Converting 500E to ME 1.0 and NAG1 5-Speed 722.6

[124500E]

Hello,

i want to upgrade my 500E with Motronic (like 119.980) and with that I want to swap to NAG1 722.6.
I have only a few questions to the ones wo already did the conversation:

• What transmission hardware did you use? 722.625, 722.627, 722.620?
• Will the original propshaft fit with the new Transmission? (Lenght?)
• Did you use the shifter lever from the R129? Does it fit in the 124 console?
• What rear bracket / transmission mount do you use?

Thank you!

Best greetings
Jan

 

[Alphasud40]

I never done that conversion but I would think the best way to go about it would be to find a complete R129 car and transfer what you can. So much is different you might have to install the entire R129 electrical system. A major challenge!

 

[Alphasud40]

And your driveshaft will be the easiest part of the conversion after you take measurements and have a driveline shop modify the R129 one or the W124 one.

 

[virage]

クラシックカー専用部品、パーツ販売 、W124 500E用　722.6 トランスミッションマウントブラケット

>722.6トランスミッションをW124 500Eに搭載するためのブラケット

virage.co.jp

made to order

 

[virage]

722.6 Transmission Mount Bracket for W124 500E​

Mount bracket for installing 722.6 (5-speed electronically controlled) transmission on W124 500E.
After scanning the original parts, it is a masterpiece with the same design as the original.
Machined product of 6061-T6.

Shipping area: Shipped from Japan
Time to product shipment: Approximately 10 days
*Only available on weekdays, shipped after payment is confirmed

¥ 98,000 (~$675 USD / ~€625 EUR)

 

[gsxr]

Hello,

i want to upgrade my 500E with Motronic (like 119.980) and with that I want to swap to NAG1 722.6.

I understand why you'd want NAG1, but why ME 1.0? Sure, it has coil-on-plug (no distributors) but it's a real headache to bypass DAS, and the ME control module is locked to the DAS module (can't easily replace ME ECU if needed), and there's no "tuning" available for ME 1.0 ECU. And, I think you need to use the ASR pump from the ME system as well. Huge project!

 

[Alphasud40]

From my perspective finding a 96-98 R129 would be the best option to make the conversion happen. Pretty extensive to use the electronics and wire loom from the R129 but it could be done. All for 1 gear and the lack of cap and rotor hassles. might as well use the same transmission bolted to a M113K for some serious power upgrades.

 

[Berglund]

Hi
I have previously considered changing my 4G to a 5G box in my 500e

Now I have found a suitable 7226.36 with lockup from a 2002 CL55 AMG M113.

On the shelf is also a lever stand, short version: 202 267 0537

OfGear in Denmark has data management that is adapted.

Is there anything I need to think about before the switch?

Does the propshaft fit?
If any other cooling is needed,
or is it enough to change/replace pipes?
Does the converter fit on the flywheel?

Best Regards Niklas

 

[124500E]

I understand why you'd want NAG1, but why ME 1.0? Sure, it has coil-on-plug (no distributors) but it's a real headache to bypass DAS, and the ME control module is locked to the DAS module (can't easily replace ME ECU if needed), and there's no "tuning" available for ME 1.0 ECU. And, I think you need to use the ASR pump from the ME system as well. Huge project!

Hi, my reasons for this:
-no moving ignition parts
-only one ECU for everything, no expensive ignition ecu that is dying etc. like a normal car nowadays
-no expensive throttle body and LH Air Mass Sensor (ME has HFM) i know that early HFM's are dying fast but they are cheap bosch parts
-NAG1 swap is easy. ME1.0 has the CAN with all the values for "Drehmomentschnittstelle" (i dont know in english) for the EGS
-DAS (FBS2a) is no problem

Problems:
-ASR/ABS

• Option 1: no ASR: ME1,0 and EGS are working without the values from ASR. There is no troque limitation.
• Swap ASR from donor car (in my case 1996 W140 S500) -Problem: W124 500E has different wheel speed impulses (48 and 96 teeth) but hubs from R129 will solve this

-Speedometer (almost solved):

• when 722.3 leaves, the speed sensor also leaves. I'm making tests right now with an Arduino+ CAN shield that reads the vehicle speed from the CAN (ASR ECU is providing the speed signal). This arduino creates a sine wave for the old instrument.

-Exhaust:

• ME1.0 has stereo O2 Sensor regulation, LH mono
• left catalytic converter on left side of transmission?

-Mechanic:

• Enough room for NAG1?
• Driveshaft (original one, another one or a unique built one)

 

[NIIBE]

Hi, my reasons for this:
-no moving ignition parts
-only one ECU for everything, no expensive ignition ecu that is dying etc. like a normal car nowadays
-no expensive throttle body and LH Air Mass Sensor (ME has HFM) i know that early HFM's are dying fast but they are cheap bosch parts
-NAG1 swap is easy. ME1.0 has the CAN with all the values for "Drehmomentschnittstelle" (i dont know in english) for the EGS
-DAS (FBS2a) is no problem

　I am using stand alone after market ECU long time for 500E. I highly recommend to convert current modern Engine management for
saving cost that you mentioned HFM. thlottles distributor etc.

ME and LH head cover and cam shaft holder　　

And Head cover and cam holder is different for ME model and LH/KE. you shall change both or use after market Ignition coil with one off bracket.

Billet Direct Ignition Coil mount

-Speedometer (almost solved):

• when 722.3 leaves, the speed sensor also leaves. I'm making tests right now with an Arduino+ CAN shield that reads the vehicle speed from the CAN (ASR ECU is providing the speed signal). This arduino creates a sine wave for the old instrument.

I am using stock speed pulse from Diff gear and/or ABS signal from Drive shaft(F and R). for Stand alone ECU, 722.6 trans control and
speed Meter.

-Exhaust:

• ME1.0 has stereo O2 Sensor regulation, LH mono
• left catalytic converter on left side of transmission?

I was using twin lambda/O2 sensor L and R both of front pipe for sequential control.
And am going to step up 4 lambda for 180 degree headers.

-Mechanic:

• Enough room for NAG1?
• Driveshaft (original one, another one or a unique built one)

No problem for room for NAG1.
I changed out put flange from 3 bolt to 4 bolt. and using existing prop shaft without modification.

NAG1/722.6 conversion is pretty easy by using off gear or other TCU.

Speed NIIBE

 

[195910]

Do you need ASR? My 97 C36 (Bosch ME) does not have ASR just ABS.
You can convert to a LSD differential for traction.

 

[500AMM]

Do you need ASR? My 97 C36 (Bosch ME) does not have ASR just ABS.
You can convert to a LSD differential for traction.

That's two different features not compensating each other. The ASR is very nice and a security aspect on street driving on wet/slippery conditions, while the LSD spins you around any corner at full drifting style if you like.

 

[500AMM]

Not to derail the topic, maybe a question for @NIIBE running high HP and torque;
The max torque in a W5A580 is 580 Nm per the specs, but even if they are used in cars with higher torque they are still called the same? I can't recall seeing a W5A700 for example, what is the case on this?

@124500E - a very interesting thread Jan!

 

[gsxr]

Arnt, there is a higher-rated 722.6, the W5A900 is the highest I think I've seen? Usually behind V12 engines? For example:

220.176 - S600
722.649 - W5A900

 

[500AMM]

Thanks Dave! Then it's just me not doing a proper research.
Would be interesting to hear what NIIBE has done with the transmission or which type he is running.

 

[Markus-MD]

722.643- sl 55 supercharged
722.648-slr
722.649-v12 bi turbo
643-648 difference with cluch double side or single side disc maybe aproxx700nm proof
649 is 2cm longer and stronger planetweels 900nm
but brabus and other has limited to 1000nm .the driveshaft was not stron enough

 

[124500E]

　I am using stand alone after market ECU long time for 500E. I highly recommend to convert current modern Engine management for
saving cost that you mentioned HFM. thlottles distributor etc.

ME and LH head cover and cam shaft holder　　

And Head cover and cam holder is different for ME model and LH/KE. you shall change both or use after market Ignition coil with one off bracket.

Billet Direct Ignition Coil mount


I am using stock speed pulse from Diff gear and/or ABS signal from Drive shaft(F and R). for Stand alone ECU, 722.6 trans control and
speed Meter.


I was using twin lambda/O2 sensor L and R both of front pipe for sequential control.
And am going to step up 4 lambda for 180 degree headers.




No problem for room for NAG1.
I changed out put flange from 3 bolt to 4 bolt. and using existing prop shaft without modification.

NAG1/722.6 conversion is pretty easy by using off gear or other TCU.

Speed NIIBE

Thanks for your infos. Nice work on the Japanese forum pictures!!
How do you get the speed signal from the Differential ? There are the two speed sensors for ASR and ABS but they are wheel speed and not shaft speed as the speedo wants it.

 

[NIIBE]

722.643- sl 55 supercharged
722.648-slr
722.649-v12 bi turbo
643-648 difference with cluch double side or single side disc maybe aproxx700nm proof
649 is 2cm longer and stronger planetweels 900nm
but brabus and other has limited to 1000nm .the driveshaft was not stron enough

I have been rebuilding and tuning 722.6 trans these 10years. with clutch disc add, and using some after market input shaft etc.

I have just convert the bell housing from V12 model to fit my M119 .
But I did not know/ realize that 722.649 has longer planet gear. I shall check!

722.6 is ULTRA strong and competitive parts price than current 722.3 price.
I thought that 722.3 is up to 60Nm max, and drum brake band is weak point. no strong after market parts like T350/T400.
Hence 722.6 have only clutch disc and reliable electric control.

The only problem is M119 bell is NLA.
May be it might cause, I bought more than dozen M119 bell housing before NLA !

Speed NIIBE

 

[NIIBE]

How do you get the speed signal from the Differential ? There are the two speed sensors for ASR and ABS but they are wheel speed and not shaft speed as the speedo wants it.

500E Diff has ASR/ABS signal at Diff both side of L & R, you can convert these signal to speed, or you can use trigger wheel on drive shaft in addition. I have changed my Hub knuckle from W210 wagon to use larger bearing for strength, and these have speed sensor hole.
I had made drive shafts with ABS/ASR sensor.

Now I am planning to put used Bosch Sprot ASR from race car. This is very 10 times clever and really reliable after market ABS ECU.
I deleted poor and useless ASR, but After market ECU has throttle control for power limit.

This is very clever and useful, it can control shift spark timing retard and throttle control if you want. as such as paddle down shift blipping or
traction control at track and strip.

Niibe

 

[124500E]

What do you use to convert the speed signal? Its a sine wave where frequency and amplitude is rising. Sometimes these voltages geht very high and frequency convertes (that i found) dont work with such high voltages.

So the calculation is: 1 propshaft turn makes 4 impulses at the speedo, 1 wheel turn makes 48 pulses. Ratio is 2,82. (4*2,82) makes 11,28 speedometer pulses for one wheel turn. So 11,28/48 (48 Impulses from wheel speed sensor) makes 0,235. So the Signal from wheel speed sensor in diff needs to be multiplicated with 0,235. Am i right??

 

[124500E]

722.6 Transmission Mount Bracket for W124 500E​

Mount bracket for installing 722.6 (5-speed electronically controlled) transmission on W124 500E.
After scanning the original parts, it is a masterpiece with the same design as the original.
Machined product of 6061-T6.

Shipping area: Shipped from Japan
Time to product shipment: Approximately 10 days
*Only available on weekdays, shipped after payment is confirmed

¥ 98,000 (~$675 USD / ~€625 EUR)

View attachment 172675

Hi, is this for M119 or other engine ? Because of the exhaust on the pictures.

 

[gsxr]

Hi, is this for M119 or other engine ? Because of the exhaust on the pictures.

I wonder if @Beater400E could whip up a few of these 722.6+W124 brackets in his garage...

 

[NIIBE]

What do you use to convert the speed signal? Its a sine wave where frequency and amplitude is rising. Sometimes these voltages geht very high and frequency convertes (that i found) dont work with such high voltages.

So the calculation is: 1 propshaft turn makes 4 impulses at the speedo, 1 wheel turn makes 48 pulses. Ratio is 2,82. (4*2,82) makes 11,28 speedometer pulses for one wheel turn. So 11,28/48 (48 Impulses from wheel speed sensor) makes 0,235. So the Signal from wheel speed sensor in diff needs to be multiplicated with 0,235. Am i right??

I do not know what is your actual purpose of speed signal,
But it is not so difficult to translate or convert another pulse, or its wave as such as sin to square etc.
You can ask your local technical expert.

If your would plan to use OF gear TCU for your W124036,
I could say t is pretty easy, you can easy to find speed signal from your LH or back of CD/radio unit.
As you know, w124036 normally has ASR and its rear wheel signal are generate at diff L&R.
I just remember the color of the speed signal code ( probably yellow/green) but I do not remember the its voltage and wave shape.

So many people have enjoyed this popular conversion, I had also converted not small number of 722.6 from 722.3 in Japan by using M119 bell and M119 722.6 trans.
I have confidence its durability and performance. especially if your motor would squeeze over 400HP around.

Or if your W124 has no ASR or single speed sensor from rear diff pinion gear, you can also find speed signal from around rear seat.

Nor you can make any pulse by using pulse generator at drive shafts/ Front hub or Drive shaft, put pulse generator at end of transmission or front of diff.

I have been also using similar pulse generator/trigger wheel for PCS TCU 2000 long time.

PCS 2000 TCU for Nag1.

I had made custom ATF pan for my 722.6 with fin (matching my finned oil pan ) and by using O ring seal (no leak and reliable than OEM gasket).
NIIBE ATF PAN 722.6

BTW, I have jealous of some expert WHO are using Motec Engine management to control Electric solenoids of 722.6 instead of TCU!


Niibe

 

[NIIBE]

Hi, is this for M119 or other engine ? Because of the exhaust on the pictures.

View attachment 178031

That’s 500E with M119 +722.6, cause l know him in Japan.
He made 3D print 722.6 trans bracket for 500E. Just bolt on. It’s So easy !

Speed

 

[virage]

That’s 500E with M119 +722.6, cause l know him in Japan.
He made 3D print 722.6 trans bracket for 500E. Just bolt on. It’s So easy !

Speed

Actually, it's machined from 6062.
Not printed aluminum part.

 

[Beater400E]

I wonder if @Beater400E could whip up a few of these 722.6+W124 brackets in his garage...

It wouldn't be as pretty as that CNC beauty, but it could be done.

 

[virage]

We made this billet part for shifting rod end piece to match the conversion.

 

[virage]

If you want to make it look like factory one, you need this as well.
Who can tell which one is which comparing those two ?

 

[virage]

3D printed steel exhaust hanger for this swap.
Black powder coated.
We do not do guess work.
Those parts are all 3D scanned and redesigned very accurate and strong.

 

[virage]

Some more 3D printed aluminum parts.
This is for air pump bye bye bra which is NLA from Mercedes.

 

[virage]

CNC machined to mate Mercedes 716.6 6 speed.
The bolt pattern is for M119 and M117.

 

[virage]

Better view.
We have developed a lot of parts for 500E with 722.6 and are hoping they help your projects.
Not only those parts shown, we can make almost anything.

 

[195910]

Hello @virage
Do you have a website or can you provide a pdf catalogue of the parts?
Do you have the non-cat exhaust hanger?

 

[virage]

Hello @195910,
We do have a website but it is only in Japanese and those parts above are not listed.
I have never seen a non-cat exhaust hanger.
Whatever it is, if you send it to us, we can make the exact copy or modified one.
But remember that those are not bending flat bar DIY products which means they are not cheap.

 

[195910]

Hello @195910,
We do have a website but it is only in Japanese and those parts above are not listed.
I have never seen a non-cat exhaust hanger.
Whatever it is, if you send it to us, we can make the exact copy or modified one.
But remember that those are not bending flat bar DIY products which means they are not cheap.

Unfortunately the part is NLA, it was mainly for the Gulf market.

 

[virage]

Sorry, this one is out of the topic.
Billet PA6GF30 PWM fan shroud for 500E.
Of course, this was made from 3D scanning OEM radiator, W204 fan shroud and redesigned as a hybrid.
You can delete mechanical fan, two electric additional fans and the annoying resister.
Bolts on OEM radiator and W204 PWM fan fits right on.

We are trying to make a kit with controller (standalone) and wiring now.
If you are interested, please let me know.
The number gets bigger, the cost gets cheaper.

 

[NIIBE]

Sorry, this one is out of the topic.
Billet PA6GF30 PWM fan shroud for 500E.
Of course, this was made from 3D scanning OEM radiator, W204 fan shroud and redesigned as a hybrid.
You can delete mechanical fan, two electric additional fans and the annoying resister.
Bolts on OEM radiator and W204 PWM fan fits right on.

We are trying to make a kit with controller (standalone) and wiring now.
If you are interested, please let me know.
The number gets bigger, the cost gets cheaper.

Nana San,
I believe that this Fan shroud would be one of the game changer for Heating 500E.
We can delete Old auxiliary fans and mechanical fan, burning resistor and wires.

Very appreciated your dedication !

Speed Niibe

 

[NIIBE]

We made this billet part for shifting rod end piece to match the conversion.

SHIFT ROD WELD AND EXTEND FOR 722.6 CONVERSION


I had cut rod and weld but Your product is NO WELDING REQUIRED just bolt on. Super Easy than texting such words !


Speed Niibe

 

[virage]

Thank you always Niibe san.
About the rod, you need to purchase A 129 260 17 33.

People who are interested in all those parts,
JPY is very weak now and it is best timing to purchase from Japan.

 

[Berglund]

Hello everyone.

I have previously asked the question on this forum / thread.

Regarding changing my G4 box to the G5 with lockup.

The transmission i found is a 7226,36 from a 2002 CL55 AMG with the M113 engine.

Dose this fit directly on the M119 engine?

Is the bellhouse the same?

What flywheel fit?

Anyone who knows?

The rest of parts that we need,

shift control arm, and mounting brackets turns out to be in Japan according to this thread.



Best Regards, Niklas

 

[195910]

5 speed transmission and electric fan conversion is becoming more feasible, unfortunately I need to maintain authenticity.

5 Speed on the Baron is sub 5 seconds launch and +300Km/h ...

 

[NIIBE]

Dose this fit directly on the M119 engine?
Is the bellhouse the same?

No you need to change M119 bell and NLA now. but you can find used or whole trans with M119 BELL.

What flywheel fit?

I am using M119 Flywheel/flex plate 60teeth with High stall converter and after market ECU.
Its also NLA, but easier to make than complicated M119 bell housing.

Anyone who knows?

Many people done already. I think these conversion are very popular even southeast asia Thailand local.
I could not understand why people hesitate to jump in and get sweets fruits.
Please see Ofgear web. or 722.6 Project How to install



I did more than 6 years before ! in 2017.

The rest of parts that we need,

Trans out put tail 4 bolt(if you will use stock Drive shaft)
Recommend : ATF, FILTER,GASKET, CUPPER WASHER, BOLT,
ELECTRIC CABLE and Plate , RUBBER DISC JOINT, TRANAS MOUNT, DRIVE SHAFT CENTER BEARING,
Shift gate gear for NAG1.

if possible I recommend your old NAG1 shall be rebuilt before put your motor.

Speed Niibe

 

[virage]

Comparison of the end pieces.
OEM one is NLA anyway.
Machined from 6061-T6.
This was not made for sale but if I get five orders,
selling at 98.00 euros each.

 

[500AMM]

@virage, why did you have to make a new shift rod bracket?

 

[virage]

@500AMM First, the original rod was too short for the conversion.
Then I remembered that I used to have a R129 500SL with 722.6.
The chassis of R129 and W124 are almost identical so I bought a shifting rod of the 129.
But the end piece for the rod was NLA already.
Then I found one from a donor car and tried to line up.
But it just did not.

That is why got it made.
I am still not sure if other OEM piece or rod would line up or not.
You could try to find the maching parts in wreck yards or ebay.

 

[500AMM]

OK, it was technical issues.
Many thanks for clarifying!

 

[NIIBE]

@500AMM First, the original rod was too short for the conversion.
Then I remembered that I used to have a R129 500SL with 722.6.
The chassis of R129 and W124 are almost identical so I bought a shifting rod of the 129.
But the end piece for the rod was NLA already.
Then I found one from a donor car and tried to line up.
But it just did not.

That is why got it made.
I am still not sure if other OEM piece or rod would line up or not.
You could try to find the maching parts in wreck yards or ebay.

　I think, the one of the difficulties will be solved by using this products and your Billet trans mount.
We can save time, without welding the shift rod and cut pipe, painting and modify trans mount or build custom fabricated mount,
These TWO PARTS make 722.6 conversion easier. Just fix the cable and bolt.

Speed Niibe

 

[500AMM]

You're right NIIBE, even by doing the wrenching yourself the cost for any mods quickly adds up anyway, and the time is flying, BTDT soooo many times!

 

[virage]

If someone tries to make the trans bracket,
He needs to know that the mounting point should be offset to the side comparing to the original 722.3 bracket.

If the drive train is not straight, you can imagine what happens when you go
above 60km/h.

 

[Markus-MD]

juup i remeber that was around 1cm aproxx