W202 C36 AMG With rare options

[maw1124]

Update,

O2 sensor changed today, the car definitely runs better and low end torque is not reasonable.
Did a 0-100km/h sprint in less than 6.5 Seconds, and a couple of WOT pulls to 180.

Technically the car is done. Polishing this weekend for a photoshoot.

I'm sorry... low end torque is NOT reasonable? Or not UNreasonable? If the former, I feel your pain, and wonder if it has something to do with inline engines v Vs. The E46M is a torqueless wonder as well.

Cheers,

maw

"Low end torque is NOW reasonable"... I get it... I've never driven one and power was always the question so I was curious... the C43 certainly gets down the road though... "reasonable" is probably the perfect description.

 

[195910]

I'm sorry... low end torque is NOT reasonable? Or not UNreasonable? If the former, I feel your pain, and wonder if it has something to do with inline engines v Vs. The E46M is a torqueless wonder as well.

Cheers,

maw

Sorry a typing error.

Torque is great now ... for a 6 Cylinder.. you know what I mean

 

[195910]

I do have a new small issue:

AC was just serviced. But now AC runs great for a minute then AUX fans swtich off and AC goes warm.
I checked the compressor clutch and its engaging plus the blower is running full blast, it was 17c today so not the best weather to check.
I can see the freon flowing in the drier, but once the AUX fans switch off the flow stops although the compressor is running.

 

[195910]

Now I know what what loose plug is for, Temperature switch on the AC drier!!

But there was no Temperature switch on the Drier.. Is it possible that it does not have one!? there is no codes stored.
There is a pressure switch, I even unplugged it and the Aux fans went full blast (code stored)

Drier is an original M-B Hansa unit.

 

[195910]

Update,

Exterior Detailing complete, need to finish the seats now. Now looks like its a 2017 C36

Emissions inspection passed.

As for the AC, yet another strange finding, it does not have a temperature sensor on the AC drier! EPC shows the part as not valid for this VIN.
Only a Pressure sensor is valid, so no missing parts here.

Could it be a bad pressure sensor? Causing the Aux fans to switch off. I can actuate the aux fans at all speeds, so nothing wrong with the fans or actuation.

 

[JAB12]

Great looking car and what a setting!

 

[195910]

A few more angles,

The W202 is solid built car, 25 years later it drives like a proper small Mercedes, if it wasn't for the "Eco-friendly" paint issue they would probably all be on the road somewhere.

Could it be that M-B deliberately made this? I mean if everyone is driving an old Mercedes, who would buy a new car? j/k

 

[195910]

The wheels are a wheel point in this car's design. the rears are fine but the front looks weird with convex centers.

A set of unrestored, period correct Carlsson 2/6 2 piece wheels. A square setup of 8.5X17 ET32 in the original tire sizes.
Wheels are made by OZ-racing in 1997, the fastners are titanium and the centers are concave (yes concave in the 1990s !)
I am running 5mm spacers in the back to get the front and rear equally flush, the barrel still needs to be polished.

I leave you to decide if that is true or if I am just making up excuses to get new wheel for the C36.

 

[PJmak]

Definetly need that staggered look on these bodies.

 

[maw1124]

The wheels are a wheel point in this car's design. the rears are fine but the front looks weird with convex centers.

A set of unrestored, period correct Carlsson 2/6 2 piece wheels. A square setup of 8.5X17 ET32 in the original tire sizes.
Wheels are made by OZ-racing in 1997, the fastners are titanium and the centers are concave (yes concave in the 1990s !)
I am running 5mm spacers in the back to get the front and rear equally flush, the barrel still needs to be polished.

I leave you to decide if that is true or if I am just making up excuses to get new wheel for the C36.

The car is looking sick and proper right now... yes, you're making excuses to get new wheels... and that's OK... I said what I said.

;-D

maw

 

[ccrelan]

I might have the sport fender badges somewhere. If I can find them they are all yours for cost of shipping.

 

[PJmak]

Any more updates on this beauty?

 

[195910]

Any more updates on this beauty?

Hi @PJmak

Yes I started a separate thread about the idle issue I have. I need to find a way to check the spray pattern of the injector or clean the injectors without removing them. M104 idle diagnosis: injector spray pattern? | Off-Topic Discussions

I already got everything else sorted, It was an educational experience for me this summer. I gained a lot of experience in the M104 diagnosis and Bosch 2.1. I really like the simplicity of the Bosch 2.1/2.8 which provides all the functionality needed without the complexity of xentry and the crap of online coding... you really don't need more electronics.
25 years later the M104 still performs well and much more enjoyable to drive than my 2018 E250(E300).
But the M119 and M113 are easier to work on! The M104 intake system is complicated and a bit fragile, though these MY97 cars are the best with no EGR and secondary pump from factory and tons of revised parts.

 

[PJmak]

Glad to hear you are taking good care of her.

Post more pictures when you can

 

[maw1124]

Hi @PJmak

Yes I started a separate thread about the idle issue I have. I need to find a way to check the spray pattern of the injector or clean the injectors without removing them. M104 idle diagnosis: injector spray pattern? | Off-Topic Discussions

I already got everything else sorted, It was an educational experience for me this summer. I gained a lot of experience in the M104 diagnosis and Bosch 2.1. I really like the simplicity of the Bosch 2.1/2.8 which provides all the functionality needed without the complexity of xentry and the crap of online coding... you really don't need more electronics.
25 years later the M104 still performs well and much more enjoyable to drive than my 2018 E250(E300).
But the M119 and M113 are easier to work on! The M104 intake system is complicated and a bit fragile, though these MY97 cars are the best with no EGR and secondary pump from factory and tons of revised parts.

That’s a great overview IMO… the electronics in the M119 and M113 produce rewarding driving experiences to me, whereas by 2018 they’re in the way of the car… you’ve got to wrestle control of the car away from the computers and they won’t let you... glad you got the C36 fettled and settled.

Cheers,

maw

 

[195910]

New update!

- As mentioned in another thread, I am ordering a set of refurb and tested injectors as one of the injectors starts to act up when warm, no fault codes nor hesitation. Just that if left to heat soak for a couple of hours, it will start but idle not as smooth as when it was cold. Adaptation of the idle speed is reducing injection time due to a false rich issue, I suspect this is caused bad a sticking or leaking injector.

- I discovered a Dealership screw up!
The rear defroster and the AC/Heater temperature control were not working, the heater was too hot even when I scroll the temperature dials to 16 degrees (Blue) . After multiple diagnostic runs, hours of research and changing the AC swtich, temp sensor and duo valves, I found out that the duo valves were not receiving power, nor was the rear screen defroster. I Toke the Wiper/defroster Relay out to clean it and check solder points (for the second time).. then I realized..wait, is this the right part?! does not look the same as what I am seeing in posts and repair instructions.
I checked the part number it turned out to be a W201 number for the older 1993-1995 cars! this car should have a W202 part number relay.
Can't believe they didn't bother to read the foot notes in EPC about the VIN number.

- I ordered a new OE relay, lets see if it fixes these issues. This will definitely fix the AC issue as well !!

- Having fun daily driving the C36, winter tires are on and there is not much snow/salt here.. does 600KM with one tank before the reserve light is on, Tank is 62L and reserve is 9L.. Humiliated many Alfas, Abarths, small bimmers

 

[ccrelan]

New update!

- As mentioned in another thread, I am ordering a set of refurb and tested injectors as one of the injectors starts to act up when warm, no fault codes nor hesitation. Just that if left to heat soak for a couple of hours, it will start but idle not as smooth as when it was cold. Adaptation of the idle speed is reducing injection time due to a false rich issue, I suspect this is caused bad a sticking or leaking injector.

- I discovered a Dealership screw up!
The rear defroster and the AC/Heater temperature control were not working, the heater was too hot even when I scroll the temperature dials to 16 degrees (Blue) . After multiple diagnostic runs, hours of research and changing the AC swtich, temp sensor and duo valves, I found out that the duo valves were not receiving power, nor was the rear screen defroster. I Toke the Wiper/defroster Relay out to clean it and check solder points (for the second time).. then I realized..wait, is this the right part?! does not look the same as what I am seeing in posts and repair instructions.
I checked the part number it turned out to be a W201 number for the older 1993-1995 cars! this car should have a W202 part number relay.
Can't believe they didn't bother to read the foot notes in EPC about the VIN number.

- I ordered a new OE relay, lets see if it fixes these issues. This will definitely fix the AC issue as well !!

- Having fun daily driving the C36, winter tires are on and there is not much snow/salt here.. does 600KM with one tank before the reserve light is on, Tank is 62L and reserve is 9L.. Humiliated many Alfas, Abarths, small bimmers

Where is the wiper/defrost relay located? Was it in the trunk or under the hood? The rear defrost is not working in my 97 car and I have not bothered to diagnose yet.

 

[svhamelly]

Hi Everyone,

Back on the hunt for a Youngtimer benz (New corona era hobby), after two failed attempts earlier this year, I found a C36 AMG.
This last production year C36 has 2 unique options: 4 Sport seats and a 5 speed Automatic transmission. This would make it a rare example.

Any thoughts on these cars? My first non-V8 AMG.

Go for it!!!
I can't see how you can go wrong with an early AMG as long as the condition and price are right.

 

[195910]

Go for it!!!
I can't see how you can go wrong with an early AMG as long as the condition and price are right.

Already did! own it now for 7 month.

 

[195910]

Where is the wiper/defrost relay located? Was it in the trunk or under the hood? The rear defrost is not working in my 97 car and I have not bothered to diagnose yet.

Its the left (driver side) fuse box in the engine compartment, just remove the fuse box cover (6 screws) to access the relay box in the back.
It the 2nd largest relay. If its a MY1997 its part number A2028204626.

But you don't need to change it! in most cases you just need to re-solder and clean the relay's contact points.
Unfortunately in my case a technician had replaced it with the wrong part number, this was annoying me for month!!

 

[svhamelly]

Already did! own it now for 7 month.

OK, guess I'm a little slow on the uptake

 

[2phast]

New update!

- As mentioned in another thread, I am ordering a set of refurb and tested injectors as one of the injectors starts to act up when warm, no fault codes nor hesitation. Just that if left to heat soak for a couple of hours, it will start but idle not as smooth as when it was cold. Adaptation of the idle speed is reducing injection time due to a false rich issue, I suspect this is caused bad a sticking or leaking injector.

- I discovered a Dealership screw up!
The rear defroster and the AC/Heater temperature control were not working, the heater was too hot even when I scroll the temperature dials to 16 degrees (Blue) . After multiple diagnostic runs, hours of research and changing the AC swtich, temp sensor and duo valves, I found out that the duo valves were not receiving power, nor was the rear screen defroster. I Toke the Wiper/defroster Relay out to clean it and check solder points (for the second time).. then I realized..wait, is this the right part?! does not look the same as what I am seeing in posts and repair instructions.
I checked the part number it turned out to be a W201 number for the older 1993-1995 cars! this car should have a W202 part number relay.
Can't believe they didn't bother to read the foot notes in EPC about the VIN number.

- I ordered a new OE relay, lets see if it fixes these issues. This will definitely fix the AC issue as well !!

- Having fun daily driving the C36, winter tires are on and there is not much snow/salt here.. does 600KM with one tank before the reserve light is on, Tank is 62L and reserve is 9L.. Humiliated many Alfas, Abarths, small bimmers

I don't think you saw anything referring to the W201 from 93-95, W201 production ended in 93. 94/95 model years would of been the W202.

Not all parts carry the same designator as the chassis. There are W140 part numbers used on the W124 and even W202 part numbers and even a few R129 part numbers. For your situation, I would refer directly to the EPC to verify what part number is suppose to be used.

 

[195910]

I don't think you saw anything referring to the W201 from 93-95, W201 production ended in 93. 94/95 model years would of been the W202.

Not all parts carry the same designator as the chassis. There are W140 part numbers used on the W124 and even W202 part numbers and even a few R129 part numbers. For your situation, I would refer directly to the EPC to verify what part number is suppose to be used.

I understand what you mean. what I referred to is the W202 C36 from 1993-1995, as these had a combination relay with the A201 part number (per the EPC), while the 1996-1997 C36 with the newer W210 style AC switch has a A202 part number.

We will find out this weekend if the correct relay solves everything, I asked a few M-B technicians about this and all got stuck...I never though M-B Switzerland would screw up like this

 

[195910]

New Update:

Changed the combination relay with a brand new original unit with the correct part number. ITS FIXED!
Defroster works perfectly, wiper stage 1 and indicators.
Now I need to clear codes and test the duo valves.

No fix is better than half a$$ fix

I also received a set of professionally overhauled original injectors, they look like new!
The 1997 has a different injector than earlier cars, fortunately its the same injectors as the 1997/1998 W140 S320.

 

[ccrelan]

Can you share the part # for the combination relay you replaced?

 

[PJmak]

Probably the K2 relay under the hood

 

[195910]

Can you share the part # for the combination relay you replaced?

Sure, A2028204626.

 

[195910]

Probably the K2 relay under the hood

Not sure what they call it, its a combination Relay that controls a number of systems:

Stage 1 (interval) Wiper
Flasher
Rear defroster
And hopefully the duovalves

 

[195910]

This didn't go according to plan. The correct Relay did solve the defroster and wiper issues, but the fault codes for the duo valves and circulation pump are still stored even after clearing the fault codes on the ACC module.

There is no voltage across the valves nor the circulation pump. I can adjust the temperature control (live data shows the correct temperature as with the dial position), but duo valve is not closing nor is the pump switching on. I tried 2 AC switches including the latest number, and I also connected another working duo valve.

valves are fully open giving full heat even with AC on (which explains the warm AC last summer).

Is there a separate fuse or relay for these?

Out of ideas right now : /

 

[195910]

Fixed!

Again a screw up by M-B der Schweiz, but this time they have an excuse. The fuse chart on the fuse box states FUSE 12 for Automatic AC, and no fuse was in that. I had assumed it was not applicable to this car as this car has manual AC.

10A fuse installed in F12: duo valves and circulation pump work! no fault codes, I tested with the actuation function as well.

Lesson learned.

Next March its gets a minor service at the dealership (to keep the check book complete) and a set of Injectors. But technically it is done.

 

[maw1124]

I've actually had similar issues with my S55 AMG, where what published W220 fuse charts say and what's on my car aren't exactly the same. I may or may not change anything, but I'll text someone who knows and ask first. One of the few drawbacks with rare cars sometimes.

Glad you could get that sorted.

maw

 

[195910]

I've actually had similar issues with my S55 AMG, where what published W220 fuse charts say and what's on my car aren't exactly the same. I may or may not change anything, but I'll text someone who knows and ask first. One of the few drawbacks with rare cars sometimes.

Glad you could get that sorted.

maw

There are also fuses in the trunk and in the cab-bus box, none of which are mentioned in the fuse chart.

 

[Duh_Vinci]

Glad you hade it resolved, indeed can be frustrating!

Regards,
D

 

[195910]

Glad you hade it resolved, indeed can be frustrating!

Regards,
D

Thanks Bro, now I just need to change the injectors with the overhauled units. One injector is acting up only when warm, M104 injectors are a PITA to remove... V8s are easy.

 

[195910]

To update the thread, I had the car serviced at the dealership last March and now drive it on a daily basis!
A set of overhauled injectors have been fitted (New OE is NLA) but the car still ran rich at Idle! Got Angry and started to look at everything again, I had the FPR checked several times, and it was replaced by M-B switzerland, they even sprayed it with factory wax. I scrapped the wax a little bit to read the part number and to find the spec, I typed the part number ending 1589 into the EPC... "Not Valid for this vehicle".. WTF!!

25 Euros and 20 minutes later, a new FPR with the correct number solved this rich idle issue. Our member on the forum @Benzer had the exact same problem. The 1589 is for the 4 cylinder cars.. so the PO probably paid about 250 Euro for M-B to fit the Wrong part!

Swiss cars have a reputation for being well maintained and documented, This car is a fine example of that. But it also demonstrates the issues faced by Youngtimer M-Bs and the dwindling knowledge and experience of M-B dealers in Europe.

 

[195910]

Now that the adaptation is correct, I can see one more issue clearly. I am suspecting a slow MAF which I cleaned twice but still behaves strangely, its pegged at 16KG/H and only fluctuates to 12KG or 20KG a couple of times in a minute.

M119 measurements fluctuate several times a second and withen 2K/h, so this is abnormal. Has anyone tested the MAF of an M104 ME? do readings fluctuates at a high rate as with the V8s ?

Thanks in advance

 

[195910]

Checked the live data again, the MAF is pegged at 16KG at idle with an occasional drop to 12KG after several second.

- No Fault codes (typical!)
- If I blip the throttle the MAF reading will not change, just if I increase the throttle gradually will it respond and increase the readings.
- I disconnected the MAF and the engine did not switch off, only after revving will it stumble switch off. Actually runs better at idle.
- Switched on the A/C and MAF values stayed the same but occasionally jumps to 20 instead of dropping to 12.
- Induced a lean condition, the O2 immediately responded and started to compensate, so the Lambda loop is working.
- Sprayed the intake system for like the 4th time.. nothing apparent, the fact that O2 is very responsive and corrects for lean condition indicate a functioning lambda system, even if there was a slight leak the ECU would have compensated by adding fuel, which is not the case here.
- Cleaned MAF for the second time, no change.

90% sure its the MAF? well, I am reluctant to change anything without proof.
Only one way to be sure, I need to see the MAF live data of another M104 engine, anyone have a link to a video or readings? Just need to see how MAF responds.

Thanks

 

[195910]

An update on this.

I had a bad misfire with code P303 last week which turned out to be a bad spark plug (replaced last year). This particular spark plug looked dark but no oil. The 5 other spark plugs look lean (white), used the camera to look into the cylinders and all 6 pistons also look too clean..WTH!

Replaced MAF, car is more responsive and has better torque driving uphill, lets see how it adapts after a few drives. I might be the slow MAF causing the lean condition, or we still have a vacuum leak somewhere?

 

[Bilbobaggins]

Hi Everyone,

Back on the hunt for a Youngtimer benz (New corona era hobby), after two failed attempts earlier this year, I found a C36 AMG.
This last production year C36 has 2 unique options: 4 Sport seats and a 5 speed Automatic transmission. This would make it a rare example.

Any thoughts on these cars? My first non-V8 AMG.

Hi, I'm in the UK and saw your thread, i have a 1997 C36 5 speed with sports seats in the back, no sunroof and no ASR, theres about 20 1997 models in the UK and I've never seen another with this spec, happy motoring!

 

[195910]

Hi, I'm in the UK and saw your thread, i have a 1997 C36 5 speed with sports seats in the back, no sunroof and no ASR, theres about 20 1997 models in the UK and I've never seen another with this spec, happy motoring!

Hi, what a coincidence, post pics if you can.

I am fixing a few small items today, will post an update.

Cheers and happy motoring.

 

[195910]

Summer update on the C36:

- Idle issue fixed! after €€€€, issue turns out to be an M104 specific weak ground issue...f€%# !!
- AC recharged
- Foglights alignment is a PITA!, I had to take the front bumper out.

So its done, cool little AMG. I am now in the market for a S-class to do some long distance traveling, so the C36 is for sale.
I would keep it if I had the space, cause its a nimble car with low maintenance cost and relatively low consumption (It can do 600-650KM on a tank of 62L). But need the bigger cars that are more comfortable in the +1000km long trips.

 

[weide1]

I wonder how much bore and stroke this one has?
Regular AMG 3.6 = 91 x 92,4 mm = 3606 cm³.
92 mm bore would still only make it 3685 cm³. HWA must have made a crank with bigger stroke, i suppose?
Carlsson engineer Lothar Rau made one with 94,5 mm stroke, but it seems unlikely HWA used this.



And i wonder in which countries this 191 kW C36 was sold.

 

[744Brillantsilber]

Hey,
Just saw the add for your Car!
https://m.mobile.de/auto-inserat/mercedes-benz-mercedes-benz-c36-amg-5-gang-ab-werk-echternacherbrück/364414700.html?searchId=30b826cf-0af6-c16c-9c37-f774948dd6ec&ref=srp&type=ad
The price seems a bit low to me for such a nice car, good luck with the sale!

 

[195910]

Hey,
Just saw the add for your Car!
https://m.mobile.de/auto-inserat/mercedes-benz-mercedes-benz-c36-amg-5-gang-ab-werk-echternacherbrück/364414700.html?searchId=30b826cf-0af6-c16c-9c37-f774948dd6ec&ref=srp&type=ad
The price seems a bit low to me for such a nice car, good luck with the sale!

Hi @744Brillantsilber,

Yes I have another AMG arriving, so I have to let go.

 

[195910]

I decided to keep the C36! A Historically important yet simple to maintain AMG that will certainly appreciate in value.
With a full service history and no rust, I sent it to where it will never see salt nor damp conditions.

 

[yao500e]

I decided to keep the C36! A Historically important yet simple to maintain AMG that will certainly appreciate in value.
With a full service history and no rust, I sent it to where it will never see salt nor damp conditions.

I am so late to this C36 thread. a belated congrats to you!

I hope you still have the C36 and will keep it a long time or forever.

I have to admit, I enjoy driving my '95 C36 more than the w124 E500 and w210 E50 AMG. The small coupe size of the c36, the gearing and AMG work of the 722.3 transmission as well as the growl of the M104 3.6L motor is just incredible.

I joke with my 993 and 996 Porsche 911 buddies and tell them I have a 1990s era 4 door Porsche with the C36. nearly the same size weight and an inline 6 cyl. Also, i believe Benz helped with Porsche with 4 speed transmission for their tiptronic cars.

I'm toying with the idea of buying a 2nd C36. haha

 

[195910]

I am so late to this C36 thread. a belated congrats to you!

I hope you still have the C36 and will keep it a long time or forever.

I have to admit, I enjoy driving my '95 C36 more than the w124 E500 and w210 E50 AMG. The small coupe size of the c36, the gearing and AMG work of the 722.3 transmission as well as the growl of the M104 3.6L motor is just incredible.

I joke with my 993 and 996 Porsche 911 buddies and tell them I have a 1990s era 4 door Porsche with the C36. nearly the same size weight and an inline 6 cyl. Also, i believe Benz helped with Porsche with 4 speed transmission for their tiptronic cars.

I'm toying with the idea of buying a 2nd C36. haha

Hi Yao,

Yes I still have the car. We did a lot of preventative repairs and maintenance which had an awesome effect!

- New fuel pump + Filter (was the factory installed pump!)
- Serviced the EVAP canister (clogged by previous owner topping up the tank)
- New Denso AC compressor with Accessories + AC service. (AC compressor low pressure)
- Parking Brake Pads.
- Valve cover with all seals and timing cover gasket. (It was done previously by M-B Switzerland and they used sealant!! So it had to be redone)

The I think the biggest change came from the EVAP and fuel pump as the car is surprisingly responsive! AC is ice cold and I think the Denso design is updated because power loss is less noticeable with AC on.

Try to find a 1997 C36 AMG, Should be way more fun to drive. BTW these have the same transmission as the E55 722.6 not the weaker S320/E320 722.5

 

[yao500e]

Yep, the 97 had the 722.6 5G-Tronic

Hi 2phast, some 4 speed C36's have the Sport Economy switch and some do not.

Seems like all USA C36's never came with the Sport Economy switch so its always in Sport mode 1st gear start? thanks

 

[gsxr]

Seems like all USA C36's never came with the Sport Economy switch so its always in Sport mode 1st gear start? thanks

I'm not sure if this applies to the C36 specifically, but on the 124 chassis, any 722.3 four-speed with the E/S switch had zero effect on what gear the transmission starts in. The E/S switch only affected the control pressure (Bowden) cable signal, more info here. This does not change between FGS and SGS... however, the later 722.6 electronic five-speed with W/S (Winter/Summer) switch did change between FGS and SGS.

 

[195910]

The 5-Speed C36 AMG starts from First gear when the switch is in position S. Making it very responsive from stand still.