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Help Needed: Injection Problems and MAF on S500 Coupe M119

Baush

Member
Member
Hello everyone, let me introduce myself: I’m writing to you from Spain (sorry for my English) and I have a 1994 Mercedes S500 C140 (W140 Coupe) 5.0 V8.

I know this forum is dedicated to the E500, but I decided to write anyway since I’ve been reading the forum for a while and found a lot of useful information.

As I mentioned, my S500 is from early 1994. It has a 119.970 engine with LH injection. I’ve had it since 2009 and used it relatively frequently until 2016, and since then its use has been very sporadic, but it has always worked perfectly.

During that time, it had minor issues typical of this model that were corrected without much difficulty.

The problem I'm facing now is driving me crazy because I don’t know where to start. Here’s what’s happening: It starts on the first try without effort, but instantly begins to misfire dramatically, as if half of the cylinders have ignition problems, with a lot of smoke from the exhaust, sometimes black, and a huge smell of fuel—it's actually impossible to breathe behind it. The engine stutters and struggles to rev in the initial part of the throttle. Although it can move, it does so with jolts and stutters, making it impossible to drive on the road.

At first, I suspected the usual issues: spark plugs, distributor, cables, coils, etc., even though many of these parts were changed in recent years. To my surprise, I discovered through testing that if I disconnected the MAF, the car would run perfectly as if by magic, with amazing smoothness, but it would stall as soon as I plugged it back in. I decided to look for another MAF and ordered one on eBay, supposedly tested and functional.

As soon as it arrived, I installed it, and to my dismay, the problem continued. I then decided to replace the lambda sensor and the coolant temperature sensor, but nothing changed. Only once, during countless tests, I started the engine with the temperature sensor disconnected, and mysteriously it ran well—even after reconnecting it, it started fine 3 or 4 more times. But never again.

I’m ruling out (not sure if correctly) any mechanical problems since with the MAF disconnected, the engine runs perfectly, or at least with very little difference compared to how it used to. Therefore, I’m focusing on the electronic control of the injection—maybe I’m mistaken?

I’ve checked the MAF voltages, its power and ground, and they are correct. I’ve checked the fuel pressure to rule out the pressure regulator, and the LH module does not store any faults (I have a Bosch KTS, but unfortunately don’t have a Star).

What do you think? Where do you suggest I keep looking? Could it be that what’s happening is that by disconnecting the MAF, the LH module is ignoring some faulty values/sensors (I don’t really know which ones) and substituting them with defaults, which is why it runs well?

Am I correct in ruling out potential causes like spark plugs, cables, distributors, EZL module, etc., and focusing only on the sensors and wiring of the fuel injection components?

I’m really lost—why on earth does it run so well without the MAF and so poorly with it? Could the “new” MAF be faulty while giving the correct voltage readings?

By the way, although it runs well without the MAF, the CO values are completely off the charts and lambda is around 0.700. The mixture it’s making is very rich. I wouldn’t be surprised if the catalytic converters are completely dead.

Thank you in advance for any guidance or support you can provide; it’s greatly appreciated!
 
Any chance you can borrow (or purchase) SDS to view live data on HHT-Win? It would be nice to verify that the measured airflow values reported by the LH module are normal.

If the car always runs perfectly with the MAF disconnected, that would seem to indicate that secondary ignition is not the problem (although, viewing live ignition data would help confirm this).

There's a chance the MAF you bought off eBay was not actually tested... few, if ANY, sellers know how to do this (let alone actually do it). They need to install the MAF with SDS / HHT-Win connected and verify the airflow readings are normal over varying RPM ranges, and ideally test the MAF by driving with it installed for a few hundred miles or more. Most sellers just claim "tested" when they've done nothing and hope it was a good unit. Unfortunately you need to view live data to see what's going on.

Any chance you have a spare LH module to try swapping in for grins?

:detective:
 
Thank you for responding.

It’s not easy for me to get an SDS or HHT at the moment, which is why I'm trying to exhaust all the tests. I have other diagnostic machines (Autel), but I can only communicate with the Bosch.

I can see live data, most of which makes sense, but the air mass value doesn’t. When the engine is off, it reads 20 kg/h, but at idle, it reads 900 kg/h, both with the MAF connected and disconnected.


The fact that the MAF voltage values are correct wouldn’t necessarily mean it’s working properly, would it? They perfectly match those indicated in the MB repair manual.


Unfortunately, I don’t have any LH module to test. Is it common for them to fail? In your opinion, could a faulty module cause the engine to fail so severely with the MAF data and then work perfectly the moment it’s disconnected?

Do you know what values the LH module omits when the MAF is disconnected?

I’ve also considered the electronic throttle; do you think it could behave like that, failing one moment with MAF and then working perfectly the next without?
 
Regarding the possibility that the "new" MAF is also failing, I figured it wasn’t very likely that they were properly checked, although I was somewhat hopeful.

In any case, the issue with the original MAF is the same as with the replacement. You have a lot of experience with this engine; is this type of failure common enough for two MAFs to fail in exactly the same way?
 
Idle airflow should be around 20kg/hr, increasing proportionally to about 90kg at 3000rpm. If it's showing 900 at idle that would cause a super rich mixture. MAF voltage should be about 1.2v (approx) at idle and increase proportionally with RPM / airflow.

Since you are seeing the same values with the MAF disconnected, I'm suspicious your LH module could have failed - this is really rare, but possible. The LH module goes into "fixed operating mode" / open-loop if the MAF data is considered faulty, which may explain the difference when the MAF is disconnected. Used LH modules are cheap, and it's good to have a spare of each module anyway, so I'd pick one up for test purposes.

The E-GAS module only controls throttle, idle speed, and cruise control. It doesn't affect mixture at all. A very remote possibility is the EZL, which controls ignition, but the airflow readings should be correct/normal... assuming your Autel is showing valid live data, which is somewhat questionable, as most aftermarket scanners will not communicate properly with LH-SFI.

And you are right, it does seem odd that two MAF's would have the identical failure mode. Something definitely is weird here, but without good live data you're stuck swapping parts around.

:runexe:
 
Thanks!

I will try to find a way to see the real values with a reliable machine. I also don’t think the values given by the Bosch KTS are correct (the Autel doesn’t even communicate).

The curious thing is that with that same value of 900 kg/h, even if it’s misinterpreted by the machine, the engine works if the MAF is disconnected.

The MAF voltage is correct; I measured it with a multimeter and I get that 1.2V that increases with the RPM, and less than 6 ohms of resistance on the ground.

I will also try to get an LH module.

So, when the LH module goes into emergency mode, does it only use predefined values for the air mass? Does the lambda regulation and everything else still work?

Sometimes I also wonder if the new lambda sensor is working or if it's the module itself that skips that regulation during emergency mode without the MAF
 
According to the factory documents, yes, I believe when the LH module goes into emergency mode it will use predefined values for the air mass - assuming it sees "valid" data from lambda and other signals. However this should store a fault code on the LH module for invalid MAF data. Same for a bad O2 sensor (or bad connection), this should show a fault code on the LH as well.

:scratchchin:
 
Really appreciate your help!

The LH module shows the corresponding DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) when I disconnect any sensor, such as the MAF, O2 sensor, intake temperature, coolant temperature, etc., but it doesn’t show any DTC if everything is connected.

In fact, I can disconnect practically all those sensors, and the engine will continue running just as well (or poorly); it only seems affected by the connection or disconnection of the MAF I can even disconnect the camshaft position sensor, and it doesn’t flinch!. but
If I connect the MAF while the engine is running, it shuts off immediately, followed by a loud suction sound

I was convinced that by unplugging the MAF, LH module was bypassing all the other sensors, but from what you’re saying, that’s not the case.

So, do you think I can assume that all the other sensors are working fine, or is it too risky to think that way.

What happens in your engines when you disconnect a working MAF? Do you know of any sensor, valve, vacuum line, or anything in your engines that, when disconnected, makes the engine run so badly in such a drastic way?

Maybe it’s the LH module; I don’t have much experience with them, but in more modern vehicles, the problem is almost never the ECU, and I feel like there’s something I’m overlooking.

I've been reading a lot and looking for information on similar cases, but I haven't found anything. Does anything I'm telling you sound familiar, or am I dealing with something truly unusual?
 
We all go to GSXR for help on this. You should do a smoke test as well to identify vacuum leaks, not your issue per se, but they do contribute to many other things and they can mutilate your data/information...also the wiring harness in the ETA and the engine bay if original can be contributors. There are pesky little things that send us all down rabbit holes...... (currently digging out myself)
 
Thank you for responding.

It’s not easy for me to get an SDS or HHT at the moment, which is why I'm trying to exhaust all the tests. I have other diagnostic machines (Autel), but I can only communicate with the Bosch.

I can see live data, most of which makes sense, but the air mass value doesn’t. When the engine is off, it reads 20 kg/h, but at idle, it reads 900 kg/h, both with the MAF connected and disconnected.


The fact that the MAF voltage values are correct wouldn’t necessarily mean it’s working properly, would it? They perfectly match those indicated in the MB repair manual.


Unfortunately, I don’t have any LH module to test. Is it common for them to fail? In your opinion, could a faulty module cause the engine to fail so severely with the MAF data and then work perfectly the moment it’s disconnected?

Do you know what values the LH module omits when the MAF is disconnected?

I’ve also considered the electronic throttle; do you think it could behave like that, failing one moment with MAF and then working perfectly the next without?
To get an SDS, you may wish to contact Seven directly over whatsapp (mentioned in the ad) for SDS using an M6+ and a Thinkpad.
Several 500eboard members have purchased the M6+ with good results - I have purchased their (discontinued) C4 + Thinkpad with good resutls.


FWIW I have no financial interest in this company. I also note that they rebranded from chinacardiag.com to carobdtool.com and now to chinacardiagS.com .... not sure why.
 
We all go to GSXR for help on this. You should do a smoke test as well to identify vacuum leaks, not your issue per se, but they do contribute to many other things and they can mutilate your data/information...also the wiring harness in the ETA and the engine bay if original can be contributors. There are pesky little things that send us all down rabbit holes...... (currently digging out myself)
Thank you for your advice; surely a smoke test would be a good idea. But do you think a vacuum leak could cause such bad behavior and be resolved when the MAF is connected? The leak, if it exists, exists in both cases, or is there something I’m missing?"

The upper harness has been replaced; it’s an original Mercedes part from 2009 and looks to be in great condition. I haven’t thoroughly checked the ETA wiring, although it doesn’t seem to be in bad shape, and besides, the wiring wouldn’t be fixed by connecting or disconnecting the MAF. Anyway, it’s something I want to check again. If I understood GSXR correctly, the ETA shouldn’t influence this case, since without the MAF, the ETA works correctly.
 
To get an SDS, you may wish to contact Seven directly over whatsapp (mentioned in the ad) for SDS using an M6+ and a Thinkpad.
Several 500eboard members have purchased the M6+ with good results - I have purchased their (discontinued) C4 + Thinkpad with good resutls.


FWIW I have no financial interest in this company. I also note that they rebranded from chinacardiag.com to carobdtool.com and now to chinacardiagS.com .... not sure why.
Thanks for the link, I’ll keep it in mind. For now, I’m going to try to borrow it.
 
Hello everyone, I have updates on my case.

I followed your advice and tried to find someone who could lend me a Star diagnosis tool to check the real values, but since I couldn't find one, I decided to look for a "new" LH module to test, although I didn't have much hope.

Today it arrived, I installed it, and after starting up with a slightly high idle, it gradually adjusted until it stabilized at a normal level. Maybe still a bit unstable, but that's probably a different issue.

I connected my Bosch KTS diagnostic tool and, surprise, the air mass readings are at least logical: around 24kg/h at idle and 160kg/h at 3,700 rpm. I'm glad to know I can trust the data from my Bosch KTS on this car.

I haven't been able to do more tests yet, and I still need to try it on the road and perform an emissions test, but it seems that a faulty LH module could work properly when the MAF is disconnected. I'm leaving this here in case it helps someone in the future.

Maybe for some reason, the MAF values were corrupted. What's curious is that the 900kg/h reading appeared both with the MAF disconnected (with the engine running well) and with it connected (with the engine running terribly). With the new module, the value is 0 kg/h when I disconnect the MAF.

Thank you all very much! I'll update you if there are any setbacks.
 
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