SOLD 1993 500E, 36kmi, Pearl Black/Black, BaT auction (Bluffton, SC)

[audemars]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Checked out this 500E again, while looking at a Porsche I'm thinking of buying.
Looking at the nit picky pictures posted a couple of weeks ago, doesn't change the fact that this is the cleanest, lowest mileage, completely unmolested 500E in the market.
I also have seen this car at several Porsche shows in Miami and you will not find one nicer unless there's another one that was stashed away with bricks of cash and a quarter panel that was repainted because the white Testarossa kept dinging it
In my opinion a quarter panel repaint is not a big deal considering this car is still a cherry.

 

[maw1124]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Um... No.

http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10818

maw

 

[Melville]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Checked out this 500E again, while looking at a Porsche I'm thinking of buying.
Looking at the nit picky pictures posted a couple of weeks ago, doesn't change the fact that this is the cleanest, lowest mileage, completely unmolested 500E in the market.
I also have seen this car at several Porsche shows in Miami and you will not find one nicer unless there's another one that was stashed away with bricks of cash and a quarter panel that was repainted because the white Testarossa kept dinging it
In my opinion a quarter panel repaint is not a big deal considering this car is still a cherry.

how are pictures of rust and accident repair "nit picky"?

 

[jhodg5ck]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Checked out this 500E again, while looking at a Porsche I'm thinking of buying.
Looking at the nit picky pictures posted a couple of weeks ago, doesn't change the fact that this is the cleanest, lowest mileage, completely unmolested 500E in the market.
I also have seen this car at several Porsche shows in Miami and you will not find one nicer unless there's another one that was stashed away with bricks of cash and a quarter panel that was repainted because the white Testarossa kept dinging it
In my opinion a quarter panel repaint is not a big deal considering this car is still a cherry.

Nit picky? We call it attention to detail Sir.

I knew that car was UN-acceptable in abut 60 seconds. If you should ever like to see what a Proper, Clean and Right 500E is I welcome you to visit us here at the shop.

Should you Really care to understand I'll do my utmost to demonstrate and learn your eyes so that you won't get taken by misrepresented cars.



I'll be adding all 50+ photos that I took while inspecting the car here later today...that was going to be a might bit difficult on mobile! Will be sure to give a description on each for those that might not notice the defect and that which it represents.

 

[maw1124]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Some of us are driving cars that are better than this one, even if they are not lower mileage or in the market. But either way, the Fullerton car is both lower mileage and in the market, and it's a FAR superior car. Not even close, actually.

maw

 

[jhodg5ck]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)


Rust blowing through paint "work" on RR qtr panel/under decklid


Malformed spring cup/sheet metal and improperly installed spring shim.


Another shot of rust poking through paint on panel under decklid.


Paint Run on bumper. Signs of a True artisan.



Weeping transmission cooler line, but also residue from leaking tandem pump.


Another view of the RR spring perch and associated metal/bracketry showing signs of requiring re-shaping.


Dust shield took such a hit that it required re-shaping to fit right-ish.


Excess seam sealer hiding lord knows what, replete with more rust creeping out from Beneath.



A little left over masking tape JIC you had any doubts she was @ a body shop...


New SLS ram/shock in the RR. Why you would need a new one on a 30K mile car is beyond me unless it was Damaged in the accident.


Tires, every one on the car is an Old Pilot Sport AS and as they do, all the inner edges are Shot.





leaky tandem pump.


Rust is blowing through from more of these "repairs"...remember, rust never sleeps.


RR door striker has been moved Outward, required when the sheet metal has been Pushed around...


Buffing/heavy cutting that was never finished...my first sign that something was Amiss.



more to follow, but have some stuff I need to get on here in the shop. Back later!

 

[maw1124]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

I'm not criticizing the car, certainly. It is what it is, 25 years old, increasingly old or unavailable parts and all. I most certainly am, however, criticizing any and all attempts to characterize it as the best available, etc., etc. It's not deserving of any puffery (IMO), so I criticize and refute any and all attempts at puffery.

maw

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery

And by the way, jhodg5ck's most recent post shows the car for what it is, 25 years old, shoddy repair work, rusted underbelly and all.

 

[audemars]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

I completely agree with the statement that a car that is 23 years old is not going to be perfect and not even the 500E that I saw displayed at the Porsche Museum was perfect on the outside.
High mileage and molested 500E's can be found all day long, but the low milers, good luck finding one.
Each to his own as to what each one is looking for. I personaly pay extra for low miles. Others pay for other things. But online criticism is one thing I don't do if I'm not in the market to buy the car. That is something I discuss personally with the seller.
If I had not already gone through the 500E stage, I personally would have no problem paying between $45k and 50k for this car.

 

[jhodg5ck]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

i know or reckon that the criticism here has its background in the high asking price....but hey...its a 25 year old car..its not new anymore..!?!
i just felt the need to criticise all the criticism...even though i do understand WHY its beeing "criticised"

That's never an excuse IMHO... My fathers shop taught me that.
If you are going to market a car as perfect, or very nearly perfect/finest in the land it damn well better be!

jono

 

[jhodg5ck]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)



PDR work/drilled holes to access the panel and plugged the hole. No bueno.



Poorly painted/fitted RR C pillar trim.


C pillar trim and gas flap alignment incorrect.



This was one my favs...the whole trunk latch mechanism is covered in epoxy primer. Sloppily covered at that. I didn't get around to pulling the trim to see All that was underneath but one can imagine.



previously shown, but excess/sloppy seam sealer hiding poor fitment no doubt. Improperly prepped as is made evident by the rust creeping through in the Inner and outer panels.



Paint line anyone?


If this is a 50K car I know of 5 036's off the top of my head that are Easy 75K$ plus cars value wise.

If this car had a 25K$ price tag on it I'd say we're getting to the realm of correct. To strip this all down/repair and repaint/correct all the Improper repairs you're looking at a Serious outlay of monies.

Jono

 

[lowman]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

That's never an excuse IMHO... My fathers shop taught me that.
If you are going to market a car as perfect, or very nearly perfect/finest in the land it damn well better be!

jono

i agree on that without a doubt...
i just didnt see the need to bother pointing it out to the extent it was.i mean..let the potential buyer make the desicion on what important to them...its all relative.but like i said..yes..the asking price is steep compared to "the state"its obviously is in...or for "any" car for that matter.
but who cares really.?

 

[jhodg5ck]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

I do have an un-natural attachment to these cars...and Mercedes as a whole. They are an exceedingly Large part of my life and have been for the last 20 years.

I also take particular umbrage with sellers who mis-represent cars.
Over the years I have gone to look at/have had a plethora of Merc's in front of me for inspection that are so Grossly mis-represented that I have lost my patience with Most sellers...

If it's something minor, something that most anyone could have Readily overlooked..no real harm or foul... but when the damage is very Real, Visible and Costly to rectify, no excuse IMHO.

Jono

 

[ZombieBranz]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

lol I won't criticize a car at all but I'll be sure post some super glowing remarks on the car and put a value I would pay for it, That could clearly influence a buyer on this site.

Then I'll call out people for being negative when they post clear and reasonable proof that refutes said posts. uhhh ok seems legit. Dude you're posts don't seem unbiased at all.

 

[lowman]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

lol I won't criticize a car at all but I'll be sure post some super glowing remarks on the car and put a value I would pay for it, That could clearly influence a buyer on this site.

Then I'll call out people for being negative when they post clear and reasonable proof that refutes said posts. uhhh ok seems legit. Dude you're posts don't seem unbiased at all.

are you talking to me?or ?

 

[lowman]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

I do have an un-natural attachment to these cars...and Mercedes as a whole. They are an exceedingly Large part of my life and have been for the last 20 years.

I also take particular umbrage with sellers who mis-represent cars.
Over the years I have gone to look at/have had a plethora of Merc's in front of me for inspection that are so Grossly mis-represented that I have lost my patience with Most sellers...

If it's something minor, something that most anyone could have Readily overlooked..no real harm or foul... but when the damage is very Real, Visible and Costly to rectify, no excuse IMHO.

Jono

Agreed.i dont think it shines through what im trying to say..but doesnt matter really

 

[ZombieBranz]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

are you talking to me?or ?

no, was speaking to audemars.

 

[sheward]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

This is the for sale section of the forum, where potential buyers come quite regularly for insight into 036 cars offered for sale. Criticism is necessary in order to educate and assist buyers and I applaud the added information. There is no fault in honest criticism by knowledgeable owners. It should be expected. You are in fact offering positive opinion on line although you are not in the market to buy. I see no difference. A simple statement by the seller that the car has had paintwork or there are some rust issues may have saved someone considerable time and expense. As for the price, I agree that is subjective and folks here have only offered opinions. If you take the time to read through the past listings you will find considerably better deals that resulted in sales as recently as the past couple of years. For the record, I put a premium on low mileage cars as well however it is small, especially with 036 cars.

edit: And now I see additional pictures, evidence of an even greater extent of bad repair. The car is badly misrepresented.

drew

 

[audemars]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

In response to the high asking price it's all a matter of one's income and perspective. For some $50k is a lot of money if a car is not completely 100% perfect as if it would have been rolled off the 959 assembly line yesterday (unrealistic). For others, $50k makes complete sense if you are able to get ahold of a clean 500E with low miles, which this 500E is.
I also know about cars and I have all kinds of rare German cars in my collection and I've also seen a lot of 500E's. This one is very nice even with the real panel repair/repaint, if that is truly the case.

 

[lowman]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

You are in fact offering positive opinion on line although you are not in the market to buy. I see no difference.

drew

the difference is that it is "positive".
and even not really "positive"..im trying to get across a neutral attitude to the car which i do know nothing about...appart from what has been presented here.
and you are misinterpeting what im trying to say.im trying to counter balance ALL the negative talk about the car.and ive repetedly said that i agree with the "asking price compared to the state that the car seems to be in.And i also did NOT pin point ANY spesific comment..i was just OVERWHELMED by the overall negativitity in the thread.In the end..to me..it doesnt matter that much what state the car is in..or what price it is.so for my part.."discussion" is over dont see the need in pointing it out what i mean.if people dont see what i mean..well..thats allright

 

[Melville]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

the difference is that it is "positive".
and even not really "positive"..im trying to get across a neutral attitude to the car which i do know nothing about...appart from what has been presented here.
and you are misinterpeting what im trying to say.im trying to counter balance ALL the negative talk about the car.and ive repetedly said that i agree with the "asking price compared to the state that the car seems to be in.And i also did NOT pin point ANY spesific comment..i was just OVERWHELMED by the overall negativitity in the thread.In the end..to me..it doesnt matter that much what state the car is in..or what price it is.so for my part.."discussion" is over dont see the need in pointing it out what i mean.if people dont see what i mean..well..thats allright

Lowman, I am pretty sure that Drew is criticizing audemars' posts, not yours. I think your general point is that there is sometimes a tendency to emphasize the negative points but not really pay as much attention to the positive points. That's a reasonable view point even if some people don't agree with it. Reasonable people can disagree on that question. Audemars on the other hand seems to be unreasonably praising the condition of the car and disregarding legitimate and fact-based criticisms. He's now even come to the point of implying the criticisms are coming because people don't have as much money as he does.

 

[lowman]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Lowman, I am pretty sure that Drew is criticizing audemars' posts, not yours. I think your general point is that there is sometimes a tendency to emphasize the negative points but not really pay as much attention to the positive points. That's a reasonable view point even if some people don't agree with it. Reasonable people can disagree on that question. Audemars on the other hand seems to be unreasonably praising the condition of the car and disregarding legitimate and fact-based criticisms. He's now even come to the point of implying the criticisms are coming because people don't have as much money as he does.

heh
oh...

 

[gsxr]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Sale pending

Website no longer states "sale pending".

 

[Sam SL]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

@Jhodg5ck, Thanks so much for your unsolicited PPI. It saves me a lot of time. This is why I prefer to buy direct from an enthusiast. I think it is wrong to misrepresent a car or hype up its condition and I find dealers do that more often than not.

 

[sheward]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Lowman, I am pretty sure that Drew is criticizing audemars' posts, not yours. I think your general point is that there is sometimes a tendency to emphasize the negative points but not really pay as much attention to the positive points. That's a reasonable view point even if some people don't agree with it. Reasonable people can disagree on that question. Audemars on the other hand seems to be unreasonably praising the condition of the car and disregarding legitimate and fact-based criticisms. He's now even come to the point of implying the criticisms are coming because people don't have as much money as he does.

My comment was indeed directed to audemars. Lowman, I understand your point. A little criticism goes a long way.

drew

 

[Klink]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)



Sorry to pile on, but I can't help myself:

This is only my personal opinion on a matter that is ultimately subjective, but for this asking price, the vehicle should be virtually showroom new perfect, and with a substantial bonus at that.
The bonus being that even every one of the "will happen" items are already repaired: updated upper and lower engine wiring harnesses and throttle-body, the collapsed motor mounts already replaced, etc. To repeat, it should be virtually indistinguishable from showroom new with all the known shortcomings the brand-new vehicle would have had being already addressed. This is not that car...

 

[Taxi Driver]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Sorry to pile on, but I can't help myself:

This is only my personal opinion on a matter that is ultimately subjective, but for this asking price, the vehicle should be virtually showroom new perfect, and with a substantial bonus at that.
The bonus being that even every one of the "will happen" items are already repaired: updated upper and lower engine wiring harnesses and throttle-body, the collapsed motor mounts already replaced, etc. To repeat, it should be virtually indistinguishable from showroom new with all the known shortcomings the brand-new vehicle would have had being already addressed. This is not that car...

To make a comment; I have not fully followed this particular car but generally, as we see the price tag going up on many
Classic or soon to be "collectors" cars, >what are they Worth< ? Ceartainly NOT the average of for ex. prices you see on
MOBILE.DE How many of them, if we Count into that the 124 036/034, the E60. 210 072 E50/E60 Brabus 6.0/6.5
will fetch nearly as much as what is asked?

How many of them are, merely good objects for renovation, and what are they Worth, remembering it is not cheap
to restore in a proper way any of theese. The highest prices may be Worth paying for a, pampered Japanese import
or some very rare to find low mileage, showroom cond. example. Not even the rare E60, Limited, Brabus, cars are
Worth the premium price tag, how much would be expected to bring a very good but used for 25yrs, car to that
standard and value.

Nowadays there are buyers with Money who can afford to pay top $£€ but they expect a "turn key" ready to go example.
People like me who perform the restoring work themselves can NOT pay fantasy sums and people with the Money it
takes to let some restoring shop to perform this, are more likely to buy the right car ready to use.

Even I myself would rather save up/sell a couple of cars to afford to buy a top condition car and insantly use it, instead
of dwelling into a restautration Project. So, where are the buyers and what will they accept to pay?

 

[gsxr]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

This is only my personal opinion on a matter that is ultimately subjective, but for this asking price, the vehicle should be virtually showroom new perfect, and with a substantial bonus at that. ... it should be virtually indistinguishable from showroom new with all the known shortcomings the brand-new vehicle would have had being already addressed. This is not that car...

I've been trying to stay out of the brawl here, but Klink summarized my thoughts very well.

This is a very, very nice low-mile car; and in many ways is nicer than most other 036's on the market. Unfortunately, the photos speak for themselves as to the issues present (specifically, the previous bodywork and paint jobs, which will be expensive to re-do; along with rust repair).

I think most people - myself included - take issue with the asking price given the 'hidden' issues, along with the presentation that does not mention the issues. The price+presentation+condition do not add up. If the price was substantially lower, I think there would be much less criticism and more "why hasn't this sold yet?" comments. Price tends to be a big driver of positive vs negative comments, IMO.

 

[AMG5PT4]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Reading Jono's PPI of this car is why he inspects any high $ MB I buy. The White/Grey E500 I bought and sold in 2015 and the White/Blue 560SEC AMG 6.0 last Summer were inspected by Jono. If anyone is interested in buying a collector quality E500E at an elevated price (north of $40k), do yourself a favor and have it inspected by a pro who knows these cars down to the bolts. I just can't imagine buying the subject car for $50k+ just because of the low mileage and dealer fluff only to find the unfortunate news posted above. The client who hired Jono is certainly happy he did!

 

[Jlaa]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Nowadays there are buyers with Money who can afford to pay top $£€ but they expect a "turn key" ready to go example.
People like me who perform the restoring work themselves can NOT pay fantasy sums and people with the Money it
takes to let some restoring shop to perform this, are more likely to buy the right car ready to use.

Even I myself would rather save up/sell a couple of cars to afford to buy a top condition car and insantly use it, instead
of dwelling into a restautration Project. So, where are the buyers and what will they accept to pay?

in the last 3 months, I am aware of two cars switching hands on this board - in both instances the cars were in excellent condition - way way less than 5K USD needed to immediately start enjoyment of the car. Both cars had some desirable items fitted (like European lights, wheels, etc.). Both cars had less than 65k miles but more than 50K miles. Both cars were also sold as a "pocket listings" .... meaning the car was not advertised as being for sale. Both cars sold in the mid to higher 30K USD range.

 

[maw1124]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

mate..
it was not intended to either your "statement" or anyone elses
..it was directed to "all" "negative" "comments" in general...as i felt it was just TO much bashing of the car....even though i DO agree that the price beeing abit steep..BUT ..to be honest..i really dont care about the "prices" on all these cars no more..cause it has gone all out of hand...but thats just the way it is these days

cheers

No worries. I didn't take offense. I can be a lot clearer though. This is not about price. The car is not "excellent" or "immaculate" at any price. It's certainly not the best available. And cutting the price in half wouldn't help. Make sense?

maw

 

[Jlaa]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

No worries. I didn't take offense. I can be a lot clearer though. This is not about price. The car is not "excellent" or "immaculate" at any price. It's certainly not the best available. And cutting the price in half wouldn't help. Make sense?

maw

Thank you for putting it so succinctly. This is about honesty and integrity of communication.

 

[audemars]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

To make a comment; I have not fully followed this particular car but generally, as we see the price tag going up on many
Classic or soon to be "collectors" cars, >what are they Worth< ? Ceartainly NOT the average of for ex. prices you see on
MOBILE.DE How many of them, if we Count into that the 124 036/034, the E60. 210 072 E50/E60 Brabus 6.0/6.5
will fetch nearly as much as what is asked?

How many of them are, merely good objects for renovation, and what are they Worth, remembering it is not cheap
to restore in a proper way any of theese. The highest prices may be Worth paying for a, pampered Japanese import
or some very rare to find low mileage, showroom cond. example. Not even the rare E60, Limited, Brabus, cars are
Worth the premium price tag, how much would be expected to bring a very good but used for 25yrs, car to that
standard and value.

Nowadays there are buyers with Money who can afford to pay top $£€ but they expect a "turn key" ready to go example.
People like me who perform the restoring work themselves can NOT pay fantasy sums and people with the Money it
takes to let some restoring shop to perform this, are more likely to buy the right car ready to use.

Even I myself would rather save up/sell a couple of cars to afford to buy a top condition car and insantly use it, instead
of dwelling into a restautration Project. So, where are the buyers and what will they accept to pay?

I completely agree with all these comments. Different buyers look for different things when buying rare cars. Some hire mechanics to get an opinion and others hire classic car appraisal companies to get a real value. I personally hire classic car appraisal companies and this one I saw was appraised near $50k.
I have seen plenty of cars change hands that have had an accident history (we have no real proof this one had) or have had repainted panels for high amounts of money because what a certain market segment wants, that can afford to buy, is low miles and rarity, which this one is.
It's interesting to read that Jono mentioned that a bumper had a small paint run, when my classic car appraisal company mentioned that older cars, specially Porsche, was notorious for having paint runs, which is a reflection that the paint is original and not the more perfect repaints of today.
Also mentioned was that the front had work done, when the paint meter shows the exact thickness of paint the car should have from the factory. No signs of a repaint or work done.
Mentioned also, is the fact that there is a rubber plug in the door frame reflecting body work. That is actually not a sign of bodywork. As we all can remember, the days before dent wizard being all over the place, the way door dings were fixed, was to access the panel and slowly pushing it out with a micro hammer.
Also that the door mechanism in the rear door frame shows signs of having been moved which supposedly is a sign of sheet metal work. That is not necessarily the case. I was fortunate enough to see throughout many years in the 70's and 80's the assembly line process of a major German car manufacturer and witnessed many times how they adjusted car panels at the end of the assembly line process, to make them fit. Believe me, it was not glamourous and it's not what some people imagine. How did I have access to view this? My father was the CEO for one of the top four German car companies.
So, again, in summary, we should not post opinions when the car has not been personally seen by everyone on this panel , and not knowing or remembering that the 500E was a hand made car that was not assembled the same way as all the other W124's.
We each have the choice to pay whatever we individually choose or can afford to pay, and I agree it's a choice each one makes directly with the dealer or broker. It's not our decision to decide what other people want to spend, when they can afford to.

 

[jhodg5ck]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

I completely agree with all these comments. Different buyers look for different things when buying rare cars. Some hire mechanics to get an opinion and others hire classic car appraisal companies to get a real value. I personally hire classic car appraisal companies and this one I saw was appraised near $50k.
I have seen plenty of cars change hands that have had an accident history (we have no real proof this one had) or have had repainted panels for high amounts of money because what a certain market segment wants, that can afford to buy, is low miles and rarity, which this one is.
It's interesting to read that Jono mentioned that a bumper had a small paint run, when my classic car appraisal company mentioned that older cars, specially Porsche, was notorious for having paint runs, which is a reflection that the paint is original and not the more perfect repaints of today.
Also mentioned was that the front had work done, when the paint meter shows the exact thickness of paint the car should have from the factory. No signs of a repaint or work done.
Mentioned also, is the fact that there is a rubber plug in the door frame reflecting body work. That is actually not a sign of bodywork. As we all can remember, the days before dent wizard being all over the place, the way door dings were fixed, was to access the panel and slowly pushing it out with a micro hammer.
Also that the door mechanism in the rear door frame shows signs of having been moved which supposedly is a sign of sheet metal work. That is not necessarily the case. I was fortunate enough to see throughout many years in the 70's and 80's the assembly line process of a major German car manufacturer and witnessed many times how they adjusted car panels at the end of the assembly line process, to make them fit. Believe me, it was not glamourous and it's not what some people imagine. How did I have access to view this? My father was the CEO for one of the top four German car companies.
So, again, in summary, we should not post opinions when the car has not been personally seen by everyone on this panel , and not knowing or remembering that the 500E was a hand made car that was not assembled the same way as all the other W124's.
We each have the choice to pay whatever we individually choose or can afford to pay, and I agree it's a choice each one makes directly with the dealer or broker. It's not our decision to decide what other people want to spend, when they can afford to.

You have not spent much time in the presence of these cars Sir, and if you have I would kindly suggest you pay closer attention to what's in front of you.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[ZombieBranz]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

I completely agree with all these comments. Different buyers look for different things when buying rare cars. Some hire mechanics to get an opinion and others hire classic car appraisal companies to get a real value. I personally hire classic car appraisal companies and this one I saw was appraised near $50k.
I have seen plenty of cars change hands that have had an accident history (we have no real proof this one had) or have had repainted panels for high amounts of money because what a certain market segment wants, that can afford to buy, is low miles and rarity, which this one is.
It's interesting to read that Jono mentioned that a bumper had a small paint run, when my classic car appraisal company mentioned that older cars, specially Porsche, was notorious for having paint runs, which is a reflection that the paint is original and not the more perfect repaints of today.
Also mentioned was that the front had work done, when the paint meter shows the exact thickness of paint the car should have from the factory. No signs of a repaint or work done.
Mentioned also, is the fact that there is a rubber plug in the door frame reflecting body work. That is actually not a sign of bodywork. As we all can remember, the days before dent wizard being all over the place, the way door dings were fixed, was to access the panel and slowly pushing it out with a micro hammer.
Also that the door mechanism in the rear door frame shows signs of having been moved which supposedly is a sign of sheet metal work. That is not necessarily the case. I was fortunate enough to see throughout many years in the 70's and 80's the assembly line process of a major German car manufacturer and witnessed many times how they adjusted car panels at the end of the assembly line process, to make them fit. Believe me, it was not glamourous and it's not what some people imagine. How did I have access to view this? My father was the CEO for one of the top four German car companies.
So, again, in summary, we should not post opinions when the car has not been personally seen by everyone on this panel , and not knowing or remembering that the 500E was a hand made car that was not assembled the same way as all the other W124's.
We each have the choice to pay whatever we individually choose or can afford to pay, and I agree it's a choice each one makes directly with the dealer or broker. It's not our decision to decide what other people want to spend, when they can afford to.

Honestly I find that there are so many inconsistencies and contradictions in your posts that I don't believe most of, if any, of what you say. Why don't you post this appraisal? If it's a 50k appraisal it would surely work to prove how right you are and how wrong everyone else is. Please post it. In an early on post you said that you saw the car in person and the paintwork was as if it had rolled off the assembly line. Then later and now you are downplaying the paint problems as having minimal effect on value....and all 8 of your posts to this forum have all been on this specific for sale ad. LOL. You're certainly free to keep posting your opinion I guess.

 

[gerryvz]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

This forum has many critics of the cars that come up for sale. Many of these critics come from a strong position of knowledge and/or experience.

At times, there has been criticism that has probably been a bit too harsh and unforgiving. At other times, the criticism has saved many potential buyers from a costly mistake, or at minimum a significant reduction in selling price, to the anger or chagrin of many sellers. This is the market speaking, folks.

While some sellers and their associates may not like this happening (and more than a couple have come on here or contacted me privately and expressed their displeasure), the bottom line is that if one puts their car up for sale, then it certainly should be fair game for people to look at it and comment on it.

At NO time have I seen people here giving commentary on a car for the wrong, or for inappropriate intentions.

The worst thing, which in my opinion really DOES put a seller up for appropriate and even harsh criticism here, is when they knowingly or deliberately misrepresent or lie about a car's condition, particularly when it's obvious they've done it, or they refute proof that we have about what they've done. I remember one car that I'd seen, in Portland, that I'd driven before it was sold and knew/remembered well, where the seller had replaced the odometer with one with approximately 100+K miles less, and INSISTED that he had done nothing wrong nor admitted replacing the odometer.

It was blantant fraud, and I publicly took the guy (who was an acquaintance) to task about it here on the forum.

If there's deliberate fraud or misrepresentation going on, then a seller is fair game for criticism and being called out for it.

Cheers,
Gerry


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gerryvz]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

in the last 3 months, I am aware of two cars switching hands on this board - in both instances the cars were in excellent condition - way way less than 5K USD needed to immediately start enjoyment of the car.

In nearly 15 years of "watching" these cars, I have yet to see a single car that has ever come up for sale that doesn't have the "GVZ $5K" worth of repairs that are needed. No matter what the price paid, mileage on the car or physical condition of the car.

I am no jhodg5ck, Klink or GSXR, but if you give me 30 minutes with any car, and I will find the GVZ $5K of repairs or deferred maintenance that it needs.

Note that the $5K consists of dealer or high-end indy shop labor prices, using MB factory parts for the repairs/maintenance, sold at MBUSA retail prices.

The first thing to look for is the easy $2K of engine and transmission mounts. If the car has more than 75-80K miles on it, and it's never been documented that the motor/transmission mounts have been changed, then it's GUARANTEED that these three parts need to be replaced. That's one job....40% of the $5K. Other low-hanging fruit to check are the upper and lower wiring harnesses (often the upper harness has been done).

Then you just start going down the list from there, starting with "chassis rubber" -- upper strut mounts, lower control arm bushings, subframe mounts, carrier bushings, rear arms/bushings, drag link, tie rods, sway-bar mounts, rubber fuel lines, vacuum connectors, top-of-engine air hoses, hood pad, hood leading-edge rubber, and so forth.


Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Maui]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Maybe there are examples of Mercedes with factory paint runs but I have never seen one. I've owned six W124's, one W123 and one W212 and even the lower priced ones did not have factory paint runs. I'm sure in the millions of W124's made there might have a been a few but I would find it hard believe an E500E would have made it out of the factory with paint runs. JMHO.

 

[maw1124]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

+1 to GVZs post #89

Last month I had engine and trans mounts done on my car, + lower harness. Those things together were about $2k. The guys also did caps and rotors because they noticed a slight miss (which I didn't even feel actually). And an engine fan shroud. "Some other stuff" and $4k later... oh well, it happens. The only way you get around this is to do what 600Eric did. And that's way more than $5k...

This on a 80k mile car that most would have said needed nothing the day before it went in for "a basic service."

maw

 

[audemars]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

This is not even my car and yet I'm defending it because I have looked at it so many times and I am in complete disagreement in people giving opinions on a car they have never personally seen. The perfect example is happening Right Here.
Several people have commented that the wiring harness has not been replaced. It was actually replaced with the OEM wiring harnesses summer of 2016 at a cost, if I remember correctly, $4,000.
People have also commented on suspension part replacements. I remember seeing a couple of receipts that a large part of front and rear suspension part components were replaced at a cost of $6,000 in either 2014 or 2015.
As to the appraisal report, I don't have it since it's not my car, but I'm sure if you have the economic backing to buy a car like this, the dealer will send you all the receipts.
Point in case, who ever buys it, will buy it, and obviously it will be someone that can afford it and is not looking for a dime a dozen high mile example. Each to his own and each one has the wallet that they have. Either way, it does not change my life.

 

[Melville]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

 

[500Eboard]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Bottom line: a car of this price strata ($50-60K) should NOT have one speck of rust on it, anywhere, inside or outside. It's obvious that this car has had a lot of work done on the rear, and the repair not done so well (although seemingly to a slightly better EXTERNAL cosmetic standard). This should significantly affect the value of the car in a downward sense.

I'd MUCH rather own an honest, completely unmolested and accident-free Western or Southern car with 150K miles on it than a repaired w/rust car, with questionable history and a shady seller, with 50K miles on it. Just sayin'

P.S. I think there are more people on this forum than you think with plenty of money. This type of implicit put-down (inferring that folks here don't have two nickels to rub together in their pocket) may make you feel good, but in my knowledge and experience is patently untrue. Just sayin'

 

[maw1124]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Right... in keeping with my tradition of highlighting the obvious (I should change my avatar to Captain Obvious)... most of us rely on other E500E Board members who HAVE seen the car, like jhodg5ck... with pictures and commentary... which is kind of the point of a board like this... so we don't all have to lay eyes personally on the car... I for one would rather have his eyes laid on it than mine, which is sort of the point of a PPI... or experts for that matter... but I think you take my point.

No need to beat a dead horse... but maybe (just maybe) the car is not entitled to your erstwhile defense of it? Maybe?

maw

PS. I can't figure out how on my iPad, but moderators please feel free to change my avatar to this guy...

 

[sprnova]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

This is not even my car and yet I'm defending it because I have looked at it so many times and I am in complete disagreement in people giving opinions on a car they have never personally seen. The perfect example is happening Right Here.
Several people have commented that the wiring harness has not been replaced. It was actually replaced with the OEM wiring harnesses summer of 2016 at a cost, if I remember correctly, $4,000.
People have also commented on suspension part replacements. I remember seeing a couple of receipts that a large part of front and rear suspension part components were replaced at a cost of $6,000 in either 2014 or 2015.
As to the appraisal report, I don't have it since it's not my car, but I'm sure if you have the economic backing to buy a car like this, the dealer will send you all the receipts.
Point in case, who ever buys it, will buy it, and obviously it will be someone that can afford it and is not looking for a dime a dozen high mile example. Each to his own and each one has the wallet that they have. Either way, it does not change my life.

THE guy - jhodg5ck - who lives and breathes these cars, has personally done an inspection of the car and has clearly called out the issues the car has. That in itself should cause one to completely change their previous opinion of the car. Based on what he has found, it's only a $60k car if someone is stupid enough to pay that much for it, no matter how many parts have been replaced on it at ANY cost! The rust issues immediately devalue the car far below the asking price. To me, something smells rotten here. Next thing you know, Kellyanne Conway is going to show up and provide "alternative facts" as to why the car is now worth more than $60k!

 

[audemars]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Yes I have which is the reason I know youre not a licensed classic car appraiser. You're a mechanic, which is ok, but you're not certified.

 

[jhodg5ck]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Yes I have which is the reason I know youre not a licensed classic car appraiser. You're a mechanic, which is ok, but you're not certified.

Yes, you are correct.
But guess who they call to ask questions and my thoughts on value?

500E's and pre merger AMG's of all manner are this particular Hodgmans area of expertise.


You think an appraiser of All things automotive knows these cars like I do?

Best laugh I've had all day




Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[ZombieBranz]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Yes I have which is the reason I know youre not a licensed classic car appraiser. You're a mechanic, which is ok, but you're not certified.

Ok my T02 troll alert alarm just went off in my kitchen.....high reading of concentrated troll.

 

[gerryvz]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Did someone just say the word "Troll"? Here? On my forum?

Thankfully it wasn't the T03 "unhinged troll" alert. That would mean drastic action is required, immediately!!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Klink]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

 

[ZombieBranz]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Did someone just say the word "Troll"? Here? On my forum?

Thankfully it wasn't the T03 "unhinged troll" alert. That would mean drastic action is required, immediately!!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nope...just the standard T02 alert at this outpost. Would recommend increase of the Trollcon rediness to level 4. And request Mathew Broderick put on standby. That is all.

 

[psportoveloce]

Re: FS: 1993 500E, Pearl Black / Black, 33kmi, $60k (Miami, FL)

Yes I have which is the reason I know youre not a licensed classic car appraiser. You're a mechanic, which is ok, but you're not certified.

My professional opinion as someone who brokers collector cars all the way from a 2CV to Miuras and Ferrari 250/275/330s is that a licensed appraiser is completely hit/miss and I generally prefer to have a competent and experienced marque expert assess a car for me. I've had situations where I've had an appraiser adjust an appraisal by 10% after I've provided them with comps that they should have been able to find and reference. Or tell me that a 190 Cosworth's plaid interior was non-original AND incorrect because they had only ever seen US market leather-trimmed cars.

Not all certified appraisers are ignorant, but if I had to choose between one and an experienced marque expert, I would choose the latter with very few exceptions. Appraisers necessarily have to value a wide variety of cars, but someone with deep domain expertise will have more specific knowledge about a particular marque/model.