Castrol Edge 10w60 motor oil

[brams]

My car is due an oil change this month, it's done about 12,000km on Mobil 1 (IIRC 0w40), and though everything has been fine, I want to try something thicker, ambient temp here today was 42 degrees C at 5pm. At idle when the engine is hot (100 - 110 deg C) I get about 0.5 bar pressure, I know MB say anything more than 0.3 bar is OK but I'd like to try a 60 weight oil to see if I can get 1 bar at which I would be happy.

I'm considering the BMW M oil Castrol Edge 10w60 or Shell Helix 10w60 as used by Ferrari, other than 0w40 Mobil 1 there is nothing else on the market in Qatar other than Elf which I don't fancy at all.

I can't see or imagine any problems, I'll be using some of the GM engine build additive (ZDDP) with the oil as well which I did last time.

Oil pressure is fine 3 bar at idle until the engine has got hot, it's better at about 1.5 bar when the cold season hits (12-15 degree ambient)

I'd welcome feedback why I should or should not do this.

Cheers
brams

 

[gsxr]

The oils you have available across the pond are very different than what we have in the USA. That said, anything 0W- is too thin, IMO... even in the cooler temps we have in the USA. In general I'd stick with a Group IV/V synthetic somewhere between 5W-40 and 20W-50. The 10W-60 may be fine if it's a Group IV/V base stock.

In general, I'd skip any additive, and find an oil which already has adequate amounts of ZDDP/phosphorus. If you end up using an oil that is low on ZDDP, yeah, I'd add some.

I use Mobil-1 5W-40 which still has 1100-1200ppm ZDDP.

 

[Glen]

Before changing oils, have you verified that all your oil tubes are intact? In any case, I don't think you will do harm using any of those oils, however, I really don't think it's necessary. As long as you see 3 bar by 1800 RPM, you're fine.

Oh, another choice, if available in your area, is Lubro Moly Synthoil 10W-60, it's a German synthetic and very good in extreme temperatures.

 

[195910]

At idle when the engine is hot (100 - 110 deg C) I get about 0.5 bar pressure,

Oil pressure is fine 3 bar at idle until the engine has got hot, it's better at about 1.5 bar when the cold season hits (12-15 degree ambient)

This oil pressure is too low even with 0W40. I used to get 1 bar minimum in summer with the M1 0W40. I now run 15W50 (I had 5w50 Special SLR formula last year, But extremely hard to find).
Now I get 1.25 minimum at 52C !

should be around 2 bar in winter.

 

[gerryvz]

I'm running the black-label Mobil 1 0W-40 right now and will go back to Mobil 1 5W-40 (Turbo Diesel Truck oil on the bottle) next oil change.

I run my synthetic for only 5,000 miles, dino (20W-50 on all my other cars) for 2,000 miles. I am considering, now that I live in the much warmer climes of Texas, to change my grade a bit, but 20W-50 seems pretty good for just about any climate. I'd feel fine with 10W-40 as well, frankly.

People freak out & obsess WAAAAAY too much about the "right" oil. As long as it's name brand & compliant with industry standards, and an appropriate grade for the climate & car -- whether dyno or synthetic, it's fine. Particularly given the amount that most owners drive their cars, because for most owners they tend to be NOT daily drivers and thus driven that hard.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[gsxr]

People freak out & obsess WAAAAAY too much about the "right" oil. As long as it's name brand & compliant with industry standards, and an appropriate grade for the climate & car -- whether dyno or synthetic, it's fine.

Very true. My main concerns are:

1) Don't choose thin oils on purpose. These oils exist primarily for government-mandated fuel economy standards, NOT for top-notch protection under extreme operating conditions. On Mercedes diesel engines, I know some people who tried Mobil-1 0W-40 (which is on MB's "approved" list) when it first came out a number of years ago. They experienced hydraulic lifter noise, and increase wear metals in the oil analysis. Switching back to Mobil-1 5W-40 or 15W-50 cured both problems. Mercedes "recommends" this crap because it can squeak out another few percent of fuel economy, while sacrificing protection and engine longevity.
My opinion: Avoid super thin viscosity oils.

2) The drain interval should match the oil type. Dino oil or Group III synthetics (which are cheaper "fake" synthetics, made by hydrocracking dino oils) should both be changed more frequently... 3000 miles is probably fine for normal service conditions, Gerry's 2k interval is also fine. But neither of these should be used for extended drains, since they both start shearing down... I'd say 4-5k is about the limit. For true Group IV/V synthetics, you can go much longer before the oil viscosity begins to shear... easily 5-10kmi, often more under light service conditions (i.e., lots of freeway miles).
My opinion: Change dino or Group III "synthetics" by about 3kmi, 5kmi max. Changing a Group IV/V synthetic oil sooner than 5k is wasting money (hey, why not change it every 500 miles?), but if you want to go past about 7.5kmi, get a spectral oil analysis to determine the appropriate extended drain interval.


FWIW: I normally use M-1 5W-40 in all my cars, gas & diesel. The cars which are driven more frequently (more miles) are changed every 10kmi. The E500 doesn't see as many miles, so it gets changed every 3-5kmi, which is every 1-2 years. I get Mobil Accutrack oil analysis at every oil change so I can monitor wear metals, TBN, presence of things like coolant, and soot % on the diesels.

 

[szvook]

I?ve been thinking of trying Mobile 1 5W-40 over Mobile 1 synthetic 0W-40 I'm running now, but for the life of me still have not found reasons that mandate the switch to 5W-40 in SoCal weather. Gerry, have you noticed any differences going to 0W-40 after using 5W-40?

 

[szvook]

On Mercedes diesel engines, I know some people who tried Mobil-1 0W-40 (which is on MB's "approved" list) when it first came out a number of years ago. They experienced hydraulic lifter noise, and increase wear metals in the oil analysis. Switching back to Mobil-1 5W-40 or 15W-50 cured both problems. Mercedes "recommends" this crap because it can squeak out another few percent of fuel economy, while sacrificing protection and engine longevity.
My opinion: Avoid super thin viscosity oils.

Dave, so it sounds like the diesel engines are prone to this issue with W0-40 grade, but is the W5-40 grade that much better then W0-40 for our cars? Without starting any oil wars, I just want the best fully synthetic oil without being too ?thin? and it seems for SoCal weather (or in general) the fully synthetic W0-40 grade seems just right with the 229.5 specs. Also, I'm not sure where I read this, but is it true that heavier oil grades in the M119 engine create lifter ticks in the oil tubes, or is that only on plastic tubes found in later then 1992 cars?

 

[gsxr]

Dave, so it sounds like the diesel engines are prone to this issue with W0-40 grade, but is the W5-40 grade that much better then W0-40 for our cars?

You have to look past the numbers. While most of various weights in the Mobil-1 line are similar to each other, the 5W-40 was different... it was essentially Delvac-1 in a different bottle. D-1 is Mobil's heavy-duty synthetic diesel oil, designed for million-mile longevity in big rigs, etc. It used a totally different base stock than the rest of the M-1 product line. It was possibly one of the best oils on the market for years. Things change, though... M-1 5W-40 is no longer identical to D-1 (btw, D-1 is only available in a single viscosity, 5W-40). I think it may still be similar, or at least have the same base stock. I suspect that Mobil has been "cheapening" the rest of the M-1 lineup over the past few years (first Tri-Syn, now SuperSyn, etc). But the 5W-40 variant at least resisted this longer than the others, if not avoided it entirely - can't say for sure, since Mobil won't fess up to any details. The most recent version of M-1 5W-40 is now labeled "SuperSyn", which I don't like. Fortunately I stocked up before the old stuff was gone, and I have a several-year supply in the garage. I may have to switch to Red Line when my existing supply runs out, probably 5W-40 or 10W-40.

Without starting any oil wars, I just want the best fully synthetic oil without being too ?thin? and it seems for SoCal weather (or in general) the fully synthetic W0-40 grade seems just right with the 229.5 specs.

See the attached scan of the 1994 "recommended products" list. Note that 0W-40 is not listed. The 5W-40 is shown as acceptable for cold climates (sub-freezing), which applies to where I live. In a warmer climate (SoCal), I'd probably stick with 10W-40. Again, that's just my opinion!

Also, I'm not sure where I read this, but is it true that heavier oil grades in the M119 engine create lifter ticks in the oil tubes, or is that only on plastic tubes found in later then 1992 cars?

I've never heard of heavier oil viscosity causing lifter problems / noise, only thinner. The problem with the plastic oil tubes is that they break, causing a loss of oil flow to certain lifters. This normally results in a constant "ticking" lifter, not intermittant. If there's an intermittant tick, it's probably a failing lifter. Sometimes the ticking lifter will quiet down if you switch to full-synthetic oil, if the car had previously been fed dino oil for a long time - it's worth a try, and has worked on many, many MB diesels (which have almost the same basic lifter design as the M119). FWIW, my E420 has an intermittant ticking lifter, and 5W-40 synthetic didn't cure it. The same noise exists with 15W-40 dino. It's not bad enough for me to hassle with pulling the cams to find the offender & replace it (many hours of labor - not fun).

 

[szvook]

Thank you, Dave. Some food for thought for sure and my mechanic also swears by the 0W-40 grade for SoCal weather for the M119 engine. Btw, the oil guide in my manual does not list either 0W-40 grade or the 5W-40 grade as does the 1994 guide you provided, maybe the newer oil grades were listed in later cars. The irony is, from the Mobile site, they recommend 0W-40 grade for E500E's and/or for the majority of high performance, high heat engines.

I can see when Mercedes is recommending the oil grades for better fuel mileage and not fully knowing what is really better based on the type of engine, but can the recommendations from the oil companies be taken more seriously or more importantly the correct recommendation?

Here?s an interesting tidbit from a Mercedes customer using Mobil 1 0W-40 in a 2001 Mercedes E320 with 120,000 miles asking Mobile about switching to a 5W-40 grade and their reply was ?You can use either product for this application, but since you do not have a diesel particulate filter on any of these vehicles, we would recommend you use Mobil 1 0W-40.?

If the diesel filter is needed for the W5-40 grade, would that be a necessity for the M119 engine?

 

[TerryA]

Brams,

Are you sorry you asked yet?

Anyway, I have until my last oil change always ran 20-50 Valvoline extended life. On my last change a little over a year ago I switched to Mobil 1 15-50. Over the year I have put just 2,000 miles on it and have had no problems. My car just turned 112,000 miles. No lifter noise. I am down about 1/4 of a quart with 2,000 miles on it.

It seems a little silly but I plan on changing it soon just because of the time setting in the engine. It used to be recommended to change oil every 3,000 mile or 6 months whichever comes first.

I plan on sticking with the Mobil 1 15-50 I think it is just right here in Southern California. Today it is about 100 degrees F but I am not driving it at the moment but I do drive it in this hot weather.

If you could find the Mobil 1 15-50 maybe you should give it a try.

Now you have plenty of choices so you have to make a decision.

Good Luck

 

[szvook]

Wouldn?t the 50 and 60 viscosity oil rob the horsepower a bit?

 

[195910]

Wouldn?t the 50 and 60 viscosity oil rob the horsepower a bit?

I don't think it does, at least on V8s.

MB uses Mobil 1 5-w50 for the SLR.

 

[gsxr]

Wouldn?t the 50 and 60 viscosity oil rob the horsepower a bit?

It may, but we're talking single digit power losses, probably low single digits, and mostly when the oil is below operating temp. And that is probably when you are comparing very thin to very thick oils. Personally, I prefer to sacrifice a few ponies in exchange for protection & longevity...

Terry, btw, it sounds like you're right on the money!

 

[TerryA]

It works for me.

 

[szvook]

Interesting info - http://www.performanceoilnews.com/oils_ ... oils.shtml

 

[gsxr]

Interesting article, Steve. Note that the "reference" dino oil made 256hp peak, while the synthetics made 260-270hp peak. So synthetics alone added 2-4% peak power... not too shabby, and a good excuse to use synthetic over dino oil. Also interesting was that the difference between thin & thick oils varied quite a bit based on the specific brand/type, but the difference was single digits, as I suspected it would be.

Note that the oils were all lumped into a single "synthetic" label, so you can't tell if a Group III hydrocracked dino oil performed any differently than an oil with a true Group IV/V synthetic base stock. This alone could account for some of the performance variation between oils, but most mfr's will go to great lengths to avoid letting anyone know what their base stock is... Group III is much cheaper to manufacture, and they can still get away with calling it "synthetic" even though it technically isn't. It's getting harder to find the Group IV/V stuff these days.

Also of interest, for those who didn't know, is that Amsoil buys their base stocks from Mobil, and then adds their own proprietary additive package. Both are good oils. Too bad they didn't test a Red Line oil, I would have liked to see the results.

 

[Alpina]

I bought a 20 L can for my cars,, of Shall ultra-racing

10-60

both engines are suposed to use this oil

when a car have a high performance output engine .. we will often see the high later number.. and that stands for excellent lubrication under high stress and high heat,,

on my S38B38 engine (( E34 M5 3.8 IL6 24v semi-race oem BMW )) oiltemp can go to 120?c when driving on the Nordschleife,,

on my Biturbo,, and cruising on Autobahn ,, and then occasionally VERY high-speed sprints 300 km + the oiltemp.. is flying up the scale ,,
neverless have the oiltemp on my BT been higher than 110?C ,, and that is a turbocharged engine


to thin oil is not good in a high heat area,,

when using a top quality oil ,, the oil also clean the engine from inside ,, so if a carowner is looking at his oil stick,, and the stick is always like a brandnew oil
he is using a crappy oil,, and no .. the engine is not so clean inside,,

 

[brams]

Before changing oils, have you verified that all your oil tubes are intact? In any case, I don't think you will do harm using any of those oils, however, I really don't think it's necessary. As long as you see 3 bar by 1800 RPM, you're fine.

Oh, another choice, if available in your area, is Lubro Moly Synthoil 10W-60, it's a German synthetic and very good in extreme temperatures.

Glen,

Thanks for the reply, oil tubes are fine. Lubro Moly, thats made by Liqui Moly according to Google, there is a gas station here that sell there products, I'm gonna check this one out!!

Cheers!

 

[clarkz71]

This it what I use. Made in Germany.

Rated SM but also CF. you know how far back that spec goes for diesels. Very high in ZDDP.

World Pac sells it in quarts, around $5.35 or so.

Factory approived by Mercedes, Porsche, BMW and VW

 

[brams]

This it what I use. Made in Germany.

Rated SM but also CF. you know how far back that spec goes for diesels. Very high in ZDDP.

World Pac sells it in quarts, around $5.35 or so.

Factory approived by Mercedes, Porsche, BMW and VW

Looks like a good oil, trouble is its 40 same as the M1 I'm draining out. I've made an enquiry with Liqui Moly for their 10w60 if that fails I'll be paying for the Castrol TWS 10w60 that our BMW parts dept have at work, it's quite expensive (about 25 bucks a liter) though so I've made an enquiry with one of the engineers I know at Castrol in Dubai and asked him how long it should last.

Cheers!

 

[maw1124]

I'm running Mobil 1 15W-50, which was a shock to me, given that I've never even heard of this weight before. I get it, though -- FL car, very hot, very wet. I wonder if thicker oils propel moisture better. I'm guessing so. I guess I'm like Gerry -- I don't get my underwear in a bunch over oil. I'll just swap it out if it's that big a problem. I'm not risking a "priceless" engine over motor oil. Porsche's not going to re-build this engine, nor is Mr. DeLuca at AMG going to rebuild the DBLNCKL. True, money is an object, but I'll save it elsewhere. This is a 5k mile a year (mostly highway) car for me, max. So if I swap annually it's probably fine.