison. But the last C43 I drove was about a year ago, had the resonators removed courtesy of a custom exhaust, and I was very well exhilarated but couldn't make it out of 3rd gear... run that puppy to redline and it's howling... I needed more space.

This has also played out for me in a Gallardo vs an F430... the Ferrari felt more fun but I'm sure the Gallardo was quicker and more composed, at least on the track I was on.

maw

 

[sheward]

Yes! I've been driving big V8s so long now I miss the experience of pushing a powerful 6 cylinder. I'll fulfill that urge with the 3.6 in the future.

drew

 

[195910]

Quick Update: Deal is done. Car was inspected, 3 previous owners and a Complete service book.

Pics Next weekend!

 

[PJmak]

Spotted this earlier.

 

[Ntrepid]

Quick Update: Deal is done. Car was inspected, 3 previous owners and a Complete service book.

Pics Next weekend!

Congrats! What color?


Robert

 

[195910]

Spotted this earlier.

View attachment 130798

Mysteriously, I start spotting the type of car I am buying on the streets! Happens before every car purchase!
Since there is no C36 around here, a short drive yesterday I saw no less than 3 AMGs including an SLS. Also a few youngtimer M-Bs.

When I was looking at a W163/W164 ML, I was seeing them all over the places.. like in every parking lot!