Center Console Bulb

[gsxr]

AFAIK, the blue/gray illumination wire is separate from the switch functionality... so a window switch may work fine, but if none illuminate, something is up with the blue/gray circuit.

 

[Kyiv]

I replaced the left side vent bulb with a new one and it still won't illuminate

Same thing, replacement bulbs in side air vents don't illuminate... My HVAC, center air vent, hazard lights button light up and all windows switches raise/lower all windows. Stereo works too. Transmission light doesn't work either

I have this happy occurrence going on behind my head unit... the wires flowing out onto my front passenger seat in the picture are dead-ended. Whomever did this should be an amputee

 

[emerydc8]

Transmission light doesn't work either

My transmission light bulb is out too. though I don't know if it's connected to the center and side vent bulbs being out.

 

[Kyiv]

My transmission light bulb is out too. though I don't know if it's connected to the center and side vent bulbs being out.

It's most likely is. I've tried replacing transmission bulb some time ago to no avail. Do you have a bunch of dead-ended wires behind your head-unit?

 

[Kyiv]

@Jlaa, does blue and pink wire junctions in my pic look "aftermarket"?

 

[Jlaa]

@Jlaa, does blue and pink wire junctions in my pic look "aftermarket"?

Yes. Those pink and blue vampire taps are tapping wires from the black connector. The black connector would otherwise plug into the factory Becker. Also there is what appears to be a black rubber/flip open holder for a blade fuse too, which would not be OE.

 

[emerydc8]

It's most likely is. I've tried replacing transmission bulb some time ago to no avail. Do you have a bunch of dead-ended wires behind your head-unit?

No. I have a factory unit and I didn’t see any evidence of tampering with the wire bundles last time I had the head out.

 

[Kyiv]

Yes. Those pink and blue vampire taps are tapping wires from the black connector. The black connector would otherwise plug into the factory Becker. Also there is what appears to be a black rubber/flip open holder for a blade fuse too, which would not be OE.

Since those dead-ended wires were tapping into Becker's power they would not be related in any way to no illumination in windows switches because that's a completely different, far way, electrical riverbed, way downstream?

 

[Jlaa]

Since those dead-ended wires were tapping into Becker's power they would not be related in any way to no illumination in windows switches because that's a completely different, far way, electrical riverbed, way downstream?

This may help you- note grey is illumination. If I were you, I would start by trying to get back to a known state —- delete all that aftermarket wiring.

 

[Kyiv]

@Jlaa, thanks mate! My stereo does illuminate. I assume to get a good look and for proper tempering with all of the wiring behind head unit a removal of HVAC module is required?

 

[Jlaa]

@Jlaa, thanks mate! My stereo does illuminate. I assume to get a good look and for proper tempering with all of the wiring behind head unit a removal of HVAC module is required?

Go for it! The center console wood is very straightforward to disassemble, thus exposing the HVAC unit and all the wiring.

 

[Kyiv]

@emerydc8, mate, did you ever resolve transmission gear selector and vent opening wheel illumination problem?

 

[Kyiv]

I'd like to take another tackle at the absent illumination of window switches, gear selector, and left and right wheels that open/close vents (everything else illuminates). It's definitely not a bulb out issue.

Below is the photo of the abyss. Sometime someone tapped into the headunit power cable, but tapped wires no longer lead anywhere. I've no idea what it ever was. However, I can't get a close look in there from the current vantage point, with just headunit and ashtray removed.

What should I do to get in there? Remove HVAC panel, or the whole transmission tunnel console? @Jlaa, @gsxr, @2phast, others - how would you go about getting deeper in there to examine the situation? I need a push and a shove.

 

[Kyiv]

Just parking it here for ease of finding it (How to remove center console):

http://www.karlovaauto.ee/Tauno/images/MB230E_92/161111_W124_Center_Console_Disassembly.pdf

 

[Jlaa]

Just parking it here for ease of finding it (How to remove center console):

http://www.karlovaauto.ee/Tauno/images/MB230E_92/161111_W124_Center_Console_Disassembly.pdf

@kiev,

Is it possible (just guessing now) that a GY/BU wire has been cut by a previous owner?
Note that the left/right air nozzle wheels, the window switches, and the shifter light all are fed power by a GY/BU wire.
See below three diagrams.


Or maybe their brown wire to ground point w12 is cut?

 

[Jlaa]

BTW @kiev, can you please check X6/1?

 

[Kyiv]

@Jlaa, thank you so very much for taking the time! Am I correct, based on first picture in your post #66 that to get to X6/1 I have to completely remove center console and that it's on the left side of the trans tunnel?

 

[Jlaa]

@Jlaa, thank you so very much for taking the time! Am I correct, based on first picture in your post #66 that to get to X6/1 I have to completely remove center console and that it's on the left side of the trans tunnel?

It seems like it but it is kind of hard to tell because the 1st picture in post 66 is so close up. Too bad it is not zoomed out further. That said, it says "Center of Dashboard, Left of Ashtray" ---- maybe just take out the ashtray for now and poke around and see if you can find X6/1 first?

EDIT --- upon further inspection, I THINK I see the shift lever?

 

[Kyiv]

I'll attempt to remove center console completely. With it it's not possible to access anything. I do understand exactly where X6/1 is now. @jlla, thank you again for taking the time

 

[gsxr]

Removing the center console is not fun. Make SURE this is required, before you do so!

I'd remove the vertical carpet on the driver side of the transmission tunnel, before messing with the center console. You may be able to access what you need with the carpet and wood trim removed.

 

[Jlaa]

Removing the center console is not fun. Make SURE this is required, before you do so!

I'd remove the vertical carpet on the driver side of the transmission tunnel, before messing with the center console. You may be able to access what you need with the carpet and wood trim removed.

@kiev, I went back and looked @ my old pictures when I took apart my wood veneers. Triangulating my old pics with the X6/1 photo in the Electrical Troubleshooting Manual, it seems X6/1 should be approximately here within the red polygon. In my pics, though, my seat heater connector is in the way. Also make sure all those brown wires in-tact. Those are all grounds.

 

[Kyiv]

Removing the center console is not fun. Make SURE this is required, before you do so!

I'd remove the vertical carpet on the driver side of the transmission tunnel, before messing with the center console. You may be able to access what you need with the carpet and wood trim removed.

Dave and @Jlaa just running it by you guys. This is the current state my car is. Driver seat, would panel over gear selector, ashtray, radio - all removed. You can see that the ashtrays plastic nest is an integral part of the center console and it obstructs my hands reaching properly in there. Cables are right in there, so in can't extract them to sift through them....





Looking at this write up on how to remove center console, it seems I need to pop out HVAC unit, unit with switches above it, and then undo 3 bolts:


After that, the console is attached by 4 hooks, so just unhook and it's out:


With it out, I should have unrestricted access to mess with the wiring. Does my thinking seem right? Am I blind to some unknown to me hurdles?

 

[gsxr]

That is the main stuff, keiv... those nuts up top are a mild PITA though.

 

[Kyiv]

That is the main stuff, keiv... those nuts up top are a mild PITA though.

Are you saying in a soft yet confident fatherly tone I should go for it? Or are you saying like he says "it sank"?

 

[gsxr]

Are you saying in a soft yet confident fatherly tone I should go for it? Or are you saying like he says "it sank"?

LOL. I think you are far enough in there already, have lots of good info from Jlaa, plus the skills to handle the job. I say go for it.

Keep in mind that with the console out, that is a decent part of the work needed to pull the dash and replace the vacuum pods. So, while you're in there, you could... *cough*...

 

[Kyiv]

So, while you're in there, you could... *cough*...

plus the skills to handle the job

Dave, in searching various MB info via Google, I often find posts of yours on various boards. Some of them were from 2003/2004 and in those YOU would on occasion ASK others on HOW TO DO a particular tasks related to working on the car. It's hilarious to one moment be reading on of your expert posts from a relatively recent times, and then 15 minutes later, while searching for something via Google, find a 16 year younger you inquiring about something

At what point did you realize you're a guru and no longer just an "advanced user"? After how many years of DIY did that became readily apparent to you?

I consider myself a a fresh conscript that's been on a frontline for a mere 2 weeks. Sure I've heard the gun fire and saw a few mortars explode, but I'm still very, very green. Then you're suggesting, in a non-less than a nonchalant manner, that I should go for a dashboard removal. I ain't no Guderian's panzer (yet). For now I'm a foot infantryman.

 

[Jlaa]

Dave, in searching various MB info via Google, I often find posts of yours on various boards. Some of them were from 2003/2004 and in those YOU would on occasion ASK others on HOW TO DO a particular tasks related to working on the car. It's hilarious to one moment be reading on of your expert posts from a relatively recent times, and then 15 minutes later, while searching for something via Google, find a 16 year younger you inquiring about something

At what point did you realize you're a guru and no longer just an "advanced user"? After how many years of DIY did that became readily apparent to you?

My guess is that @gsxr realized this when he noticed that everyone he had been asking questions of had either died or sold on their w124s. That's how @gsxr ended up with, ahem, a vast fleet of these cars.

 

[emerydc8]

@emerydc8, mate, did you ever resolve transmission gear selector and vent opening wheel illumination problem?

The gear selector light works fine. The vent lights are still not working despite replacing the bulbs. I never dug further into it but your post is a reminder that I should put that on my to-do list.

 

[Kyiv]

So, 2 of 4 carpet tubs that hook into center console were not hooked, which means someone was there previously. And, thus far, my car has been a virgin everywhere I went. Hopeful I'm on the right track to find the culprit for non-working illumination of window switches (front and rear), great selector, and side vent wheels.

Just pulled it off. Not difficult at all. Removing the board with switches was the most quirky part. Unfortunately one of the two plastic tabs broke off.

 

[gsxr]

Dave, in searching various MB info via Google, I often find posts of yours on various boards. Some of them were from 2003/2004 and in those YOU would on occasion ASK others on HOW TO DO a particular tasks related to working on the car. It's hilarious to one moment be reading on of your expert posts from a relatively recent times, and then 15 minutes later, while searching for something via Google, find a 16 year younger you inquiring about something

LOL! Sometimes I stumble across one of my posts from 15+ years ago and , thinking "oy, that's embarrassing". Even worse if my old post was wrong, i.e. stating something incorrect/inaccurate. If I find anything really screwed up I'll try to get the forum admins to edit my post, as most forums don't allow editing after a certain period of time (usually a few weeks). Go easy on me, I was a lot dumber 20 years ago.

At what point did you realize you're a guru and no longer just an "advanced user"? After how many years of DIY did that became readily apparent to you?

Meh, I'm still "advanced user". I have a ways to go to achieve GuruStatus™ like @Klink.

I consider myself a a fresh conscript that's been on a frontline for a mere 2 weeks. Sure I've heard the gun fire and saw a few mortars explode, but I'm still very, very green. Then you're suggesting, in a non-less than a nonchalant manner, that I should go for a dashboard removal. I ain't no Guderian's panzer (yet). For now I'm a foot infantryman.

And now you've BT and DT! Good work! When is the dash coming out? At this point you're only an hour or two away...

 

[nocfn]

As a remover of dashboards go, it is not that hard in practice. Lots of pictures, a box of zip lock bags and a sharpie with some planning. Expect 13 hours start to finish, say for example you are replacing hvac system components while you are there. Just do not be in a hurry, and be methodically intentional. Sadly, the second time is faster...ugh.

 

[Kyiv]

BTW @kiev, can you please check X6/1?

View attachment 130125



View attachment 130126



View attachment 130127

@Jlaa, I had a chance to look the wiring situated behind and around ashtray today. Everything seems to be, plugged, intact and in good condition.

I believe I've found X6/1 and it's fine. It's located behind of the ashtray and to the left. I unplugged it, sprayed with electrical cleaner and re-plugged back:



There are 2 blu/gray cables to the right of X6/1 (red arrows). They are intact. One snakes deeper into the dashboard.



The other one flows into a bunch of cables going towards gear selector, windows switches, etc (red arrow):

Or maybe their brown wire to ground point w12 is cut?

@Jlaa, so my weak understanding is that the problem is with ground W12 or somewhere upstream(?). Where do you think this W12 ground is? There's so much cabling disappearing into further depths, that would require further disassembling to see where it goes

*I found this - I'm assuming aftermarket - connector. Do you have a guess as to what it could be used for?


**Does electric steering adjustment stops working when driver seat is removed from the vehicle?

 

[gsxr]

*I found this - I'm assuming aftermarket - connector. Do you have a guess as to what it could be used for?

That is factory... it's an extra ground cable for the radio head unit chassis. MB over-engineering.

**Does electric steering adjustment stops working when driver seat is removed from the vehicle?

I believe it may indeed stop. The telescopic column is related to the memory seat function. I am not sure how all the components are intertwined, but I wouldn't be surprised if things didn't work with the seat removed.

 

[Kyiv]

@gsxr, Dave, any ideal where W12 ground might be located?

 

[Jlaa]

@Jlaa, I had a chance to look the wiring situated behind and around ashtray today. Everything seems to be, plugged, intact and in good condition.

I believe I've found X6/1 and it's fine....... so my weak understanding is that the problem is with ground W12 or somewhere upstream(?). Where do you think this W12 ground is? There's so much cabling disappearing into further depths, that would require further disassembling to see where it goes

Oh dear. Well, the mystery gets deeper. Hmmmmmm..... Good thinking then to go after the ground point (W12). W12 is here (behind lower front of console) ... it should be visible to you without any digging

 

[Jlaa]

@kiev, I had a thought on the elliptical this morn. You have access to X6/1, which should meter out at +12v. You also have access to W12, which should meter out at ground.

Of the lights that are not working, the easiest ones for you to get to right now are the gear selector and window switch lights. How about using your multimeter to compare + of the lights vs X6/1 and compare - of the lights vs W12? That way, you can eliminate one or the other as the problem....

 

[sheward]

kiev. Although I have removed the center console before I could not recall everything necessary and I'm recovering my own. Thanks for posting things with pictures.
If you need a plastic clip for the HVAC panel text me your address and I'll send one. I see that they screw on.

drew

 

[gsxr]

kiev, taking a step back... can you remind us which bulbs are not working, and which ones ARE working (and dim as expected with the cluster knob)?

 

[Jlaa]

kiev, taking a step back... can you remind us which bulbs are not working, and which ones ARE working (and dim as expected with the cluster knob)?

I believe it is the following:

I'd like to take another tackle at the absent illumination of window switches, gear selector, and left and right wheels that open/close vents (everything else illuminates). It's definitely not a bulb out issue.

 

[gsxr]

I believe it is the following:
kiev said:
I'd like to take another tackle at the absent illumination of window switches, gear selector, and left and right wheels that open/close vents (everything else illuminates). It's definitely not a bulb out issue.

So... do the switches above the HVAC controls illuminate and dim as expected?

I'm trying to remember what lights up outside the cluster. Haven't driven at night in quite a while...

 

[Kyiv]

kiev, taking a step back... can you remind us which bulbs are not working, and which ones ARE working (and dim as expected with the cluster knob)?

Everything illuminates, except: all window switches including ones on the rear doors, both side vents adjustment wheels and gear selector.

Center vent adjustment wheel, stereo, HVAC unit and buttons above it DO illuminate and dim correctly. All switches function properly otherwise.

So... do the switches above the HVAC controls illuminate and dim as expected?

This is Jlaa's photo of his car at night. Of course it's illumination is mint

 

[Jlaa]

@kiev --- Status Report Please? Have you been able to find if the problem is that:

a) the ground side of your non-working lights is floating (and not acutally grounded --- relative to W12) OR
b) the positive side of your non-working lights is no getting +12v (relative to x6/1 or anything else that is hot in the car)

 

[Kyiv]

Of the lights that are not working, the easiest ones for you to get to right now are the gear selector and window switch lights. How about using your multimeter to compare + of the lights vs X6/1 and compare - of the lights vs W12? That way, you can eliminate one or the other as the problem....

Although I'm burning with shame, I'll ask none the less. (Never used multimeter before)

1. ignition on, correct?

2. red (positive) to X6/1's hot wire pin (I'll look up the color which indicates hot); black (negative) to grey/blue wire pin on a window switch connector. If I see 12V of DC, that means X6/1 to window switch connection is good?

3. red positive to grey/blue wire pin on a window switch; black (negative) to X12 ground. If 12V of DC is present, then connection is good?

 

[Kyiv]

@kiev --- Status Report Please? Have you been able to find if the problem is that:

a) the ground side of your non-working lights is floating (and not acutally grounded --- relative to W12) OR
b) the positive side of your non-working lights is no getting +12v (relative to x6/1 or anything else that is hot in the car)

I became a father for a 2nd time in early April. Not much time, but have some today

 

[Jlaa]

I became a father for a 2nd time in early April. Not much time, but have some today

Congratulations!!!!!!!! What a wonderful time for you! Now (sarcastically) you will be able to appreciate all kinds of new logic, including:

• Your friends are lying to you and 1+1 does not equal 1.5 units of work. 1+1=3 units of work.
• You have now allocated your next 1M USD of accumulated earnings not for the comfort of your retirement, but to the costs of raising your second child!

Again congratulations!!!!! (No seriously - congrats!)

Although I'm burning with shame, I'll ask none the less. (Never used multimeter before)

Its OK. Do you have one? Even this el-cheapo one from Harbor Freight works well: 11 Function Digital Multimeter with Audible Continuity

1. ignition on, correct?

I don't think you need to have ignition on. Your headlights work in "parking mode" and the interior lamps illuminate even when no key is in the ignition.

2. red (positive) to X6/1's hot wire pin (I'll look up the color which indicates hot); black (negative) to grey/blue wire pin on a window switch connector. If I see 12V of DC, that means X6/1 to window switch connection is good?


3. red positive to grey/blue wire pin on a window switch; black (negative) to X12 ground. If 12V of DC is present, then connection is good?

What you want to do is the following:

• First, make sure that you can read 12V with your multimeter. Connect the multimeter-red lead to positive on the battery terminal and the multimeter-black lead to a bolt on the chassis (or even the negative terminal on the battery) ---- you should see 12v on the multimeter (or -12v if you have the wires mixed up)
• Then make sure that x6/1 and W12 junction blocks are working properly. Connect multimeter-red lead to X6/1 and multimeter-black lead to W12 and make sure you see 12V on the multimeter.
• Now you want to isolate the problem to your non functional lighting in your air nozzle dials or your window switches or gear selection light. I suggest the gear selection light because that is the easiest. What you want to find out is ---- is your gear selection light not getting +12v? Or is your gear selection light not getting grounded?
  • Put the multimeter-red lead on the positive wire of the gear selection light. Put the multimeter-black lead on the x6/1. If you see ZERO, then that's good because there is no difference. That should mean that the positive wire of the gear selection light is getting +12V. If you don't get any reading, then that means there is an issue with the positive wire of the gear selection light.
  • Put the multimeter-red lead on the negative wire of the gear selection light. Put the multimeter-black lead on the W12. If you see ZERO, then that's good because there is no difference. That should mean that the negative wire of the gear selection light is connected to ground. If you don't get any reading, then that means there is an issue with the negative wire of the gear selection light.

I hope this helps as a first time user of a multimeter.....

 

[Kyiv]

It seems like it but it is kind of hard to tell because the 1st picture in post 66 is so close up. Too bad it is not zoomed out further. That said, it says "Center of Dashboard, Left of Ashtray" ---- maybe just take out the ashtray for now and poke around and see if you can find X6/1 first?

EDIT --- upon further inspection, I THINK I see the shift lever?

View attachment 130138

@Jlaa, @gsxr - Sirs- bear with me please!

In the above quote, there is a picture that presumably shows X6/1 location. However, it's not there in my case. There is nothing in that location. I have the center console completely out so my view is unobstructed.

I think, X6/1 is actually located here (blue arrow). Directly behind ashtray, a few inches ahead of a mystery Bosch module that can also be seen in the picture. But could it be not it? What do you guys think/speculate?


At any rate, with this cheap Amazon multimeter I was able to measure 12+ volts on the battery. I was also able to find a hot wire in the connector for the front ceiling lamp by trying each pin with a red lid, while holding black lid to a ground point. One of the pins produced 12 volts. So the multimeter works and I'm capable of basic operation


Result my initial snooping:

• the *presumed* X6/1 to W12: only one pin reads 0.02 volts. Rest read zero. This is why I'm wondering if this is indeed X6/1 that I'm testing...
• gear selector light socket: I disassembled it to get a accurate reading and by itself it's putting out zero (headlight switch was on). I understand it should have given me some volts. Zero volts from it to W12 as well.
• power windows connectors: some pins read 10-12 volts, but the pin which is fed by the blue-grey cable (presumed responsible for illumination) reads zero. I tested connectors for all 4 window switches.
• switches above HVAC panel: pins fed by blue-gray cable read above 7 volts

***@jlla, to note, my voltmeter is showing zero in idle condition. So I can't do this:

Put the multimeter-red lead on the positive wire of the gear selection light. Put the multimeter-black lead on the x6/1. If you see ZERO, then that's good because there is no difference. That should mean that the positive wire of the gear selection light is getting +12V. If you don't get any reading, then that means there is an issue with the positive wire of the gear selection light.

 

[Kyiv]

Congratulations!!!!!!!! What a wonderful time for you! Now (sarcastically) you will be able to appreciate all kinds of new logic, including:

• Your friends are lying to you and 1+1 does not equal 1.5 units of work. 1+1=3 units of work.
• You have now allocated your next 1M USD of accumulated earnings not for the comfort of your retirement, but to the costs of raising your second child!

Again congratulations!!!!! (No seriously - congrats!)

Thank You! I know that as a father you can easily relate. It's a girl. Almost 5 weeks old and already 11 pounds

 

[Jlaa]

@Jlaa, @gsxr - Sirs- bear with me please!

In the above quote, there is a picture that presumably shows X6/1 location. However, it's not there in my case. There is nothing in that location. I have the center console completely out so my view is unobstructed.

I think, X6/1 is actually located here (blue arrow). Directly behind ashtray, a few inches ahead of a mystery Bosch module that can also be seen in the picture. But could it be not it? What do you guys think/speculate?
View attachment 130711

Result my initial snooping:

• the *presumed* X6/1 to W12: only one pin reads 0.02 volts. Rest read zero. This is why I'm wondering if this is indeed X6/1 that I'm testing...
• gear selector light socket: I disassembled it to get a accurate reading and by itself it's putting out zero (headlight switch was on). I understand it should have given me some volts. Zero volts from it to W12 as well.
• power windows connectors: some pins read 10-12 volts, but the pin which is fed by the blue-grey cable (presumed responsible for illumination) reads zero. I tested connectors for all 4 window switches.
• switches above HVAC panel: pins fed by blue-gray cable read above 7 volts

@kiev, good progress through process of elimination. Let's try to answer the question "Does the blue arrow point to X6/1"?
The answers to the following questions may help us nudge closer to the answer:

• Can you trace the gray/blue wire from the gear selector light socket? As you can see in the diagram below highlighted in blue, the gear selector light socket should connect directly into X6/1, and the light socket is right there, so close to the presumed X6/1.
• Does the rear dome lamp switch work? As you can see the the diagram below highlighted in green, this is connected directly to X6/1 and your presumed-X6/1 you mentioned basically all reads 0.0 or 0.02 volts. Note that I think the switch works even while there is no key in the ignition ... I think.
• Does the fader switch illunination work? As you can see the the diagram below highlighted in green, this is connected directly to X6/1 and your presumed-X6/1 you mentioned basically all reads 0.0 or 0.02 volts.
• With the ignition switch in the on position, do all the X6/1 wires still meter out at 0.0 or 0.02 volts? Does the rear head restraint release switch illumination work? See diagram below highlighted in red..... this is connected directly to X6/1.

Lastly --- I am wondering if you can take more pictures of the wiring all over the place, since you have everything apart. Just for us to pick over to see what might have obviously been disturbed by an aftermarket radio installer......
For instance, @gsxr, do the following two items in red look OE to you?

 

[nocfn]

My head rest switch and the vacuum solenoid were replaced by me, no joy and never thought about it since I got the car. Now I will check the electrical wiring too, this is my only electrical gremlin and I forgot all about it.

 

[gsxr]

For instance, @gsxr, do the following two items in red look OE to you?

Yep, both look OE. The two screws are almost certainly X6/1, appears to be all Gray/Blue wires there. The lower tube with green/black wires is OE but I'm not positive what it is. The big connector at the rear, also don't know, but that's a big multi-pinner and has nothing to do with switch illumination.