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Engine oil recommendations
- Thread starter 550Maranello
- Start date
I'm going out on a limb here and say change your own oil at least 1 time per year no mater what the miles or brand.
Run the car before draining it.........
Then observe what you find in the bottom of the bucket ...
Maybe use a magnet to get any metal for a look to see whats happening in engine.
It's inexpensive and the life blood of your m119 engine
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This has been discussed here on the forum. There is no need or technical requirement to change engine oil annually, especially if few miles are being put on the car.
If say 2,000 or 3,000 miles are put on motor oil (especially dino oil), then yes, there are going to be acids and combustion by-products suspended in the oil, and it makes sense to change the oil if you are preparing to put the car into long-term storage.
However, if you have a car that is lightly used, say 500 to 1,000 miles a year (or less), there is NO NEED to change the oil annually. Oil by itself doesn't degrade just by sitting in an oilpan. If oil did degrade, or have a "shelf life," then auto parts stores would pull it off the shelves after a given "pull date." This is not the case. As long as it is not measurably contaminated or used, oil can and will last for many many years in an engine.
And yes, an engine should be warmed up before changing oil, so that the oil flows better for draining purposes.
If say 2,000 or 3,000 miles are put on motor oil (especially dino oil), then yes, there are going to be acids and combustion by-products suspended in the oil, and it makes sense to change the oil if you are preparing to put the car into long-term storage.
However, if you have a car that is lightly used, say 500 to 1,000 miles a year (or less), there is NO NEED to change the oil annually. Oil by itself doesn't degrade just by sitting in an oilpan. If oil did degrade, or have a "shelf life," then auto parts stores would pull it off the shelves after a given "pull date." This is not the case. As long as it is not measurably contaminated or used, oil can and will last for many many years in an engine.
And yes, an engine should be warmed up before changing oil, so that the oil flows better for draining purposes.
The best way to see what is happening with an engine, is to get an oil analysis after every oil change. I have done this for decades with all of my cars' engines.
Magnetic drain plugs aren't a bad idea, but an oil analysis is going to be best.
I've been running Brad Penn since 2010 in my 560SEC / M117, when I rebuilt the top end of that engine. It's still running just fine using the original catalytic converters that were shipped with the car in 1989. The car has 250K miles on the chassis, and 60+K on the rebuilt engine.
Remember that "back in the day" these engines used dino-based oils that had an API spec with much higher levels of zinc and phosphorus and other chemicals than today's oils have. And these engines' catalytic converters weren't negatively affected.
It's only been the past 15-20 years as cats have evolved, that oils with less of those chemicals have been spec'd, and API ratings have spec'd less of these chemicals in the oils to reduce any ill effects on catalytic converters.
But, if you are using original spec cats, with oils that were in common use/spec at the time the cars were new, then I don't see any problems whatsoever.
Totally agree - no need for changing the oil every year. I just got another Blackstone oil sample test on my other car --- these are their comments (and I used Mobil 1 15W-50, which is a pretty pedestrian oil)
This is another great report for your car. Calendar time does not have a negative impact on oil. If
you went 100 miles in three years, the results should be the same as going 100 miles in one trip.
Operational factors, like how the car is driven, have the most impact. We have no reason to suspect that
any mechanical issues are developing at 62,750 miles. Wear metals compare favorably to your baseline
report, just with a bit more mileage. There isn't any excess fuel or water, and the oil maintained the correct
viscosity. The TBN is strong. Try 3,000 <between oil changes> miles next time!
I had a 117 420 sec 87 and traded it for s5004dr 95
Kind of missed that car but it was sort of like a limo back seat had so much room never needed to work on engine and ran 20 50 castrol
Now run 10 40 cast gtx in 95 500 4dr with m119 engine....
But wife really dented rear quarter panel bad!!!!! And it has a weakkkk reverse so I'm just keeping it running...not sure what to do with it ...it's silver and interior nice!!!
Engine has around 50k miles as top end was rebuilt by mbz under waranty
Never heard of Brad Penn until.last week and thought it was penzoil until I googled...sounds pretty fancy!!!!
..
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At 500 to 1000 per year I tend to agree.
That's abnormally low mileage..
That's not even a garage queen it might be a garage princess...lol
How much and where to get it?
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Agreed.
Another thing to remember is the paper filter element itself. Whilst the oil may last the paper elements do break down over time and can warp or send debris into the oil galleries. I have seen it several times before. My cars only do a couple hundred miles a year. But I still change the oil and filter every 18 months or so. 12 months sounds excessive IMO but 2 years would also be too long for the paper element
One of my cars recently hit the 5kmi mark and was due for a change (Red Line 10W-40). However, I had not paid attention to the amount of time it took to rack up the 5kmi. We moved a few years ago, and prior to that COVID reduced the miles driven. Turns out it was nine years (9!) since the previous change. The engine had consumed roughly 1 quart during the 5kmi (went from a bit over midpoint on the dipstick, to near the MIN mark), but no oil was added. Oil analysis came back 100% AOK, see below. This is a car which is drag raced regularly and probably had a few hundred passes down the 'strip over the 5kmi.
That said: I was lucky the filter was still intact. Joe is 100% correct that the paper filters can get brittle and if you ever attempt a long time interval like this, at least replacing the filter would be a good idea. Again, I didn't do this on purpose... don't try this at home, kids... professional driver on a closed course, etc etc:
That said: I was lucky the filter was still intact. Joe is 100% correct that the paper filters can get brittle and if you ever attempt a long time interval like this, at least replacing the filter would be a good idea. Again, I didn't do this on purpose... don't try this at home, kids... professional driver on a closed course, etc etc:
Probably stay the same or get sliiiightly worse. If the leak is from the side of the timing cover, you can add an external bead of RTV to reduce or possibly stop the leak entirely. Read this for details.
EDIT: Also make sure it's actually the timing cover leaking. >95% of the time, oil leaks in that area are coming from the intake cam advance solenoid/magnet. Gravity pulls the oil down along the timing cover edge so it looks like the main leak is from the timing cover. And, it could be both. Start by replacing or disassembling/resealing the solenoids (details here).
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I would concur, exactly. It would depend 100% on the age, mileage and number of heat cycles that the existing (factory) timing cover sealant had experienced. On an engine with 100K miles or more, I would expect to see PERHAPS a slight amount of leakage at the timing cover. Though, perhaps no leakage as well. It's a bit of a crap-shoot.
Any "high miles" type of oil is likely going to have some gasket/sealant expanders in it to help minimize or prevent seepage and leaks. A Group IV or V base stock "true" synthetic oil may well not have these additives. And yes, engine seals and gaskets do get used to one type of oil, particularly if it has been used for a long time, and a change in oil type/chemistry can invoke leakage and seepage.
I certainly saw this seepage on my G-wagen, when I purchased it 11+ years ago and began using RedLine "full synthetic" gear oils (two different types) in the front+rear differentials, and the transfer case. I have continued to use "dino" oils (Group III base stock) in the engine (Chevron DELO 400LE, which is no longer being made in "dino" variety), and Castrol TransMax (Dexron II/III compliant) in the 722.3 main transmission.
Most newfangled oils these days tend to have some amount seal-swelling agents, to help with leakage from radial seals (e.g., front crank seal). However the timing cover has no seal nor gasket. Once the anaerobic liquid sealant has failed, nothing will "fix" that (besides the aforementioned external Band-Aid). Pulling the timing cover is nightmare fuel, and there's usually no need to ever remove this, which is why the external RTV is a convenient way to eliminate that particular leak if present.
Speaking of what grade oil to use my knew to me 2024 Toyota Camry “Beater” w/18.8K on the clock specifies 0-16 grade oil on the filler cap. The dealer still owes me another service so I’ll be sticking with that grade for about 6K more miles. I’ve never even heard of 0-16 grade oil!
Yeah, Lexus recommends a 10K OCI for our 2024 LX600, using 0W-20 oil. F that. 5W-30 is also specified for this vehicle, for markets that are non-US, so that is what I will go with going forward. We had the oil changed (complimentary change for new vehicle) at 4K miles (6,500 on the truck now), and I will have it changed every 4K going forward.
The Lexus dealership service advisor looked at me as if I was crazy, getting the oil changed at 4K, when they said it should be changed at 10K.
I have a 97 jeep grand cherokee Ltd
5.2 ltr it specifies 10 30.
Using 5 30 provides a quieter start up
As I asume oil flows to valve train quicker?
You did a how to thread on this before correct?
Me either is that like baby oil? Probably flows quickly though!!
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I agree with 5 30 as maybe 0 20 is absurd....crisco oil. 5 30 is the lowest I have used your euro info is insightful....I heard the lower the weight the lower the emissions?
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Which oil do you recomend for a time cover seal leaker should I go back to 20 50 High miles?
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0- 05 sewing machine oil gives superior performance....lol ....
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I'd apply the external RTV bead to stop the timing cover leak and then use whatever oil floats your boat. Yeah it will take a few hours of work but the cost is under ten bucks (plus degreaser & paper towels to clean everything).
That said, I use Mobil-1 10W-40 "High Mileage" oil in my 250kmi E420. Mobil-1 is decent stuff and reasonably priced in 5qt jugs at your local Mal-Wart.
This is probably mentioned somewhere earlier in the 1000 posts in this thread, but "cheaper" oil will start to shear down if you attempt extended drain intervals. Years ago when our cars racked up a lot more miles than today, I'd change at 10kmi (usually 12-18 months). I noticed oil consumption was normal through about 6-7kmi and then the engine would suddenly start "burning" oil around this point. After the change at 10k, the abnormal consumption would end, until about 6-7k.. later, rinse, repeat. Switching to higher quality synthetic eliminated this. Took me YEARS to figure out what was going on there.
If you aren't attempting extended drain intervals, this obviously doesn't matter. Note that I always got oil analysis to verify that the longer intervals were safe. They were always fine, I never bothered going beyond 10k, although the analysis results indicated I could probably push to 15k or maybe even 20k on the cars which were getting primarily freeway miles. This was also back when good oil was still relatively cheap. Today, good stuff is minimum $12-13/qt and usually more like $15-$17/qt, which is nuts.
The 5-40 prob flows well but the 0-40 may be a little thin...
Sewing machine oil was a bad joke please dont use it......
The 5-40 may be good flowing and better than the 0-40....for a car that old
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Nope, never seen new motor oil with a reddish tint. HOWEVER, each brand/type has their own unique color, so it could be normal for whatever the current M-1 15W-50 is.
Got a photo? Put a few drops on a clean paper towel for reference against a white background.
Yea change very year at lesst
For cars driven regularly that get at least a few thousand miles per year, yep... doesn't hurt.
However, scroll back to this post. Engine oil doesn't "go bad" sitting around for a reasonable number of years, but yes, don't use decades-old oil in any engine you care about.
The additive package does deterioate over time.Especially the anti foaming additives.
Shelf life is 5 years according to manufactureres..
Also,when in an engine enviroment, its even worse..
But of course, one can always debate " how bad" the engine and oil will become,by not changing oil etc etc.
Probably you will not notice alot of bad stuff happening. Its like ...do you really ruin your paint by not washing your car...its like...meh.not really.....
But for the most part,we all are into cars we care about, so replacing lubricants " more often than recomended by manufacturer",is a thing that will occur,,and should not be considered a bad thing..if you ask me at least.I think it should be celebrated rather than the other way around
...Id rather have a larger oilspending budget, than risk faults beeing result of a poorly maintained "meh" engine 
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1000% this, I see best before dates on stuff that is ridiculous and completely unnecessary.
I remember many years ago when internet forums were in their infancy, a guy posted that he put cooking oil in his engine because he was on a budget and it was so much cheaper…Old oil in an engine is better than no oil…
Well....yes....that is a factor for sure.
But ,,and there is a big but
There is also scientific data, backing this up . So when it comes to oil, its not just a " sales" thing..Again...you could possibly run a m119 engine on the worst,most incorrect oil there is,and it would still work,and no one would notice..
On alot of stuff it often is indeed completely unnecessary... But Best Before is nothing other than what lays in the wording...BEST before...and it often rings true . When it comes to the additives in the oil..they do loose their capabillities over time. So it is not just some " sales trick argument".
How much is oil analysis neber did one?
Prices vary widely. Blackstone is popular for various reasons but they aren't cheap. $40 for analysis without TBN, $50 with TBN, and that includes free shipping to mail the sample in. Blackstone does provide a personalised report written by a human, which is nice. And they provide a comparison to similar engines/vehicles, another nicety.
Lowest cost option that I know of, which I recent switched to after the Accutrack program ended, is the WIX analysis. Cost is about $20 or so (depending where you buy the kit), plus $5-$7 postage to mail the sample to the lab. Currently $20 at Amazon (link). This report is data only with generic comments, you need to understand what you are looking at. Look at the sample reports posted in reviews at Amazon to see what it looks like. This includes TBN, which is nice (TBN tells you roughly how much life is left in the oil, i.e. did you change it too early or too late).
More details here.
Does the information tell you about the condition of your engine or just the oil and how do you use it?Prices vary widely. Blackstone is popular for various reasons but they aren't cheap. $40 for analysis without TBN, $50 with TBN, and that includes free shipping to mail the sample in. Blackstone does provide a personalised report written by a human, which is nice. And they provide a comparison to similar engines/vehicles, another nicety.
Lowest cost option that I know of, which I recent switched to after the Accutrack program ended, is the WIX analysis. Cost is about $20 or so (depending where you buy the kit), plus $5-$7 postage to mail the sample to the lab. Currently $20 at Amazon (link). This report is data only with generic comments, you need to understand what you are looking at. Look at the sample reports posted in reviews at Amazon to see what it looks like. This includes TBN, which is nice (TBN tells you roughly how much life is left in the oil, i.e. did you change it too early or too late).
More details here.
Look at the sample reports. It tells you the amount of wear metals in the oil, which gives you an idea of engine condition. And, it tells you the amount of additives in the oil as well. TBN, as mentioned previously, tells you how much life is left in the oil before it "needs changed".
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