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1993 400e rescue

Flat side up. There should be a rubber grommet on the post they screw into. The feet on the air box slides between the two.
All I have is the threaded rubber buffer and the nut.

Like this.

Are you saying there is another rubber grommet I’m missing? All of this hardware is missing so I’m piecing it together

1709864934487.jpeg
IMG_0200.jpeg
 
:searchdammit:

 
I spoke too soon on the ac.
It held the charge for about 3 weeks. Today compressor quit engaging, below the pressure cut off.


Using my gauges I’m at about 140 on the high side.

I’ve searched with my UV light and see no obvious leaks.

Compressor, expansion valve, evap drains, Everything looks clean.

So what now?

I figure I need to take all the hoses apart, replace orings, replace compressor, replace my receiver drier.

Any other ideas? Where are the other common leak points aside from evap?
 
Just topped the ac up again today. Had lost about half its charge in 2/3 weeks. crawled under the car with my UV light.

Looked into the drain holes, looked all around compressor, condenser, etc. Can’t find any UV dye.

Also I checked that link about the high side port going bad. Cap screw’s off easily doesn’t seem to be leaking.


What in the world ?

I’m thinking I’m going to replace the compressor, replace the receiver drier & switches, and take all hoses apart and replace the rubber seals.

I just don’t know why I’m not seeing any evidence of UV dye.
 
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A 1993 500SEL showed up in the junkyard today. I was already off work today and was the first one there.

I got a big haul of stuff.

IMG_0371.jpegIMG_0372.jpegIMG_0387.jpeg


Unfortunately it was an asr car so i didn't take the rear end.

Also I tried for hours to remove the original metal cam oilers but was unable to. Each and every one broke the metal tips off, even when using extreme care and delicate prying to remove. I gave up after trying one side. Is this normal?? what in the hell? Engine did have 200k+ miles and was pretty carboned up.

IMG_0392.jpegIMG_0389.jpeg


Overall I've never been deep into a w140, all I can say is WOW. I love the heavy feel of the build quality but these things are damn complicated. I want one but I can't imagine trying to restore one of these and keep everything working. The engine isn't the problem, its everything else. Compared to the W124 V8's its night and day level of complication.

Somewhat stupid example but just look at the tail light bulb housing. W124 vs W140.

1712258139086.png

IMG_0377.jpeg
 
A 1993 500SEL showed up in the junkyard today. I was already off work today and was the first one there.

I got a big haul of stuff.
SCORE!! :wootrock:



Unfortunately it was an asr car so i didn't take the rear end.
The 140 chassis with 5.0L engine use a different rear end than the 4.2L cars, you wouldn't want that anyway.



Also I tried for hours to remove the original metal cam oilers but was unable to. Each and every one broke the metal tips off, even when using extreme care and delicate prying to remove. I gave up after trying one side. Is this normal?? what in the hell? Engine did have 200k+ miles and was pretty carboned up.
The cam bearing caps lock the tubes in place. You must remove the cam bearing caps first, 1-2 at a time... then carefully pry out the oil tube, then re-install those cam bearing caps, then move on to the next ones. Repeat.




Overall I've never been deep into a w140, all I can say is WOW. I love the heavy feel of the build quality but these things are damn complicated. I want one but I can't imagine trying to restore one of these and keep everything working. The engine isn't the problem, its everything else. Compared to the W124 V8's its night and day level of complication.

Somewhat stupid example but just look at the tail light bulb housing. W124 vs W140.
The 140 was in-famous for being the pinnacle of technical complexity. Rumor has it the 140 went so over budget, it was largely responsible for the bean counters sending the engineers off to solitary confinement, and cost-cutting ramped up dramatically for chassis developed afterwards (think 210, 203/208, 220, 230). Could also be urban legend.

:klink:
 
SCORE!! :wootrock:




The 140 chassis with 5.0L engine use a different rear end than the 4.2L cars, you wouldn't want that anyway.




The cam bearing caps lock the tubes in place. You must remove the cam bearing caps first, 1-2 at a time... then carefully pry out the oil tube, then re-install those cam bearing caps, then move on to the next ones. Repeat.





The 140 was in-famous for being the pinnacle of technical complexity. Rumor has it the 140 went so over budget, it was largely responsible for the bean counters sending the engineers off to solitary confinement, and cost-cutting ramped up dramatically for chassis developed afterwards (think 210, 203/208, 220, 230). Could also be urban legend.

:klink:
omfg thats embarrassing about the cam baring caps. I thought it was just a friction fit with the rubber oring
 
I am on the hunt for a 2.65 differential. I found a 1991 500SL not too far away.

I looked up the VIN and it appears that this is a NON ASR car? This is good, my 400e is non asr.


This should bolt in right? What am I missing?
Yeah, it looks like that is a direct bolt in. 2.65 gears will be a nice improvement. I'm running 3.06 gears in mine. Huge difference, but if you were going to run 80+ on the freeway much it might be a bit buzzy. 2.82 is also an option. Just depends how you intend to use the car.
 
Yeah, it looks like that is a direct bolt in. 2.65 gears will be a nice improvement. I'm running 3.06 gears in mine. Huge difference, but if you were going to run 80+ on the freeway much it might be a bit buzzy. 2.82 is also an option. Just depends how you intend to use the car.
this is a daily driver and i'd like to keep a good balance of fuel economy. I do intend to use it on long road trips so I'm between the 2.65 and 2.82. I also plan to keep the stock wheels and I wonder if the tires will constantly break loose with the 2.82 or higher (and no asr).
 
this is a daily driver and i'd like to keep a good balance of fuel economy. I do intend to use it on long road trips so I'm between the 2.65 and 2.82. I also plan to keep the stock wheels and I wonder if the tires will constantly break loose with the 2.82 or higher (and no asr).
Mine doesn't break traction unless I want it to or if the road is especially slick. Even so, if fuel economy is a concern, 2.65 will be a great choice.
 
I am on the hunt for a 2.65 differential. I found a 1991 500SL not too far away.

I looked up the VIN and it appears that this is a NON ASR car? This is good, my 400e is non asr.

This should bolt in right? What am I missing?
Yep, 100% mechanical bolt-in, but you may need to use the W124 ASR speed sensors... the wires are several inches longer. I don't know if the R129 wires will reach or not. EDIT: That is for ASR... not sure about the single sensor wire length on non-ASR.


Then you need a YellowBox or similar speedo conversion behind the cluster. I prefer Yellr because it's small enough to fit behind the cluster and is a simple 4-wire connection. Must be for inductive sensors NOT for Hall sensors.
 
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Yep, 100% mechanical bolt-in, but you may need to use the W124 ASR speed sensors... the wires are several inches longer. I don't know if the R129 wires will reach or not. Then you need a YellowBox or similar speedo conversion behind the cluster. I prefer Yellr because it's small enough to fit behind the cluster and is a simple 4-wire connection. Must be for inductive sensors NOT for Hall sensors.
My 400e is non asr, based on the vin search this 500sl should be non asr as well
 
Yep, 100% mechanical bolt-in, but you may need to use the W124 ASR speed sensors... the wires are several inches longer. I don't know if the R129 wires will reach or not. Then you need a YellowBox or similar speedo conversion behind the cluster. I prefer Yellr because it's small enough to fit behind the cluster and is a simple 4-wire connection. Must be for inductive sensors NOT for Hall sensors.
I'm sure Dave meant ABS pinion speed sensor, but he's right, the wire may be a different length.
One word of advice there. Get a new speed sensor O ring from MB when you do the job. It's not a common size, and if you don't replace it you'll likely have a leak. If you install one that's a bit too big, you may have problems with the sensor air gap causing the ABS to act up.

I had both problems until I installed the correct new o ring.
 
I'm sure Dave meant ABS pinion speed sensor, but he's right, the wire may be a different length.
YES! Sorry... I'm so used to ASR with the E500E, I forget about the non-ASR models. Check the single ABS sensor wire length on non-ASR. Should be easy to swap if needed.


One word of advice there. Get a new speed sensor O ring from MB when you do the job. It's not a common size, and if you don't replace it you'll likely have a leak. If you install one that's a bit too big, you may have problems with the sensor air gap causing the ABS to act up.

I had both problems until I installed the correct new o ring.
Note there is a different size O-ring for metal-body sensors, vs plastic body. There is an EPC error where the metal-body O-ring is not shown for the 036 chassis. I forget if the 034 EPC shows both. You must remove the sensor to see which type it is.
 
I’ve reached out to yellow box, it looks like they offer a custom plug n play harness for some models. Do you all just splice it in? I hate to cut factory wiring but I will if I need to. Going to go ahead and get one on order
 
I’ve reached out to yellow box, it looks like they offer a custom plug n play harness for some models. Do you all just splice it in? I hate to cut factory wiring but I will if I need to. Going to go ahead and get one on order
Yes, it has to be spliced in. One thing I've done when I need to splice a wire is to go to the nearest connector, unpin it, and de-solder the pins that need the splice, then use the solder joint at the pin as the splice point. If you're concerned about being able to return it to stock, this is a good option. Another possibility would be to create your own breakout harness if you can find the plastic connectors and pins needed to do so.

I did just cut and splice my harness to install the YellowBox though.
 
I’ve reached out to yellow box, it looks like they offer a custom plug n play harness for some models. Do you all just splice it in? I hate to cut factory wiring but I will if I need to. Going to go ahead and get one on order
I only had to cut 1 wire behind the cluster and splice each end into the Yellr... that's the source signal, so it becomes the input to Yellr, then there's a modified output back to the speedo.

The other 2 wires are switched (+) and (-) power supply which can be sourced with vampire-style taps, without cutting anything.

:shocking:
 
The other 2 wires are switched (+) and (-) power supply which can be sourced with vampire-style taps, without cutting anything.
Vampire taps are a most evil invention. I hate them.

Easy to use for sure, but down the road when you have intermittent electrical issues, odds are good the vampire taps are to blame. I've seen a ton of cases where vampire taps have become loose or corroded and caused all kinds of problems.

That said, it is an option if you don't want to go a more permanent or labor-intesive route.
 
Vampire taps are a most evil invention. I hate them.

Easy to use for sure, but down the road when you have intermittent electrical issues, odds are good the vampire taps are to blame. I've seen a ton of cases where vampire taps have become loose or corroded and caused all kinds of problems.
Totally agree... I should have clarified, I meant using the good stuff like dreaming.haze shows in post #226. :doof:



I'd recommend some Posi-taps for this job. Better than the vampire clips by far and no cutting of the factory harness for the spice.

Yes! Use those.

:klink:
 
I’m assuming vampire clips are what the industry calls Scotch Locks? If so they give me PTSD whenever I’m diagnosing a circuit. Generally very unreliable. Funny story my Ford Powerstroke failed to fire up one cold winter morning a couple years ago. Diagnosed the communication wire between the glow plug module and the ECU was compromised. I didn’t have to time to cut into the harness and I had a couple “vampire clips” in my junk drawer. I made a quick harness overlay so I could drive the truck. 2 years later I finally got around to fixing my own junk. I always kept that thought in the back of my head if the truck ever failed to start it would be those connections. I did find the fault in the harness. Looked like a drop of battery acid got in the harness and burned through the wire insulation or more likely there was a pinhole in the insulation where the acid could attack the copper.
 
Somewhat stupid example but just look at the tail light bulb housing. W124 vs W140.

View attachment 187575

View attachment 187576

Just FYI - the rear bulb housing for Euro W124s are equally complicated. The difference is in the design. The w140 and the euro w124 bulb housing uses die cut flat metal tracks for both positive AND negative connection for each bulb. The US w124 housing uses a central ground “bus” with positive wires for each bulb hidden under the face of the bus. The design is probably cheaper to make.
 
Just FYI - the rear bulb housing for Euro W124s are equally complicated. The difference is in the design. The w140 and the euro w124 bulb housing uses die cut flat metal tracks for both positive AND negative connection for each bulb. The US w124 housing uses a central ground “bus” with positive wires for each bulb hidden under the face of the bus. The design is probably cheaper to make.
Very interesting I’d love to know why they differ? That makes no sense
 
So I have developed a loud popping noise when I turn my steering wheel to the left. I can see the “popping” in the left wheel. It does not inspire confidence.


I had someone turn the steering wheel while I looked at my spring perches under the hood. They are cracked and I can see the rubber cracks flexing a fair bit as the wheel is turned left and right. Not sure how much flex is normal??

Boots on my LCA’s are split and appear to have been for some time now.

I have 140k miles.

So obviously I need to do some suspension work.

What I really want to do I buy some brand new LCA’s and rebuild the front end but I can’t buy them anymore.

I’ve read all the threads on this website and it doesn’t seem like I have a good option.

what should I do here? Take the old lca’s off and see if they can be re-booted?

Gamble with the TRW or other aftermarket?

Anybody have a set of new genuine LCA’s they want to sell ? Send me a DM

I’ve parked the car and am a little scared to continue driving it with the current situation.
 
I’ve also heard I can buy the old style LCA’s with removable ball joints and shave the lca down to clear the brakes??
 
See if you can pinpoint the source of the popping noise. This isn't good, I wouldn't drive it until you figure out what's going on there.

You'll need to take the LCA's off and evaluate the condition of the ball joint. If it's tight with zero play, and there's no evidence of dirt / moisture / corrosion... I'd gamble on adding fresh grease and installing new boots. (This assumes the popping noise is NOT from the ball joint, btw.)

If there is play in the joint, you'll have to replace the LCA. Ideally you locate a pair of good used late LCA's with tight joints, re-grease / reboot etc. The rubber bushings probably will need to be replaced as well. OE is preferable but not cheap. The aftermarket Lemforder bushings might be cromulent, on a budget I'd give those a try. See if FCP states COO... possibly Turkey or Brazil these days.

:seesaw:
 
See if you can pinpoint the source of the popping noise. This isn't good, I wouldn't drive it until you figure out what's going on there.

You'll need to take the LCA's off and evaluate the condition of the ball joint. If it's tight with zero play, and there's no evidence of dirt / moisture / corrosion... I'd gamble on adding fresh grease and installing new boots. (This assumes the popping noise is NOT from the ball joint, btw.)

If there is play in the joint, you'll have to replace the LCA. Ideally you locate a pair of good used late LCA's with tight joints, re-grease / reboot etc.
Are there actual reported recent failures of the TRW ball joints? How many? Most peach parts posts on this are from back in 2013. That is 11 years ago.

GSXR you seem to have done the most research here. I have read most of your postings.

I realize the TRW boot is crap. I have no problem buying genuine MB boots and installing on the new TRW arms.

Thoughts?
 
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The TRW LCA appeared to be a repackaged Febi. It does not have the TRW ball joint like OE/Genuine. I don't know if there have been reports specifically of TRW joints failing. If you do gamble on TRW, definitely replace the boot with OE and add grease to the joint. I'd still prefer to rebuild old/good OE LCA's instead.

First, you should figure out the source of the popping noise. If your existing LCA's have good ball joints, restoring those LCA's would be my first choice. If your existing joints are bad, then you're forced to buy something else (either new or used).

:tumble:
 
Ok so I got around to doing some suspension diagnosis.

When pulling on top and bottom of tire, ball joints seem fine, I don’t see any noticeable play in the joint.
IMG_0819.jpeg

There seems to be a very tiny bit of play that feels like it is the wheel bearing? Between brake rotor and hub. Again very minor play.


Drag link ball joints are split and very loose, all other ball joints look good and intact.


Strut mounts are cracked and not in good shape. I suppose they could fail catastrophically? Any reports of this?

IMG_0825.jpeg
IMG_0821.jpegIMG_0820.jpeg


Do I need a spring compressor to replace the strut mounts?

If that is the case, it seems like I may as well remove and rebuild the lca with new bushings, boot etc…

Where to stop is always the question…

Advice?
 
Strut mounts look tired but I've seen worse. New ones would be a good idea. Spring compressor not required for strut mount replacement, but recommended for safety... be really careful if doing this without a compressor. If the foam stop buffer on the strut shaft is not in good condition (or, the accordion dust boot) make sure to replace them while the strut is disconnected from the mount. OE only for the buffer/boot.

Bigger issue is the ball joint boot. You can repair/replace that without removing the LCA from the car, probably need to remove the knuckle+strut to make room to work. And, I'd chain the spring to the LCA if you aren't using a compressor. If you don't yet own a compressor, this might be a good excuse to buy one.

:spend:
 
I replaced my front lower control arms recently and I would highly recommend replacing the whole arm (versus just the ball joint) if that is possible. For my 300D, you can find the parts for each side at FCP Euro at a reasonable price (Lemforder; MB parts are NLA).

You can remove the LCA and buy the MB parts individually if you have the tools to remove/install... but unless you've done that before, I would advise against it. You can check out my YouTube channel and I have some videos about how to remove the bushings - it's definitely not fun. I then messed up putting new ones in. After I resolved, there is a video follow up about that on my channel (including a link to @gsxr's bushing alignment pictures). I ended up having the local dealership put the parts in for me and they charged me 1 hour labor. I kept this rebuilt set as a spare while I use the Lemforder ones which have been good.
 
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Unfortunately the 400E uses the "late" style LCA with non-replaceable ball joints... AND, there are no good aftermarket replacements available. Lemforder does not make the late LCA, only the early style. This is why, if the late ball joints are still tight, it's worth refreshing the existing late LCA's. New aftermarket ball joints may have a shorter lifespan than the old OE ball joints!

:runexe:
 
Unfortunately the 400E uses the "late" style LCA with non-replaceable ball joints... AND, there are no good aftermarket replacements available. Lemforder does not make the late LCA, only the early style. This is why, if the late ball joints are still tight, it's worth refreshing the existing late LCA's. New aftermarket ball joints may have a shorter lifespan than the old OE ball joints!
Dang that's crazy - is it the same with the E500E? (ball joint not replaceable) Good to learn about this

Sounds like (from above) there is a rebuild kit for the ball joint. Basically new boot / clip, where you can pack the grease.
 
Dang that's crazy - is it the same with the E500E? (ball joint not replaceable)
Yes and no. Early 500E's had smaller (300x28mm) front brakes with "early" LCA's and replaceable ball joints. This was through most of 1993 USA model year production.

Late 500E's (late 1993 USA model year production, and all 1994 E500 / facelift cars) received larger brakes (320x30mm) with the "late" LCA's needed to clear the larger rotors, not because of the 2mm extra thickness, but due to the different offset of the friction surface vs hub/mounting surface (about 6mm or so).

Oddly, all years of 400E production (with either 295x22, or 294x25) front brakes required the "late" LCA's due to the different offset.


Sounds like (from above) there is a rebuild kit for the ball joint. Basically new boot / clip, where you can pack the grease.
Yes - only a replacement boot kit is available. If the joint is tight and no water or dirt has entered, you can wipe it clean, add some fresh grease, and reboot it. I have several late LCA's with over 200kmi where the ball joint is still tight. This is sort of odd, as the replaceable ball joints don't often last that long. I don't understand the difference in design that allows the late style to have a longer lifespan.

:brudda:
 
Just read through the whole thread and wanted to give you kudos, @natejgreene9871! Your car is beautiful and wow. Love the dedication to making things right. I mean - you started your adventure with having to drill the steering lock 😂 What a way to kick things off!

The strut mounts are a piece of cake. As shared, you don't need a spring compressor - but if you have some budget, you might look at the Gedore unit that superceded the old Klann Tools one. I ordered a knockoff spring compressor from eBay and ended up throwing it in the garbage, it was just dangerous. I found a used Miller / Klann Tools set on eBay and it was worth every cent.

Back to strut mounts... I put a bottle jack under the control arm and replaced my shocks / strut mounts that way. Hopefully, the 400E isn't too much different than what I went through. It took me about an hour of actual work time to do both sides.

I've had multiple service advisors (before I could turn a wrench) share horror stories about the "strut mount failing and the spring popping the hood open". The spring isn't even involved (I was an idiot for listening to them), it's just the shock/strut 😂 I guess it could eventually break that rubber and go through. You'd have to be driving off a massive ledge though, IMO.
 
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Just read through the whole thread and wanted to give you kudos, @natejgreene9871! Your car is beautiful and wow. Love the dedication to making things right. I mean - you started your adventure with having to drill the steering lock 😂 What a way to kick things off!

The strut mounts are a piece of cake. As shared, you don't need a spring compressor - but if you have some budget, you might look at the Gedore unit that superceded the old Klann Tools one. I ordered a knockoff spring compressor from eBay and ended up throwing it in the garbage, it was just dangerous. I found a used Miller / Klann Tools set on eBay and it was worth every cent.

Back to strut mounts... I put a bottle jack under the control arm and replaced my shocks / strut mounts that way. Hopefully, the 400E isn't too much different than what I went through. It took me about an hour of actual work time to do both sides.

I've had multiple service advisors (before I could turn a wrench) share horror stories about the "strut mount failing and the spring popping the hood open". The spring isn't even involved (I was an idiot for listening to them), it's just the shock/strut 😂 I guess it could eventually break that rubber and go through. You'd have to be driving off a massive ledge though, IMO.
Holy crap the Gedore and klann compressors are over $1,000 from what I can tell! I’m not dropping that kind of money.

Should I get a spring compressor where the shaft goes through the center of the spring? Or one where the tightening shaft is on the outside of spring with plates sticking out?
 
Holy crap the Gedore and klann compressors are over $1,000 from what I can tell! I’m not dropping that kind of money.
Yup. They are NOT cheap. I've got a used one somewhere that I need to list for sale for about half that much, but that's still a lot more than the $100 specials from China.


Should I get a spring compressor where the shaft goes through the center of the spring? Or one where the tightening shaft is on the outside of spring with plates sticking out?
You MUST get the type that goes through the center of the spring. The type that connects to the outside of the spring will not work well, if at all.

Also make sure the compressor design has a solid plate / donut with a hole in the center, NOT a plate with a slot... the latter can pop out while under tension. Click here, see the video in post #1, additional comments in post #5.

:duck:
 
Whenever I see that it sends chills down my back. I think I remember telling the forum I got hit by the compressor when the spring shot out. Knocked the wind out of me. Definitely operator error on my part. Just because the boss tells you to do it anyway after you tell him the shoe doesn’t fit the spring diameter doesn’t mean you blindly follow an order.

Incidentally I just changed a set of front springs on a 89 W124. Having the luxury of a 2 post lift and a floor jack you can do it safely if you stand at the lift controls and slowly lower the car. I just loosened both the LCA bolts so it swings freely. Remove the pinch bolt for the ball joint while supporting with a floor jack and then slowly raise the car with the lift. To reverse the process start the spring in the upper pocket making sure it’s clocked correctly. Slowly raise the LCA with the floor jack until the spring is in the lower perch and then lower the lift.
 
sfarooqa


No idea on reputation, but quality seems pretty decent.
Not sure if the verdict is out of SFarroqa's ETA rebuilding service, but I saw this and decided to put this here:

1717431638060.png

1717431683342.png
 
This is why I hate messing with springs. Maybe someone here can explain what I’m doing wrong.

Basically, the spring is elbow macaroni shaped and you are trying to put a straight spring compressor through it. It always jams up in the small lower control arm hole to where I can’t even get a socket on it.

IMG_0962.jpeg
The bottom part of compressor with the nut, do I want this nut that I tighten all the way through the LCA hole (up inside the spring)? Or not?

IMG_0961.jpeg

Or should the tightening nut protrude out the bottom of the LCA when I am tightening it?

Again the spring is not straight, so when you start cranking the compressor up it wants to pull the whole compressor shaft up inside the spring and jutt off to the side and jam up.

I don’t know if this makes sense but I had the same issue with my 450sl and it drove me mad.

Aside from using a Chinese spring compressor what am I doing wrong?
 
Nate try to use your floor jack directly under the ball joint and unload the spring compressor a little. It might bring the compressor back into alignment with the hole. Slow and easy!
Great suggestion!!!!

This is why I hate messing with springs. Maybe someone here can explain what I’m doing wrong.

Basically, the spring is elbow macaroni shaped and you are trying to put a straight spring compressor through it. It always jams up in the small lower control arm hole to where I can’t even get a socket on it.

View attachment 192826
I remember having this exact same problem before with @RicardoD when replacing shocks. This is what we did to avoid getting the tool rod thing jammed in the hole in the lower control arm.

IMG_0085.jpeg IMG_0086.jpeg
 
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