AMG and RENNtech swaybar reproductions

[gerryvz]

Yes, in the 500E/E500 forum, not that silly W126/C126 subterranean forum.

Forum -- 500E / E500 -- Mechanical Brakes, Suspension and Steering -- AMG and RENNtech swaybar reproductions

 

[500AMM]

Yes, in the 500E/E500 forum, not that silly W126/C126 subterranean forum.

Forum -- 500E / E500 -- Mechanical Brakes, Suspension and Steering -- AMG and RENNtech swaybar reproductions

I wonder how a clone of you two muppets (Jelmer™) would be?? OMG!!

 

[gsxr]

Me, Jelmer, and Herr Unhinged Troll Honcho Gerry all together in the same room would look something like this:

 

[jhodg5ck]

I put another bar in a 126 last night... time to place fresh order w/ Feind...!!

btw, that's really Weird on that rear bar..it was ordered years ago, but most Def was supposed to be a 500 bar....Hrrmmmm...

 

[gsxr]

Brandon, don't forget, the 500E bar also has a flat spot in a precise location & angle, for the SLS bracket. This would probably be the most difficult part to duplicate on the aftermarket bars.

From the photo, that rear bar is either 400E or 500E, based on the shape. All the non-V8 cars have straight rear bars. I'm guessing 13mm was a typo. It's either 16mm (400E) or 18mm (500E). There is a 13mm bar used on some 6-cyl cars, my 124.128 had this, it flexed like wet spaghetti! The part number is embossed into the bar, if you look carefully you will be able to find that to verify what bar it is.

http://www.w124performance.com/images/W124_sway_bars/

 

[KarlC]

Brandon, don't forget, the 500E bar also has a flat spot in a precise location & angle, for the SLS bracket. This would probably be the most difficult part to duplicate on the aftermarket bars.

Dave do you have a photo of this he car see ?

 

[gsxr]

Dave do you have a photo of this he car see ?

Not yet.

 

[samiam44]

Did renntech do a larger rear bar to match the 32 mm front bar.

That's the pair I'd like. Renntech products were good, not cheap.

 

[gsxr]

Did renntech do a larger rear bar to match the 32 mm front bar.

That's the pair I'd like. Renntech products were good, not cheap.

No. AFAIK, no tuner (RENNtech, AMG, Brabus, Lorinser, etc) ever produced a rear bar larger than 18mm for the 500E, but there was some custom stuff in Japan.

 

[samiam44]

As a rule of thumb. Does a larger rear bar increase or decrease overstreer
ched?

 

[gsxr]

Larger rear bar will increase oversteer / reduce understeer, assuming no other changes.

 

[Jackasic]

note to self, when measuring sway bars in a dark shop, be sure to re-zero you caliper.


Lets start with a 32mm front bar and see how folks like it. Being that we live in 'Merica, it will probably be 1 1/4" bar.

 

[gsxr]

Front bar should be pretty easy. With 32mm middle and 22mm ends, people can use OE bushings if desired, same as RENNtech supplies.

 

[samiam44]

Do ppl need more oversteer- though that's what the hp and torque of the V8 was for=p)

 

[szvook]

Me, Jelmer, and Herr Unhinged Troll Honcho Gerry all together in the same room would look something like this:

Is Jelmer represented by Curly?

 

[gerryvz]

I put another bar in a 126 last night... time to place fresh order w/ Feind...!!

btw, that's really Weird on that rear bar..it was ordered years ago, but most Def was supposed to be a 500 bar....Hrrmmmm...

Yep...Jono gets it....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Roma_500E]

Yep...Jono gets it....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Was there any difference in AMG and non AMG sway bars on C126 ? If so what are they ? I want go under C126 and measure sway bars ...

 

[gerryvz]

Soundz to me like you need to sell your 036 and buy a 126 coupe. They are the shizz-nizzle.

 

[Jackasic]

just finished up a week at SEMA. Met with my sway bar/spring manufacture and he is going to cranking on it next week. Also have two firms looking at the bushings.

Shipping out of the country can work, if nothing else we can do some sort or package deal to a country in the EU that the USPS will ship to. Sent out a rear 126 bar to Norway a week ago, no problems.

 

[500AMM]

.
Since this has become a collective swaybar thread, I like to post a couple of pics of a Brabus swaybar, just to add up. I got the pics from Bernard in Germany early 2011. The pics shows the shape of the bar and the thickest section, 30mm (+ coating).

-a-

 

[gsxr]

Looks to me like Brabus bought the AMG E60 bar and stuck their name on it (and, likely re-sold it with a hefty markup). The dimensions appear identical.

 

[500AMM]

just finished up a week at SEMA. Met with my sway bar/spring manufacture and he is going to cranking on it next week. Also have two firms looking at the bushings.

Shipping out of the country can work, if nothing else we can do some sort or package deal to a country in the EU that the USPS will ship to. Sent out a rear 126 bar to Norway a week ago, no problems.

That was good news, Brandon!

SEMA sounds nice, I guess I should go there once. A group of piston heads from my city take the trip every year now.

Do you recall the shipping cost for that rear 126-swaybar to Norway?

-a-

 

[500AMM]

Looks to me like Brabus bought the AMG E60 bar and stuck their name on it (and, likely re-sold it with a hefty markup). The dimensions appear identical.

Yes, that strikes me too. Or it can even be the same producer for both of them - who knows...
...and Brabus do know their price level.

BTW, I was offered that swaybar for 600 Euro incl. bushings.

 

[Jackasic]

so what was the stock rear size on a 500e? I am guessing the stock combo is 28mm front and 18mm rear?

If so how is the balance? Does it push, is there oversteer? If we are going to jack up the front size, we'll probably need to make a balanced, upsized rear bar to go with it.

 

[gerryvz]

so what was the stock rear size on a 500e? I am guessing the stock combo is 28mm front and 18mm rear?
If so how is the balance? Does it push, is there oversteer? If we are going to jack up the front size, we'll probably need to make a balanced, upsized rear bar to go with it.

That is correct:

• Front: 28mm
• Rear: 18 mm

I will be happy to be the Feind guinea pig for any uprated E500E bars, as well.

 

[Glen]

In general, these cars understeer. With staggered wheels, even more so. I think a 29 or 30mm front bar and 20 or 21mm rear bar would make a nice stage 1 upgrade. 32mm/24mm would be stage 2.

 

[Jackasic]

Sounds like I need to crunch some number to see what works. The 126s run a 24mm/14mm combo from the factory that cause it to push, we upgraded to 19mm rear to balance it out, which was a 222% increase in stiffness over the factory bar.

probably do something like this.

Stage I: 21mm rear bar only
Stage II: 32mm front and 25mm rear

 

[jhodg5ck]

hmm...track rat need bar...!!

 

[gasers]

Hi.

So does any of u find a manufactor?

 

[Jackasic]

yep, in the works.

I have sent of stock bushing to two manufactures of poly, so I find the fasted person to turn them around. Should have the first samples in a few weeks for the bars. Doing two rear sizes and one front.

 

[Jackasic]

got my quote back from the bar manufacturer, still working on bushings. Also have an engineer working on a beefed up/redesigned sway bar bushing bracket.

Stage 1: 21mm (13/16"), rear bar only - $230 (includes new poly bushings)

Stage 2: 32mm (1 1/4") front - $275 (includes new poly bushings)
25mm (1") rear - $245 (includes new poly bushings)

need to get a feel for the interest so I know how many to order. We are still working on springs, should know something in a month.

 

[Glen]

I'm in for a stage 1, 21mm rear bar.

 

[gerryvz]

Jack-man .... I'm in as well....you would have figured that out though ;-)

 

[Dbreid]

In for a set of stage 2. PM me payment details whenever ready. Would definitely also want the bracket if you are doing it.

[Edit] I want to KEEP SLS, so put me down for whatever will work with the factory SLS.

 

[Maui]

Put me down for a stage 1.

 

[J-Sauce]

Have our concerns about the rear sls bracket been addressed in consideration for building the rear bars? Or will modifications need to be made on our vehicles?

 

[gerryvz]

Jack-man got me a revised bracket for the 560SEC rear bar for the SLS, but with the 124/M104 top-end job I haven't installed it yet.... I'm sure if there are issues he'll be all over it again. My car will probably be the guinea pig LOL. Just let me know when you need me up in Bryan, Brandon. Maybe we can get texas993 to come down too....

 

[Rouven036]

I'm in too. Don't know which version yet.

Compared to the original set up, how much more planted is the car to be expected with the full set?

Regards

 

[gasers]

Im in for stage 2, and springs when you get it.....

Thanks!

 

[nbvcxw8000]

I live in France (I'm French), and I'm interested in sway bars of 32 mm at the front and 21 mm at the rear. 25 mm for the rear appears very big!

Thanks!

 

[modzona]

Im interested in at least one stage 2 set. Maybe two and a stage 1.

 

[gsxr]

Any chance of getting a kit installed on an 036 for some real-world testing? Even better if it was on Jono's track rat, with real track testing.

I have a feeling that interest/sales will increase after we have some reports of successful installation & handling improvements.

That said, I am tentatively interested in a 21mm rear bar, if Justin's concern is rectified. I plan on keeping SLS on my cars. We need a larger U-bolt at a minimum, with bracket modifications, if not a custom bracket (where the U-bolt attaches). Obviously not an issue for non-SLS cars.

Dumb question - is the rear bar identical in shape to OE, with the "hump" to clear the V8 subframe?

 

[500AMM]

I live in France (I'm French), and I'm interested in sway bars of 32 mm at the front and 21 mm at the rear. 25 mm for the rear appears very big!

Thanks!

I do agree on that statement. To see the theoretical increase in rigidity you can compare the polar section modulus for a solid shaft:
T[SUB]max[/SUB] = (π / 16) D[SUP]3
[/SUP]
28 to 30mm = 4308 to 5299 = + 23,0%
28 to 32mm = 4308 to 6431 = + 49,5%
18 to 21mm = 1145 to 1817 = + 58,6%
18 to 25mm = 1145 to 3066 = + 167,8%

A beefier rear swaybar is expected to counteract the understeer, so by keeping the stock 28mm front swaybar and increase to 21mm rear swaybar, it would hopefully eliminate the understeer more or less.

When installing the 32mm front swaybar, that will to my understanding require an additional increase of the rear swaybar. But up to 25mm is a big step IMO. If stiffer lowering springs is installed along with staggered wheel set-up, I am not sure about that. I would like to see some tests on this.

-a-

 

[Jackasic]

I am probably going to order a batch of the 21mm rear bars to start (30 or so), about a 5 week lead time on those. To answer you questions:

• new rear bar will be identical to stock in shape, just larger diameter
• new front bars will be same shape as stock, but the necked down section will be shorter.
• SLS bracket will bolt up to the 21mm bars, possibly not the 25mm (we can look in to a custom bracket). I had custom U bolts made to adapted the 126 SLS to the upgraded bars, will do that hear also.
• not sure any one running the stage two will want to keep SLS, thoughts?
• testing will be after the fact, but we'll post some up. Sway bars are a pretty well sorted technology and their gains can be calculated. I am not worried about folks seeing gains, it is pretty much a given.
• my goal, will all my products, is that is is a direct bolt in, so no crazy mods needed. this will be something you can install with simple hand tools.
• we will ship across the pond, might look to bundle them to save shipping.

 

[gsxr]

Brandon, the U-bolt from the W210 E55 might work (designed for 20mm bar)... worth checking into, before messing with custom U-bolts.

For the rear bars on the W124 sedans, it might be a good idea to upgrade to the metal end links, as the added stress might be a bit much for the stock plastic links. (???) The metal links (from the wagons) require modification to fit sedan LCA's. If you could modify new ones, and offer the modified metal links as an accessory, that might be something folks are interested in as well. The metal links are available aftermarket from Lemforder.

 

[nbvcxw8000]

... The metal links (from the wagons) require modification to fit sedan LCA's. If you could modify new ones, and offer the modified metal links as an accessory, that might be something folks are interested in as well. The metal links are available aftermarket from Lemforder.

Very good idea!

 

[gsxr]

I think one of the considerations is if the car is under-bar'd from the factory. In the case of the C126 (which I installed the Feind larger rear bar on) it was. It's probably a good debate for the .036. I'm going to forge ahead with the 036 bars, and will probably end up being the guinea because of my proximity to the Jack-Man. Will do another HOW-TO when we install.

Beware though -- these bars will likely use stiffer urethane bushings. I get a bit of squeak from my C126 rear because of the urethane.

FYI on the urethane bushings. You don't have to use them if you don't want to. The OE Mercedes 30mm bushing with Teflon fabric liner will fit the 32mm front bar, and is squeak-free. RENNtech supplies the OE bushings with their 32mm bar (along with the usual 22mm OE end bushings). The factory 20mm rear bushings should work on the custom 21mm rear bar. Personally, I would use the factory stuff to keep the noise level to zero. The factory bushings are so stiff, they might as well be poly (IMHO).

 

[jhodg5ck]

I'll take 3 sets of the stage II..

One for the track rat, other for my tech's E420/5.0 and the other for Some lucky fellow/124 owner coming through the shop..!


Dave's idea on the 210 ubolt might be a good one unless MB is Silly proud of it ($$).

Track rat is becoming Lemons racer FWIW...Off to get a full cage in the next couple of weeks..!

jono

 

[500AMM]

I am in for a Stage 1 rear swaybar, 21mm.

Thanks
-a-

 

[elbeik]

I'd be interested in stage 1 - rear - as well, if it can make it to these necks of the wood