A few ATF change questions

[Kyiv]

I'm changing ATF for the first time by myself on My 1993 400E.

I'm currently at 139,000 miles. Transmission was rebuild in spring of 2018 with about 108,000 mi on the odometer and opened up again to repair thunking/jerking again in February of 2020 with about 118,000.

I assume current ATF fill has 21,000 miles/16 months on it, but the filter - unless the same shop that rebuild it first time, changed it while taking care of the warranty issue - is back from 1st rebuild, when the car had 108,000 mi on the clock.

The ATF I just drained is of the right color and smell, but I see some metallic dust on the built-in pan magnet and on top of the filter. Not a lot, but it's there. Again, I assume that the shop did not change the filter out wiped transmission pan clean when they took care of the warranty issue 9 months/about 10k mi after the first rebuild, but perhaps it did....

Anyways, is this a normal or abnormal amount of metal dust to see?



Another question, the filter put in by the shop during rebuild has no markings on it. It has two slots on either side and something inserted through them. The MB filter that I will put it has only one slot and nothing in it. What is that thing?

No brand filter:


MB filter with only one slot



There's also an extra mounting holl on a no brand filter vs MB

 

[liviu165]

1. Judging by the looks in your pictures, that brown powder (I think) is the friction material that (eventually) comes off of the clutch disks. Of course, the MB friction material on the disks lasts a bit longer than other brands. That's why the cost of a rebuilt transmission with only Mercedes parts costs more than one with questionable parts, the warranty is also proportional.

Here is an example of friction material coming off the (reverse) clutch disks, on a 722.3 transmission with only 90k miles.


In your particular case, that amount does not look alarming to me, especially after a break-in period. What is extremely important is to determine if indeed that powder/dust is metal or not. A magnet will tell you. If it turns out to be metal, then you may have an issue. However, I am almost sure that you will notice that is not metal.

2. I've never seen a filter like that, with two inlets, but that does not mean is bad. What bothers me a bit is that you could not find the manufacturer's stamp on it, that makes me think that it may be a cheap one (Chinese?), and the next thought that goes thru my mind is if you have other questionable parts in that rebuilt transmission. From your pictures it looks like the outlets on that "mystery filter" match the ones of the MB original filter. The extra hole does not count in your case.

The MB filter you have looks to be the correct one, so go for it. One thing I would recommend is to use a torque wrench to tighten the screws holding the filter.

 

[liviu165]

Anyways, is this a normal or abnormal amount of metal dust to se

Just curious, how did you determine that what you saw is metal dust?

 

[Kyiv]

@liviu165, thank you! I checked and the "stuff" on filter housing is not magnetic. It's not exactly dust either. Kinda very fine but coarse material. There isn't a lot of it. On the other hand, the 2 magnets in the pan are not factory and were placed there by somebody, at some point. They had some fine metal dust on it. Also not a lot.

I've no doubt that transmission shop used enough generic parts for the rebuild not too be considered kosher, but, it's what it is at this point. The warranty on the job is 36 month/150k miles though.

Do you happen to know what these things are? I pulled them from the no brand filter... There's something sliding inside the filter now... Do I need to transfer one of them (MB filter has only one side slot, vs no brand filter's two)??

2 "things" and slots on no brand filter from which I pulled them:

 

[Kyiv]

Just curious, how did you determine that what you saw is metal dust?

There are 2 magnet pieces in the ATF pan. I thought they were factory, but they aren't. Five dust on these magnets was obviously metal. But the kinda brownish stuff on the filter's body is not magnetic

Magnetic:


This "stuff" is not magnetic:

 

[liviu165]

[Do you happen to know what these things are? I pulled them from the no brand filter... There's something sliding inside the filter now... Do I need to transfer one of them (MB filter has only one side slot, vs no brand filter's two)??

No, I've never seen anything like those two parts. The MB filter dose not have that, the Elring does not have it either. Maybe those are in connection with what's sliding inside the filter now, after you took those off (I see those two parts have some "extensions").

Regardless, use the MB filter as it came. Do not add anything to it, do not remove anything from it. Inside it should have only the media filter, no any other funny parts. If anybody else has another opinion, please advise.

 

[Kyiv]

I found the filter (based on the extra mounting holl). It's some "Bapmic" brand

Amazon.com: Bapmic 1292770195 Automatic Transmission Oil Filter for Mercedes-Benz W124 W140 W129 300CE 300SE 500E : Automotive

Buy Bapmic 1292770195 Automatic Transmission Oil Filter for Mercedes-Benz W124 W140 W129 300CE 300SE 500E: Oil Filters - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

 

[luckymike]

I read somewhere about people using the filter from an R129 or something because it was better for cornering?

I'm wondering if those two pieces are some kind of mechanism to block one side or the other during spirited driving so the trans won't suck up any air while the fluid is being forced to one side of the pan?

 

[liviu165]

I found the filter (based on the extra mounting holl). It's some "Bapmic" brand

You can never go wrong with the MB filter, even if it has only one inlet.

 

[liviu165]

I read somewhere about people using the filter from an R129 or something because it was better for cornering?

I'm wondering if those two pieces are some kind of mechanism to block one side or the other during spirited driving so the trans won't suck up any air while the fluid is being forced to one side of the pan?

The inlet of the MB filter is facing forward (below). The two inlets of the other filter are facing forward and backwards. Since in both cases the inlet(s) is/are on the longitudinal axis, I don't think one would offer an advantage over the other one when cornering, but I could be wrong.

I am wondering if that filter would not be made with off-roading in mind, where unusual tilting angles are very common. At any rate, for his car I would say the MB filter is the right way to go.

 

[Stegel]

I read somewhere about people using the filter from an R129 or something because it was better for cornering?

I'm wondering if those two pieces are some kind of mechanism to block one side or the other during spirited driving so the trans won't suck up any air while the fluid is being forced to one side of the pan?

Indeed that’s the case, the sliding parts serve as baffles which prevent sucking air. IIRC the filter with baffles has a 129 part number. I think I’ve even seen it recommended on this site to use the 129 filter.

 

[nocfn]

This is correct - the R129 filter is more performance rated for that reason. The p/n exists in a few transmission threads here.

EDIT E500E transmission filter 1292770195

 

[gerryvz]

That is just friction material, as said. Nothing to worry about and totally normal. The 722.3 didn't come with a magnet of any kind in the pan from the factory. However, you can add a factory magnet to it if you want to. They are cheap, and I detailed the process, location it should be put at, and the part number in my Top-End Refresh from last year. It is also documented in several other threads on the forum. The transmission magnet part number is 220 271 00 98.

The filter for the 500E/E500 was shared with the R129, and is a 129 part number. It has two slots with a sliding black plastic item that covers one slot or the other when cornering. Pedestrian (non-E500E) V-8 W124 models did not use this filter, and instead just used the regular 722.3 filter, which I believe has a 126 part number. The pedestrian filters only have one slot and no sliding bar in between them.

The E500E-R129 filter can be purchased from either MB, or on the aftermarket much more cheaply as a quality Elring filter. This is what I am currently using on my E500. However, I used a pedestrian one-slot filter on my E500 for approximately 6-7 years with zero problem - it is totally compatible and will work fine ... and as said all non-E500E cars use it anyway !!

If you use an aftermarket pedestrian filter, instead of MB, a Mann filter is just fine, or other quality name. I have used Mann transmission filters in all of my non-E500 cars for many years. My G-wagen's variant of the transmission filter is specific to the deeper / higher fluid capacity transmission oilpan of the G-wagen, but otherwise is identical to the pedestrian 722.3 transmission oil filter. Unfortunately it's only available from MB....





Pedestrian transmission oil filter as came out of my E500:

Elring R129/E500E transmission oil filter that went into my E500:



Variant of 722.3 transmission oil filter designed to fit deeper G-wagen transmission oilpan:

 

[Kyiv]

It has two slots with a sliding black plastic item that covers one slot or the other when cornering.

So that's what these are! @gerryvz, thanks for a thorough explanation.

 

[TerryA]

I read somewhere about people using the filter from an R129 or something because it was better for cornering?

I'm wondering if those two pieces are some kind of mechanism to block one side or the other during spirited driving so the trans won't suck up any air while the fluid is being forced to one side of the pan?

@luckymike, Mike, I have the 129 filter in my car. My trans guy said that it is designed with some kind of slide mechanism to compensate for abrupt acceleration or hard turns and doesn’t allow the filter to suck air.

I will use the same part on the next fluid change.
Unfortunately, my trans guy “Ted Reich-Transmeister” retired and closed his business.

 

[gsxr]

To pile on... @kiev, the swarf in your photos is totally normal. Maybe less than normal. NOTHING to worry about here.

There is often a small amount of magnetic material stuck to any magnet added inside the pan, this is also normal.

The R129/.036 filter with sliding mechanism is to keep fluid at the filter inlets during hard acceleration and braking (longitudinal G-forces). It's not related to cornering, as the slider only moves forward/back relative to the vehicle direction. You don't need the fancy filter for a street-driven car but it doesn't hurt either. The aftermarket Elring is more affordable than OE.

 

[liviu165]

The R129/.036 filter with sliding mechanism is to keep fluid at the filter inlets during hard acceleration and braking (longitudinal G-forces). It's not related to cornering, as the slider only moves forward/back relative to the vehicle direction.

Just what I assumed when I looked at the location of the inlets when the filter is installed. Well described!

You don't need the fancy filter for a street-driven car but it doesn't hurt either.

I second that entirely.

 

[Kyiv]

So, after transmission drained for 8 or so hours and a torque converter drained for almost 24. I got out just about 2 gallons. Maybe a little less... Put in 2 gallons of D4 in the morning and went for a 30 minute aggressive freeway drive (several WOTs, hitting 120+ mph, etc). Ambient temperature 89F, humid. Upon return, this is what my dipstick read:



Maybe my transmission was higher than 180 after 30 mins of aggressive driving... Maybe not... Is this considered an overfill? I will measure again tomorrow, but I'll have to drive 55 miles in the morning (at brisk (sometimes very) speeds, on a freeway). Can/should I, or drain a little ATF first? Thanks

 

[TerryA]

So, after transmission drained for 8 or so hours and a torque converter drained for almost 24. I got out just about 2 gallons. Maybe a little less... Put in 2 gallons of D4 in the morning and went for a 30 minute aggressive freeway drive (several WOTs, hitting 120+ mph, etc). Ambient temperature 89F, humid. Upon return, this is what my dipstick read:

View attachment 133792

Maybe my transmission was higher than 180 after 30 mins of aggressive driving... Maybe not... Is this considered an overfill? I will measure again tomorrow, but I'll have to drive 55 miles in the morning (at brisk (sometimes very) speeds, on a freeway). Can/should I, or drain a little ATF first? Thanks

@kiev, How did you measure the fluid level? Your supposed to warm up the engine and trans to normal temps. Park the car and run the shifter thru the gears. Then put it in neutral and while the car is idling check the dipstick level. You should be in the zone. I’d say between F and 180.

If it’s still high take a little out unless you want your fluid to boil out of the dipstick. It makes a mess if it boils over. Maybe a short trip would be OK but if it gets up to temp it might boil out.

Just my $0.02

 

[Kyiv]

@kiev, How did you measure the fluid level? Your supposed to warm up the engine and trans to normal temps. Park the car and run the shifter thru the gears. Then put it in neutral and while the car is idling check the dipstick level. You should be in the zone. I’d say between F and 180.

If it’s still high take a little out unless you want your fluid to boil out of the dipstick. It makes a mess if it boils over. Maybe a short trip would be OK but if it gets up to temp it might boil out.

Just my $0.02

I drove for 30 minutes on the freeway. Aggressively. Returned home, parked in the driveway, engine running, transmission in P. Level surface. I did not run though gears though. Only when I was filling new ATF in, before test drive

 

[gerryvz]

You need to let the car idle in the driveway for about 5 minutes (hot transmission) before you check it. This lets the fluid settle down.

I would say judging by the photo that you have a very slight overfill, but probably not enough to make a difference one way or the other. I would check it again after another freeway drive and see if you get the same result. If you do, then I would drain perhaps a couple or three cups of fluid (perhaps 1/3 of a quart) and then check it again with a hot transmission.

Ideally, you want to have it right on the "8" or the "0" in the 180 inscription.

 

[gsxr]

Check again with trans hot (20-30 mins freeway driving is fine, no need for Speed Racer Mode), and with the car on a level surface, idling in Park etc etc... see if there is any change.

However, even if it looks the same (2-3mm above 'max'), I'd leave it as-is. Unlike engine oil, you don't want ATF in the middle of the dipstick range, you want it at MAX. If you must remove some to sleep at night, drain 8oz and repeat the level test.

FWIW, when I change fluid & filter and let the trans drip overnight, I typically need to add 8.5 quarts. If you only put in 8.0, I'd be really surprised if you consistently get readings above MAX.

 

[Kyiv]

I checked the ATF level twice today after each drive lasting an hour+. It has settled to exactly "full" mark, designated by a triangle above 180, or so it seems. Damn hard to measure that level accurately.

In any event, transmission is shifting beautifully and NO leaks overnight and after 7 hours of sitting in the garage today during the day. I torqued each pan bolt to 7 NM in criss-cross pattern repeatedly until bolts stopped turning - about 3 times per bolt, until they no longer budged at 7 Nm

 

[gerryvz]

Sounds like everything is right where it needs to be. Nice !!