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Silver Arrow Brakes

I disposed them I would feel bad, especially almost new OEM rotors and pads, and still brembo calipers should be a good upgrade for someone. What folks here did with the old set ?
Sold mine dirt cheap just to get them off my hands and that included the calipers being painted to match the car, almost new Brembo rotors and Porterfield brake pads. The number was too low to mention, although my front OEM calipers were not the early Brembo's, they were the later Ate calipers (front and rear).

So you have the early 500E Brembo aluminum front calipers?
 

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As Steve points out, the early Brembos are pretty valuable... the 190E/W201 crowd snap them up quick. If they are the iron Ates, those are not worth much, as supply vastly exceeds demand. Ditto for the stock rear brakes, but you can still get a few bucks for 'em You'll need to see what's on your car now. The photo in Steve's post above shows what the 300mm Brembos look like. The 300mm Ates look completely different.

BTW - don't forget you need 17" or larger wheels for the SA setup. Most, but not all, 17"+ wheels fit. Early Monoblocks (from mid 1980's) and the 7.5" Evo wheels are two known exceptions.


:bbq:
 
Sold mine dirt cheap just to get them off my hands and that included the calipers being painted to match the car, almost new Brembo rotors and Porterfield brake pads. The number was too low to mention, although my front OEM calipers were not the early Brembo's, they were the later Ate calipers (front and rear).

So you have the early 500E Brembo aluminum front calipers?

That is exactly what I got, I was surprised how light is this guy . That is why I do not want to dispose nice aluminum brembo calipers :cheers2:

I think caliper itself is good , this is just a matter of size of the rotor which is super small for this car. However, I am not sure if all first owner drove it like nuts back to 90's so the brakes supposed to be fine for them :loony:

BTW - don't forget you need 17" or larger wheels for the SA setup. Most, but not all, 17"+ wheels fit. Early Monoblocks (from mid 1980's) and the 7.5" Evo wheels are two known exceptions.


:bbq:

Thanx for the tip, actually all my wheels are 17 and higher and now I am using 19'' and planning to keep them the whole summer so that shouldn't be a problem.
However if I install this upgrade my 500E will never have the original 16'' , poooooor car :mrgreen:


So any ideas guys how much $$$ for the brembo+rotors+pads ?
 
You can probably get $400+ for your old Brembos, depending on the condition. That will offset the cost of the new brakes.

Cost of the upgrade is approx $400 for all four new rotors (price varies slightly for drilled vs non-drilled), plus approx $125 for Akebono pads (others brands available depending on your preference), plus calipers, plus front LCA's if needed. Price on calipers depends on if you want new calipers ($2434 MSRP, $1750 parts.com), rebuilt calipers (I sell rebuilt sets for under $1k/set including generic pads), or used calipers (price & availability varies, drop me a line if you can't find any).

If you need LCA's, you're looking at $1500-$2000 minimum, don't forget a spring compressor is needed to install the LCA's, and a dealer alignment is required afterwards.

It sounds expensive, but compared to the cost of an accident, it's cheap insurance!

:spend:
 
Have the LCA's gone up in price that much?
Febi LCA's are ~$400/pair. OE LCA's are twice that. Plus pads, rotors, calipers, labor (if installed by a shop), and alignment... it adds up fasssssst! But you stop even faster. :D

:duck:
 
My bad, I took the "If you need LCA's, you're looking at $1500-$2000 minimum" as the cost for LCA's. Around $2,300 was my cost for the SA upgrade which included new LCA's, new rotors, new brake pads, painting the calipers I got from Dave, installation labor and alignment.
 
Not bad at all for my old kit.

I actually was thinking of the front upgrade only ? Do you think it should be fine or it is not a proper way to do ? I do not want to mess with the rear one ...

1500 - 2000 is what I expected to spend.

PM sent regarding your set.

Could you guys provide me with the list of part numbers for the whole upgrade ( I think it would be useful list for everybody who is gonna do this upgrade). I found some part numbers , but the whole list at one place would be really useful. I want to check with my dealer for all parts (very often I got very nice price for the OEM parts).

For pre face lift cars

Calipers SA
Rotors (does the OEM SA comes perforated ?)
LCA later style
Pads (SA rear and front)
Rotors back SA
Calipers back SA


Thanx
 
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Not bad at all for my old kit.

I actually was thinking of the front upgrade only ? Do you think it should be fine or it is not a proper way to do ? I do not want to mess with the rear one ...

Could you guys provide me with the list of part numbers for the whole upgrade ( I think it would be useful list for everybody who is gonna do this upgrade). I found some part numbers , but the whole list at one place would be really useful. I want to check with my dealer for all parts (very often I got very nice price for the OEM parts).

For pre face lift cars

Calipers SA
Rotors (does the OEM SA comes perforated ?)
LCA later style
Pads (SA rear and front)
Rotors back SA
Calipers back SA


Thanx

It's better to update the front and rear brakes for better balance, especially if 278mm calipers are in the rear. I'm not sure if the SA kit initially came with cross drilled rotors back then.

The rear upgrade only needs longer bolts, compared to list of the front upgrade.

Here are some part numbers.

334mm Brembo front caliper (Black color)
• Part# 001-420-77-83 Left
• Part# 001-420-78-83 Right

334mm Brembo front caliper (Silver Color)
• Part# 001-420-99-83 Left
• Part# 002-420-00-83 Right

300mm Ate rear caliper (Unpainted)
• Part# 001-420-37-83 Left
• Part# 001-420-38-83 right

300mm Ate rear caliper (Silver color)
• Part# 129-423-03-98 Left
• Part# 129-423-04-98 Right

Late SL500/SL600 (non-drilled) front rotor:
• Size: 334mm x 32mm - part# 129-421-21-12

Silver Arrow models (drilled) front rotor:
• Size: 334mm x 32mm - part# 129-421-23-12

E500 Euro, SL500/SL600 (solid) rear rotor:
• Size: 300mm x 22mm - part# 129-423-03-12

Silver Arrow model (drilled) rear rotots:
• Size: 300mm x 22mm - part# 129-423-05-12

I use Porterfield brake pads, the R4-S model and have been extremely happy with them, street and track tested. In case the part numbers are needed, see bellow.

• AP-847 - front 334mm pads
• AP-603 - rear 300mm pads

Almost forgot, there's no need to upgrade the factory brake booster or master cylinder for the SA kit.
 
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Steve's part numbers all look correct! You can also get pads from Akebono and EBC, in addition to the OE Mercedes pads.

:banana2:
 
Just to add. Unless a brand new set of SA calipers is a must, a rebuild set from Dave is the best way to go and still have some cash to maybe get; SS lines, better brake pads, better brake fluid and if needed, paint the calipers to your color preference.
 
Just to add. Unless a brand new set of SA calipers is a must, a rebuild set from Dave is the best way to go and still have some cash to maybe get; SS lines, better brake pads, better brake fluid and if needed, paint the calipers to your color preference.

Steve's part numbers all look correct! You can also get pads from Akebono and EBC, in addition to the OE Mercedes pads.

:banana2:


Beautiful guys ! Got everything . Appreciate tips and part numbers :respekt:

I usually prefer to have OEM parts except much better quality/performance aftermarket parts.
However, in case with the pads I got an OEM set, but I am really tired of the brake dust :miserable:

With the suuuper conservative driving I have to hand wash damn thing once a day but with enthusiastic driving it really sucks so sometime I have to wash it two times a day :humper:

So I think I should go with the aftermarket pads either EBC, Akebono or Porterfield. Want get rid of brake dust and for sure do not want them squeaking :cheers1:

I ll see what Dave got and will go from there.

I think used/rebuild calipers is fine and everything else I can get from the dealer thanks Steve I got all part numbers (confirmed by Dave) 8-)
 
Porterfield pads create way less dust than OE pads and since they are of a ceramic compound, the dust they leave is not dark at all, almost a light taupe color. I had my wheels washed prior to my track day at Willow Springs to see how much dust driving to and back from the track (over 250 miles round trip) would leave as well as the laps at the track with hard braking at higher speeds and my wheels looked almost as clean as when I left to the track. I even left the wheels unwashed for almost a month afterwards and with daily commute, the wheels still looked quite clean and my wheels have polished aluminum lips (4" deep on the rear wheels) which will show any dust quite fast. Even the front wheels looked quite clean and the design of my wheels is fairly open, so there more room for dust to show up. Porterfield R4-S pads are also very quiet, but any pad can squeak if not broken in properly.

The other reason for less dust is less heat with the SA kit. The calipers are futher away from the rotors center, which creates more friction heat. I noticed that when I had the factory 300mm and 278mm calipers and Porterfield pads as well.
 
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As far as the LCA part numbers, I got Febi LCA's from Autohaus (stamped with Made in Germany) and with the same part numbers 124-330-3407 and 124-330-3507 that I got from the stealership.
 
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So for the brakes I am thinking two options SA or SLK55 6 piston 340/360mm rotors.
Visited my lovely dealership and here is what I found.

Pricing for those who might be interested in how much are those brand new.

Silver SA calipers

Right - 002 -420-00-83 - list $935 my price $748
Left - 001-420-99-83 - list $850 my price $680

Black SA calipes

001-420-77-83 list $835 / $668
001-420-78-83 lsit$900/ $720

Rotors (X2) - 129-421-23-12-64? $119/$95

SLK 55 P030 option 6 piston calipers

003-420-67-83 $725/$580
003-420-68-83 $725/$580

Rotors SLK55 P030
340 mm ? one piece ?

209-421-01-12 -$785/$628

Rotors SL55 R230 , two piece , 360mm

230-421-12-12 - $935/$841 :shock:

So based on the prices I am thinking more about 6 piston calipers , look big and fancy , exactly what I want . The only problem is rotors :spend:
 
So for the brakes I am thinking two options SA or SLK55 6 piston 340/360mm rotors.
Visited my lovely dealership and here is what I found.

Pricing for those who might be interested in how much are those brand new.

Rotors SL55 R230 , two piece , 360mm

230-421-12-12 - $935/$841

So based on the prices I am thinking more about 6 piston calipers , look big and fancy , exactly what I want . The only problem is rotors :spend:

Roman,

The R230 rotors doesn't fit! The hat/hub has too high ET and the disc thickness is 36mm. As I explained in my Email to you - you cannot use any of the 2-piece rotors for E, S, SL, CLS on the 036. The AMG P030 6-piston calipers you have listed do neither fit the R230 rotors, they are for 32mm rotors. Be careful to not mix these brake groups, if you are going with the AMG/Brembo, you have to stay to the CLK/SLK 55 AMG cars (209/171). You do also have to separate between the 340mm and 360mm set-up in the P030 package.

The 360mm set-up may be about twice the price over the 340mm due to the rotor price. Additionally it is quite some custom work required on the calipers, the brake line port will interefere with the steering knuckle and need some machining.

-a-
 
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Ditto what Arnt posted above. Also, the calipers are different between 340mm and 360mm fronts. You MUST get matching calipers+rotors. Your list shows the same calipers but with two different rotor sizes... can't do that.

The Silver Arrow kit is the only kit I know of with factory parts that can be installed without major modifications (other than the lower control arm swap, and rear dust shield trimming). The aftermarket kits from StopTech and MovIt should also be bolt-on, but at an insane price.

You can get full Silver Arrow kits with used calipers for under $1k, or around $1200 including new rotors & pads. It's not worth buying new. Don't forget you MUST upgrade the rear brakes to match the front, especially if installing the 6- or 8-piston AMG fronts.

:hornets:
 
Roman,

The R230 rotors doesn't fit! The hat/hub has too high ET and the disc thickness is 36mm. As I explained in my Email to you - you cannot use any of the 2-piece rotors for E, S, SL, CLS on the 036. The AMG P030 6-piston calipers you have listed do neither fit the R230 rotors, they are for 32mm rotors. Be careful to not mix these brake groups, if you are going with the AMG/Brembo, you have to stay to the CLK/SLK 55 AMG cars (209/171). You do also have to separate between the 340mm and 360mm set-up in the P030 package.

The 360mm set-up may be about twice the price over the 340mm due to the rotor price. Additionally it is quite some custom work required on the calipers, the brake line port will interefere with the steering knuckle and need some machining.

-a-

Yup, I messed up here , no R230 rotors, I always forget about that. I printed out your email so everything on me :star:

I do remember the modifications needed .

The only thing I do not know is the brake master cylinder ? Which one I should get instead of OEM ?

So what is the two piece one ? A 209 ? the monoblock is A171 ? Are they going to fit one caliper ?
Ditto what Arnt posted above. Also, the calipers are different between 340mm and 360mm fronts. You MUST get matching calipers+rotors. Your list shows the same calipers but with two different rotor sizes... can't do that.

The Silver Arrow kit is the only kit I know of with factory parts that can be installed without major modifications (other than the lower control arm swap, and rear dust shield trimming). The aftermarket kits from StopTech and MovIt should also be bolt-on, but at an insane price.

You can get full Silver Arrow kits with used calipers for under $1k, or around $1200 including new rotors & pads. It's not worth buying new. Don't forget you MUST upgrade the rear brakes to match the front, especially if installing the 6- or 8-piston AMG fronts.

:hornets:

Well , I understand there is no need to get new ones but price for the brand new is pretty close for the used . However utility/no hassle I get from the new one is much more.
1) factory paint which lasts forever while the one from jerks bodyshops is crappy or you have to go to premium body shop and they will charge 350 per caliper :oldster:
2) No hassle and problems with the rebuild pistons 100% or I can take em back to dealer and kick their ass :star:

Moreover for the price of SA I may get fancy big brakes that I want though with some modification.

According to you Dave 8-pistons are bad and they came only on older E S SL CL 55K (as far as I know) and have 4 pads per side so they are not available for SLK/CLK which is newer model with the right offset and mountings spots.
 
The 8-piston setup will not work without a lot of custom modification, and IIRC, also custom rotors ($$$$). Generally, a bad idea. Not to mention those rotors are some of the heaviest boat anchors MB ever produced. (!!) I've seen some 6-piston setups installed with OE 2-pc rotors but the mods are much more than I'm willing to do. I don't recommend any of those brakes for a 124/129 and I can't help with technical info, sorry. If you want/need bigger than Silver Arrow, buy StopTech or MovIt. The Silver Arrow setup is plenty adequate for any E500E up through about 450-500hp... the only time you'd need larger brakes is if you had more power than that, and I can count on one hand the number of 036's with over 450hp.

The Silver Arrow kit has been proven to work well with the stock master cylinder. I can't say the same for the 6- or 8-piston setups, except to pass along the feedback from the previous owner(s) of my '92 which had the 8-piston fronts installed with 4-piston rears... they reported the pedal feel was poor (excessive travel, I think). The PO of my car removed that funky setup and installed Silver Arrows, which worked GREAT.

If you have an unlimited budget and can experiment with custom AMG brakes that have not yet been proven on the 124, great, go for it... just don't be surprised if you end up having to re-do work and change calipers/rotors/MC's because you're not happy with the results. Then again, if you have an unlimited budget, just buy StopTech or MovIt kits which are properly engineered for our cars and don't require funky mods. If you are on a budget, I'd stick with what has been proven by dozens of people (not two or three) worldwide to work well. Not to mention they are a bargain.

Used Silver Arrow, all four with new rotors/pads, est $1200 total
StopTech, fronts only, est $2500 plus larger OE rears
MovIt, fronts or all four, starts at ~$3000 and goes up to ~$10k, I think, depending on how crazy you want to get


:mushroom1:
 
The 8-piston setup will not work without a lot of custom modification, and IIRC, also custom rotors ($$$$). Generally, a bad idea. Not to mention those rotors are some of the heaviest boat anchors MB ever produced. (!!) I've seen some 6-piston setups installed with OE 2-pc rotors but the mods are much more than I'm willing to do. I don't recommend any of those brakes for a 124/129 and I can't help with technical info, sorry. If you want/need bigger than Silver Arrow, buy StopTech or MovIt. The Silver Arrow setup is plenty adequate for any E500E up through about 450-500hp... the only time you'd need larger brakes is if you had more power than that, and I can count on one hand the number of 036's with over 450hp.

The Silver Arrow kit has been proven to work well with the stock master cylinder. I can't say the same for the 6- or 8-piston setups, except to pass along the feedback from the previous owner(s) of my '92 which had the 8-piston fronts installed with 4-piston rears... they reported the pedal feel was poor (excessive travel, I think). The PO of my car removed that funky setup and installed Silver Arrows, which worked GREAT.

If you have an unlimited budget and can experiment with custom AMG brakes that have not yet been proven on the 124, great, go for it... just don't be surprised if you end up having to re-do work and change calipers/rotors/MC's because you're not happy with the results. Then again, if you have an unlimited budget, just buy StopTech or MovIt kits which are properly engineered for our cars and don't require funky mods. If you are on a budget, I'd stick with what has been proven by dozens of people (not two or three) worldwide to work well. Not to mention they are a bargain.

Used Silver Arrow, all four with new rotors/pads, est $1200 total
StopTech, fronts only, est $2500 plus larger OE rears
MovIt, fronts or all four, starts at ~$3000 and goes up to ~$10k, I think, depending on how crazy you want to get


:mushroom1:

My 036 has to be my real wife with beautiful skin, face, legs and decent boobies to make me spent $10 000 on brakes :grin:

We all know there is no budget with 036 , when you start spending $$ on this beauty you barely can stop .

I am looking to spend up to $3000 for the big fancy brake set which will be just unbelievable cool.

I do not see a point to spend up to 10K for 320HP cruiser. I do think I want to get StopTech either those are good brakes for performance cars not for fast cruiser 036.

500AMM is going to install SLK55/CLK55 calipers all around so may be I should wait for his result :twisted:

I feel uncomfortable to pay appx $750 for SA calipers when fancy big AMG are $580 . I feel $580 is relatively affordable .

Is it really 1200 all four out of a door, cuz only rotors will be appx $350 (x4) and pads $160 (x2) ?

I found front set (calipers only) and they are asking $1199.

Actually I settled to SA kit but Arnt emailed me with all data and links so now I am between two SA or AMG's :grin:

I hope I ll figured it out in the winter , we are enjoying our last warm days so pretty soon 036 is going to sleep for the winter.
 
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I feel uncomfortable to pay appx $750 for SA calipers when fancy big AMG are $580 .
Keep in mind, the SA's front calipers are Brembo's, which are prolly better than AMG. The rear calipers are Ate (which make good brakes as well and have been providing OEM brakes for Mercedes for a long time - the "only downside", the rear Ate's do not look as stylish as the front Brembo's do and that's where the AMG kits wins, do I do understand your pursue for the AMG's), but the one that counts for your stopping power are the front calipers. Otherwise, I bet StopTech would have a rear kit as well.

Movit on the other hand, can get parts to build a rear kit, which also somewat separates StopTech from Movit - StopTech builds all their calipers from scratch and Movit will use other manufacturer's parts, when needed.

The last thing you want is trying to fit a kit that's not meant to go on without some major work. That's where any bolt on kit wins, not too mention the reliability of the kit and that is the reason for a proper one - will it stop me when I need it the most and can I do it over and over and over...
 
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Movit also built their own now , in the past they were using brembo for their kit but that's long time ago
 
Rotors for the SilverArrow brakes are $338 (non-drilled) for all four Zimmermans delivered from AHAZ, or $432 for cross-drilled. Pads are $110 for front+rear for Akebonos from Amazon. Figure $450 total for non-drilled rotors and new pads. You'll pay a bit more for drilled, or if you want OE MB rotors/pads instead of Zimmerman/Akebono.

The main cost variable is the calipers... I sell all four rebuilts for ~$1k when I can get them, and used ones for less. Let's say $750 delivered for a set of good used calipers (cleaned up & ready to bolt on), plus the $450 outlined above, and you're at $1200 total plus installation. I saw that kit you mentioned at $1199 for fronts only (USED fronts!), I think they are a bit, uh, optimistic. I must say they did a nice job with the paint job and photos.

Used calipers are usually fine from a functional standpoint, but the cosmetics can vary widely, and it's often a PITA to properly clean them up & paint them, plus they should have the pistons cycled in & out to verify smooth movement, which is also a hassle.

:spend:
 
Keep in mind, the SA's front calipers are Brembo's, which are prolly better than AMG.
I believe most of the AMG calipers are also made by Brembo... at least some of them are, not sure if all are though.


The rear calipers are Ate (which make good brakes as well and have been providing OEM brakes for Mercedes for a long time), but the one that counts for your stopping power are the front calipers. Otherwise, I bet StopTech would have a rear kit as well.
Fronts provide the majority of stopping power which is why they are larger than the rears. StopTech designed their front kit to work well with stock rears, although I think you could use the 300mm Ate rears with StopTech without issues if desired. I don't think I'd bump up to the 330mm rears with StopTech fronts without consulting their technical department first. I think StopTech didn't do a rear kit more for lack of demand, but I'm not certain. I remember the guy who worked with StopTech to develop the kit (500Ecstasy forum member "Guido", IIRC?) years ago on his 500E.

BTW - I had thought the StopTech kit would work with early LCA's, but based on their technical drawing, it looks like those also require late LCA's... bummer.

:wormhole:
 
Chiming in here. I just picked up a set of SA and Ate calipers from gsxr and they have been beautifully restored. They look perfect and come with the rear bolts and all the usual safety notices you'd expect from a top notch vendor. I have the LCA'a, hoses and rotors coming from a few sources.

I can't wait to install them along with a set of AMG II's. Just waiting for a few more parts and a trip north to pick up the rims. Coming soon.
 
Yes, I am going to install the AMG performance package P030 all around. It is 6-piston on 360x32 and 4-piston on 330x26. The calipers are made by Brembo. I have been collecting the parts over a long time, some new and some secondhand. I have investigated quite deeply and I've also been in contact with Movit, AMG and Brembo for details. This is NOT a plug & play kit, it requires custom brackets and some machining. I'll post a specific thread when time comes.

As for the 8-piston AMGs - don't even think about it! Nothing fits and it requires a lot of custom work. They are not as near as good as they appear, heavy, no option for aftermarket rotors etc.. I was in fact warned about using them. I guess AMG had their reasons to leave that design.

-a-
 

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Yes, I am going to install the AMG performance package P030 all around. It is 6-piston on 360x32 and 4-piston on 330x26. The calipers are made by Brembo. I have been collecting the parts over a long time, some new and some secondhand. I have investigated quite deeply and I've also been in contact with Movit, AMG and Brembo for details. This is NOT a plug & play kit, it requires custom brackets and some machining. I'll post a specific thread when time comes.

As for the 8-piston AMGs - don't even think about it! Nothing fits and it requires a lot of custom work. They are not as near as good as they appear, heavy, no option for aftermarket rotors etc.. I was in fact warned about using them. I guess AMG had their reasons to leave that design.

-a-

Rears a PITA , but front one should not be that bad . What about custom mount bracket for the front ? I think I missed that point ... Where can I get one here in the US ?

Chiming in here. I just picked up a set of SA and Ate calipers from gsxr and they have been beautifully restored. They look perfect and come with the rear bolts and all the usual safety notices you'd expect from a top notch vendor. I have the LCA'a, hoses and rotors coming from a few sources.

I can't wait to install them along with a set of AMG II's. Just waiting for a few more parts and a trip north to pick up the rims. Coming soon.

Jealous:cheers2: You guys make me more excited to get brakes update.

Rotors for the SilverArrow brakes are $338 (non-drilled) for all four Zimmermans delivered from AHAZ, or $432 for cross-drilled. Pads are $110 for front+rear for Akebonos from Amazon. Figure $450 total for non-drilled rotors and new pads. You'll pay a bit more for drilled, or if you want OE MB rotors/pads instead of Zimmerman/Akebono.

The main cost variable is the calipers... I sell all four rebuilts for ~$1k when I can get them, and used ones for less. Let's say $750 delivered for a set of good used calipers (cleaned up & ready to bolt on), plus the $450 outlined above, and you're at $1200 total plus installation. I saw that kit you mentioned at $1199 for fronts only (USED fronts!), I think they are a bit, uh, optimistic. I must say they did a nice job with the paint job and photos.

Used calipers are usually fine from a functional standpoint, but the cosmetics can vary widely, and it's often a PITA to properly clean them up & paint them, plus they should have the pistons cycled in & out to verify smooth movement, which is also a hassle.

:spend:

Thanx a lot for full list of prices .

I will definitely go with OEM rotors and pads if they are better than Zimmerman/Akebono (sometimes aftermarket better than OEM) ?

I can get rear ones for really cheap , so I am looking to buy only front calipers ? I beieve it should be around $500 ?

Dave , do you have an idea about difference between SA and those AMG's by Brembo 6 pistons ?
 
This is NOT a plug & play kit, it requires custom brackets and some machining. I'll post a specific thread when time comes.

Rears a PITA , but front one should not be that bad.

What about custom mount bracket for the front ? I think I missed that point ... Where can I get one here in the US ?

The only difference between the 6-piston AMGs for 360mm versus 340mm is the height on the mounting bracket. Seconhand calipers for 360mm is hard to find as a needle in the haystack, so I bought calipers for 340mm and planned to replace the mounting brackets. But the mounting brackets are not sold separately, so I contacted Brembo to do the replacement, but they don't take on such jobs. So I'll make 10mm sleeves and use longer bolts. I have copies of the original Brembo assembly drawings showing materials, dimensions and tolerences. The calipers are also specific for left and right due to differential piston bore in the rotational direction.

For the rear 4-piston AMGs it depends on which type you are using. Those shown in my previous post is the newer type having a style more inline with the fronts, so I chose them. These doesn't fit at all, but the interface is ideal to insert a simple mounting bracket. I hope to have those brackets water cut. The previous 4-piston AMGs shown in this post fits directly on the car, and they are not so expensive either. That blue set is for sale in case someone is interested.

Here is a thread with some information about AMG BBK (big brake kit):
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?1037-6-piston-AMG-calipers-and-360x32mm-discs

I have not investigated so much on the brake pump and booster yet. I expect a longer pedal travel due to increased piston chamber volume, but I want to try it as is first.

:rockon:
 

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Rotors for the SilverArrow brakes are $338 (non-drilled) for all four Zimmermans delivered from AHAZ, or $432 for cross-drilled. Pads are $110 for front+rear for Akebonos from Amazon. Figure $450 total for non-drilled rotors and new pads. You'll pay a bit more for drilled, or if you want OE MB rotors/pads instead of Zimmerman/Akebono.

The main cost variable is the calipers... I sell all four rebuilts for ~$1k when I can get them, and used ones for less. Let's say $750 delivered for a set of good used calipers (cleaned up & ready to bolt on), plus the $450 outlined above, and you're at $1200 total plus installation. I saw that kit you mentioned at $1199 for fronts only (USED fronts!), I think they are a bit, uh, optimistic. I must say they did a nice job with the paint job and photos.

Used calipers are usually fine from a functional standpoint, but the cosmetics can vary widely, and it's often a PITA to properly clean them up & paint them, plus they should have the pistons cycled in & out to verify smooth movement, which is also a hassle.

:spend:

Hey Dave,

Care to enlighten me on this process? I was wondering how to do this before buying everything needed to switch over to the Silver Arrows I bought off of Benzworld. Hate to spend all that time and money and find out the callers need a rebuild because the pistons are frozen.....:oops:
 
Rears a PITA , but front one should not be that bad .
Roma, it's the opposite. The rears are almost a bolt-on other than cutting the dust shield. The fronts are a nightmare to install. For starters you need to cut the steering knuckle, and fabricate custom hydraulic lines.
 
Care to enlighten me on this process? I was wondering how to do this before buying everything needed to switch over to the Silver Arrows I bought off of Benzworld. Hate to spend all that time and money and find out the callers need a rebuild because the pistons are frozen.....:oops:
Basically you used compressed air to push the pistons out against a wood/metal block the thickness of the rotor, to prevent the pistons from popping out of the caliper body. Then press them back in (carefully!) with pliers. Repeat several times. Make sure all four pistons will come out with air pressure. Don't let any piston pop out of the housing or you'll be in trouble...

:banana1:
 
Thanks Dave! Any idea how much air pressure is needed? I don't have an air compressor but I have an electric air pump that can inflate car tires :scratchchin:...any chance that would work?
 
The only difference between the 6-piston AMGs for 360mm versus 340mm is the height on the mounting bracket. Seconhand calipers for 360mm is hard to find as a needle in the haystack, so I bought calipers for 340mm and planned to replace the mounting brackets. But the mounting brackets are not sold separately, so I contacted Brembo to do the replacement, but they don't take on such jobs. So I'll make 10mm sleeves and use longer bolts. I have copies of the original Brembo assembly drawings showing materials, dimensions and tolerences. The calipers are also specific for left and right due to differential piston bore in the rotational direction.

For the rear 4-piston AMGs it depends on which type you are using. Those shown in my previous post is the newer type having a style more inline with the fronts, so I chose them. These doesn't fit at all, but the interface is ideal to insert a simple mounting bracket. I hope to have those brackets water cut. The previous 4-piston AMGs shown in this post fits directly on the car, and they are not so expensive either. That blue set is for sale in case someone is interested.

Here is a thread with some information about AMG BBK (big brake kit):
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?1037-6-piston-AMG-calipers-and-360x32mm-discs

I have not investigated so much on the brake pump and booster yet. I expect a longer pedal travel due to increased piston chamber volume, but I want to try it as is first.

:rockon:

So if I go with 340 mm rotors I will not need a custom bracket ? I can use factory CLK55/SLK55 one right ?

For the rear ones . There are newer and older ones , are they from different cars ?

How much do you want for yours including shipping ?

I am interested in those that does not require modifications ? What car they are from ?
 
Roma, it's the opposite. The rears are almost a bolt-on other than cutting the dust shield. The fronts are a nightmare to install. For starters you need to cut the steering knuckle, and fabricate custom hydraulic lines.

For the rear ones I heard you have to change emergency brake system a little and so on.

What about break hoses ? I have to make custom ones ? or I can buy amg's or any aftermarket ones ?
 
Thanks Dave! Any idea how much air pressure is needed? I don't have an air compressor but I have an electric air pump that can inflate car tires :scratchchin:...any chance that would work?
You need a compressor with a tank that has a healthy reserve. I've never experimented to find out the minimum pressure but my setup feeds ~100psi. Oh, I forgot to mention, make sure you leave the pads installed when testing! And insert something approx 32mm thick to simulate the rotor. That prevents the pistons from overextending.

:5150:
 
So if I go with 340 mm rotors I will not need a custom bracket ? I can use factory CLK55/SLK55 one right ?
You may not need a custom bracket, but you still have a lot of custom modifications required, including cutting the steering arm, and custom hoses, etc. Nothing about this is a bolt-on.


I am interested in those that does not require modifications ? What car they are from ?
Uh, those would be the Silver Arrow brakes. :mushroom:


For the rear ones I heard you have to change emergency brake system a little and so on.
There are a few different rears available. You need to get the correct rears. I am not aware of modifications required for the rear if you get the correct stuff. (Sorry, I can't help with part numbers or models/years for donors.)


What about break hoses ? I have to make custom ones ? or I can buy amg's or any aftermarket ones ?
For the rears, if you needed longer hoses (I don't think so, but just in case) WRXtra can make hoses longer than stock if required. For the 6-piston fronts, IIRC you need to cut things and use a banjo fitting. You'll need to search other forums and see what other people had to do. I've seen photos and I was NOT willing to do the mods required. Simply not worth it for what ends up being an appearance package. What I saw was on the 6-piston calipers, you have to cut / mill the fluid inlet on the caliper, which is something you can't un-do.


:mushroom1:
 
You may not need a custom bracket, but you still have a lot of custom modifications required, including cutting the steering arm, and custom hoses, etc. Nothing about this is a bolt-on.

Well those are minor and DIY modifications :sawzall:



For the 6-piston fronts, IIRC you need to cut things and use a banjo fitting.

That is the only issue so far that I do not how to solve :apl: It has to be banjo bolt on one end and regular fit on the other . Is there brake hose like that for sale ? Cuz I do not know how to make that kind of hose plus do not want to monkey around with brakes :stickpoke:

What I saw was on the 6-piston calipers, you have to cut / mill the fluid inlet on the caliper, which is something you can't un-do.

Who cares about calipers , the most important thing will be almost unaffected (036) :cheers3:

Plus you should admit fancy appearance package which looks good =)

On pics attached a guy installed update brakes with OLDER style LCA with replaceable ball joints . Am I right or I missed something ?
 

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So if I go with 340 mm rotors I will not need a custom bracket ? I can use factory CLK55/SLK55 one right ?

For the rear ones . There are newer and older ones , are they from different cars ?

How much do you want for yours including shipping ?

I am interested in those that does not require modifications ? What car they are from ?

OK, I think this should be my last post here about AMG brakes, since this thread is about Silver Arrow brakes.

If you want something bigger than Silver Arrow with direct fit, then go for MOVIT. It is not cheap, but nothing is cheap with the 036 anyway. MOVIT are nice people to cooperate with and they are German so the quality is excellent, and you even get TüV documents on their brake kit. Expect more pedal travel with the AMG brakes, I don't know how that is with the MOVIT but likely with them too. I still don't know how the pedal feeling will be without replacing the brake pump.

Front:
  • 6-piston on 340mm don't need a custom bracket, but probably a couple of washers to adjust the clearance inside the caliper and the outer circumference on the disc
  • use the later type LCA
  • cut off the stop buffer on the steering knuckle and make a replacement function on the caliper bracket lower point, or work out something else
  • the simplest way to connect the brake line is a banjo fitting on the inner vent ports, WRXtra or similar. The proper way requires machining of the existing port.
  • cut and adapt the "dust shield" (..which actually is a shield to achieve air cooling, and for protection)
  • use minimum 18" wheels
Rear:
  • early type 4-pot on 330mm is more or less bolt on, no need for a custom bracket. (But the later style 4-pot I am using requires a bracket)
  • the parking brake drum is wider on these discs, so the brake shoes and internals has to be replaced with f.ex. W210 parts
  • WRXtra brake lines or similar
  • the dust shield to be cut and adapted
  • bigger wheels, depends on the fronts
Final words:
I am doing this of three reasons; better brakes, a good look, and it is fun to create things.
Do I need it - NO!
I even don't need this particular car. I need food, fresh air, and fresh water - everything else in the life is choices. :-)

-a-
 
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Sorry Arnt I know you said its you last post on the AMG calipers... but one question:

- As I remember you had the Silver Arrow brakes then moved to AMG setup.. braking power difference ? in what circumstances ?
 
No, I have the stock brakes on both cars. I've considered several brake kits, but decided to stay with the "AMG route". Here in Norway it is mostly 80kmh speed limit, and more and more roads with dual driving directions are reduced to 70kmh due to tragic front collisions. 35 minutes away from me is "Heaven" with 100kmh! :-)

I will hardly race the SuperMerc during a year, but hopefully take trips to the Fatherland once a summer. But honestly I don't need bigger brakes, it is most for fun to create things and giving a technical balance on the car, plus a nice style too.

:tigger:
 
So I ordered my drilled front R129 rotors from parts.com. I am slowly accumulating the parts to convert to the Silver Arrow brakes.

From parts.com they were $85.20 each, and shipping was $22(freight quote option) which is very reasonable considering how heavy these sucker are and how well packed they were, for a total of $192. Oh, I forgot to add in the $2 "handling fee".

They cost $112.78 each from Autohauz with free shipping for a total of $225.

Next up, SS brake hoses from WRXtra.com....Dave, what part # am I looking for for the front/rear lines from them?
 

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Next up, SS brake hoses from WRXtra.com....Dave, what part # am I looking for for the front/rear lines from them?
Here's a link... they don't list part numbers, but it's the C-,D,E,S-,T- hoses Front and Rear:
http://www.wrxtra.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=32

Front:
http://www.wrxtra.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=54

Rear:
http://www.wrxtra.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=55


Before ordering, check the size of the hex fitting on the front hoses. The vast majority of 124's will have 17mm hex, but apparently a handful of late build cars have 14mm hex. Best to check before you order.

:bbq:
 

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So I ordered my drilled front R129 rotors from parts.com. I am slowly accumulating the parts to convert to the Silver Arrow brakes.

From parts.com they were $85.20 each, and shipping was $22(freight quote option) which is very reasonable considering how heavy these sucker are and how well packed they were, for a total of $192. Oh, I forgot to add in the $2 "handling fee".

They cost $112.78 each from Autohauz with free shipping for a total of $225.

Next up, SS brake hoses from WRXtra.com....Dave, what part # am I looking for for the front/rear lines from them?


I recently bought the same rotors from parts.com. My shipping cost was a tad higher because I also bought rears. However, the packaging of the rotors was downright shite. I think they found the biggest box they could get their hands on, threw the rotos in there along with some of those clear air pillows and shipped. When they arrived one of my rotos was practically sticking out of the box.

Also got the WRXtra brake lines...they were a perfect fit for my '94.
 
I ve also just received these beauties on the photo. :drool5::drool5::drool5:

They are actually pretty heavy . I compared them to Porsche Cayenne S caliper which is at least twice lighter than SA. :shock:

Anyway I ll start with the SA and see how it works, in case I do not like I ll go with AMG 6 pot. :bbq:

Got calipers from VERY low mileage vehicle, absolutely functional . All rubber seals are like new and clean .

However, I want them repaint . So I need your help guys . I am going to sand blast it first and then :

1) Should I paint it myself with the spray cans ? Paint , then clear coat ?
or
2) Take it to shop and have them spray it for me ?

What kind of primer should I use ?

Should I use regular paint in 1) and 2) case ? Or would you recommend some sort of special paint ?

I want to make it something close to factory paint quality.
 

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I would paint them Yourself and save some coin. Use Hi-temp paint as described on the cans' instructions. Most Auto parts stores carry it. I don't know if they sell a high temp clear. I would use it if available.

I'll be ordering two rear Silver Arrow rotors tomorrow to complete my parts list for my brake upgrade. They will be paired with Wilwood 355mm fronts. I'll post all the specifics for anyone interested once I have everything on the car, which should be within a couple weeks.

Dave, You mentioned at the beginning of this discussion that longer bolts are needed for the Silver Arrow rear calipers. Do you know offhand what size and length they need to be so that I can have them on hand?
Thanks for any help.
drew
 
I would paint them Yourself and save some coin. Use Hi-temp paint as described on the cans' instructions. Most Auto parts stores carry it. I don't know if they sell a high temp clear. I would use it if available.

drew

I do think I should save in this case basically because bake calipers go for the rest of the car life so unlikely I ll have a chance to remove them again unless I want to install 6 pot calipers. So that is why I want to do a proper job once and forever .

I think I ll take them to shop to repaint them cuz I m really bad at painting :slosh:
 
I do think I should save in this case basically because bake calipers go for the rest of the car life so unlikely I ll have a chance to remove them again unless I want to install 6 pot calipers. So that is why I want to do a proper job once and forever .

I think I ll take them to shop to repaint them cuz I m really bad at painting :slosh:

Blasting & painting calipers is a different story than spraying cars. It might be a better result at a paint shop than hoemeade - supposed it is done correctly using correct primer and paint. You sould take out the internals to save the dust caps during blasting, and plug all holes with blind plugs to avoid grit residues from the blasting inside. You must really ensure that the shop has understood what they are going to do.

My 2 cents..
:scoot2:
 
Trimming is easier. Not much needs to change. See the difference in the attached picture.

Replacing them is serious business. You have to pull and replace the bearings.

proxy.php
 

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