OWNER - michel

[michel]

Yesterday I returned from the millionairs fair at the RAI Amsterdam and shook of a W210 e55 AMG

[youtube]Qj_yXq0z88I[/youtube]

 

[michel]

next option has arrived, will put in next thursday

 

[michel]

maybe maybe we are gonna try to put a amg sound system in my car from a W211

Vingers crossed

 

[need2speed]

Fun video...keep 'em coming please

 

[michel]

Everything is build in to make the phone work properly and even handsfree <img src="images/smilies/banana2.gif" border="0" alt="" title="" smilieid="87" class="inlineimg">

The phone and radio are working good with the antenna sorry for the bad pics but its late over here now.

 

[Christian_K]

Awesome car! Love your Videos, eve the "older" ones at night in Holland are great!
It would be nice if you do something, so far no-one has done with a E60 at all - 0-250km/h onboard-video with almost empty fuel-tank on a german highway.
Or at least a 0-100km/h video if possible... I really would love to see this, no-one so far saw something like it.

Also, did you added the AMG camshafts? If not it was probably a good choice. As far as i remember Bernard Marijanovic (mb-evolution, head of germn W124-Forums), replaced the AMG-Camshafts on a customers E60AMG as he was rebuilding it and he boosted power to ~430 (DIN) HP and ~635NM(DIN) or 468lb/ft of Torque!
That should be tremendous compared to the stock 500E. And this was a car without even something changed on the exhaust-side. Imagine yours with your sport-metallic-catalyzers and 2-way till the End... That could be even a bit stronger.

 

[195910]

Awesome car! Love your Videos, eve the "older" ones at night in Holland are great!
It would be nice if you do something, so far no-one has done with a E60 at all - 0-250km/h onboard-video with almost empty fuel-tank on a german highway.
Or at least a 0-100km/h video if possible... I really would love to see this, no-one so far saw something like it.

Also, did you added the AMG camshafts? If not it was probably a good choice. As far as i remember Bernard Marijanovic (mb-evolution, head of germn W124-Forums), replaced the AMG-Camshafts on a customers E60AMG as he was rebuilding it and he boosted power to ~430 (DIN) HP and ~635NM(DIN) or 468lb/ft of Torque!
That should be tremendous compared to the stock 500E. And this was a car without even something changed on the exhaust-side. Imagine yours with your sport-metallic-catalyzers and 2-way till the End... That could be even a bit stronger.

Hi Christian,

Any more info on the camshafts Bernard used? manufacturer? or does he make them? will it work with other displacements (5.0 or 6.4)?

I think with headers,sport Kat, x-pipe instead of resonator and new back box it should make about 450-460 based on the numbers Bernard claims...Now Just to find a company willing to do the headers.

I had a look at the kleemann SS headers for the C63 M156 block, its not a true header design but has large power gains and is small size.

 

[Christian_K]

Hi Christian,

Any more info on the camshafts Bernard used? manufacturer? or does he make them? will it work with other displacements (5.0 or 6.4)?

I think with headers,sport Kat, x-pipe instead of resonator and new back box it should make about 450-460 based on the numbers Bernard claims...Now Just to find a company willing to do the headers.

I had a look at the kleemann SS headers for the C63 M156 block, its not a true header design but has large power gains and is small size.

No he never shared any information regarding what exactly he has done to that E60 AMG, even though people were asking. I think it was "our" assumption based on the pictures that lead to the conclusion that the camshafts had been replaced, as you could clearly see in the pictures as he was done with overhauling the E60, that there were brand-new totally clean camshafts in place.
And he also commented the post with a statement something like (free translated out of remembering): "A special ingredient/upgrade has been added to the engine and the car is now producing 43*HP and 63*NM".

Here is the picture from the dyno: Top is HP, Bottom is Torque:

But keep in mind that AMGs Cylinderheads intake/outtakes are polished and the whole intake is portmatched. So when Michel has not done this to his self-made E60 engine too, power-gain will be significantly less. Also when he has a LH with WOT he needs to reprogramm it to use the more air, as on full-throttle, toally fixed injection-values are used, probably not ready for usage with the more air incoming from the camshaft-change.

 

[gsxr]

No he never shared any information regarding what exactly he has done to that E60 AMG, even though people were asking.

I hate it when people are secretive about stupid things. Why can't he just tell us what the hell he did?

I think it was "our" assumption based on the pictures that lead to the conclusion that the camshafts had been replaced, as you could clearly see in the pictures as he was done with overhauling the E60, that there were brand-new totally clean camshafts in place.

I believe if you look at all the photos, you'll see the original cams were severely worn and that's why they were replaced. However I think they were replaced with new AMG E60 cams, not anything custom/special.

And he also commented the post with a statement something like (free translated out of remembering): "A special ingredient/upgrade has been added to the engine and the car is now producing 43*HP and 63*NM".

Might just be something along the lines of additional porting on the heads... hard to say though, there's nothing obvious in any of the photos. I archived all the pics on my website here btw - it's a lot to look at. I'd love to get an engine stand like that, but can't find any information on the manufacturer or model number. The original thread is at this link, but the photos seem to be missing...

 

[Christian_K]

Ok i did find his answer in the W140 Topic regarding the changes... how could i ever missed that... he said the following:

"Im Grunde genommen ist eigentlich nur noch der Rumpfmotor original AMG geblieben. Der Rest wie die 4 sehr scharfen Nockenwellen, mitsamt den passenden Ventilfedern, verstellbaren Nockenwellenrädern, anderes Steuergerät, 2 flutige Auspuffanlage, leichtere Hydros, Ansaugtrakt und weiter bearbeitete Ventilsitzringe stammen nicht mehr von AMG."

Free Translated:

"Basically only the "Base-Engine" remained original AMG. The Rest like the 4 very sharp camshafts with fitting valve-springs, adjustable camshaft gear-wheels, different ECU, 2-way Exhaust, lighter hydraulic lifters, Air intake and further reworked valve seats, are not AMG anymore"

 

[195910]

[
I hate it when people are secretive about stupid things. Why can't he just tell us what the hell he did?

I am willing to buy a set from him if he can show us what he did, and the power gains (before&after dyno).

 

[Christian_K]

I am willing to buy a set from him if he can show us what he did, and the power gains (before&after dyno).

The answer is one post above yours ;-)
Stock Power was probably around 400HP, as the E60s are known to have more power than the claimed 381HP.

 

[gsxr]

Ok i did find his answer in the W140 Topic regarding the changes... how could i ever missed that... he said the following:
"Basically only the "Base-Engine" remained original AMG. The Rest like the 4 very sharp camshafts with fitting valve-springs, adjustable camshaft gear-wheels, different ECU, 2-way Exhaust, lighter hydraulic lifters, Air intake and further reworked valve seats, are not AMG anymore"

OK - fantastic info - and I hereby retract my previous rant.

The next question is: where did he obtain those items, and where can we purchase them? Are they available from some vendor in Europe, or were they one-off custom pieces? Particularly the camshafts, lifters, springs and ECU. I wonder if the cam kit might be from Hagmann...?

I heard that RENNtech also used adjustable camshaft sprockets (gear-wheels), but without knowing what the adjustment values are ("x" degrees advanced or retarded), that doesn't help us much.

I love that power curve and want to get that under my hood - someday!!

 

[195910]

I was at the AutoSport Expo in Birmingham. I was asking the cam manufacturers about having camshaft set made for M156 engines.
A few British companies are willing to do the work, But they don't have prior experience with MB/AMG engines. Prices seem reasonable, they need a set of original cams first.

I also found an Italian company willing to make forged 100mm pistons for the M119 for 2K Euro ! but then came to an issue of how to get the cylinders and crank balancing done in Q8, whole engine has to be shipped to the UK of Italy for that.

BTW I am guessing its a MAHA dyno system Graph with crank HP correction software.

 

[195910]

The answer is one post above yours ;-)
Stock Power was probably around 400HP, as the E60s are known to have more power than the claimed 381HP.

I know, But we need him to show more

 

[Christian_K]

Hi,
well i don't know which brands he used, but i think the camshafts including springs and the lighter hydraulic lifters are probably from Brabus, as he has good connections to Brabus (He even drives many Brabus M119s and M120s in various W124, R129 and W140 cars he owns).
ECU might be changed by him on the dyno or probably from brabus either. Anyone remembers that Bernard was selling that M119 camshaft-Set in the 500Ecstasy.com Forums some years ago? IIRC they were with valve-springs and he said, as people were asking, that the ECU on normal (Non-Brabus) M119s has to be adjusted in order to take full advantage of the new camshafts. (Probably its the fixed value on WOT-Cars to use the more air at WOT?).

Anyway i will drop him a PM and ask him what exactly he has done. I'm sure he will giv us the Info.

 

[gsxr]

Christian, can you translate the dyno information from the photo below? I.e., what do these mean?

Prad
Pverl
Pnenn

 

[gsxr]

On a side note, after looking at the photos again, I can see the custom slotted cam sprockets. It appears that the intake cam is set several degrees retarded. The exhaust cam looks like it may be in the stock / normal position or perhaps just slightly different from stock. (??)

 

[gsxr]

Yet more information:

There was a change in the factory M119 hydraulic lifters (and valve springs). Early lifters were 82g, late lifters were 64g:

http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/MB%2 ... 5-2110.pdf

I believe this change happened with the 1992/1993 model year break, same time the camshafts changed; i.e. the 92 motors had the double valve springs with heavy lifters, while 93-up had single valve springs with lightweight lifters. (I'm not positive about the model year break, it could be in early '93 production... EPC says the actual change with the late cam / lifters / springs was as of engine # 119974-006123; however this FSM doc says it was as of MY93, see page 2, footnote 6).

After looking at the photos again, it's clear this IS NOT a 1994 E60 AMG engine. It is a 1992-vintage 6.0L, since he shows pictures of double valve springs, 8-rib serpentine belt, and pre-facelift headlights. The reduced weight lifters are just the late-style factory units. However it's not clear if he used aftermarket valve springs or not; they should be single valve springs for the lightweight lifters, but he shows photos of a broken (!!) double spring near the end of the thread.

 

[Christian_K]

Right, he says in the Topic he noticed the broken spring (and he also said luckyly they were double) as we was changing the camshafts and the new valve-springs. For tuning-camshafts on the M119 you always have to change the valve-springs for new fitting ones with the new camshafts.

On my totally revised engine i'm yet to complete, the pre-owner also changed the hydraulic lifters.. do you think mercedes just take new light one for all engine models independent of year?

Christian, can you translate the dyno information from the photo below? I.e., what do these mean?

Prad
Pverl
Pnenn

Prad is power at the wheels
Pverl is the loss of power (German Verlust) either from crank to wheels or this "break-power" which you measure on the dyno when letting the car roll-out
Pnenn is the german word "Nennleistung" or in english probably "rated power"

Be aware that the power displayed on his dyno is in KW/PS/HP (EWG). Normal german KW/PS is in DIN KW/PS, so its a bit more in DIN and less in EWG.

 

[gsxr]

The EPC indicates that the new, lighter lifter supercedes the older, heavier lifter... so it should be ok to install the new ones on an early/1992 engine with double springs.

Any news from Bernard on the special camshafts yet? Strange that the "custom" valve springs were still 2-piece instead of the newer 1-piece design, no?

 

[Christian_K]

The EPC indicates that the new, lighter lifter supercedes the older, heavier lifter... so it should be ok to install the new ones on an early/1992 engine with double springs.

Any news from Bernard on the special camshafts yet? Strange that the "custom" valve springs were still 2-piece instead of the newer 1-piece design, no?

I really wonder which ones are in my car... They really looking brand-new, just like the rest inside my cylinder-heads, but on my list of changes by the pre-owner there is no word about changed valve-springs. I hope the old ones, which are probably still in, will run with the new lifters *fingerscrossed*.
No news so far from Bernard. Answers usually take a week, as he is veeery busy as usually i've heard.

Here was his statement about the broken valve-springs:

hier noch Bild der gebrochenen äußeren Ventilfeder, die nach dem Ausbau der Ventile aus dem Kopf zu Tage kam. Zum Glück sind die Ventilfedern in doppelter Ausführung, sonst hätte das Ventil längst auf dem Kolbenboden aufgeschlagen

Eng:

here is a picture of the broken outer valve-sping, which got visible after removing the valves. Luckyly the valve-springs are double by design, otherwise the valve would already have touched the piston-bottom.

 

[michel]

I bought this Airfilterbox on ebay Spain, and a switch ASR off to build this option.

 

[500AMM]

I haven't done it before, but it's on my lengthy "to do" project list. Be careful which lock switch you buy... the correct one is p/n 202-820-40-10, which has a red LED indicator which I believe can still be used in place of the original alarm LED, while adding the lock/unlock function separately.

Dave,

I'm sure my Limited doesn't have any LED in the doorlock switch. Is it many choices on this switch? ...and what makes it to get them fit?
(I'm going to install one in my SuperMerc)

I'm also interested in the P/N on the antenna switch, if someone have that handy.

-arnt-

 

[gsxr]

Arnt,

The central lock switch with built-in red LED is p/n 202-820-40-10, and it uses pin bush housing 013-545-30-28. This is the one I have in my cars, but it's not wired & functional (yet). I believe the LED allows you to install it in the factory alarm LED position, so you have two functions in one location (alarm indicator, and central lock switch).


There are two other central lock switches that are the same size which will fit, but they are slightly different design:

124-821-50-51 has no LED, and does not snap-in to the pin bush housing. I think it uses pin bush housing 021-545-04-28, but I'm not positive. I'm also not sure if the white icon is on the top half or bottom half of the switch face.

140-820-63-10 also has no LED, but has an extra prong that snaps into the connector as a positive lock. The 140- number uses pin bush housing 021-545-04-28, and the white icon on the switch face is on the bottom half instead of the top half as shown in the photo.


Note that for the manual antenna switch to work, you need the early-style antenna....

 

[500AMM]

Thanks Dave, I got the understanding now, we were talking about two solutions here. I'm looking for the regular switch without LED, same as in my Limited. I can easily through the gear console panel and check the PNs.

As for the antenna, you mean the type from a 126 car, since the switch comes from that car? Just as Gerry mentioned in a previous post here.

Michel - sorry for hijacking your thread a bit. You are sharing great info about your car.

-arnt-

 

[500ESpain]

Deleted

Esteban

 

[Christian_K]

But lets do that in a new topic please, otherwise this will get a bit to confusing, finding all those awesome tips/advices in the various showoff-forum topics... ^^

 

[500AMM]

But lets do that in a new topic please, otherwise this will get a bit to confusing, finding all those awesome tips/advices in the various showoff-forum topics... ^^

Yes I agree, Christian.

I can put an other thread for this, and erase the content in my posts here. Hopefully will Dave and Esteban do that too.

-arnt-

 

[michel]

Put on new rear tires 275 40 17 for the next 20k

 

[michel]

Because the project of the wider back fenders and removing rust is finished a update in this section.

[youtube]o5-sY7iJcXk[/youtube]

Next project is in september, then we put 2 new outerrings on the back wheel of 4J (steenless steel no ALU) to make it 11J totall. The front outerrings will be restored and all 4 the wheels center polished.

 

[michel]

Found the time to make some pictures

 

[szvook]

Sick!

 

[bendover]

Wow! That looks awsome. Nice job!

 

[steve h]

That's really cool, I like the 4 exhaust pipes as well!

 

[michel]

I bought myself a new set of rims because mine are not so nice anymore

same rims but then polished 8.5J and 10J

 

[Jelmer]

I'd say those vented wiper panels would fit this car very nicely! (http://500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?1565-FS-vented-wiper-panels-for-W124-V8s)

 

[195910]

Hi Michel, You must do your AMG 3ps in High gloss process (Hochglanzverdichtet). This is the new polishing process in Germany that makes Alu wheels like mirror finish.

 

[michel]

I have seen them its like a mirror

top

 

[195910]

Yes, I hope to do a set of wheels with this technique. My BBS RC wheels come polished with small bearing, But this new system uses ceramic and makes a very reflective finish.

How much does it cost to have a set of wheels made polished with this technique? any Idea?

 

[500E]

All I can say is wow!

 

[michel]

Tomorrow these will be on the car for the exterior finish

 

[Jelmer]

That means we'll need updates pictures tomorrow, michel... Damn, those are shiny! How often do you need to / want to polish those?

 

[michel]

I will put in Wheelwax twice a year and then once a week wash with shampoo and polish with Belgom (my neighboug has a son who wants to earn some money to go to the disco)

 

[fudgitive]

Wonderful, and subtle job on the rear guards it looks like factory would have done it. Looking forward to seeing your next mod !

 

[michel]

Its raining so hard over here i have to take some pics in the garage

 

[michel]

These 2 days we are playing with our benzes of our team that runs the biggest Dutch forum www.mercedesforum.nl today the S55 kompressor, tomorrow with my E60 and probaly an E55 kompressor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvxustXLff8&feature=player_embedded#!

 

[michel]

Promised pica's

 

[michel]

We are restoring the wooden panels first results

 

[gerryvz]

Wow, what a difference! Looks great !! Keep the pics coming....