1994 E500 Transmission Problem - HELP

[DanSz_PL]

Hello 500Eboard.

My Name is Daniel and im new to this community. im hoping everyone here is as helpful as the 190rev folks i have dealt with over the past couple of years... Here is the problem...

My father owns a 94 E500 with about 110k Miles on it. The car runs strong and the only problem we are having with it is the transmission. So far none of our mechanics know how to fix the issue or set up the tranny to work correctly.

From what my father tells me, the tranny shifts very jerky and it doesn't hold the power. its shifts early and sometimes with a long delay. Does anyone on here know someone who knows these transmissions very well and is willing to help further discuss the matter? I dont drive the car so i dont know all the details but im trying to help my father have his dream car run as best as possible and the transmission is the only thing he constantly complains about. If someone on here can help, i can find out all the details on the problem.

Thank you very much for taking the time in going over and helping with our problem. We love our e500 and want it to perform like one to a 100% and this is our last resort.

 

[emerydc8]

Hi Daniel,

I can only speak for myself, but a few years back my 94 E420 (also a 722.3xx transmission) started acting up like you described in your post. After changing the fluid and filter, it totally disappeared and never returned. I don't know if there was just dirt in the valve body or maybe the fluid was just contaminated or old.

Usually, the Achilles heel of this transmission is the reverse clutches wearing out prematurely. Unless someone raced or abused the car, the forward gears usually last a long time. (I've exceeded 200,000 miles on two of my cars with the original transmissions.)

I also added a bottle of Lucas stop slip when I changed the oil. I know some guys here are not big fans of additives. In my case, though, I'm not sure if it was the fluid change or the Lucas additive that fixed the problem, so I need to disclose that to you.

I'm sure the more transmission-savvy members will be able to provide more input. Welcome to the forum.

 

[DanSz_PL]

Hello Jon,

Thank you for the fast reply. I'm sure all of the regular maintenance was done to the transmission, otherwise my father wouldn't be so worried about the problem. He mentioned something about some settings that are possible to adjust the transmission to work correctly which i don't know anything about. Does anyone know what he had in mind?

 

[gerryvz]

This forum and community is far better than 190Revolution ... but I'm a bit biased on that.

Indeed, the best thing to do would be to do a complete transmission fluid and filter change, and use Dexron III spec fluid. You don't have to go expensive, the main thing is to get new fluid and filter in there to see if that solves anything. That means a COMPLETE fluid change, including draining the torque converter. It's 7.9-8.0 quarts, so a LOT of fluid is in that transmission and TC.

That will baseline it, at least fluid-wise. I think you need to drive the car, or at least talk in depth with your dad about the exact symptoms. What is happening, and when is it happening? On all shifts? When the transmission is warm (or cold) only? Up hills? At high and low speeds? At certain shift points (2-3, 3-4, Reverse)?

There are PLENTY of experts here on the board who know these transmissions, but I think we just need more detailed information to go on, otherwise we're just guessing, and that's a very roundabout way to solve anything.

There are two types of external adjustments that can be made, in terms of the shift points, and the firmness of the shift. However, these should not be considered as solutions to what sounds like a more fundamental operational problem. These two adjustments can make a normally functioning transmission BETTER and SMOOTHER, but by and of themselves cannot FIX a problem. Does that make sense?

I had some shift problems last year (reluctant to upshift) and it turned out that I just needed a fluid and filter change.

There are a lot of transmission resources on this site as well, if you are inclined to maintain or repair your own transmission. Count on about $2,500 to have a knowledgeable independent shop rebuild a transmission, at least here in the US.

By the way, where are you located?

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[DanSz_PL]

Hello Gerry,

Ounce again, thank you for a warm welcome and the reply.
I just had a brief conversation with my father about this and he assured me that all the proper maintenance was recently done. He also mentioned a few more details about whats happening when he drives the car. He said that when he drives normal meaning not in any way aggressive, the transmission shifts up one gear after another and keeps dropping down the rpm to very low where the car has little power, no jerking at this point. Another problem is that from 2-3 3-4 when diving aggressive, right when the transmission is suppose to up-shift , it holds it for a few seconds and when it kicks in there is a little jerk.
So far he said the downshifts are ok but sometimes with a downshift there is a loud knock in the back, not sure but probably coming from the differential.

My father knows there might be another problem but hes also sure that someone previously has messed with the external adjustments and the transmission is miss-adjusted so before he goes in and has someone open up the tranny, he needs someone with experience that can adjust the settings correctly so the timing on each shift is correct.

That being said, is there anyone on here that can point me in the right direction to find someone that would be able to help with the adjustments and maybe figure out what the other problem is? We wouldn't want just any transmission shop to do the job.
I know most users on here are more to the west and we are on the east coast specifically New Jersey but maybe there is someone who can help not to far from my location.

 

[gerryvz]

If you go up to the "Owner Map" link at the top of the page, you will see that there are plenty of folks in the New England/NY/NJ area who can help you. Specifically, I'd connect with member "Jimbo" who is based in Manchester, Connecticut (just east of Hartford). He is very well connected around New England and NY/NJ with resources and shops who could potentially help. There are also folks here in the Philly area who can potentially help. Jimbo is a long-term owner though, and fairly legendary in worldwide E500E circles, so an obvious candidate to assist.

If the transmission has [properly] received new fluid and filter within the last 10,000 miles (hoping it's the correct spec fluid ... perhaps your dad can check on that with maintenance records so that it's not Dexron IV spec or fluid for modern transmissions), then it's probably safe to assume that it is OK. a careful process of adjustment is probably in order, to see if the issues can be minimized or adjusted out. That requires someone who is familiar with these 722.3 transmissions to do. A very very very small adjustment at the modulator can have a BIG BIG BIG effect, so it has to be done in very small iterations/increments.

Another thing to double-check is that the vacuum line from the intake manifold to the transmission modulator is intact. If this line is broken or otherwise not providing vacuum, then shifts will be quite harsh and the car will slam into gear, no matter how it is "adjusted." This can be checked visually from underneath the car, with the bottom encapsulation panel removed. The transmission runs down behind the engine next to the firewall, to the driver's side of the transmission. It attaches to the modulator with a rubber connector.

Some questions:

• Who did the maintenance work on the car? MB dealer? Knowledgeable independent MB shop? Jiffy Lube? This matters quite a bit.
• Did the transmission problems start BEFORE or AFTER the adjustments were messed with? Meaning were the adjustments a response to a pre-existing problem? Did the adjustments made change it (i.e. make it better or worse)?
• How many miles/long time-wise has the car been driven with this shifting condition?
• Can your dad detail the most recent maintenance to the transmission? What was done per the service invoice?
• Is there any way you or your dad can drive the car, and have a passenger in back film the instrument cluster (and capture the noise) so that we can see what is happening? Perhaps narrate during the video as to what they are experiencing? Then post that video for the experts here to view?

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[gsxr]

"Recently" does not provide time nor mileage. Can you get an exact date or mileage when the trans fluid and filter was last replaced? Was it DIY or done at a reliable MB indy shop? Does the receipt show the exact brand/model of the fluid used, and how many quarts? Some places may only drain the pan and not the converter, or they could have used the wrong fluid, etc etc. First thing is a baseline fluid+filter change, done correctly, as Gerry described above. I assume you have checked fluid level (HOT!) and verified it's clean and red, not brown or burned.

Gerry is correct, there are not "adjustments" to fix problems like this. The vacuum modulator on the driver side will adjust shift firmness, the Bowden cable adjustment will slightly change part-throttle shift RPM's. Sounds to me either debris in the valve body or sticking VB pistons, or simply the trans is on its way out and in need of a rebuild. 500E transmissions are not known for going much past 100-150kmi and you are right in that range. This is especially true if the fluid+filter was not changed every 30k (or more frequently).

That said: The rapid-upshift with low RPM's is related to the Bowden cable, but it's highly unlikely this is an adjustment problem... but I would check if the Bowden cable is attached properly (at rear of the airbox) and does not seem to be broken. You can disconnect the ball socket and pull on the cable by hand, it should have spring tension and pull back in after you tug it out by hand.

The "hang" at full-throttle upshift sounds like a flaring upshift. This MAY be due to a defective pressure switch on the front/left side of the transmission. Check trouble codes, there will be an error code for the EZL (pin 17) if this is the case. The switch is an easy replacement. If there is no error code, the switch is fine. In that case, it's back to fluid/filter, or maybe tweaking the vac modulator a bit (also check the vac line from intake manifold to modulator).

 

[KarlC]

Welcome aboard !

You are not alone, I can't tell you how many times I have read the below cases on this forum.......


- Member - HELP my Transition not shifting right and I don't know what to do ???

- Expert Advice - 1st thing you should do is make sure the transmission has PROPERLY received new filter and correct Dexron III spec fluid change including draining the torque converter it would be 7.9-8.0 quarts.

- Member - OK I had this done, WOW what a change the transmission shifts as new, you guys just saved me $3,000 on a rebuild transmission. Thanks, this is truly the best and most knowledgeable forum I have even been too.



If you do a search you will read many of these same stories, there is so much good info on this site.

Enjoy researching and reading and feel free to ask anything you like.

Good to have you here !

 

[gerryvz]

I can't tell you how many times I have read the below cases on this forum.......



- New Member - HELP my Transition not shifting right and I don't know what to do ???

And not necessarily just with the new members, as evidenced by my own "Reluctant to Upshift" thread that I referenced above. DW SD and others had some good things to point out, and ultimately were 100% correct.

But note to DanSz_PL: trust us, you are hearing unanimously here from folks that a proper fluid/filter change (with the CORRECT) fluid at a minimum is required to baseline things, and more than 50% of times cures all ills with these transmissions.

Honestly, there are only two general buckets of issues that I see: transmission fluid/filter being old/bad, and the dreaded "clicking reverse" syndrome. Very few folks here monkey with the transmission pressure and modulator settings. They are not nearly as precise and good as a modern electronically controlled transmission, but they don't suffer from the complexity and are near bulletproof, too. Mechanical failures are very rare, the only exception as GSXR mentioned if something got introduced that is hindering or blocking the valve body.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[KarlC]

Honestly, .... They are ..... near bulletproof, too.
Cheers,
Gerry

Glen has over 500,000 mile on his original transmission, shows what they can do if cared for right.

 

[gerryvz]

Glen has over 500,000 mile on his original transmission, shows what they can do if cared for right.

Yep, I've got 216K on my 560SEC and 202K on the E320 wagon, both with near identical transmissions to the 500E/E500. Neither has given me a whit of problem, and I've owned the SEC for 11.5 years and the E320 wagon for 7.5 years !!

 

[clarkz71]

Glen has over 500,000 mile on his original transmission, shows what they can do if cared for right.

I know another technician at the last dealer I worked at with a 92 400E.

400K miles, original trans, 722.354

 

[gsxr]

Glen has over 500,000 mile on his original transmission, shows what they can do if cared for right.

Yes - it is possible, most likely due to the fluid+filter being properly replaced on schedule... even better if synthetic ATF was used for most of the life of the tranny. People will change oil frequently, but soooo many of the same people are shocked when informed that the transmission fluid needs similar treatment. I bet many times it's only changed after the car goes into a shop for shifting problems.

BTW - does Glen/DrP have documentation/records that positively confirm the trans was never rebuilt? A very simple test is to look at the torque converter. If it's painted, it's almost guaranteed the trans was rebuilt/replaced. Original converters are unpainted, rebuild trannies almost always include a "rebuilt" converter which is painted. An unpainted converter doesn't necessarily mean the trans has never been rebuilt. Also check the serial number vs EPC datacard, if it doesn't match, it's been replaced. Again, matching numbers don't prove lack of rebuild, but it's another puzzle piece...

 

[Glen]

Yes - it is possible, most likely due to the fluid+filter being properly replaced on schedule... even better if synthetic ATF was used for most of the life of the tranny. People will change oil frequently, but soooo many of the same people are shocked when informed that the transmission fluid needs similar treatment. I bet many times it's only changed after the car goes into a shop for shifting problems.

BTW - does Glen/DrP have documentation/records that positively confirm the trans was never rebuilt? A very simple test is to look at the torque converter. If it's painted, it's almost guaranteed the trans was rebuilt/replaced. Original converters are unpainted, rebuild trannies almost always include a "rebuilt" converter which is painted. An unpainted converter doesn't necessarily mean the trans has never been rebuilt. Also check the serial number vs EPC datacard, if it doesn't match, it's been replaced. Again, matching numbers don't prove lack of rebuild, but it's another puzzle piece...

I'll check the converter and report back but as far as I know, the transmission was not rebuilt during DrP's ownership which started at around ~70K miles and I have not had it rebuilt (yet). Forward gears are all pretty good, a little firm because I think a previous tech probably increased modulator pressure to compensate for the slow reverse engagement.

 

[gerryvz]

People will change oil frequently, but soooo many of the same people are shocked when informed that the transmission fluid needs similar treatment. I bet many times it's only changed after the car goes into a shop for shifting problems.

Yes, I am one of these who is anal about motor oil but has neglected changing tranny juice. I learned my lesson and all of my cars' fluid has been changed since mid-2013. In the future I won't go more than 30K on fluid, and will probably go synthetic from here on out.

With regard to the Dr.P car (now the Glenmobile), if the vast majority of the miles were highway miles, and transmission juice and filter were regularly changed, I could see it going 500K+.

 

[Bogeyman]

I know, stupid question here, but is there synthetic Dex III available?

Thanks.

 

[gerryvz]

RedLine D4 is marketed as a suitable replacement for Dex II, III, and III-I ATFs. It's a full synthetic, and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it exceeds any and all Dex III specs. Just so you know, when our cars were new, Dex II was the spec'd ATF, so it's nice to see the Dex II on the RedLine spec sheet.

RedLine's Hi-Temp ATF is also marketed as a Dex II and Dex III replacement.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[gsxr]

Ditto what Gerry said above. Although I'm not a big fan of Mobil (duel to their marketing shenanigins, which is a different subject), the Mobil-1 ATF is also a synthetic Dexron-III compatible and acceptable for use in the 722.3 tranny. Amsoil ATF is synthetic Dex-III as well. I dislike Amsoil's pyramid marketing but their higher-end products are good stuff.