Silver Arrow Brakes

[mistermiata]

Hi Guys,

I saw these on Benzworld, made an offer, but before I complete the purchase, should I be aware of any particular issues I should ask about with these brakes? Any addition hardware that should be included in the sale? The seller says they are in good condition, pads/brake lines/wear sensors included....

Thanks!

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/sale-wanted-trade-giveaway/1687934-silver-arrow-calipers.html

 

[gsxr]

That's a great price. You'll need new bolts for the rear calipers and 17" or larger wheels. Some of the wear sensors are missing in the photo but those are cheap. You don't need the hoses, use your existing hoses (or buy new s/s braded from WRXtra.com). You'll need to buy new rotors of course.

 

[mistermiata]

Thanks Dave...have 17" Evo's so I am good to go!

 

[8899]

Nice find Andy! Just curious...how much better, performance-wise, are the Silver Arrow brakes over the '94MY stock brakes? I ask because, in my opinion, the stock brakes on my '94 E500 are noticeably inferior to what I was accustomed to on my '04 745.

 

[gsxr]

Andy, as long as you have the correct 8.25"-wide Evo wheels, you're all set. The 7.5"-wide version won't fit.

Greg, the Silver Arrow setup is a noticeable improvement, particularly at high speeds. Don't expect much difference at US-legal speeds though, compared to the 1994 USA brakes, which are not bad. I know someone with a full set available (including rotors) if you're interested.

 

[mistermiata]

Dave....not sure about the width of my Evo's...is there an easy way to check with the wheels on the car?

 

[gsxr]

Dave....not sure about the width of my Evo's...is there an easy way to check with the wheels on the car?

Not that I can think of, no. But if you post a photo of your car with the wheels we can probably tell, assuming you don't have spacers. The 7.5" wheels sit inward quite a bit in the .036 fenders.

 

[szvook]

Andy, if you are going the larger brakes route, I would recommend getting better brake pads and stainless steel brake lines as well.

 

[mistermiata]

Steve....definitely in my plans....gonna go with the braided lines that Dave recommends and will figure out brake pads at some point as well. Gonna need new rotors, so I am spreading out the cost over time since my current stock brakes and pads are fine.

 

[bing]

Nice find , Andy! Complete set and in silver too. One of the better upgrades , straight bolt on, no messin, you can do on a 036. I bought a front set from Dave/GSXR for my friend to fit in my old 94 and noticed the difference...Oh and not to mentioned the look through those EVOs, so you gotta go for cross drilled rotors at least

 

[Trae]

Hi Andy, if you decide to pass on these, let me know. My 92' has the ATE 300mm.

 

[need2speed]

Oh and not to mentioned the look through those EVOs, so you gotta go for cross drilled rotors at least

Agreed! Consider cryo-treating the rotors as well, if you are going with aggressive pads.

 

[szvook]

Gonna need new rotors.

I would get them cadmium plated.

 

[szvook]

Agreed!

+2. The Silver Arrow kit with cross drilled rotors does look quite killer...not to mention how it fills out the 17" wheels.

 

[mistermiata]

Here you go Dave.....what do you think, 7.5" or 8.25" Evo's; sorry, these are the best pics I have....

 

[JordiC]

From the pics they look like 7.5". What is the tire width size? 8.25" rim would, most likely, have a 245 size tire.

That person behind the car in the 3rd pic creeped me out for a moment.

 

[gsxr]

It's hard to tell from those pics, but I don't think those are the 8.25" Evo's. They don't appear to fill out the fenders as much as they should. Only way to tell for sure is to remove a wheel and check the size which is stamped on the rear.

Click here for a photo of the correct 8.25" Evo wheels.

 

[JordiC]

<------ This photo shows an 8.25"

 

[gsxr]

I'm thinking Andy either has the 7.5" factory Evos, or possibly replicase of unknown size.

 

[mistermiata]

I measured as best I could with the wheels on the car, looks like they are 8.25. The tires are 245's, but I will remove one wheel tomorrow to make sure.

Thanks for all the replies gents!

Jordi...that's my girlfriends teenage daughter and she kinda creeps me out too LOL!

Trae...I pulled the trigger on the Silver Arrows. If my wheels turn out to be 7.5, I will pass the brakes on to you my friend!

 

[mistermiata]

Ok guys....

Took off a wheel and I have the 8.25 wheels (sorry Trae )

Brakes are shipping on Monday!

Question....when it's time to buy rotors and pads, what model Mercedes am I looking for for the Silver Arrow brake application?

Thanks!

 

[bing]

Well, Andy, to answer your question it's the R129 SL500/600 Silver arrow edition. And if you're nice someone here should be able to give you part#s . Me call Dave

 

[szvook]

Applies to the SL600 model from the mid 90's (I think 1996) through 2001.

 

[JordiC]

Good news Andy, photo angles really distort perception eh? Anyhoot, now you have an excuse to slam on the brakes at 150mph!

 

[mistermiata]

Good news Andy, photo angles really distort perception eh? Anyhoot, now you have an excuse to slam on the brakes at 150mph!

Yea Jordi those pictures I posted were crap....really need to get a decent camera (all I have is my iPhone, but I just got an iPad 3, wonder if that camera is any better??) I have been on this awesome forum for almost 3 years and haven't posted up a set of decent pictures yet

One other question ...will I need new rear rotors, or just fronts?

 

[gsxr]

For brake pads, use fitments for any 1999-2002 SL500/SL600.

If your wheels had the exact numbers shown below, you are fine:

 

[Trae]

That's OK. I'll eventually join you "upgraded" guys.

 

[mistermiata]

Update.

Silver Arrow brakes arrived.......they look to be in good nick, some small scratches but otherwise appear fine.

I see drilled OEM front rotors ( 129-421-23-12- part # courtesy of Bing ) are only $89 each from parts.com.

I already have drilled and slotted rear rotors so probably won't update to the larger rotors until these wear out.

Dave....do you have a part # for those longer rear caliper bolts I will be needing?

Thanks Guys!

 

[bing]

I already have drilled and slotted rear rotors so probably won't update to the larger rotors until these wear out.

Dave....do you have a part # for those longer rear caliper bolts I will be needing?

Thanks Guys!

you don't need LARGER rotors in the rear assuming US spec 94 MY came with 300mm (as do EURO spec) . Dave can u confirm ?

 

[NIGHT RAIDER]

my car is 500e 1992 from which mercedes car can i bring the brake calibre to fix direct in my car ? the car had the black brembo in front.

 

[maw1124]

+2. The Silver Arrow kit with cross drilled rotors does look quite killer...not to mention how it fills out the 17" wheels.

Yeah. That's hot. I want to do this upgrade, but I just got new front rotors less than a year ago, and SS lines. I don't like the feeling of tossing away money like that. But damn that's hot. This car doesn't stop as well as it goes and turns, and that's a bit of a problem for me, even though I don't often push limits in it.

maw

 

[gsxr]

The USA never got the 300mm rear brakes... the late USA .036 had 320mm front but retained the 278mm rears. So yes, all USA models need the rear brakes upgraded at the same time if you install 334mm fronts.

Andy, I'm out of town at the moment without EPC access, so I don't have the part number handy for the longer rear caliper bolts. If you're not able to get the number by mid-week, shoot me a PM or email, I can look it up when I get back home.

 

[bing]

Had this suspicion about the rears, cheers Dave!

Andy, looks like you'll need to replace rear rotors too , sorry!

 

[bing]

my car is 500e 1992 from which mercedes car can i bring the brake calibre to fix direct in my car ? the car had the black brembo in front.

As above , ones from R129 SL500/600 Silver arrow edition brakes but you need to fit late style front LCAs for clearance. Info here :http://www.500eboard.com/forums/sho...uot-brake-calipers-334mm-Brembo-amp-300mm-Ate and here : http://www.500eboard.com/forums/sho...-Brembo-amp-300mm-Ate&highlight=brembo+brakes


sounds like you have the early type Brembo 300mm calipers .

 

[NIGHT RAIDER]

yes i have the brembo calipers

 

[mistermiata]

Hey Guys,

I have been lurking on the R129 forum on Benzworld and saw a thread about replacement rotors for the silver arrow brake set-up.....

http://www.r1concepts.com/MercedesBenz-SL500-2000-parts.aspx

This place called R1 Concepts can supply 4 cross drilled rotors for $250 delivered (I think with a Benzworld discount). Thats a fantastic price but I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this company and their products?

Heres the thread on benzworld...

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/r129-sl-class/1692707-brake-rotor-recommend-1996-sl500-upgrade.html

 

[gsxr]

That price does NOT sound correct. I'd buy a set quick before they change their minds. I'm curious what the brand is and also country of manufacture...

 

[gerryvz]

Not to mention that the Benzworld connection introduces an additional layer of suspicion/caution......

"If it's on Benzworld, it's NOT Gospel!"
--gerryvz, January 2013

 

[gsxr]

I think I may have solved the mystery. It looks like Centric "economy" rotors are available fairly cheap, about $160 for all four (!). If R1 is buying those at wholesale price, then drilling them, that would almost make sense for a $250 total price after 15% BW discount. Still waiting for the OP on the BW thread to 'fess up as to what's on the box label.

UPDATE: The OP reported Centric "standard" rear part numbers, but no decipherable front part numbers. I'd still bet a mushroom that all four are Centric standard rotors drilled in-house by R1.

 

[szvook]

You guys are seriously considering solid rotors that have been drilled to save some $...? You guys are nuts.

 

[gsxr]

LOL. It's not my personal preference, but drilling solid rotors is very common in the brake aftermarket world. I'd kind of prefer slotted / dimpled as this basically eliminates issues with cracking, while still allowing the outgassing advantages. More info here:

http://www.sp-performance.com/Advantages_Drilled_Slotted.htm

https://www.buybrakes.com/brembo/faq.html#q20


Interesting note allegedly from Brembo:

Are discs with cast-in-place holes better than cross-drilled discs?
Brembo has extensively studied and tested cross-drilling versus casting the holes in place and found no significant effect on performance or durability.​

 

[bing]

Interesting note allegedly from Brembo:

Are discs with cast-in-place holes better than cross-drilled discs?

Brembo has extensively studied and tested cross-drilling versus casting the holes in place and found no significant effect on performance or durability.

So purely just for bling effect then?

 

[gsxr]

So purely just for bling effect then?

Drilling, slotting, or dimpling has some effects to help with bite, outgassing, and in wet conditions. But the primary benefit for street use, IMO, is bling.

 

[mistermiata]

Dave,

Read your post over on Benzworld....thanks for chiming in and getting more info about these rotors ....sounds like they are made from cheap blanks. I will be ordering Zimmerman rotors from parts.com

 

[szvook]

Well, I got off the phone with Brembo today and sure enough they now say that they do drill their own rotors as well and with the newer technologies, the drilled rotors are ok to use. Not what I expected to hear, so when the time to get new rotors is close, I think I'll get slotted rotors instead.

 

[Roma_500E]

As above , ones from R129 SL500/600 Silver arrow edition brakes but you need to fit late style front LCAs for clearance. Info here :http://www.500eboard.com/forums/sho...uot-brake-calipers-334mm-Brembo-amp-300mm-Ate and here : http://www.500eboard.com/forums/sho...-Brembo-amp-300mm-Ate&highlight=brembo+brakes


sounds like you have the early type Brembo 300mm calipers .

Hi guys,

It is time to change my front brakes too cuz at 140mph on a highway when clueless drivers suddenly begin merging in front of me at 55-60 mph , my 300mm PRE face lift brakes reallyyyyyy sucks.

I ve started on working on this upgrade and I have few questions.

1. Why is it neccessary to change the LCA (lower control arm) photos would help ?

2. I saw bunch of brembo calipers out of C215 and W220 (CL500/S500 only , 4 piston photo attached) ? are they the same as SA calipers ? I mean mounts? do they fit 124.036 without modification ?

3. Might be silly question, but can I use my front rotors for the rear with the new calipers on the back ?

Thanx ,

Roma

 

[gsxr]

1. Why is it neccessary to change the LCA (lower control arm) photos would help ?

2. I saw bunch of brembo calipers out of C215 and W220 (CL500/S500 only , 4 piston photo attached) ? are they the same as SA calipers ? I mean mounts? do they fit 124.036 without modification ?

3. Might be silly question, but can I use my front rotors for the rear with the new calipers on the back ?

1) The early control arm will contact the 334mm rotor. Click here for photos.

2) Those calipers are not the same as SA. They won't work, at least not without major modifications, and major headaches. The SA rotors may not fit with those either.

3) Front and rear rotors are completely different and NOT interchangeable, despite the fact they might be the same diameter. Every other dimension is different.


The SA kit is a bolt-on, other than replacing the front LCA, and trimming the rear dust shield. It is not worth the risk of modifying "cheaper" calipers when people's lives are at stake, if something goes wrong. I've sold dozens of the SA kits worldwide, and quite a few forum members have done this upgrade. It's proven to work very well. It's not cheap, but as you discovered, the stock brakes are a joke at high speeds.

 

[bing]

One of the best and practical upgrades on 036s. IMO this should be right up the list of performance upgrades.

 

[Roma_500E]

1) The early control arm will contact the 334mm rotor. Click here for photos.

2) Those calipers are not the same as SA. They won't work, at least not without major modifications, and major headaches. The SA rotors may not fit with those either.

3) Front and rear rotors are completely different and NOT interchangeable, despite the fact they might be the same diameter. Every other dimension is different.


The SA kit is a bolt-on, other than replacing the front LCA, and trimming the rear dust shield. It is not worth the risk of modifying "cheaper" calipers when people's lives are at stake, if something goes wrong. I've sold dozens of the SA kits worldwide, and quite a few forum members have done this upgrade. It's proven to work very well. It's not cheap, but as you discovered, the stock brakes are a joke at high speeds.

Thanx a lot , now everything is clear.

I think I can perform a 6.0 upgrade myself with your help, loooool .

You guys have everything and in very short details what goes where.

Brakes will be my little summer project cuz I discovered twice a really bad joke at high speed

Do you think I can sell the old brakes ? ( front ones ) If I disposed them I would feel bad, especially almost new OEM rotors and pads, and still brembo calipers should be a good upgrade for someone.

What folks here did with the old set ?

 

[szvook]

The SA upgrade does rate right up there with any performance mod we can think of, that's a direct bold-on using factory parts and within a budgeted approach. But it also has a side that just about any performance mod can't touch (aside from a rollcage) - increased safety, which imho is a must when modifying our cars for any speed/power gains. There's no price that one can put on safety and having that aspect increased by a significant amount, completely changes how the car feels and by that nature the SA upgrade is at the top in my books. Plus, no other upgrade can make your car feel much lighter than before aside from a full suspension upgrade, but even that mod would still need better brakes to fully enjoy it.

There's one downside that I can see and that's solely based on my experience, while of the streets and the track - the drivers behind you will not be ready if you decide to brake late or if you apply the brakes quickly (forget standing on them hard, the driver right behind will prolly hit you 80% of the time), so being mindful of the activity from the back is needed more so...if one wants to play around.